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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2019 Feature Blogs: Revamped Tactics Module

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you need tall man in TM role,i think the player should take more risk when crossing the ball.
 

Edited by kpsia518

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1 hour ago, Mitja said:

direct + risky passes + higher tempo seems hardcore possession wise but it's nice to see striker dropping deep to help defensivly.

the CM should pass the ball to the empty wing area more.

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@Neil Brock not sure if this has been asked/answered...

Do the preset tactic templates come with any under-the-hood functionality? I. E. If i select tika taka... Is it simply a set of roles and instructions conducive to recycling possession... Or is the recycling also aided by some under the hood (or increased/decreases mentality changes) linked to that style....

In essence... If i start building custom tactic from scratch and select exactly the same roles, duties and instructions... Will it play the same as choosing the tiki-taka style or is there some added je ne sais quoi? 

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32 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

@Neil Brock not sure if this has been asked/answered...

Do the preset tactic templates come with any under-the-hood functionality? I. E. If i select tika taka... Is it simply a set of roles and instructions conducive to recycling possession... Or is the recycling also aided by some under the hood (or increased/decreases mentality changes) linked to that style....

In essence... If i start building custom tactic from scratch and select exactly the same roles, duties and instructions... Will it play the same as choosing the tiki-taka style or is there some added je ne sais quoi? 

This is a good question, and I would guess (and hope) that there is nothing added 'under the hood' as you say.

I'm quite keen to build a custom tactic too, as I'd quite like to press high out of possession and then also play a bit of tiki taka while in possession. So I would hope the freedom to do that is possible if you get the right instructions and there's nothing hidden.

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Tiki Taka in essence was a high press tactic, at least the original Barca variant.

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1 minute ago, luka_ said:

Tiki Taka in essence was a high press tactic, at least the original Barca variant.

High up the pitch or have a gh intensity? On both i would say they were a byproduct rather than principle of tiki taka. 

Barca would work very close triangles and diamonds and didnt pass the ball over long distance... So when they lost the ball it was close to both the player who lost it and the other players in the diamond and triangle (and could therefore give the impression of a high intensity press). And barca rarely lost the ball in their own half, it was just when they got into the more congested areas when attacking that they lost it (which gives the impression of a high press). 

A high intensity high line press as fundamentals in a strategy (imo) is more like liverpool... Where they play at times almost like rugby up and unders! They knock it long then hound the ball very high up (altho im noticing it less the longer klopp is in charge and they are recycling the ball a bit more now... Perhaps why they arent looking quite as explosive this year). 

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It did not "give impression of a high press" , it was a high pressing tactic. 

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Those Stuttgart videos are frustrating. You’re not going to get a great representation of a tactical style if you use players who aren’t capable of pulling it off.

A better approach would have been to match the style to a team that plays that way (and therefore has the right players) rather than hoping for a mid-table German side to play like Man City. 

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27 minutes ago, howard moon said:

Those Stuttgart videos are frustrating. You’re not going to get a great representation of a tactical style if you use players who aren’t capable of pulling it off.

A better approach would have been to match the style to a team that plays that way (and therefore has the right players) rather than hoping for a mid-table German side to play like Man City. 

he just want to see the engine,& don't care who win.As ppl didn't have beta yet,& we want to see the ME.
we can do what we what to do after we got the beta.

for now,i just want to see how player run,how play defend in that tactic
 

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3 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

@Neil Brock not sure if this has been asked/answered...

Do the preset tactic templates come with any under-the-hood functionality? I. E. If i select tika taka... Is it simply a set of roles and instructions conducive to recycling possession... Or is the recycling also aided by some under the hood (or increased/decreases mentality changes) linked to that style....

In essence... If i start building custom tactic from scratch and select exactly the same roles, duties and instructions... Will it play the same as choosing the tiki-taka style or is there some added je ne sais quoi? 

There won't be an additional layer of mystery. It's "just" a template of roles, duties and team instructions, and those are only going to be intended as a start point for people to start tinkering with.

Looks like a lot of the tactical changes are there to make things easier so there's no sense at all in obscuring that with a "behind the scenes" layer of extra stuff.

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Just now, RTHerringbone said:

There won't be an additional layer of mystery. It's "just" a template of roles, duties and team instructions, and those are only going to be intended as a start point for people to start tinkering with.

Looks like a lot of the tactical changes are there to make things easier so there's no sense at all in obscuring that with a "behind the scenes" layer of extra stuff.

I assume that to be the case, but wouldnt blow my mind if there was some extra at play. 

