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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2019 Feature Blogs: Revamped Tactics Module

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From very small sample I'm seeing a couple of tendencies from FM 18 still present in 19: 1) high number of shots 2) high number of long shots as a result of attacking throw ins (throw in-horizontal pass-shot from edge of the box). They seem to score quite a few goals this way.

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On the other hand I like how direct free kicks seem much more dangerous and realistic now, and individual skills of more gifted players also look more evident and effective.

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Just a shame that in that still the keeper seems to be charging out of the box into the space in front of him.

Persoonally I was not impressed with what I saw in the live stream in respect if high counter press but hopefully that’s more down to not having the players to employ that type of tactical approach & not using correct training to embed the approach in the player’s natural tendencies.

Remain hopeful but leaning towards pessimistic.

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Do we have a 'default' option for defensive width? Because I want to defend according to attacking team and don't want to adjust defensive width every match.

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Just now, Barside said:

Just a shame that in that still the keeper seems to be charging out of the box into the space in front of him.

Persoonally I was not impressed with what I saw in the live stream in respect if high counter press but hopefully that’s more down to not having the players to employ that type of tactical approach & not using correct training to embed the approach in the player’s natural tendencies.

Remain hopeful but leaning towards pessimistic.

keeper charging out of the box into the space in front of him,that is because he been given SK role.& i like this so much.

about the high counter press in live stream,look like the pressing is too soft to me

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1 hour ago, kpsia518 said:

1706611281_skillfm1229.thumb.jpg.657c83664cb02c1f57c9fed91178a0a1.jpg

CB goto side line

Does this mean the half-back will actually work now. 

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2 minutes ago, pats said:

Do we have a 'default' option for defensive width? Because I want to defend according to attacking team and don't want to adjust defensive width every match.

of course you have

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1 minute ago, Amarante said:

Does this mean the half-back will actually work now. 

we still not see they use HB yet,still unknown about that

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10 minutes ago, kpsia518 said:

keeper charging out of the box into the space in front of him,that is because he been given SK role.& i like this so much.

about the high counter press in live stream,look like the pressing is too soft to me

Not when combined with distribute to CB’s though, who is most likely better with the ball at their feet, keeper or outfield player?

Obviously the play is situational which is never shown in a still image but it is a concern.

As for the role of SK it should in general be a keeper willing & able to come out of the box to take control of the ball, not run out of the box with the ball, that’s just my preference though.

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1 minute ago, Barside said:

Not when combined with distribute to CB,s though, who is most likely better with the ball at their feet, keeper or outfield player?

Obviously the play is situational which is never shown in a still image but it is a concern.

i think its down to tactic setting

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2 hours ago, kpsia518 said:

1706611281_skillfm1229.thumb.jpg.657c83664cb02c1f57c9fed91178a0a1.jpg

CB goto side line

What setting does that?

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5 minutes ago, Scoham said:

What setting does that?

its only happen in FM19,& only when AI pressing superhigh.

CB will automatic do that,when AI pressing superhigh.No need any setting

Edited by kpsia518

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10 minutes ago, kpsia518 said:

its only happen in FM19,& only when AI pressing superhigh.

CB will automatic do that,when AI pressing superhigh.No need any setting

Where has this been confirmed by SI?

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8 minutes ago, Barside said:

Where has this been confirmed by SI?

if you watch all the livestream,about 7~8 hour last night + today,you will learn that.

when AI not pressing high,CB will not sitting like that.

Edited by kpsia518

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Well that's somewhat disappointing to read, stil lsome work for SI to do on play out of the back starting position.

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How do we distribute the mentality in a way that defenders can have ultra defensive mentality whilst strikers have ultra attacking mentality? (Just like the structure/h. structured shape in previous FMs) Will the combination of defensive line + line of engagement do that?

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7 minutes ago, Barside said:

Well that's somewhat disappointing to read, stil lsome work for SI to do on play out of the back starting position.

article_5760195456139264.png

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24 minutes ago, kpsia518 said:

article_5760195456139264.png


i think its a tactical error in livestream's tactic.
maybe if they try a DLP in midfield,keeper will not charging out of the box into the space in front of him.

