Level of Discipline Attribute

[borivoje213]

I'm about 7 years into my save and my LoD attribute is still only 7.  The bar in my profile that states how likely I am to come down on anyone who steps out of line is at max and my attempts to discipline players have been widely successful. 

I would have thought it would go up by now.  Any particular way to get it to increase?  It's holding my coaching ability back a little bit.  I'd be on 5* otherwise.

[WorcesterLegend]

Heh at least you aren't stuck in 1 as me, anyway, thats one of the hardest stats to increase, you habe to be a mourinho like manager and on top of that be a ogre in like all, want a new contract? NO!, you played at 6.7? 2 WEEKS FINE!, you want to play for barcelona? GO TRAIN WITH THE YOUNG GUYS!! You promised to be in champions league next season? IT WAS A LIE!

 

After all of that and after half of the squad make pressure and you are now unemployed, congratulations! You have increased your level of discipline by 1 point c:

 

...or at least that the only way i have seem on the forums, i don' have the balls to try that and get sacked and throw 20 seasons to the trash

Edited September 24, 2018 by WorcesterLegend

[borivoje213]

perfect response. thanks!

[FrazT]

As long as you are reacting to discipline problems that you are given and are not being too lenient, I would not worry too much about the rating- it will go up with time.

[herne79]

Manager attributes increasing seemingly randomly and completely out of our control is something I'd like to see changed and have raised a new feature request.  The current system feels pretty archaic and can be immersion breaking.

 

[borivoje213]

tbh I forgotten/hadn't acknoledged how many times I'd changed up training , sold players or offered new contracts. so on the whole it's probably quite fair. personally I think attributes should remain reflection of whether coaching licences have been completed and how successfully we've performed rather than individually allocated. I feel already feel somewhat unsatisfied having to allocate my own attributes at the start of the game. 

it's far too easy to make yourself the near perfect coach in one specific area. and I don't like the idea of effectively choosing how harsh the attribute masking etc is by having player knowledge attributes. I'm not even sure a visible LoD attribute is even necessary. it's only relevant to how players are calculated to respond to you. in real life you just judge yourself how you wish to deal with individuals and your reputation comes from that, you don't look at a number then think about it, you do it based on previous experience. that number should be hidden just to help the game mechanic. adaptability is also an odd one. you either give it to yourself if you want to switch leagues at some point, or save your points for elsewhere by leaving it at 1. effectively choosing how easy/difficult it would be to get/perform a job somewhere else.

not a fan. it's football manager not football coach. I understand certain mangers get involved on the training field in real life. but it's also true that FM has very little to do with coaching at all. player development and team training in the practical sense, IE how its implemented in the game has nothing to do with coaching, it's all a passive system that happens in the background based on limited options.

not a fan of the manager attributes side of things at all. for npc it's necessary. but I don't think it should be used for us.

Edited September 24, 2018 by borivoje213

[westy8chimp]

I hate the manager setup. It's a difficulty setting...but it doesnt make sense.

In a shoot-em-up game you increase the difficulty as you get better because you learn to aim quicker and use better cover etc... So you can cope with stronger AI. 

In FM it's not like setting your attributes to 1 in everything means you can control the outcomes through better management i.e. Picking the right response to media questions or picking better tactics. By having 1 in determination it will simply hard code that the board is less likely to accept your board requests. 

[Svenc]

2 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

I hate the manager setup. It's a difficulty setting...but it doesnt make sense.

In a shoot-em-up game you increase the difficulty as you get better because you learn to aim quicker and use better cover etc... So you can cope with stronger AI. 

In FM it's not like setting your attributes to 1 in everything means you can control the outcomes through better management i.e. Picking the right response to media questions or picking better tactics. By having 1 in determination it will simply hard code that the board is less likely to accept your board requests. 

A better comparison would be the D20 system in a pen&paper RPG -- and its various implementations in computer RPGs (Baldur's Gate, Pillars Of Eternity, Tyranny, etc. etc pp). It doesn't hard-code. It increases/decreases the chance that the board/player/whatever reacts in a positive way to your actions. In the traditional D20 system, by 5% with each point of progression. You even level up in FM as you go. And in a sense, FM has always been a role-playing game, just narrowed down to a very specific job. This applies to AI too, who are each given all kinds of attributes. The Maths in FM may work differently, of course.

