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I`m not enjoying this game anymore. I tried 100 different saves and my team always does super bad. I deleted the game many times but I`m always coming  back in hope of finally creating a working tactics, but again I fail horribly. I read TONS of guides, but nothing is helping, creating tactics in this game is very confusing and doesn`t make sense some times. I don`t think I will buy FM 19 if it doesn`t become more beginner friendly and easier.

 

I now decided to try to create a decent tactic with Arsenal. I picked 4-2-3-1 DM formation with just Play out of defense instruction with Standard mentality and Flexible team shape.

 

Roles and duties:

20180909233743_1.thumb.jpg.bccad8228bc8a4bd069fe5510a23b258.jpg

 

What am I doing wrong? In the friendlies we did pretty good, we also won Community shield against Chelsea, but when the league started it just went downhill. Barely any good chances, terrible finishing, terrible passing, terrible decision making, and a lot of unecessary long shots. I mean I only played 4 league matches but it was enough to see that we are playing really bad. 

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Defensively you are taking some serious risks at times.  You have two wingbacks, and a volante, which is another role that is more attacking in certain situations.  At certain times you are only going to have your DM to help out your centerbacks when you lose the ball.  I would change Xhaka's role to a more conservative support role.  Instead of two inside forwards, you might use one winger instead and have the fullback on his side use a more conservative role to help out in defense.

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Sorry to hear that you're having such a rough time with the game, here are my observations on the tactic and my opinion on potential solutions which hopefully you find helpful.

Issues

1) All the players in your front 4 are too like-minded and will look to attack the same space. The AF wants to dribble into the channels in between the opposition fullbacks and central defenders but so does the Trequartista and the Inside Forwards. The problem with this is that who is drawing the defenders out of position in order to open up the channels? All your front 4 want to run at the defenders.

2) I can understand you starting with a Standard mentality and Flexible shape but don't see why you have selected the TI 'Play Out Of Defence'. Do you know precisely what this TI does?

3) I agree with what Analog said. When your attacks break down high up the pitch which will be often given that everyone is taking high risks by trying to dribble with the ball you are going to be left incredibly exposed to the counter-attack. 

4) Your team is operating in 2 distinct blocks (back 6 and front 4) with only 1 link between them which is the SV. This is further exacerbated by the use of the 'Play Out Of Defence' TI which shortens the passing length.

Solutions

1) Ignoring the AMC for a minute and just thinking about your front 3 (ST, AML & AMR). You need to distribute the responsibilities better among them. I feel you need to have a holding player, a creative player and a runner. A holding player (a player with the PI of Hold Up Ball) is important as it buys time which is needed in order to allow the players around him to make runs or find space to receive a pass. It should also help in cutting down the amount of poor attacking play you are observing as you will tend to build attacks more patiently and wait for a better opportunity instead of forcing the issue which leads to players rushing and making poorer decisions. 

You can also combine the different roles in the front 3 if your players are capable. For example, the IF(S) is both a runner and creator but there must be a holding player in there even if it means adding a PI to a player. In the end, what you want to end up with is a number 10 and number 9 partnership. How you go about doing that is entirely up to you.

2) I would take off the TI as in my opinion you need the ability of your deeper players to play more direct passes in such a top-heavy system given the distances between them on the pitch. When I look at the impact of the TI in the tactic creator it reduces the passing length for all the players.

3) The basis for a 4-2-3-1 is the double pivot. Both of the roles in your DM need to be more conservative which makes the SV a poor choice as he will make runs from deep all the way up into the opposition box which you don't need as you have 4 players who are ahead of him. You do need him to be the link man between your defensive 6 and front 4 but you don't need another presence in the box. If your AMC was more defensively minded maybe it could work but with a Trequartista in front of him, the midfield 3 is too attacking in nature.

4) Much like the front 3, the midfield 3 also needs to cover all the same responsibilities. As it stands your DM(D) is your holding player, the SV(S) is your runner and your T(A) is a creator. Therefore you have distributed all the responsibilities but the problem you have is that they don't link up very well given their separation on the pitch. Using a Trequartista in AMC is like playing another No. 9 type striker hence the description where it states that he must be the main outlet when attacking. As a result of all this, I'd change the role of the SV while retaining the duty. I'd also change the role of the AMC and put him on a support duty while keeping him as a creative type player. That way the AMC will drop deep looking for the ball and help out defensively by shielding the two DMs. I suggest this as you are playing as Arsenal and probably value Ozil's creative ability more than say Xhaka's.

I'd advise that you continue to read guides but use them to inform your decisions rather than make them for you. Ultimately, the only way to learn is trial and error, sometimes you're going fail but provided you learn from it you'll improve from the experience. 