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The Sweeper Keeper should be able to come out of his box, it always depends on what settings he has tho. Support and attack your telling him to come out of the box with the ball and play passes to launch counter attacks. 

 

If you set the GK to distribute to the CB then he wont come out of the box and distribute. 

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526065582_fmtiki-takastyle.thumb.png.463cc086e7085d0075edc3e49639403c.png551236128_fmcontrolpossessionstyle.thumb.png.5ccf02f46bfffb7a047c2bf9bd8c2572.png1219962643_fmverticaltiki-takastyle.thumb.png.332fe5f8b4e6966538f9fcbe00dc615b.png

I was able to capture these images from the live stream. They kind of browsed over the different pre-set tactical styles and these are the 3 i'm interested in - because of personal preference and curiosity of the differences.

It's interesting that Vertical Tiki-Taka has Balanced Mentality, while standard Tiki-Taka has Positive Mentality. I would've expected it to be flipped.

I also wonder about Be More Expressive instruction - now that we do not have Roam From Position as TI, does being more expressive allow players freedom of movement as well? Can we set individual creative freedom again? Individual roaming?

I've been using a tiki-taka possession tactic in my last FM18 save while waiting for FM19 Beta release and I tried updating it to include all the available TIs I could to replicate the FM19 version of the preset style. I was already using some of the instructions but I added some more to see what happens:

SK-S

2 CWB-S

2 BPD-D

HB-D or DLP-D

DLP-S or RPM

AP-A (roam)

2 IF-S (get forward, stay wider)

SS-A (roam)

I was using Control/Very Fluid with Shorter Passing, Retain Possession, Play Out Of Defense, Higher D-Line, Close Down More, Prevent Short GK Distribution, Low Crosses, Be More Disciplined. My SK-Support had already instructions to Distribute to CBs (it changes to my DM when playing vs 2 STs) and Slow Pace Down. So I added Dribble Less, Work Ball Into Box, Much Higher D-Line, Play Narrower, Be More Expressive and Much Lower Tempo.

I was already playing well and winning but those changes have had a nice improvement effect on my tactic - won my next 3 games 4-0 (home), 5-0 (away) and 6-1 (away) - and team play was spectacular. Normally I wouldn't go for so many TIs but I can see the logic in them when going for a specific style like Tiki-Taka. I'm still personally a little unsure in using Lower Tempo and such a High D-line and probably will be adjusting those. But if it worked so well in FM18, I'm excited to see it in FM19 with better tactical module and better ME hopefully. Even better is the fact that we can now train the team and the players in the style we play.

Now all I need is improved False 9 role for ST (drop even deeper for build up then charge in the penalty area, shoot less, don't move into channels) and HB in Back 4 working properly (CBs splitting nicely), then I will be on 7th heaven.:D

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983415503_fmgegenpressstyle.thumb.png.a41a9092a35f0b31bcf458008382f0be.png

And this is the Gegenpress style. This what they have been using on the live stream and it looks good on the 3d pitch.

I'm starting to form my idea what I will try out first and I think I can see myself ending up for somewhat of a hybrid style - Tiki-Taka in possession, Gegenpress during the other 2 phases of play.

Interesting note: The first four playing styles from the top are all recommended with 4141 DM Wide formation and 4231 Wide formation. 4123 DM Wide is not among the 3 top recommended formations for any of the styles. 

 

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1 hour ago, kpsia518 said:

1118392455_FM19ROUTEONE.thumb.jpg.674041d1ee92923042af716cc3571ebe.jpg

1296859109_FM19C.thumb.jpg.a390252d3a62ed85b95cb88e5db11dc9.jpg

i like this one more..:applause:

Thanks for these screenshots. Any screenshots of 'Direct Counter-Attack' style?

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5 hours ago, yonko said:

983415503_fmgegenpressstyle.thumb.png.a41a9092a35f0b31bcf458008382f0be.png

And this is the Gegenpress style. This what they have been using on the live stream and it looks good on the 3d pitch.

I'm starting to form my idea what I will try out first and I think I can see myself ending up for somewhat of a hybrid style - Tiki-Taka in possession, Gegenpress during the other 2 phases of play.

