Football Manager 2019 Feature Blogs: Revamped Tactics Module

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, Alekos said:

Wait a sec guys..Why do I think that all those features were already in previous games but not in this detail level?Only if those three phases let you change positions and not only width pressing etc would be an overhaul..

For example.. With the new tactics shall I be able to to play a 4-4-2 while attacking and while defending 4-1-4-1 or not? Could someone let us know?

So what is called an overhaul it was the same in previous versions by just adding each player instructions...It reminds me the last year's Hierarchy which was already in game but they made a menu for it so nothing new...

Hope I am mistaken...

If you look closely, they weren't. Several are new, and more have been unlinked, which changes how they can be used. 

It's actually a pretty huge overhaul if one has a look at it. 

[themadsheep2001]

I'm genuinely starting to wonder how much attention people have been paying to the Tactics creator in the past if they can't already spot the major changes. 

[Alekos]

Well because I looked at it very closely that's why I expressed that opinion..What I see in the defensive phase is just the defensive line???Can I change the shape of tactics or not?

Edited September 27, 2018 by Alekos

[themadsheep2001]

4 minutes ago, Alekos said:

Well because I looked at it very closely that's why I expressed that opinion..What I see in the defensive phase is just the defensive line???Can I change the shape of tactics or not?

Just on the team instructions alone, we can see you can control:

1) your defensive line

2) your line of first engagement

3) your defensive width 

As well as the usual modifying tackling, marking, offside and keeper pressure

So it's not just your defensive line there...

[rdbayly]

On 27/09/2018 at 23:05, themadsheep2001 said:

I'm genuinely starting to wonder how much attention people have been paying to the Tactics creator in the past if they can't already spot the major changes. 

Based on the revealing responses I’ve seen on here today, I’m starting to believe that the main priority for a growing segment of the userbase is shiny pixels to look at whilst eating popcorn.

Someone complaining about graphics actually said earlier ‘who cares about new tactics and training’. 

People actually exist who would rather watch a digitally perfect Ronaldo do tricks and flicks, rather than actually MANAGE and COACH a football club.

I’m trying hard not to swear, but these people need to get in the sea.. Along with everyone at EA Sports.

Edited September 30, 2018 by rdbayly

[yonko]

These changes look promising and I'm excited to test how it all works. It will be interesting how these instructions are reflected in the ME.

I'm curious if any existing roles have been reworked, like the False 9 for example. If the CBs split properly when using HB with players in FB positions (not the WB positions where they split too wide). Does Play Out Of Defense instruction have more substation effect in the ME?

With the reworked Training model it looks like there may be more link between that and Tactics, which is what I was hoping from future versions.

Yeah, I'll buy the game and play as I'm addicted fan....been that since CM Italia 1993.

[SAF II]

Isn't the no nonsense centre back the same as defensive centre back 

[mojojojo101]

30 minutes ago, SAF II said:

Isn't the no nonsense centre back the same as defensive centre back 

All the new roles seem to be old roles renamed but that isn't necessarily a bad thing, the old names were a little silly. DCB was a but weird because surely every CB is defensive, NCB gives a clearer idea of what it actually means. On the other hand it will be called NCB, which kind of seems like it means Nonsense Centre Back.

 

From what we've seen I'm positive, I like that it seems much of the instructions you could have weaseled your way into with previous versions are now much more obvious and intuitive, got to see how it all interacts with the match engine first though because as is the engine just doesn't really seem to understand pressing at all.

[MBarbaric]

5 ore fa, themadsheep2001 ha scritto:

@MBarbaric we had long discussions on how to take the TC forward. Would be interested to hear your thoughts so far. 

I am really pleased with the reveal regarding tactics overhaul. It is most of the things we have been asking for several years now. However, I'd remain cautious. We already had sweeper keeper in the game, dribble around goalkeeper... and other stuff that didn't really do anything in the match engine. So, until I see it in the ME, the overhaul only sounds good on paper.

I am most curious to see "Play out of the back" instruction. Normally, the manager decides and coaches the team how to do it in various scenarios (i.e. against defending team with two or three players in first line of defence). We don't have this kind of control in the game so it will be interesting how did SI solve that. Especially as the tactics overhaul promises more refined high pressing. Another factor will be the goalkeeper. In real, he is fundamental when playing out of the back, especially against aggressive teams... and I have trouble imagining proper movement, positioning and decisionmaking from a goalkeeper in FM. If that was done properly, that would be  a huge leap forward for the ME.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2018 by MBarbaric

[Rashidi]

4 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

if I'm genuinely starting to wonder how much attention people have been paying to the Tactics creator in the past if they can't already spot the major changes. 