I guess the fact it will have built in training links is one round-the-houses potential boost. I. E. Training set pieces for one gw gave a boost to set pieces that week didnt it? So by choosing tiki taka and feeding that into training that will give some kind of boost? Or will it just focus on tiki taka attributes? 

I admit im not one to sit and watch all the videos or live streams that offer more detail on each module so i may be misconstruing the idea that tactical style can potentially feed through to training, or how that is done.

Semi relevant to this line of thought.... So many users will start with the ready made template without a full understanding how it works... And will tweak it. Some tweaks will have no impact.. Some will have major impact. "tiki taka has slow tempo? I want my players to keep the ball and pass it short but quickly im setting tempo to maxed out oh and i want bpd instead of cb and wing backs on attack not support" <--- i give you moron #1... He shouldnt see tiki taka if he makes those tweaks... So wondered if there was a moron-defence mechanism under the hood to try and keep him in the realm of tiki taka... Like yes he can put high tempo, but under the hood, on tiki taka style, there is a built in limit for passing directness and tempo and risk etc. 

 

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Just now, westy8chimp said:

So many users will start with the ready made template without a full understanding how it works... And will tweak it. Some tweaks will have no impact.. Some will have major impact. "tiki taka has slow tempo? I want my players to keep the ball and pass it short but quickly im setting tempo to maxed out oh and i want bpd instead of cb and wing backs on attack not support" <--- i give you moron #1... He shouldnt see tiki taka if he makes those tweaks... So wondered if there was a moron-defence mechanism under the hood to try and keep him in the realm of tiki taka... Like yes he can put high tempo, but under the hood, on tiki taka style, there is a built in limit for passing directness and tempo and risk etc. 

 

All fair comments, but those users will probably have had no real idea of how to set up a tiki taka tactic, so this sets the basics in place for them as a starting point. Whether you improve or worsen the tactic is up to you. You could tweak it so much that it isn't quite as tiki taka as it should be. I suppose you could change it completely so it's not even tiki taka at all anymore.

As RT said, there's nothing under the hood.

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3 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

All fair comments, but those users will probably have had no real idea of how to set up a tiki taka tactic, so this sets the basics in place for them as a starting point. Whether you improve or worsen the tactic is up to you. You could tweak it so much that it isn't quite as tiki taka as it should be. I suppose you could change it completely so it's not even tiki taka at all anymore.

As RT said, there's nothing under the hood.

Good id hoped that would be the case. 

I might use tikitaka style then tweak it to be wing play and put it in tactic forum... Confuse people as much as i used to confuse dominos staff with my topping changes "ill have the hawaiin... Replace the ham, pineapple and mushroom with tandoori chicken, jalopenos and red onion" :D

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Just now, westy8chimp said:

"ill have the hawaiin... Replace the ham, pineapple and mushroom with tandoori chicken, jalopenos and red onion" :D

I should ban you for a month for replacing good toppings with worse ones.

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16 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

So wondered if there was a moron-defence mechanism under the hood to try and keep him in the realm of tiki taka

There is.  It's called rashidi.

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8 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Good id hoped that would be the case. 

I might use tikitaka style then tweak it to be wing play and put it in tactic forum... Confuse people as much as i used to confuse dominos staff with my topping changes "ill have the hawaiin... Replace the ham, pineapple and mushroom with tandoori chicken, jalopenos and red onion" :D

 

6 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

I should ban you for a month for replacing good toppings with worse ones.

When will FM add a feature that allows Serie A clubs to fire their manager for putting pineapple on pizza

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Just now, Weston said:

 

When will FM add a feature that allows Serie A clubs to fire their manager for putting pineapple on pizza

Never. Putting pineapple on pizza is encouraged.

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2 hours ago, howard moon said:

Those Stuttgart videos are frustrating. You’re not going to get a great representation of a tactical style if you use players who aren’t capable of pulling it off.

A better approach would have been to match the style to a team that plays that way (and therefore has the right players) rather than hoping for a mid-table German side to play like Man City. 

I can quite clearly see what the tactics are trying to produce. Whether or not it works in terms of results is irrelevant. He's just trying to show off the different playing styles which these videos are doing perfectly.

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1 hour ago, westy8chimp said:

I assume that to be the case, but wouldnt blow my mind if there was some extra at play. 

I guess the fact it will have built in training links is one round-the-houses potential boost. I. E. Training set pieces for one gw gave a boost to set pieces that week didnt it? So by choosing tiki taka and feeding that into training that will give some kind of boost? Or will it just focus on tiki taka attributes? 

I admit im not one to sit and watch all the videos or live streams that offer more detail on each module so i may be misconstruing the idea that tactical style can potentially feed through to training, or how that is done.

