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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2019 Feature Blogs: Revamped Tactics Module

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Tactics is my favourite part of FM so to see all of these changes and new ideas is fantastic, should be a real game changer. 

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8 hours ago, Rashidi said:

What I did find very strange was the tactic page. There we have a counter/attacking fluid 532 played with a deep engagement line and a deep defensive line where the players are told to counter press? Seems like a conflict in instructions to achieve the counter press. So there are going to be chances for people to mess this up.

By the way, on this, I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea.

For example currently on FM18 I'm using a very bottom-heavy strikerless formation on counter mentality. If I used this on FM19, this at first sounds like an awful fit for a counter-press with the players too far back to effectively counter-press. However I also have loads of attack duties, therefore when we're in possession we can actually be pretty damn advanced. So given this, I think we could maybe get away with doing a counter-press when we immediately lose possession, and then retreat to a low block if that fails.

I think one of the most exciting, intriguing things about FM19, will be attempting to do some contradictory things like this... experimenting with different behaviours in and out of possession and in transitions. Of course there also needs to be some drawbacks not to get overextended between 2 completely different stances. There definitely needs to be a lot of space for users to get it wrong, it's not a fun game if that can't happen! And I think there will be...


Another intriguing factor is how attacking/defensive width will play out. I think generally most teams will want to defend as narrow as possible, and attack as wide as possible - limit the space on the pitch to the opposition to attack, increase the space on the pitch to yourself to attack. However there needs to be some drawbacks to setting things like this - perhaps your team will be caught in transition between the two stances, perhaps defending too narrow will open yourself up to too many crosses, perhaps defending too narrow will make it too hard to then moving the ball out of defence when you regain possession...

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2 minutes ago, Federico said:

Can someone kindly explain me what you mean by "wibble/wobble"? :lol:

Many many moons ago Championship Manager had a "With the ball"/"Without the ball" option. Rather genuiously it acquired the 'acronym' WiBall/W O Ball - wibble-wobble!

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You shown me the light! I mean I read that WIB WOB since ages and always wandered or tried to guess its meaning.

And did it work? It seems to me people tend to remember it negatively. I started playing FM pretty late (2006) and many many moons ago I used to play "player manager" or "the manager". CM was published by Domark if I remember correctly and I have to confess that publisher was kinda infamous, here in Italy at least, and that reputation influenced me really much.

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4 minutes ago, Federico said:

You shown me the light! I mean I read that WIB WOB since ages and always wandered or tried to guess its meaning.

And did it work? It seems to me people tend to remember it negatively. I started playing FM pretty late (2006) and many many moons ago I used to play "player manager" or "the manager". CM was published by Domark if I remember correctly and I have to confess that publisher was kinda infamous, here in Italy at least, and that reputation influenced me really much.

As old posters are pointing out, it was unrealistic. You could effectively set up one tactic when in possession of the ball and a completely unrelated one when not in possession. What FM19 seems to be offering is the key missing link - the transition phase. Now, hopefully, it will work beautifully!

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I hope so. The fact they managed to implement this feature after years of requests by the community is great and I can't wait to try it

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1 minute ago, Federico said:

I hope so. The fact they managed to implement this feature after years of requests by the community is great and I can't wait to try it

I'm happy for all the players who manage the likes of Liverpool and Man City. As a lower league manager, this will all be above my head. As per usual my transition instruction will simply be 'lump it up to the front man!'

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2 minuti fa, phnompenhandy ha scritto:

As old posters are pointing out, it was unrealistic. You could effectively set up one tactic when in possession of the ball and a completely unrelated one when not in possession. What FM19 seems to be offering is the key missing link - the transition phase. Now, hopefully, it will work beautifully!

it isn't unrealistic at all. it is exactly how football is coached. well, at least coaches as guardiola who want to control everything. the problem with wibble wobble was that the ME isn't advanced enough to cope with it. that is why we have generic "play out of the back" instruction where the ME decides for you how the team plays out of the back. In real, you would coach that and tell your players exactly where to stand, where to move and in what circumstances. very much wibble wobble.

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1 minute ago, phnompenhandy said:

I'm happy for all the players who manage the likes of Liverpool and Man City. As a lower league manager, this will all be above my head. As per usual my transition instruction will simply be 'lump it up to the front man!'