I agree, to me there are some good changes like rewording mentality. Note the use of the word "Positive", there are some other clarifications as well. My initial impression:

Most users have never been able to create "custom styles", its been a skillset of a minority of players, however with the new changes, it appears that there are pushing tactical styles to the forefront and making people take more steps that should give them more control over making tactics, but also increase the risk they screw up.

IN FM18 You can "fast track" tactical styles, for example:  create a counter pressing system played at a brisk pace with a high line of engagement or a low line of engagement in FM18. Issue is most people find it convoluted sans those who know the engine intimately.  Now the AI manager will still have its "route" to making tactics, it may choose a verity of options, or as I expect there will be managerial styles that impact the steps it takes. For any new player say one who wants to make the Counter pressing system played at a brisk pace with a high line of engagement, for the new player  he will need to decide:

Who plays on support where they play and how many are on support/attack/defend - this would influence shape, the screenshot which shows counter-attack/fluid is a good example. You could theoretically create Counter Press/Overload, how you choose to distribute the support roles would affect the shape. And if this is what I think it is, then its an interesting change. I tend to play FM18, on Counter-Press Overload with a low line of engagement in FM18. It can be done now, so to me this is just offering new players a more intuitive way of doing it. They will see the effect of how roles and duty distribution affect their transitions. If they find the steps too convoluted they can start with a baseplate, much like how I currently create styles for people and export them as templates for others to go experiment.

What I did find very strange was the tactic page. There we have a counter/attacking fluid 532 played with a deep engagement line and a deep defensive line where the players are told to counter press? Seems like a conflict in instructions to achieve the counter press. So there are going to be chances for people to mess this up.

In another more detailed image you see the term "Custom Fluid Counter Attack" under Tactical Style,  I do hope that SI allow these terms to be edited, so if  I were to create a unique system I would hate to see the word "Custom".

The best change by far is "attacking width" and "defending width" took a few years, but we finally got the one change that could potentially have a profound effect on how we play.

The next thing I like is tactical styles now we seem to have 9 showing though I think there may be 10. What I found interesting was the choice to have Catenacio in there, which is a redundant tactical system that retired a long time ago. The next update will be significant, cos we need to see the player instructions themselves.

How this all relates back to the online gaming world of FMTouch will be interesting or even FM19 esports matches. I doubt players will have that much time to hop through the hoops. So for the veterans it will be about looking for the biggest gamechangers in the tactics screen, for me its the defensive/offensive width. I for one can't wait to test a match out against Manchester City, it could be the benchmark for testing, and please don't show this to Pep, and tie VTK to it, he will probably ban the game for his players, such is his derision for people who associate tiki taka with him.

[..Valhalla..]

13 hours ago, XaW said:

Going to be fun to experiment and try to see if I can really replicate Klopp now!

You certainly won't be the only one. He and Guardiola are probably gonna be the most aped styles in FM19 with this new tactics module.

[masno]

One thing that I didn't get it, this styles are just pre-selected instructions or they have some "under the hood" mechanic going on?

[Sourav B]

a great feature, I have always wanted this kind of tactics which will allow more fluidity and stability!! well plz fix the ui cz fm18 ui was horrible specially match ui fm17 was good.

[Federico]

Really excited about this massive change, something asked for ages, and eager to see how all this, along with trainings, translates into the ME.

On the paper it's an outstanding work in my opinion and worth a blind purchase

[yonko]

2 hours ago, Rashidi said:

I agree, to me there are some good changes like rewording mentality. Note the use of the word "Positive", there are some other clarifications as well. My initial impression:

Most users have never been able to create "custom styles", its been a skillset of a minority of players, however with the new changes, it appears that there are pushing tactical styles to the forefront and making people take more steps that should give them more control over making tactics, but also increase the risk they screw up.

IN FM18 You can "fast track" tactical styles, for example:  create a counter pressing system played at a brisk pace with a high line of engagement or a low line of engagement in FM18. Issue is most people find it convoluted sans those who know the engine intimately.  Now the AI manager will still have its "route" to making tactics, it may choose a verity of options, or as I expect there will be managerial styles that impact the steps it takes. For any new player say one who wants to make the Counter pressing system played at a brisk pace with a high line of engagement, for the new player  he will need to decide:

Who plays on support where they play and how many are on support/attack/defend - this would influence shape, the screenshot which shows counter-attack/fluid is a good example. You could theoretically create Counter Press/Overload, how you choose to distribute the support roles would affect the shape. And if this is what I think it is, then its an interesting change. I tend to play FM18, on Counter-Press Overload with a low line of engagement in FM18. It can be done now, so to me this is just offering new players a more intuitive way of doing it. They will see the effect of how roles and duty distribution affect their transitions. If they find the steps too convoluted they can start with a baseplate, much like how I currently create styles for people and export them as templates for others to go experiment.