Interesting note: The first four playing styles from the top are all recommended with 4141 DM Wide formation and 4231 Wide formation. 4123 DM Wide is not among the 3 top recommended formations for any of the styles. 

 

Maybe it is some sort of a rename? I have seen a few times in FM18 sides who used 4-1-4-1 DM Wide which actually turned out to be 4-1-2-3.

Edited by Armistice

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5 hours ago, yonko said:

Interesting note: The first four playing styles from the top are all recommended with 4141 DM Wide formation and 4231 Wide formation. 4123 DM Wide is not among the 3 top recommended formations for any of the styles. 

 

7 minutes ago, Armistice said:

Maybe it is some sort of a rename? I have seen a few times in FM18 sides who used 4-1-4-1 DM Wide which actually turned out to be 4-1-2-3.

Yeh it might be nothing more than a naming convention.  That screenshot looks like AML/R are used.  Something to look at when the open Beta hits and raise if needed :thup:.

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When they clicked on the 4-1-4-1 formation on stream it turned out to actually be the 4-1-2-3 dm wide. 

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11 hours ago, yonko said:

 

 

I'm starting to form my idea what I will try out first and I think I can see myself ending up for somewhat of a hybrid style - Tiki-Taka in possession, Gegenpress during the other 2 phases of play.

 

 

Probably more important to find out if you have the playing personnel to cope with that first. This is the single biggest thing that's going to cause mass seethe on the feedback thread this year, mark my words. 

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7 hours ago, Armistice said:

Maybe it is some sort of a rename? I have seen a few times in FM18 sides who used 4-1-4-1 DM Wide which actually turned out to be 4-1-2-3.

 

7 hours ago, herne79 said:

 

Yeh it might be nothing more than a naming convention.  That screenshot looks like AML/R are used.  Something to look at when the open Beta hits and raise if needed :thup:.

 

3 hours ago, Sticx said:

When they clicked on the 4-1-4-1 formation on stream it turned out to actually be the 4-1-2-3 dm wide. 

After watching the live stream further I saw that the formation has been renamed. So now 4141 DM Wide looks to be the former 4123 DM Wide. Keep in mind that what we are seeing now is the Alpha version of the game, so this might change for the Beta or full release.

Not that big of a deal really, I was just curious and intrigued.

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Probably more important to find out if you have the playing personnel to cope with that first. This is the single biggest thing that's going to cause mass seethe on the feedback thread this year, mark my words. 

Oh I will have the personnel, no doubt. My first couple of saves are always with Barca and Liverpool. After that I plan on saves with young and talented teams - Ajax, Lyon, Dortmund, Leverkusen, Monaco, Benfica. I also plan to try and revive a giant - AC Milan. I only play with top division teams, so.....I'll be ok.:D

But even if one is playing lower divisions/levels, the attributes the players need are relative to the level/league you are playing. And as you climb up you will gradually update your players via transfers or develop them via training.

This year training looks more linked to tactics and player development will be even more interesting. These are the things I care the most about - tactics, training and ME.

I don't care to think what people will have problems with tactically. They will figure it out. If not....it's not for everyone, you know.....just like not every former player makes a good manager IRL.

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2 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Probably more important to find out if you have the playing personnel to cope with that first. This is the single biggest thing that's going to cause mass seethe on the feedback thread this year, mark my words. 

I'm more concerned that it'll go the other way - gegenpress, tiki taka etc being too effective in the lower leagues.

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Whilst I love the idea of templates I do wonder how much easier it will make the game. It feels like it’s how we used to download a preset tactic in older versions to make the game easier. 

Being Barcelona, for example, on past versions meant you still had to think about tactics and it was possible to struggle (certainly in the early seasons) if you didn’t get the style/tactics right. With these templates I’m guessing you just select one of the presets like tiki-taka and you’re laughing.

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32 minutes ago, DP said:

Whilst I love the idea of templates I do wonder how much easier it will make the game. It feels like it’s how we used to download a preset tactic in older versions to make the game easier. 

