Let us disable VAR in FM19!

[bassistuk]

I like this addition in fM19 but after a while the novelty will wear thin...

Please let us disable/enable at will ! That would keep everyone happy!

[Stevicus]

Not really a novelty is it? It's going to be in football like it or not and soon enough it'll just be another part of the game, like the offside rule, goal line technology etc etc 

It's not just another mad 'what if' whimsical addition like Brexit where we don't know what's going to happen so arguably shouldn't be in the game 

[Neil Brock]

It's only active in the relevant leagues where it's currently in place now and can be turned on or off via the editor.

As Stevicus has said above, it's just part of the game. 

[GerdMuller]

..that went fast from the first  "NEW FEATURES REVEALED" to..."yeah but you can turn it off via the editor" :-D Ok, if the ref runs fast it maybe can stay in after all, but understand its not really a feature i would buy the game for :-D

[Neil Brock]

3 minutes ago, GerdMuller said:

..that went fast from the first  "NEW FEATURES REVEALED" to..."yeah but you can turn it off via the editor" :-D Ok, if the ref runs fast it maybe can stay in after all, but understand its not really a feature i would buy the game for :-D

Personally having seen it live I think it's great, but where possible we try to allow the user the option of choice. 

[GerdMuller]

Which is fine and great , being able to edit things is always a plus, and tbh it could be even totally fine to have in the game ..personally i have seen enough refs running to the cam in real life already.  I think to see it as GREAT is a little over the top though, and having it advertised prominently was a little too much. Thousands of other things i would have deamed a Great addition before that i guess. Option of choice is the way to go though i guess as i see it being potentially annoying.

[Federico]

Asking to disable VAR because is potentially annoying is like asking to disable own goals or disallowed goals for offside, maybe even more annoying, but part of real football as much as now VAR is.

Keep it up with it SI, and thanks for the promising nice overhaul to trainings, tactics and VAR too

[bassistuk]

1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

It's only active in the relevant leagues where it's currently in place now and can be turned on or off via the editor.

As Stevicus has said above, it's just part of the game. 

fair point! although i hardly ever use the editor only to add lower league clubs and custom teams

[Guest]

Being able to disable the animation & cut to the decision is an option I hope is available in the graphics settings, the pre-match walk out is part of football irl but can be disabled so I see no difference.

[westy8chimp]

Should be a skip button just like for pre match handshakes. Also an option in preferences to disable the animation (not the occurance) would be good. 

[russell9]

3 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

It's only active in the relevant leagues where it's currently in place now and can be turned on or off via the editor.

As Stevicus has said above, it's just part of the game. 

What about FM Touch? Is it possible to disable?

[Svenc]

Let's not. I'm so looking forward for all the rage when the final is lost due to a few "dubious" VAR calls in a row -- which should have some probability of actually happening, given how many finals are contested on FM accross its playerbase.

Additionally, implementing the VAR is the biggest paradoxon ever since John Connor sent back Kyle Reese, his father-to-be, back in time to protect his mother. A computer code that has been coded to simulate the randomness at football in the first place implements an altogether new section that tries to keep that randomness in check some (even though, ineviatlby, that code "knows" when calls are wrong). You better don't think too much about it or your head may explode. 

Edited September 28, 2018 by Svenc

[trickz]

Just make it skippable .

[DirtyJoe]

Agree with the opening post - just another useless widget, that needs to be switch off.

[phnompenhandy]

8 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

It's only active in the relevant leagues where it's currently in place now and can be turned on or off via the editor.

As Stevicus has said above, it's just part of the game. 

I guess in terms of playability this needs to be in the IN-GAME editor so that it can be turned off when tedium sets in rather than have to abandon a career save.

[herne79]

Personally I think what'll be more interesting is the in game frequency of VAR occurring.  So long as the frequency is kept to real life levels it won't be any more intrusive than going to a real match (which is what SI's aim in all areas of the game is after all).  And it's only in the countries and leagues that actually use VAR now.

Whether we like VAR or not, it's part of the laws of the football and I'm actually a little disappointed that SI have given us the ability to turn it off in the editor.