What I did find very strange was the tactic page. There we have a counter/attacking fluid 532 played with a deep engagement line and a deep defensive line where the players are told to counter press? Seems like a conflict in instructions to achieve the counter press. So there are going to be chances for people to mess this up.

In another more detailed image you see the term "Custom Fluid Counter Attack" under Tactical Style,  I do hope that SI allow these terms to be edited, so if  I were to create a unique system I would hate to see the word "Custom".

The best change by far is "attacking width" and "defending width" took a few years, but we finally got the one change that could potentially have a profound effect on how we play.

The next thing I like is tactical styles now we seem to have 9 showing though I think there may be 10. What I found interesting was the choice to have Catenacio in there, which is a redundant tactical system that retired a long time ago. The next update will be significant, cos we need to see the player instructions themselves.

How this all relates back to the online gaming world of FMTouch will be interesting or even FM19 esports matches. I doubt players will have that much time to hop through the hoops. So for the veterans it will be about looking for the biggest gamechangers in the tactics screen, for me its the defensive/offensive width. I for one can't wait to test a match out against Manchester City, it could be the benchmark for testing, and please don't show this to Pep, and tie VTK to it, he will probably ban the game for his players, such is his derision for people who associate tiki taka with him.

There are always ways for users to mess it up. 

The tactical styles look to be basically templates to team instructions like the player roles are to the player instructions. It will be interesting to see what we can customize within the styles as there are some hard coded instructions with player roles.

It seems like the possessions styles have more variety. There is Control Possession, Vertical Tiki-Taka and plain Tiki-Taka. It's like different levels of possession obsession - Pep City, Pep Bayern and Pep Barca basically. These 3 will be the first styles I will explore of course. I'm curious the most about the pressing possibilities. How much more control and variations we will have? And if it's really evolved and we can fine tune it, then what does that mean for play out of defense?

[kpsia518]

expected to see this in new ME :

 

 

 

[HUNT3R]

While I like what changes there are and what it means for our creativity, I'm more excited about the AI using it to create more distinct styles of play.

[chocolatecoatedballs]

This looks great, though there are 4 phases in a game, it will be interesting how they have implemented it in their 3.

This is a huge improvement though, I'm glad I pre-ordered it now, exciting stuff.

[phnompenhandy]

Well, this is certainly the most exciting thread amongst the announcement of FM19 features. I've already given several upvotes to positive posts and have nothing new to add except one uncertainty. As some astute posters mention, the proof will be in the pudding - how well will these tactical innovations translate in the match engine? How sophisticated will the AI be for our opponents?

There is one key aspect unmentioned so far that I'm concerned about. We will now have geggenpressing and various iterations of pressing tactics. Will this be adequately reflected in stamina and match condition levels? Until now its been inadequate - low-stamina players could press all match, drop to 50% condition and keep going all season. For me, pressing strategies must affect not just the condition %age but the actual energy of players within the match and especially over the season. It should require the need for more rotation and serious attention in pre-season training as well as in-season training. We need to see, for example, players who return from a world cup and have a short pre-season in a geggenpressing team, drop in energy levels and increase in injury proneness, and give more fouls away due to fatigue. As a manager of lower league part-time teams, it should be utterly unrealistic to expect my teams to attempt such tactics.

 

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

There is one key aspect unmentioned so far that I'm concerned about. We will now have geggenpressing and various iterations of pressing tactics. Will this be adequately reflected in stamina and match condition levels? Until now its been inadequate - low-stamina players could press all match, drop to 50% condition and keep going all season. For me, pressing strategies must affect not just the condition %age but the actual energy of players within the match and especially over the season. It should require the need for more rotation and serious attention in pre-season training as well as in-season training. We need to see, for example, players who return from a world cup and have a short pre-season in a geggenpressing team, drop in energy levels and increase in injury proneness, and give more fouls away due to fatigue. As a manager of lower league part-time teams, it should be utterly unrealistic to expect my teams to attempt such tactics.

I hate you

Didn’t think about the stamina issue & how performance drop off plus post match recovery has so far not been simulated in a satisfactory way, I am now also concerned that there is potential for this to have been overlooked.

[skam]

49 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

For me, pressing strategies must affect not just the condition %age but the actual energy of players within the match and especially over the season. It should require the need for more rotation".