Being Barcelona, for example, on past versions meant you still had to think about tactics and it was possible to struggle (certainly in the early seasons) if you didn’t get the style/tactics right. With these templates I’m guessing you just select one of the presets like tiki-taka and you’re laughing.

I couldn’t care less if they are too effective for those who stick to the templates so long as they have the right 11 players to fit the system, I see them as catering for the casual player who tends to compete 2 or 3 seasons at the same club before starting a new save. What would be disappointing is if element a of the ME code has been tweaked in ways that favours these specific templates, I don’t think PaulC & his team would deliberately do this but months of testing feedback on template a, b or c not producing positive result could inadvertently see that happen without anyone realising the accumulative effects of each small change to alter AI behaviour has unbalanced the ME towards the templates.

Your point about download tactics does bring up one problem that SI will face, templates are likely to be used by folk who are less confident in creating their own tactics & in many cases may not understand the nuances of that tactic so when they encounter periods of not winning due  to poor management elsewhere there will probably rage at SI for putting  broken tactics into the game that are designed to fail to rubberband in favour of the AI.

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2 hours ago, Barside said:

I couldn’t care less if they are too effective for those who stick to the templates so long as they have the right 11 players to fit the system, I see them as catering for the casual player who tends to compete 2 or 3 seasons at the same club before starting a new save. What would be disappointing is if element a of the ME code has been tweaked in ways that favours these specific templates, I don’t think PaulC & his team would deliberately do this but months of testing feedback on template a, b or c not producing positive result could inadvertently see that happen without anyone realising the accumulative effects of each small change to alter AI behaviour has unbalanced the ME towards the templates.

Your point about download tactics does bring up one problem that SI will face, templates are likely to be used by folk who are less confident in creating their own tactics & in many cases may not understand the nuances of that tactic so when they encounter periods of not winning due  to poor management elsewhere there will probably rage at SI for putting  broken tactics into the game that are designed to fail to rubberband in favour of the AI.

Play is being cordoned into streams not just with templates but with locked player instructions. The affect it has is twofold:

- Less variety gets tested, which just by inertia leads to some of the issues you raised above. The more you streamline the input, the weaker the ME will get in my opinion, exemplified by stuff like 3 strikers destroying it in 2018. 

- You also stray away from what has made FM so great. The freedom to define things yourself makes it difficult for the coders I guess.

Edited by pauly15

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6 hours ago, DP said:

Whilst I love the idea of templates I do wonder how much easier it will make the game. It feels like it’s how we used to download a preset tactic in older versions to make the game easier. 

Being Barcelona, for example, on past versions meant you still had to think about tactics and it was possible to struggle (certainly in the early seasons) if you didn’t get the style/tactics right. With these templates I’m guessing you just select one of the presets like tiki-taka and you’re laughing.

No you still have to find balance between roles & duties. Afaik templates only set up specific TIs.

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See the templates as a starting point toward building a tactic in that style. It's not going to be perfect (so tweaks will likely be needed) and you'll still need the players to pull it off. If you're trying to gegen press Man City with the weakest team in the league, don't expect it to necessarily work at all.

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51 minutes ago, Armistice said:

No you still have to find balance between roles & duties. Afaik templates only set up specific TIs.

I’m sure I heard roles mentioned as being included and I assume that includes duties as well.

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1 hour ago, Armistice said:

No you still have to find balance between roles & duties. Afaik templates only set up specific TIs.

Pretty sure it sets the roles and duties too for each player...

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54 minutes ago, DP said:

Pretty sure it sets the roles and duties too for each player...

When you choose a template afaik it recommends appropriate formations - for style with wingers it recommends formations that have wingers. The recommended formation chosen then suggests roles and duties which you can then change. Once beta released we will know for sure......

Edited by mhaffy

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It probably will set the roles and duties but I imagine you can customise them once you've set it up and TBH I will probably want to do that if I have a midfielder I wanna get more out of etc.

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8 hours ago, DP said:

Whilst I love the idea of templates I do wonder how much easier it will make the game. It feels like it’s how we used to download a preset tactic in older versions to make the game easier. 

The templates are not designed to be finished articles which you simply plug and play and win.