As I hardcore LLM I gottta point out that, eventually, we all become the next Man City

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Just now, MBarbaric said:

it isn't unrealistic at all. it is exactly how football is coached. well, at least coaches as guardiola who want to control everything. the problem with wibble wobble was that the ME isn't advanced enough to cope with it. that is why we have generic "play out of the back" instruction where the ME decides for you how the team plays out of the back. In real, you would coach that and tell your players exactly where to stand, where to move and in what circumstances. very much wibble wobble.

Yeah, I meant the old CM wibble-wobble screen was unrealistic, not the concept; hence I'm very happy to see it back to work as it should do.

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9 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

As old posters are pointing out, it was unrealistic. You could effectively set up one tactic when in possession of the ball and a completely unrelated one when not in possession. What FM19 seems to be offering is the key missing link - the transition phase. Now, hopefully, it will work beautifully!

tbf I don't think it ever had any influence on the match engine at that time & it was just a placebo that every bought into, as soon as SI introduced a visual representation of the ME it was dropped which could be seen as a clue to its influence.

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1 minute ago, Barside said:

tbf I don't think it ever had any influence on the match engine at that tiem & it was just a placebo that every bought into, as soon as SI introduced a visual representation of the ME it was dropped.

Well before the days of 3D, wasn't it. Can barely remember that far back, tbf.

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1 minute ago, phnompenhandy said:

Well before the days of 3D, wasn't it. Can barely remember that far back, tbf.

Was last seen on CM3 01/02, disappeared when CM4 came along with the 2D viewer.

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2 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Ha ha, not the way I play, not from level 22  :D

Ah ok :-) So I guess I'm not THAT LLM as I thought :-)

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1 minute ago, skam said:

Ah ok :-) So I guess I'm not THAT LLM as I thought :-)

Heh, I'm waiting for the editor to finish verifying my 22 levels at the moment. Just about to fire up a career down in level 22 as an academy challenge. Yup, my destiny will depend on fat 15-year-old kids from a Sussex village of some 200 retirees. The nearest we'll get to Etihad is watching the planes fly overhead from Heathrow.

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8 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Heh, I'm waiting for the editor to finish verifying my 22 levels at the moment. Just about to fire up a career down in level 22 as an academy challenge. Yup, my destiny will depend on fat 15-year-old kids from a Sussex village of some 200 retirees. The nearest we'll get to Etihad is watching the planes fly overhead from Heathrow.

Out of curiousity - how high have you ever managed to be promoted from the 22 level? :)

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Just now, phnompenhandy said:

This year I made it level 15. But more determined souls have gone further - one is hitting the Premier League right now.

England to Level 22

 

Epic. I wish other countries had similar mods.

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1 minute ago, skam said:

Epic. I wish other countries had similar mods.

There are plenty in that forum - not down to level 22 but some go a long way! Lose yourself in it!

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Just now, phnompenhandy said:

There are plenty in that forum - not down to level 22 but some go a long way! Lose yourself in it!

Guess I will. Damnit! :lol:

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7 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

While I like what changes there are and what it means for our creativity, I'm more excited about the AI using it to create more distinct styles of play.

Totally agree which is why I think Manchester City  could be one benchmark, and I am sure others will be applying the litmus test to other systems.

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More agreement from me, the entire feature will in my mind will be a success or failure based on how competent the AI is at replicating a manager’s real life tactical approach & relative success or failure.

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I am curios if FM 19 improved the ball possession numbers for teams ( managers ) who like to keep the ball and pass it a lot. FM 18 was not even close in this regards.

 

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I had decided to continue with FM18 but since the feature release this has changed. Just pre-ordered FM19. I mean, if this works out its the best upgrade in years.

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23 hours ago, GunmaN1905 said:

This was the most needed thing, imo.
I avoided using wide team shape because the defense would be all over the place with that setting.

Your players intentionally kick the ball into defenders so they can get corners? :D

Or, as we Inter fans call it, the "Candreva" mode. :D

Wondering if the set piece creator has suffered some much needed changes.

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On 27/09/2018 at 06:55, Neil Brock said:

There’s a new instruction included in here called ‘play for set pieces’ which can be useful if your team is especially effective from dead-ball situations.

Does this mean it will be possible for players to actually score direct free kicks in FM19? Because if so, this is a really nice touch.

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I took the time to watch the youtube video of the new features today and read the post about the new tactics screen and gotta say: I'm very excited with the news and almost surprised with how much of what most of us (posters) usually complain about has been addressed, and in what appears to be a very elegant way.

 

To us this is still very theoretical and let's see how it ends up working, but that gave me a very good first impression!  