Semi relevant to this line of thought.... So many users will start with the ready made template without a full understanding how it works... And will tweak it. Some tweaks will have no impact.. Some will have major impact. "tiki taka has slow tempo? I want my players to keep the ball and pass it short but quickly im setting tempo to maxed out oh and i want bpd instead of cb and wing backs on attack not support" <--- i give you moron #1... He shouldnt see tiki taka if he makes those tweaks... So wondered if there was a moron-defence mechanism under the hood to try and keep him in the realm of tiki taka... Like yes he can put high tempo, but under the hood, on tiki taka style, there is a built in limit for passing directness and tempo and risk etc. 

 

No. If moron #1 wants to tweak tiki taka so much that it no longer resembles tiki taka that's his prerogative. It would make no sense for the game to limit you in the instructions you can set.

Edited by RocheBag

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19 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Never. Putting pineapple on pizza is encouraged.

Very true, peach is good too. My fav pizza tuna red onion peach pineapple + egg

Anyway these tikka tactics curious about the vertical

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On 16/10/2018 at 15:16, kpsia518 said:

look like tiki-taka too "defensive" ?:applause:

This worked pretty much exactly as you'd expect in real life, no? The team dominated possession completely, but against a compact Dortmund side looking to play on the counter, they couldn't find the incisive pass into the box. You need very creative players in the middle to find that kind of pass against a deep, compact defence, it's very difficult.

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1 minute ago, Jack Joyce said:

This worked pretty much exactly as you'd expect in real life, no? The team dominated possession completely, but against a compact Dortmund side looking to play on the counter, they couldn't find the incisive pass into the box. You need very creative players in the middle to find that kind of pass against a deep, compact defence, it's very difficult.

Like Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Ronaldinho maybe :D

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On 16/10/2018 at 19:17, kpsia518 said:

 

this is my no. 1 choice as a starting template :)

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7 minutes ago, krunccrni said:

this is my no. 1 choice as a starting template :)

Mine aswell am hoping to use both tiki-takas and switch between the two in games hoping to confuse the opposition

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47 minutes ago, toffee71 said:

Mine aswell am hoping to use both tiki-takas and switch between the two in games hoping to confuse the opposition

What? And your own players? :D

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2 minutes ago, Gegenklaus said:

What? And your own players? :D

Nah, I train my players hard on tactics, the roles will be the same just slightly adjusted lines.

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2 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

Never. Putting pineapple on pizza is encouraged.

I second that beats tuna and eggs...yuck

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10 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

I second that beats tuna and eggs...yuck

sorry it's off topic, but I can't let that go, have you tried it? Ham egg + pineapple is good too. I got into tuna onion egg pizza when i lived in spain and its one of my favourite taste sensations.

anyway tikitaka

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4 hours ago, kpsia518 said:

 

It's annoying because he has it on Key highlights , but every time he won the ball back his cbs just hoofed it the length of the park back to their cb's 

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4 hours ago, KingBuzzo15 said:

I'm going to try and create Sir Alex's "United Way". Probably a variant of the wing play tactic.

you need a fullback role to do both overlap & underlap,without tactical setting change.
still need to see if we can do that in ME

 

Edited by kpsia518

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10 ore fa, HUNT3R ha scritto:

I should ban you for a month for replacing good toppings with worse ones.

If ham, pineapple & mushrooms are considered good toppings to put over a pizza, I'd permaban myself rather than read this again :lol:

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1 hour ago, kpsia518 said:

the Catenaccio looking good
 

 

That might work with the inside/outside you want especially if you can get it close to a counter

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Absolutely delighted with support duty strikers deep defensive positioning. I won't need to play a striker in AM strata now. :thup:

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2 hours ago, pats said:

Absolutely delighted with support duty strikers deep defensive positioning. I won't need to play a striker in AM strata now. :thup:

I think it's related to line of engagement. You'll want to set that low.

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On October 17, 2018 at 08:11, kpsia518 said:

he just want to see the engine,& don't care who win.As ppl didn't have beta yet,& we want to see the ME.
we can do what we what to do after we got the beta.

for now,i just want to see how player run,how play defend in that tactic
 

The ME can't be seen in Key Highlights or Extended Highlights. 

Comprehensive or Full Highlights can show the ME the best. 

It's unfortunate that they allowed guys who are poor at tactics to review and show the Alpha. I would've loved to see Rashidi or Cleon review it instead. This year we finally got much needed improvements in tactics and training. Guys like them should've gotten early access instead.

It don't matter now. The Beta will be released soon and I will buy the game anyway. I'm addicted since 1993. But can't help but notice the poor decisions by SI again. They should have better FMers review and showcase their new edition of the game, especially when the improvements are in tactics and training.

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