[Carninho]

will the game need to create dubious decisions so that VAR can be used.

from my point of view the match engine should get things right first time anyway as its AI and not a human ref obvs. so I don't really see the point.

its not going to stop me enjoying FM19 though

 

[iolodavanki]

In previous FMs, the calls made by refs on disallowing goals were always correct, i e an offside was never wrongly called. Has this changed?

IRL there are ambiguous calls all the time, even with VAR. It would be nice if this was in the FM19.

[russell9]

1 hour ago, herne79 said:

Personally I think what'll be more interesting is the in game frequency of VAR occurring.  So long as the frequency is kept to real life levels it won't be any more intrusive than going to a real match (which is what SI's aim in all areas of the game is after all).  And it's only in the countries and leagues that actually use VAR now.

Whether we like VAR or not, it's part of the laws of the football and I'm actually a little disappointed that SI have given us the ability to turn it off in the editor.

Why disappointed? Someone disable VAR in his own game doesn't affect you at all.

[akm.91]

Stadiums still look horrendous and recycled year after year but they waste time on a pointless VAR system that is already boring to look at from the gameplay footage they released. Include a tick box option on the career start up for anyone that doesn’t wish to use it. Making people go to the editor and change the rules of each individual league is ridiculous. 

[grade]

11 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

It's only active in the relevant leagues where it's currently in place now and can be turned on or off via the editor.

As Stevicus has said above, it's just part of the game. 

That is nice option. But... I deduce that VAR will be in FMT. So... How would a player of FMT could disable the VAR?

[Neil Brock]

52 minutes ago, akm.91 said:

Stadiums still look horrendous and recycled year after year but they waste time on a pointless VAR system that is already boring to look at from the gameplay footage they released. Include a tick box option on the career start up for anyone that doesn’t wish to use it. Making people go to the editor and change the rules of each individual league is ridiculous. 

It's not like a manager in Serie A can say to the Italian FA - "You know what, I don't like VAR, turn it off".  

[GreenTriangle]

We are managers. I think. What is doing a manager during the time when a referee runs and watches ?  Is he looking at this referee ? Of course not. That time is used to talk with his assistant and his players, to make some suggestions based on the refferee's possible decision. Could be a corner ? Use "this" scheme. Could be a penalty  ?  Use shouts to encourage or to increase  goalkeeper's concentration.  I hope all this time can be filled with some useful decisions.

[grade]

11 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

It's not like a manager in Serie A can say to the Italian FA - "You know what, I don't like VAR, turn it off".  

But understand, we are talking about a computer/Tablet/smartphone game. Sure realism is essencial. But the point I question (I don't like using people like me, because I'm not sure if others agree with me), what level of fun adds to game? Aside of making the matches last longer. From the video It adds 25 seconds to the match key highlights (if they are part of the key highlights and at this match speed) and this is the case if the VAR is used once. There are matches in real life they use it 3 or more times. We have to endure always 25 seconds for this animation every time referee goes watch the VAR? That adds a lot of time for the match.

Also do we see the VAR as well or is simply what we saw in video?

 

 

Edited September 28, 2018 by grade

[themadsheep2001]

VAR should 100% be in the game, maybe speed up the animation. But if its a mandatory rule, it should exist as much as offsides should.

[Svenc]

This will inevitably lead to some glorious additional rage moments.. I base this on a pet theory of mine. The reason why there is oft so much disgrumentlment over the VAR (in particular in the Bundesliga, anyway), is that subconciously it brings something to the forefront that football fans (and media) rather try to forget. In particular in a low scoring sports such as football, much relies on chance. If you look at some of the more recent finishing tables in the BL, by the end of the season there can be no more than 12 points between the Europa League and the relegation play-offs. In other words, basically three (usually tightly wins, plus a couple additionally draws -- or a couple additional VAR calls going your team's way :P).

The entire thought of this makes a mockery out of standard "industry practices" such as the rampant switchings of managers too -- realistically, there is no way in hell you're going to determine whether somebody was up to it or not over the course of a single season or anything thereabouts. Then again, football has never been a serious business.