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1 hour ago, andu1 said:

I am curios if FM 19 improved the ball possession numbers for teams ( managers ) who like to keep the ball and pass it a lot. FM 18 was not even close in this regards.

 

Yeah. We can't really say or see much more until we get hands on the match engine. But at least we know the TC has moved considerably forwards in the right direction. Now it's to see where the match engine is. 

@Seb Wassell I'm sure this has been taken care of already, but when the match engine tease stuff is ready to be unleashed on us, it would be good if the match engine examples are utilising bits from the TC that are new or overhauled. 

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56 minutes ago, Marius_R said:

Or, as we Inter fans call it, the "Candreva" mode. :D

Wondering if the set piece creator has suffered some much needed changes. 

Yeah, set pieces have been the worst part of the game for years now.

Especially free kicks.

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4 hours ago, DP said:

That’s obviously not true. Managers watch the games and see how the players do. Just like we the fans do. 

Stats help, sure. But our main source is the actual game, clearly. 

You can see everything from the bench? Every feint, tackle, interception? Then what's the point of reviewing the game in a bird's eye view? At the top level, you have to know exactly what each player does at all times in a game. I doubt any manager has 11 chameleon-like eyes. You can't prepare for a game while playing it.

You all talk of dribbling skills, feints, but remember what Ferguson said to Ronaldo about his exaggerated use of skills.

Edited by Vali184

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19 hours ago, Steve Atherton said:

All looks good, but I did ask the following question for FM18 - and didn't receive a reply.

"When defending a wide free kick (And to some degree corners) I do not have an option to place a man outside the area. The only options seem to be "join the wall", "mark players in the area" or "stay forward". This inevitably leads to the opposition playing the free kick to one of their players just outside the area - with none of my players being able to close him down. I have to say that my team also take advantage of this when having attacking wide free kicks. Why cannot we place players anywhere on the pitch for set pieces?"

Does anyone know whether we will be free to position our players where we want for set pieces?

I agree, set piece attacking and defending was still incredibly simplistic and uncustomisable in FM18. I really hope it's improved for this iteration as set pieces are probably my least favourite part of the game so far.

 

Having players mark the posts is completely useless too...

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21 minutes ago, Vali184 said:

You can see everything from the bench? Every feint, tackle, interception? Then what's the point of reviewing the game in a bird's eye view? At the top level, you have to know exactly what each player does at all times in a game. I doubt any manager has 11 chameleon-like eyes. You can't prepare for a game while playing it.

You all talk of dribbling skills, feints, but remember what Ferguson said to Ronaldo about his exaggerated use of skills.

I could say what’s the point in even having a 3d engine then? They obviously want a realistic experience that mirrors watching a real match as close as possibly hence we get a visual engine. Once you’ve committed to it you have to strive to make it better. If we were just supposed to use the stats, Sigames would have stuck to commentary only. 

As for you second point I’m not sure how that is relevant but it also proves my point. If we can’t see a player doing feints how can we ever have a conversation like Fergie did? Surely that’s the ultimate aim?

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1 hour ago, Barside said:

More agreement from me, the entire feature will in my mind will be a success or failure based on how competent the AI is at replicating a manager’s real life tactical approach & relative success or failure.

Ill be happy if Guardiola isn't fired by January in all of my saves. 

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I've honestly never been more excited for a new FM edition than this time. The tactical overhaul sounds great and will give us much more control. For example: great that defensive width isn't predetermined anymore by mentality. I like the 'Line of confrontation' setting, so that I don't have to play strikerless anymore to get my forward get back behind the ball (hopefully). Linked with the massive changes in training, this gives the game even more depth.  Very promising.

Let's hope there'll be more (zonal) possibilities in set pieces defending and more movement variations in offensive set pieces.

In fact, 'thanks' to the announcement of FM19 and the wide array of new options, I've lost the will to play FM18. Come on, beta!

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One thing that SI have not mentioned with is pretty big when concerning tactics is that by the looks of it you can now play the Libero in CB strata according do this picture. 

8.png.355afd8821922e17c55c1ad3377b82b4.p

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10 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

We will now have geggenpressing and various iterations of pressing tactics. Will this be adequately reflected in stamina and match condition levels?

I think it will be. Even now you can see the effects of playing on Overload, pressing intensive systems, if you know where to look. 

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What I would like to know is how would "in transition" work?. What if I want to use counter-press only when my team lost possession in the final third and regroup when we lost it in my half? is it possible?