This. Pressing opponents should result in players getting more fatigued, thus resulting  in more fouls committed and possibly more injuries suffered. Also overall fitness/stamina level and individual traits (agression, workrate, discipline etc.) of individual players should affect how successful the pressing is (but that's obvious, of course).

Overall - the tactical section is the most promising element of the new FM. 

Edited September 28, 2018 by skam

[Vali184]

3 hours ago, masno said:

One thing that I didn't get it, this styles are just pre-selected instructions or they have some "under the hood" mechanic going on?

Just presets mate.

[westy8chimp]

Like @Rashidi said, a lot of this was possible... Just not intuitive (which worked for me as i like trial and error and putting a lot of thought into a tactic). 

The width seperation is excellent... Hope it transitions neatly. 

The make or break though for me will be the line of engagement. On the face of it, a good start to making pressing more important. Is the line dragable anywhere or on a scale? High, low, medium? 

Whilst i could already set pressing traps and have focus areas where i want to win the ball back (using roles and duty in line with mentality)... I felt that it had to be the start point "stake in the ground"... If i want to win the ball high up... I need to build everything else around that.

The difference now hopefully is that i can play attacking football with top heavy formation, but set the line of engagement nearer the halfway line so my AM and striker drop deep before they press. That way we should press in 'gangs' rather than ones and twos. 

If i set my engagement line to the halfway line and i still see players press only when an opponent steps into their "zone" i'll be incredibly annoyed. 

Interested to see which players are affected by that instruction... Will it be selectable? If i set high engagement line i dont want my CB charging forward... 

I really hope we get punished if we select transition instructions that dont suit the rest of the formation. 

I think another good aspect will be seeing more different AI manager styles. In some of my recent saves i can go a whole season and only face 442,532,4141 4123 & 4231

Alll with pretty much the same roles, just different mentality. 

[themadsheep2001]

9 hours ago, rdbayly said:

Based on the revealing responses I’ve seen on here today, I’m starting to believe that the main priority for a growing segment of the usebase is shiny pixels to look at whilst eating popcorn.

Someone complaining about graphics actually said earlier ‘who cares about new tactics and training’. 

People actually exist who would rather watch a digitally perfect Ronaldo do tricks and flicks, rather than actually MANAGE and COACH a football club.

I’m trying hard not to swear, but these people need to get in the sea.. Along with everyone at EA Sports.

You see some of comments on the other page, and you realise what they want isn't real football, it's highlights football, YouTube football. It's the Ronaldo goal in the champions league, when the majority of football isn't like that. Hell, the majority of what Ronaldo does isn't like that. What they actually want is FiFa manager. 

[DP]

11 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

You see some of comments on the other page, and you realise what they want isn't real football, it's highlights football, YouTube football. It's the Ronaldo goal in the champions league, when the majority of football isn't like that. Hell, the majority of what Ronaldo does isn't like that. What they actually want is FiFa manager. 

I think you’re both being rather unfair. 

It’s not so much the ‘shiny’ graphics it’s more the match engine - and animations - giving us the necessary visual information to assess how good players are and appreciate what players we have at the club. Like I’ve said before, the engine still feels too generic when watching how good players are. As animations and visuals get better to visually help us assess what is going on we’ll get a better experience. Same with the overall ME. In FM18 I didn’t really know if my flying winger was really that good or whether it was because the engine was slightly bias towards attacking wing play. The ME and the graphical representation of it is key to understanding how your players are doing - for those of us that just don’t want to look at numbers. It’s far from just ‘shiny’ polish. 

Edited September 28, 2018 by DP

[Vali184]

Matches are analysed after the game by using the analysis tools. Just like a manager and his staff would do... Numbers don't lie.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Vali184

[rdbayly]

16 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

You see some of comments on the other page, and you realise what they want isn't real football, it's highlights football, YouTube football. It's the Ronaldo goal in the champions league, when the majority of football isn't like that. Hell, the majority of what Ronaldo does isn't like that. What they actually want is FiFa manager. 

FIFA is the crowning jewel on top of the turd of gaming. Its tapped in to the instant gratification needs of an audience with short attention spans and football celebrity obsession.

And just to clarify for the very final time, FM is a MANAGEMENT simulator about MANAGING.

Edit: Although the stadiums do look utterly dreadful and getting worse.

Edited September 28, 2018 by rdbayly

[Scoham]

Looking on Twitter some seem to believe we have wibble/wobble back, i.e. with and without ball formations. The transition screenshot shows two formations.

I don’t think that’s the case, I think it’s one formation but with arrows representing counter-press/regroup etc.

Can someone from SI confirm either way?