Good luck.

Edited by pheelf

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13 hours ago, zigaliro said:

I`m not enjoying this game anymore. I tried 100 different saves and my team always does super bad. I deleted the game many times but I`m always coming  back in hope of finally creating a working tactics, but again I fail horribly. I read TONS of guides, but nothing is helping, creating tactics in this game is very confusing and doesn`t make sense some times. I don`t think I will buy FM 19 if it doesn`t become more beginner friendly and easier.

 

I now decided to try to create a decent tactic with Arsenal. I picked 4-2-3-1 DM formation with just Play out of defense instruction with Standard mentality and Flexible team shape.

 

Roles and duties:

20180909233743_1.thumb.jpg.bccad8228bc8a4bd069fe5510a23b258.jpg

 

What am I doing wrong? In the friendlies we did pretty good, we also won Community shield against Chelsea, but when the league started it just went downhill. Barely any good chances, terrible finishing, terrible passing, terrible decision making, and a lot of unecessary long shots. I mean I only played 4 league matches but it was enough to see that we are playing really bad. 

I've been exactly where you are right now it's terrible i know it but don't give up you'll eventually get it right and it'll feel amazing trust me. I'm not a pro myself but i can help you if you tell me a couple of things. 1st of all, How are you suffering goals? Is it from counter attacks, trough balls, crossing, shots from a far what is it ?

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Let's go even more basic than the tactics here. There is one question (well, two) that you should ask yourself when you are starting to build a tactic: what type of football do you want to play?

You can choose possession, counter attacking, direct, Pulisball, bus parking, anything. You absolutely need to have a totally solid idea for what you want to actually do before you start doing it. Otherwise, how do you know what roles, duties, etc you actually want? The second question, which for Arsenal should not be a problem, is: Can my players actually play like this. I mean, if you start in the lower leagues you are probably not going to play like Barcelona.

From your OP, I actually get no sense of how you want to play. I assume you have an idea, because all football fans have a way they want to play. So can you elaborate a little on what you actually want to do. Then it is so much easier to try to help you translate this into an FM tactic. I can guess you are aiming for something based around the passing game, based on the TI? In fact, I am willing to bet you added this TI because you saw a lot of long balls up from the defense towards the strikers which looked aimless and did not fit how you wanted to play.

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17 hours ago, zigaliro said:
17 hours ago, zigaliro said:

Roles and duties:

20180909233743_1.thumb.jpg.bccad8228bc8a4bd069fe5510a23b258.jpg

 

Some of your roles/duties seem a bit problematic to me. If I played with this 4-2-3-1DM on Standard mentality with a team like Arsenal, it would probably look more or less like this (apart from player selection, which is a different topic):

DLF(a)

IF(a)         AP(s)           W(s)

 

DM(d)      SV(a)

WB(s)   DC(d)   DC(co)   IWB(d)    

SK(s)

When playing against better teams, some of these would be altered. As for team shape... well, maybe Fluid, though Flexible is also not a bad idea. If you want an explanation on roles/duties, don't hesitate to ask.

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Okay I made couple of changes based on the suggestions.

SV(s) to DLP(s)

left WB to FB(s)

left IF to W(a)

AF to CF(a)

T to AP(s)

Removed play out of defense

 

I played 5 matches so far, 3 draws and 2 wins, but basicly same old story. Still not a lot of quality chances, finishing is still absolutely terrible and our pass percentage is usually not that great. Only 70%-80%. We are currently sitting in 12th place.

 

What else should I change? i`m lost.

Edited by zigaliro

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I haven't played as Arsenal on FM in years, but why are you playing Chambers as your attacking WB in the first picture?  What's his crossing, pace, etc. like? 

 

What about this?

 

 Laca AF(A)

Auba IF(A)      Mesut AP(S)          Mikhi W(S)

Jack DLP(S)  Elneney A(D) or DM(D)

Nacho FB(S)  Kos BPD? Mustafi CD(D) Hector WB(A)

 

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@Analog brings up a good point - player selection. Looking at your team selection in the OP, you only have 1 real goal scorer to rely on. Your roles and duties say the same thing. It's difficult to see who else will be a semi-regular goal threat, both in terms of their role and duty, but also someone with the attributes to be one. Ozil shouldn't be your 2nd highest scorer. Completely agree with the choice of players and the roles they were given at fullbacks too.

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15 hours ago, zigaliro said:

Okay I made couple of changes based on the suggestions.

SV(s) to DLP(s)

left WB to FB(s)

left IF to W(a)

AF to CF(a)

T to AP(s)

Removed play out of defense

 

I played 5 matches so far, 3 draws and 2 wins, but basicly same old story. Still not a lot of quality chances, finishing is still absolutely terrible and our pass percentage is usually not that great. Only 70%-80%. We are currently sitting in 12th place.