Edited by Anuth

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1 hour ago, gunnersguy said:

One thing that SI have not mentioned with is pretty big when concerning tactics is that by the looks of it you can now play the Libero in CB strata according do this picture. 

8.png.355afd8821922e17c55c1ad3377b82b4.p

That is pretty big, indeed!

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1 hour ago, gunnersguy said:

One thing that SI have not mentioned with is pretty big when concerning tactics is that by the looks of it you can now play the Libero in CB strata according do this picture. 

8.png.355afd8821922e17c55c1ad3377b82b4.p

Also the career stats box bottom right seems new and looks nice. I hope both that and the history tab show total games tho, not just league apps. 

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On 27/09/2018 at 10:16, mhaffy said:

"vertical tiki-taka", and is a possession-based style with plenty of short, quick passes but an emphasis on moving up the pitch quickly. In other words: "liquid football".

Liquid football... like this?

 

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2 hours ago, gunnersguy said:

One thing that SI have not mentioned with is pretty big when concerning tactics is that by the looks of it you can now play the Libero in CB strata according do this picture. 

8.png.355afd8821922e17c55c1ad3377b82b4.p

Pleased to see this finally get through to release.

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41 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Also the career stats box bottom right seems new and looks nice. I hope both that and the history tab show total games tho, not just league apps. 

Not new at all

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2 minutes ago, autohoratio said:

Not new at all

New for me :D havent ever used that screen... But i forgot i always change landing screen to attributes 

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13 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

Well, this is certainly the most exciting thread amongst the announcement of FM19 features. I've already given several upvotes to positive posts and have nothing new to add except one uncertainty. As some astute posters mention, the proof will be in the pudding - how well will these tactical innovations translate in the match engine? How sophisticated will the AI be for our opponents?

There is one key aspect unmentioned so far that I'm concerned about. We will now have geggenpressing and various iterations of pressing tactics. Will this be adequately reflected in stamina and match condition levels? Until now its been inadequate - low-stamina players could press all match, drop to 50% condition and keep going all season. For me, pressing strategies must affect not just the condition %age but the actual energy of players within the match and especially over the season. It should require the need for more rotation and serious attention in pre-season training as well as in-season training. We need to see, for example, players who return from a world cup and have a short pre-season in a geggenpressing team, drop in energy levels and increase in injury proneness, and give more fouls away due to fatigue. As a manager of lower league part-time teams, it should be utterly unrealistic to expect my teams to attempt such tactics.

 

 

This is huge. In my last two saves I ended up getting hired by Milan where I built very strong, physical squads with high levels of fitness. To match this I adopted aggressive pressing styles. I also rotated - A LOT. In fact, I had relatively well-defined A and B squads that would switch out midweek depending on the opposition. Of course I mixed it up to help chemistry, etc., but the point is I took painstaking care to keep players from dropping below 70% in a match. I was disappointed to find that this didn't seem to really help me any - after an entire season of maintaining well-rested, happy, and fit players, there was no noticeable difference between the squads that played the same 11 week in and week out. I feel like it should be more noticeable if/when you wear down another team's fitness in a match, and longterm fitness and injuries should perhaps reflect this better as well. Just seems like I went through a lot of squad building and tactical trouble for nothing, then again I did win the league, so perhaps there was some subtle positives I didn't notice.

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Being able to choose and change different tactics for different phases of play is there any indication you will be able to set different formations during these phases too? 

Edited by QuassoRP

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Seriously guys, this looks like a sea change. On par with the introduction of the tactics creator. Breaking it down in different phases of play makes it feel so much more lifelike, and would be a great improvement even without additional instructions. It should also become clear to everyone that counterpressing is a whole other animal than pressing high. And providing style templates should also make so much easier for beginners to jump in, while also providing something for players who just don't want to be bothered all that much with tactics.

My only concern is that there's no slider to adjust vertical compactness (depth) as there are sliders to adjust horizontal compactness (width). Someone suggested that can be done by adjusting your roles, but that wouldn't be satisfactory at all. I'd like to be able to freely determine who stays back, who links up play and who acts as point man, while separately instructing how close the lines stay to each other. I'd rather not be forced to tell my striker to drop deep instead of being available to make runs, just so that I can have the team play more compact. It would be like doing away with the width sliders and having to rely solely on sit narrower/stay wider PIs.

Edited by Farina

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Will it be possible to give personalised instructions for the different phases of play? For example, if I don't want certain players counterpressing in transition phase.

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