[enigmatic]

40 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

You see some of comments on the other page, and you realise what they want isn't real football, it's highlights football, YouTube football. It's the Ronaldo goal in the champions league, when the majority of football isn't like that. Hell, the majority of what Ronaldo does isn't like that. What they actually want is FiFa manager. 

I think wanting Messi's dribbling to look different from Aaron Lennon's is a pretty reasonable requirement though.

Not least because the underlying match engine and balance would be improved if the existence of a whole bunch of feint, body shift and trick animations meant that high skill, low pace/agility players had a lot more chance of beating an opponent [in a way which looked vaguely convincing]. Same goes for keepers; I can happily live without a scorpion kick animation but would like to see a lot more punches, good and bad...

[grade]

Looks promising, but I would like to see some sort of footage or video of this.

[westy8chimp]

Agree, as much as the fifa fans want to see tricks etc... Surely if you manage LLM you want to feel like its LLM by the omission of those tricks or the complete fails in trying to pull them off. At the moment like others have said, the game feels exactly the same whether i manage Barcelona or Grimsby. 

[DP]

1 hour ago, Vali184 said:

Matches are analysed after the game by using the analysis tools. Just like a manager and his staff would do... Numbers don't lie.

That’s obviously not true. Managers watch the games and see how the players do. Just like we the fans do. 

Stats help, sure. But our main source is the actual game, clearly. 

[HUNT3R]

43 minutes ago, Scoham said:

Looking on Twitter some seem to believe we have wibble/wobble back, i.e. with and without ball formations. The transition screenshot shows two formations.

I don’t think that’s the case, I think it’s one formation but with arrows representing counter-press/regroup etc.

Can someone from SI confirm either way?

The screenshot shows that they are just different formations. They're named different. One's a 532 WB and the other a 532 Narrow. Had it been wib/wob, the formation name would have remained the same. Also, if it was, that's a poor one as the only players getting slightly forward are the FBs to WB.  

[noikeee]

Okay after thinking a bit about this I am getting more doubts about "line engagement" and "team shape", how that works, and if this is how it should work ideally. What I'm most concerned about is, if "line engagement" ends up being almost the same thing that team shape was.

Let's rewind a bit and go back to the up-to-FM18 match engine, this is how things work in FM18 I believe:

- the ME underneath does not understand team mentalities or team shapes, it just processes mentality and creative freedom for individual players like it did in the pre-TC days. Mentality = how high-up their positioning is both in and out of possession, and how vertical their decisions on the ball are, ex lower mentality more likely to pass backwards. Creative freedom = a modifier in how tightly players stick to your instructions or can creatively disregard them to do what they want.

- roles and duties make the biggest change to player mentality, in addition to this certain roles have extra hardcoded runs and positioning choices, which the ME *does* understand.

- team mentality (counter/control/attacking etc) modifies the underlying individual mentality for all players.

- team shape (structured/fluid etc) is an extra modifier on mentality, with the more structured choices increasing the difference in mentality between defenders and attackers and between defend duties and attack duties, the opposite in fluid meaning in fluid defenders attack more and defenders attack more. By consequences "fluid" is more compact, and "structured" more spread out - both in and out of possession. In addition to this creative freedom is set almost exclusively by team shape, with very fluid giving them high creative freedom and the opposite to structured.

- "defensive line" is a separate input into the ME apart from mentality, understood by the ME underneath, that sets how high up the back line is... both in and out of possession.

 

 

Now this is how I believe FM19 will work, after analysing those screenies, though I am still a bit confused:

- the ME underneath is still based on mentality and creative freedom of individual players.

- roles and duties still work the same way

- team mentality still works the same, just renamed counter/control to cautious/positive (simple but good change IMO)

- defensive line still works the same

- line of engagement is a new modifier into the ME, understood by the ME underneath the same way defensive line was, just applies to the forwards instead of the defenders.

- team shape no longer affects creative freedom (uh, hopefully?), and now only affects mentality. You can now no longer set team shape directly, instead it is calculated by how you set your defensive line and your line of engagement - if they're very spread apart (low def line / high engagement), the game tells the ME you want to play structured; if they're very close together (high def line / low engagement), the game tells the ME you want to play fluid. Team shape is still visible to the user, you just can't touch it directly.

- creative freedom can now only be affected through the "be more expressive/disciplined" TIs.

All of this is most definitely a good change, but I can't help to feel a tiny bit disappointed, although this is very harsh since these changes are almost exactly what I asked for in the past.

- My main concern is that team shape in FM18 affected behaviour in and out of possession. This was why it was such a pain of a setting, it changed so many things at once, when you might've only wanted a part of it. If team shape is still in the game just not directly changeable, AND set as a result of your defensive line and line of engagement... those are out of possession settings in the UI, yet they'll have major consequences in-possession as well. 