 

tldr: hopefully this will lead to some glorious moments also in FM.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Svenc

[grade]

5 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

VAR should 100% be in the game, maybe speed up the animation. But if its a mandatory rule, it should exist as much as offsides should.

But adding something, just because?

I do seriously questioning, what does this adds to the game? Realism, sure, that is no brainer. Fun to the game, doubt it (my opinion, I don't take other people opinion into account), if the VAR is simply what we saw in that video.

And I'm a a great supported of the VAR in real life, since I saw the first Rugby Wold Cup, a around 10 years ago.

Edited September 28, 2018 by grade

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, grade said:

But adding something, just because?

I do seriously questioning, what does this adds to the game? Realism, sure, that is no brainer. Fun to the game, doubt it (my opinion, I don't take other people opinion into account), if the VAR is simply what we saw in that video.

Because its now a law of football. it's quite literally as simple as that.

VAR is as mandatory in Serie A, for example, as the offside rule.

[HUNT3R]

1 hour ago, iolodavanki said:

In previous FMs, the calls made by refs on disallowing goals were always correct, i e an offside was never wrongly called. Has this changed?

IRL there are ambiguous calls all the time, even with VAR. It would be nice if this was in the FM19.

Referees made errors in previous FMs.

[Candy Cadet]

3 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

VAR should 100% be in the game, maybe speed up the animation. But if its a mandatory rule, it should exist as much as offsides should.

If you can't turn VAR off, at least have the option of turning the animation off. Do we really need to see the ref running to the sideline and look at an imaginary screen?

I know VAR is the way the game is going but I'm yet to see an implementation in RL that actually works and for sure it will add to the frustration like when you get game after game of dodgy referees.

[grade]

4 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Because its now a law of football. it's quite literally as simple as that.

VAR is as mandatory in Serie A, for example, as the offside rule.

So we need to watch the VAR 25 second animation (at that match speed, shared in the video), every time there is an offside playing Series A? Take is going to make the matches in game last even longer. That is my issue with the VAR animation.

Edited September 28, 2018 by grade

[VP.]

Yesterday I had a goal ruled out for offside which I'm certain was on, this actually made me wish VAR had been in use and I'm now unable to play FM18 because of it ffs 

[MrPompey]

58 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

It's not like a manager in Serie A can say to the Italian FA - "You know what, I don't like VAR, turn it off".  

I dont think the objection to having a decision clarified by VAR is the issue he is mentioning, I think its the impact to the FM gamer in terms of delay whilst it happens, maybe the animation / ref needs speeding up. I think this suspense is quite good personally. No doubt it matches real life usage in leagues / competitions as current so its minor disruptions if you ask me anyway

As I mentioned in the VAR thread 2 issues I see already in the VAR demo:

1. The ref is positioned wrong, the linesman covers the side where the ref is, he should actually be positioned on the other side of the pitch and would in fact have had a clear view

2. The ref running to the VAR screen. There is a pathing issues and it looks daft that he doesn't take the direct route and is constantly re adjusting his path. I suspect this may be caused by the technical areas with the ref being "blocked" to run through them and he tries to line up to run between them...thats what it looks like

[Carninho]

Just now, SortitoutsiVP said:

Yesterday I had a goal ruled out for offside which I'm certain was on, this actually made me wish VAR had been in use and I'm now unable to play FM18 because of it ffs 

yes but was it just a ME animation to show a close chance? The ME could have picked out a chance that hit the bar instead.

The ME isn't real so I have doubts about what VAR brings except a few extra animations. 

But at the end of the day I think I just need to see it working in FM19 to really make my mind up  

[Federico]

My issue with VAR is that it seems to me a lot of people here doesn't have a clue on how it works in real life, nonetheless they feel to complain about its introduction.

[MrPompey]

6 minutes ago, SortitoutsiVP said:

Yesterday I had a goal ruled out for offside which I'm certain was on, this actually made me wish VAR had been in use and I'm now unable to play FM18 because of it ffs 

That doesn't make sense. Thats like football teams saying they cant play matches where VAR is not being used for fear of goals not being given

Of course as we saw during the world cup what is visible to everyone seems to sometimes get missed by the VAR team e.g. even the VAR team make mistakes. Where interpretation is a factor then there will always be opposing views

[MrPompey]

Just now, Federico said:

My issue with VAR is that it seems to me a lot of people here doesn't have a clue on how it works in real life, nonetheless they feel to complain about its introduction.