They're a starting point and guide.  In previous FMs we were given a tactical 1000 piece jigsaw without a picture and told to get on with it.  These templates are giving us an out of focus picture - it'll help us understand how it might be possible to achieve a certain tactical style but the tactic itself may need some tweaking depending on which team you are playing.  So expect to do more tweaking if trying to play tiki taka at Macclesfield compared to Barcelona for example.

As one of the Tactics forum mods I see almost daily the requests for help from people dedicating silly amounts of time trying (and failing) to achieve a certain style of football - or just plain win.  Not because they're dumb or not putting in the effort, but because it can be a bit of a minefield trying to understand how everything ties together.  They have that jigsaw without a picture.  From that perspective I welcome these templates - they give these people a starting point to help them understand the picture.

So long as it's understood these are starting points, not finished products and therefore may require some tweaking, and some templates may be more suitable for some teams than others.  Otherwise we'll soon see posts along the lines of "this tiki taka is rubbish, can't win a thing and am facing the sack at Macclesfield".

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3 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Otherwise we'll soon see posts along the lines of "this tiki taka is rubbish, can't win a thing and am facing the sack at Macclesfield".

I'd still bet that this will be posted within a month of release...

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On 14/10/2018 at 07:21, kpsia518 said:

1118392455_FM19ROUTEONE.thumb.jpg.674041d1ee92923042af716cc3571ebe.jpg

1296859109_FM19C.thumb.jpg.a390252d3a62ed85b95cb88e5db11dc9.jpg

i like this one more..:applause:

I can't wait to develop my own catenaccio. Guess I'll start of with the default preset and work my way from there. I will look to get me some 1-0 wins :)

I'm very curious to see how the libero works with a flat back 5. I hope they took a look at how the remaining CBs behave when the libero and FBs push higher up in attack. I don't want them to spread too wide like they've done in previous years. Way to easy for the opposition to play a ball to a central unmarked striker.

 

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1 hour ago, herne79 said:

The templates are not designed to be finished articles which you simply plug and play and win.

They're a starting point and guide.  In previous FMs we were given a tactical 1000 piece jigsaw without a picture and told to get on with it.  These templates are giving us an out of focus picture - it'll help us understand how it might be possible to achieve a certain tactical style but the tactic itself may need some tweaking depending on which team you are playing.  So expect to do more tweaking if trying to play tiki taka at Macclesfield compared to Barcelona for example.

As one of the Tactics forum mods I see almost daily the requests for help from people dedicating silly amounts of time trying (and failing) to achieve a certain style of football - or just plain win.  Not because they're dumb or not putting in the effort, but because it can be a bit of a minefield trying to understand how everything ties together.  They have that jigsaw without a picture.  From that perspective I welcome these templates - they give these people a starting point to help them understand the picture.

So long as it's understood these are starting points, not finished products and therefore may require some tweaking, and some templates may be more suitable for some teams than others.  Otherwise we'll soon see posts along the lines of "this tiki taka is rubbish, can't win a thing and am facing the sack at Macclesfield".

When you say ‘not the finished article’ they do seem to have a lot of detail in them with regards to TI. I get your point about applying the ‘wrong’ one to a team that doesn’t have the personnel but I guess you can select ‘wing play’ or maybe even ‘catenaccio’ with a struggling team and potentially see some success earlier than having to think about the combinations of TI and how they work together, like in previous versions.

 

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5 minutes ago, DP said:

When you say ‘not the finished article’ they do seem to have a lot of detail in them with regards to TI.

Yup they do because they're trying to demonstrate one way of how to achieve a certain style of play - tiki taka, gegenpress, whatever.  The slightly out of focus pictures on the jigsaw boxes.  How good we as managers then are at completing those pictures will be down to how we tweak those templates (if needed) depending on which team we use or how matches play out :thup:.

Hopefully the idea that these are starting points rather than finished plug and play tactics that are auto-win features will be made clear in game.

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1 hour ago, XaW said:

I'd still bet that this will be posted within a month of release...

You’re giving it a month? That’s very generous.

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I've not even played the game but already despise the word 'Gegenpress'.

The sooner teams figure out a consistent way to beat a high press, the sooner it can be banished from the football lexicon.

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