This is a) confusing/misleading in terms of UI, b) will still limit us tactically. Imagine I set a high def line, low engagement, just to try to make us very compact in defense.... this sets very fluid, so defenders will attack more, attackers will have lower mentality even on the ball....... so now I've had a bunch of unintended side-effects whilst in possession, when I just wanted a different defensive behaviour.

I understand the way the ME works, this is not easy to "fix". You'd have to give us a new, separate setting for how compact we want to be on the ball, and maybe even a separate setting for defensive line on the ball (like we now have separate width settings for defending/attacking). But a) that's starting to become a hell of a lot of tactical settings for the casual user to touch; and b) you'd almost have to redesign the ME underneath to look at all these new things instead of simply computing mentality! You'd probably need to have a separate mentality number for in and out of possession!

- I also have an issue with the name "fluid" which is still in the game, I think it's an utterly terrible name for team shape. It sort of makes sense for it to be called fluid/structured if we're affecting creative freedom, so in fluid systems players are more creative, and in structured they stick to instructions, okay. But....

a) if in FM19 team shape still affects creative freedom, this would be a very bad thing. This means going up and down with lines of engagement and defensive line settings, gives more or less creative freedom on the ball to players. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, and would pretty much defeat the point of this whole TC redesign.

b) if in FM19 team shape now does nothing to creative freedom, why call it fluid? I propose "very compact - compact - standard - spread out - very spread out" instead. Or "apart/further apart", or "separated/very separated" instead of "spread out". Because this is what team shape does now mostly, it glues lines together more or less, and that's just it, doesn't make the team play more "fluidly".

This was a long post, I hope it was clear enough and didn't bore people who attempted to read it.

Edited September 28, 2018 by noikeee

[themadsheep2001]

Team shapde

Just now, noikeee said:

Okay after thinking a bit about this I am getting more doubts about "line engagement" and "team shape", how that works, and if this is how it should work ideally. What I'm most concerned about is, if "line engagement" ends up being almost the same thing that team shape was.

Let's rewind a bit and go back to the up-to-FM18 match engine, this is how things work in FM18 I believe:

- the ME underneath does not understand team mentalities or team shapes, it just processes mentality and creative freedom for individual players like it did in the pre-TC days. Mentality = how high-up their positioning is both in and out of possession, and how vertical their decisions on the ball are, ex lower mentality more likely to pass backwards. Creative freedom = a modifier in how tightly players stick to your instructions or can creatively disregard them to do what they want.

- roles and duties make the biggest change to player mentality, in addition to this certain roles have extra hardcoded runs and positioning choices, which the ME *does* understand.

- team mentality (counter/control/attacking etc) modifies the underlying individual mentality for all players.

- team shape (structured/fluid etc) is an extra modifier on mentality, with the more structured choices increasing the difference in mentality between defenders and attackers and between defend duties and attack duties, the opposite in fluid meaning in fluid defenders attack more and defenders attack more. By consequences "fluid" is more compact, and "structured" more spread out - both in and out of possession. In addition to this creative freedom is set almost exclusively by team shape, with very fluid giving them high creative freedom and the opposite to structured.

- "defensive line" is a separate input into the ME apart from mentality, understood by the ME underneath, that sets how high up the back line is... both in and out of possession.

Now this is how I believe FM19 will work, after analysing those screenies, though I am still a bit confused:

- the ME underneath is still based on mentality and creative freedom of individual players.

- roles and duties still work the same way

- team mentality still works the same, just renamed counter/control to cautious/positive (simple but good change IMO)

- defensive line still works the same

- line of engagement is a new modifier into the ME, understood by the ME underneath the same way defensive line was, just applies to the forwards instead of the defenders.

- team shape no longer affects creative freedom (uh, hopefully?), and now only affects mentality. You can now no longer set team shape directly, instead it is calculated by how you set your defensive line and your line of engagement - if they're very spread apart (low def line / high engagement), the game tells the ME you want to play structured; if they're very close together (high def line / low engagement), the game tells the ME you want to play fluid. Team shape is still visible to the user, you just can't touch it directly.

- creative freedom can now only be affected through the "be more expressive/disciplined" TIs.

Now, this is most definitely a good change, but I can't help to feel a tiny bit disappointed, although this is very harsh since these changes are almost exactly what I asked for in the past.