Thats possible. I think like all the features every year they need to be seen in game to be fully appreciated.....its a bit like seeing some food and saying you dont like it before you have actually tried it

[Federico]

Definitely.

And it's not that you see VAR every 5 minutes of gameplay. There matches IRL where the ref goes to the on field review 2-3 times, but for the most of them nothing happens. Some comments here are so blatant and biased I can't believe what I'm reading. Having 25 questions during a PC is ok because that's part of being a manager. But no, VAR no, remove it please 

[grade]

2 minutes ago, Federico said:

Definitely.

It's not that you see VAR every 5 minutes of gameplay. Some comments here are so blatant and biased I can't believe what I'm reading 

I always refrain to see the feature in full in game or other videos of it. But if the video is the only animation we are going to see. It last 25 seconds (depending where referee is position in the field), it makes the matches last longer. That is my only complain, of course If that is not the case I will happily say I was wrong.

But I can only comment from what I saw and what I saw, makes me concern that is going to make the matches in game last even longer.

[Federico]

If ever, it's +25 secs to add to a match giving you a little bit of suspense back.

Is it THAT bad??

[grade]

You might be right about that, maybe my concerns be valid. As always my full opinion is always seeing the video of features or trying the game.

I don't deny it, I will probably buy the game regardless. I'm that type of a fan.

[forameuss]

13 hours ago, GerdMuller said:

I think to see it as GREAT is a little over the top though

Yeah, how dare he have a personal opinion that doesn't match yours?

[GreenTriangle]

 

6 minutes ago, Federico said:

If ever, it's +25 secs to add to a match

Is it THAT bad??

No, if these 25 secs are "covered" by specific interactions and shouts. We are supposed to be managers, not tv watchers.

[Federico]

If "you're a manager", you should know what "real managers" do during an on field review: nothing. But wait for the response. Which thing make them "less" manager and more "theater audience" according to you?

[GreenTriangle]

Ok, that's your style of management. Nothing wrong. But for some people every second is very important if they can use these seconds for interactions and shouts. There are some specific interactions/shouts during VAR ?

[VP.]

49 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

That doesn't make sense. Thats like football teams saying they cant play matches where VAR is not being used for fear of goals not being given

Of course as we saw during the world cup what is visible to everyone seems to sometimes get missed by the VAR team e.g. even the VAR team make mistakes. Where interpretation is a factor then there will always be opposing views

Its more that now I've seen a glimpse of the new game I find it impossible to play the current one, happens to me every year.

[Federico]

15 minuti fa, GreenTriangle ha scritto:

Ok, that's your style of management. Nothing wrong. But for some people every second is very important if they can use these seconds for interactions and shouts. There are some specific interactions/shouts during VAR ?

I thank you for your understanding, but that's not "my" style of management, but the "style" of every Serie A manager. Maybe in your Country managers use to gather all the squad around to give instructions, assuming there's VAR in your Country. But I'm pretty sure you can pause the game anytime to make every change you feel the need to make and anyway this has nothing to do with VAR animation, considering the game is stopped.

[GreenTriangle]

Of course. But if this time can be covered by some useful options, not by looking at the referee ... would be better for some people. 

[herne79]

A slightly controversial game feature released in the build up to the next FM?  Who'd have thought.

More fuel for the hype fire .

[Vicz]

I think the real question is what is the actual process that's being introduced here? Which, even though that sounds like a simple question, requires a understanding of the basic referee decision coding in the game. Is there actually variance in how a referee can judge a call in the game? Assuming there is, does the addition of VAR introduce a second decision phase? Where maybe the referee makes a decision with more accuracy? If this is the case then it shouldn't be a turn on/off feature because it does simulate real football. If the whole thing is cosmetic and the referee will make the same decision with or without VAR then yes please allow it to be disabled.