It has its downsides for sure. The flipside of games that are entirelly about a player's skill vs attributes is that: Once you "get better", you won't be much able to simulate and recreate that experience anymore of an unproven manager taking jobs that may be quite adventurous for his. Once you know how to "handle" Messi via the game's inherent mechanics, it won't matter an iota whether you are Guardiola returning to Camp Nou or an English bloke they've never heard much of in Spain, let alone Messi. I think there was a great thread somewhere showing how you can use the attribute system to create different manager personalities (the negotionably skilled wheeler dealer; the highly adaptable wanderer; the man management expert, etc. etc) If you ask me, it's a system that should be more expanded upon (also to diversify AI management) -- unless scrapped entirelly.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Svenc

[MrPompey]

On 24/09/2018 at 18:31, borivoje213 said:

tbh I forgotten/hadn't acknoledged how many times I'd changed up training , sold players or offered new contracts. so on the whole it's probably quite fair. personally I think attributes should remain reflection of whether coaching licences have been completed and how successfully we've performed rather than individually allocated. I feel already feel somewhat unsatisfied having to allocate my own attributes at the start of the game. 

it's far too easy to make yourself the near perfect coach in one specific area. and I don't like the idea of effectively choosing how harsh the attribute masking etc is by having player knowledge attributes. I'm not even sure a visible LoD attribute is even necessary. it's only relevant to how players are calculated to respond to you. in real life you just judge yourself how you wish to deal with individuals and your reputation comes from that, you don't look at a number then think about it, you do it based on previous experience. that number should be hidden just to help the game mechanic. adaptability is also an odd one. you either give it to yourself if you want to switch leagues at some point, or save your points for elsewhere by leaving it at 1. effectively choosing how easy/difficult it would be to get/perform a job somewhere else.

not a fan. it's football manager not football coach. I understand certain mangers get involved on the training field in real life. but it's also true that FM has very little to do with coaching at all. player development and team training in the practical sense, IE how its implemented in the game has nothing to do with coaching, it's all a passive system that happens in the background based on limited options.

not a fan of the manager attributes side of things at all. for npc it's necessary. but I don't think it should be used for us.

use auto setting  attribute which will base them on the size of the club you manage

[borivoje213]

On 27/09/2018 at 07:05, MrPompey said:

use auto setting  attribute which will base them on the size of the club you manage

I'm aware of this setting.  But since the option is there to customise my own that's what I tend to do.

I'm just saying it's not a feature I necessarily agree with.  I agree with auto-filling it even less as I don't feel the need for a human manager to have visible attributes in the first place.

Edited October 1, 2018 by borivoje213

[MrPompey]

@borivoje213 what would be your suggestion of an alternative

[borivoje213]

As far as the mental attributes go it's hard to say, it becomes convoluted as some of them are directly linked to coaching ability which is completely abstract as there's no actual coaching that happens in the game, just passive development of numbers through a series of options.  The other problem is as a player of the game I have no idea how many, probably countless instances, where those attributes are generating results for various interactions.  

But if I were to take them at face value: (please keep in mind that it's 0530 in the morning here and I'm trying to keep myself awake for the next 3 hours)

The coaching attributes for the manager would initially be set - hidden - as a default value for whatever status/level club you manage initially.  Those stats would grow based on your success in the game.  They would deteriorate at a specified parachute rate.  So for instance that way if you did get relegated or sacked you wouldn't suddenly become a much worse coach/lose licences over night.  This way you'd be able to choose whether you would focus on one area of training or spread yourself thin, but either way you would be equally adept depending on what it was you wanted to coach.  Or perhaps have to choose one specific coaching specialisation.

Mental stats wise I'd have them hidden and either set at a default value, or as with LoD rise and fall based on success/failure/behaviour.  Since most of them practically function as a difficulty level.  Currently the only interest I have in the mental attributes is how good a coach I want to be in the game.  I have no interest in the game's opinion of me as a person.  For instance IRL there is a probability of how people are going to react to my authority, I don't know this probability, like a crazy person I just wing it depending on who I'm talking to and how I think it'll go down based on experience.

99% of other users would probably hate it, but you can't please everyone 

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by borivoje213

[Juan Fonswaka Sanchez]

Mine just hit 21?

 

[Bigpole]

17 minutes ago, Juan Fonswaka Sanchez said:

Mine just hit 21?

 

It's a known bug.