- My main concern is that team shape in FM18 affected behaviour in and out of possession. This was why it was such a pain of a setting, it changed so many things at once, when you might've only wanted a part of it. If team shape is still in the game just not directly changeable, AND set as a result of your defensive line and line of engagement... those are out of possession settings in the UI, yet they'll have major consequences in-possession as well. 

This is a) confusing/misleading in terms of UI, b) will still limit us tactically. Imagine I set a high def line, low engagement, just to try to make us very compact in defense.... this sets very fluid, so defenders will attack more, attackers will have lower mentality even on the ball....... so now I've had a bunch of unintended side-effects whilst in possession, when I just wanted a different defensive behaviour.

I understand the way the ME works, this is not easy to "fix". You'd have to give us a new, separate setting for how compact we want to be on the ball, and maybe even a separate setting for defensive line on the ball (like we now have separate width settings for defending/attacking). But a) that's starting to become a hell of a lot of tactical settings for the casual user to touch; and b) you'd almost have to redesign the ME underneath to look at all these new things instead of simply computing mentality! You'd probably need to have a separate mentality number for in and out of possession!

- I also have an issue with the name "fluid" which is still in the game, I think it's an utterly terrible name for team shape. It sort of makes sense for it to be called fluid/structured if we're affecting creative freedom, so in fluid systems players are more creative, and in structured they stick to instructions, okay. But....

a) if in FM19 team shape still affects creative freedom, this would be a very bad thing. This means going up and down with lines of engagement and defensive line settings, gives more or less creative freedom on the ball to players. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, and would pretty much defeat the point of this whole TC redesign.

b) if in FM19 team shape now does nothing to creative freedom, why call it fluid? I propose "very compact - compact - standard - spread out - very spread out" instead. Or "apart/further apart", or "separated/very separated" instead of "spread out". Because this is what team shape does now mostly, it glues lines together more or less, and that's just it, doesn't make the team play more "fluidly".

This was a long post, I hope it was clear enough and didn't bore people who attempted to read it.

Team shape is set by your role choices. That's already been confirmed. It's essentially just tell you what your structure looks like

[noikeee]

3 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Team shape is set by your role choices. That's already been confirmed. It's essentially just tell you what your structure looks like

That's even more confusing then.

So if I have my forwards on support duties and my fullbacks on attack duty I'm fluid; and the opposite I'm structured?

I don't get it.

[themadsheep2001]

5 minutes ago, noikeee said:

That's even more confusing then.

So if I have my forwards on support duties and my fullbacks on attack duty I'm fluid; and the opposite I'm structured?

I don't get it.

Why is it confusing? Shape is now a result of your own tactical choices. Rather than an arbitrary layer.

People need to not think of FM19 in terms of FM18. That's where confusion will come in 

[Carninho]

this probably isn't the time or place but I think that the tactic options should be limited at the start of the game depending on your experience. 

so when you select your manager profile and coaching experience, it will then allow you access to certain philosophies. ie Sunday league manager can only play long ball for a while? 

[Lucas]

1 minute ago, Carninho said:

so when you select your manager profile and coaching experience, it will then allow you access to certain philosophies. ie Sunday league manager can only play long ball for a while? 

Why? Your experience doesn't limit your brain and ideas.

[noikeee]

9 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Why is it confusing? Shape is now a result of your own tactical choices. Rather than an arbitrary layer.

People need to not think of FM19 in terms of FM18. That's where confusion will come in 

But is that layer/modifier completely removed, and team shape just a purely cosmetic indication to the user now then? Sort of like the red/green squares you see on the formation screen to tell you your roles choice is strong/weak in each area of the pitch? That's not bad (though we would lose a little functionality... for example what if I *do* want a modifier to keep everyone closer together than usual, to for example play a possession game with all the lines close together to facilitate shorter passes... but that's nitpicking, it's not a functionality I'd be particularly fussed about losing, as generally you can do most things with roles and all the other stuff)

What would be bad is, if I switch my fullbacks from support to attack, and the game says "oh wow! This must mean you must want to play fluid instead of flexible! I'll tweak the mentalities and CF of every other player for you then!"

[Carninho]

Just now, Lucas said:

Why? Your experience doesn't limit your brain and ideas.

yeah agreed but I just thought it adds some realism and challenge to the game. your not going to see tiki-taka played in the Macclesfield Town u19's overnight, but in FM you can do that even though the players aren't capable.

As they players and resources improve, maybe so should the options for the manager?

I don't know, its just a thought that hit me when I was reading this thread.

[westy8chimp]

8 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Why is it confusing? Shape is now a result of your own tactical choices. Rather than an arbitrary layer. 

Shape was a modifier tho. Just because i pick certain rolesike @noikeee example, doesnt mean i want fluid as a further layer on top.

Can we assume therefore that fluid/structure is now just a tag and doesnt further increase affect on the ME. 

I talk a lot in the tactics forum about how to use shape, mentality, role, duty, ti, pi either in synergy to all build to the same goal... Or use on or two to curtail some aspects of your play. I. E. Use attacking mentality and go all out high tempo and direct, so every time you wim the ball you look to put the opposition under pressure (id then maybe add fluid shape to up the mentality of defence further) ...or use attacking mentality to create forward thinking play but curtail it with settings like lower tempo, so whilst you positively want to go forward in possession, you do it in a more careful manner (i may also decide to add structure shape to keep my defend duties more focussed on holding position) 

I dont want one of those modifiers taken out of my control based on what the module thinks im trying to achieve based on my roles

[westy8chimp]

Just now, Carninho said:

yeah agreed but I just thought it adds some realism and challenge to the game. your not going to see tiki-taka played in the Macclesfield Town u19's overnight, but in FM you can do that even though the players aren't capable.

As they players and resources improve, maybe so should the options for the manager?

I don't know, its just a thought that hit me when I was reading this thread.

Rather than restrict your choice... It should punish you more for picking strategies and roles your players arent capable of. @phnompenhandyhas spoken about this in terms of stamina affects on high pressing...hes spot on and should also impact different elements for different styles

[Lucas]

4 minutes ago, Carninho said:

yeah agreed but I just thought it adds some realism and challenge to the game. your not going to see tiki-taka played in the Macclesfield Town u19's overnight, but in FM you can do that even though the players aren't capable.

As they players and resources improve, maybe so should the options for the manager?

I don't know, its just a thought that hit me when I was reading this thread.

Try playing tactical styles unsuitable for your team and you'll be punished on the pitch. Thats the drawback. Thats why certain specialist roles are only giving green / orange scores for players over a certain CA.

I'm sure, if you try playing a tactical style not suited to your team you'll run risk of poor form, fitness, etc - just the way it should be. 

And this is already realistic. Just ask Jim Gannon how he likes to set up his teams.... (quite possibly the worst Vale manager in living memory along with Michael Brown). 

[Powermonger]

5 minutes ago, Carninho said:

yeah agreed but I just thought it adds some realism and challenge to the game. your not going to see tiki-taka played in the Macclesfield Town u19's overnight, but in FM you can do that even though the players aren't capable.

As they players and resources improve, maybe so should the options for the manager?

I don't know, its just a thought that hit me when I was reading this thread.

I don't think it would be realistic to limit the managers options. I have a whole bookshelf of football tactics books written to educate coaches of all levels on systems of play for their football team. A coach might be tactical genius but not have skilled players at his resource to implement his ideas and strategies. I think if you limit a manager/coaches options then you limit their progression/learning/coaching.

[Atarin]

5 hours ago, kpsia518 said:

expected to see this in new ME :

 

 

 

Not strictly on topic but can I just say that that is the best camera angle you will ever see for demonstrating to someone what football IS. Its all about the creation and the restriction of space. I remember having a conversation with someone years ago who didn't get football at all. They couldn't understand why so much of the game was spent knocking it about in the middle third. It looked utterly pointless and boring to them. I tried to explain but I didn't have a visual aid. If I had that conversation now I would just show them this. Beautiful.

[Guest]

I always used the behind the goal camera when I was involved in testing & when assessing new tactical decision in my play saves, it should be the goto option for everyone when they start out creating their own tactics.

[Lucas]

Just now, Barside said:

I always used the behind the goal camera when I was involved in testing & when assessing new tactical decision in my play saves, it should be the goto option for everyone when they start out creating their own tactics.

Personally find Data Analyst / 2D view useful for this 

[Carninho]

7 minutes ago, Powermonger said:

I don't think it would be realistic to limit the managers options. I have a whole bookshelf of football tactics books written to educate coaches of all levels on systems of play for their football team. A coach might be tactical genius but not have skilled players at his resource to implement his ideas and strategies. I think if you limit a manager/coaches options then you limit their progression/learning/coaching.

I agree, but just cos you have the books doesn't mean that you can put on a coaching session, let alone apply it to a professional setup.

Plus I'm talking about FM not real life.

Its a bit like how FM greys out players that you haven't scouted. 

I'm just suggesting a similar setup for the managers' knowledge base at the start of the game. if you have a pro license you can do what you like, and if you start at the bottom then the game will use the fact that yo can go on coaching courses to allow you more tactical skills??

[craigcwwe]

Tactics is my favourite part of FM so to see all of these changes and new ideas is fantastic, should be a real game changer.