 

What else should I change? i`m lost.

So the tactic now looks like this

                   CF (A)

       W (A)   AP(S)   IF(S)

 

          DLP (S)   DM(D)

FB(S)   CD(D)   CD(D)   WB(A)

                  GK(D)

Personally, I wouldn't change the DMLC to a DLP(S). While you don't need a player making runs all the way into the opposition box you still need a runner to link the defensive midfield to the attacking midfield. I also think that putting the winger on an attack duty is overkill.   

Speaking frankly to you, I don't think that the 4-2-3-1 DM is going to get the best out of the squad you have at your disposal but if you wish to persist with it then I'd make the following changes.

                       AF (A)

           IF (S)   AM (S)   W (S)

 

              DM (D)   DM (S)

WB (A)   CD (D)   CD (D)   FB (S)

                      GK(D)

I've chosen generic roles all around as I wouldn't want to have to depend on individuals to help us create chances. By sharing out that responsibility more it can actually help your best players to perform better by taking some of the pressure off of them.

I would also add 'Close Down More' as a PI to the front 4 players. They need to contribute defensively and by pressing and harrying the defenders it should help buy time for my fullbacks to recover their defensive positions if we lose the ball high up the pitch. It also opens up the possibility of winning the ball back in dangerous areas from the opposition.

I'd also add 'More Risky Passes' as a PI to the AM(S) in order to keep it as a creative type role and add 'Roam From Position' to make the player difficult to mark for opposing defensive midfielders. I would also put 'Hold Up Ball' as a PI for the IF (S). 

I've chosen to put all the players in the AM strata on support duty as I feel that's what is needed in order to shrink the gap between the defensive midfield and attacking midfield. I would also consider changing the shape to Fluid to further help by making the team operate more collectively (bringing their individual mentalities closer together).

I would also be looking into the transfer market for a quality defensively minded DM. You may have also noticed that I have mirrored the formation. I've done this to take account of the lack of left-footed wingers you have in the squad whereas there are a plethora of players who can play as wingers on the right. It means that Bellerin is going to be in a more conservative role but it's needed in order to retain the balance of the tactic.

The players I'd use as first choice (injuries permitting).

                     Aubameyang

 Mkhitaryan        Ozil          Lacazette

 

                     Elneny      Xhaka

Kolasinac   Koscielny  Mustafi   Bellerin

                              Cech

I would personally push both DMs up to the CM position as while you have a load of choices with natural central midfielders in the squad you only have 2 players who can play the DM position in the first team and Xhaka isn't comfortable with it. If you get an injury or suspension to either Elneny or Xhaka then you're forced into playing players in a position which they have little familiarity with which isn't ideal.

If you were to make that change I would suggest that you make the support duty CM have 'Hold Position' as a PI.

All the best

Edited by pheelf

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@zigaliro

 

I've always liked to use the 4231, i made a tactic and its been working out pretty well, im gonna share some screenshots so you can take a look at it and maybe get a few ideas from it.

Tactic -

Screenshot_14.thumb.png.1d51ac2518dbd4b2e87fcab157444f36.png

Results 1st season -

Screenshot_4.pngScreenshot_5.thumb.png.f96a9512644dd081a22834c3c7e07b22.pngScreenshot_15.thumb.png.f25718e1fe7505107ad9b9be30688e66.png

 

Results 2nd season -

 

Screenshot_17.thumb.png.ee46afb63476100bd907acb7ac35fe32.pngScreenshot_18.thumb.png.ab260c7e0e69d50d43aa50a55cd9c53c.pngScreenshot_16.thumb.png.c1c08d3e0e3e495220495bcefc7d7e31.png

Transfers if you were wondering ( 1st and 2nd season )

Screenshot_19.thumb.png.9e2aa94463b601734d501250e5df3c31.pngScreenshot_20.thumb.png.615bdaf016d029230bdf737991b79b91.png

Edited by rubip11

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Kolasinac as wingback over Bellerin?   Lacazette as a winger.....? :stop: DLP will link to midfield fine, and is a great role to spray passes forward for IF and W to run onto.  Actually disagree with a bit of "sharing responsibilities".  It's not like the Arsenal squad are snowflakes in FM.  I agree that pressing high works well with 4-2-3-1, just keep an eye on your back line and on your wingback.

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11 hours ago, pheelf said:

So the tactic now looks like this

                   CF (A)

       W (A)   AP(S)   IF(S)

 

          DLP (S)   DM(D)

FB(S)   CD(D)   CD(D)   WB(A)

                  GK(D)

Personally, I wouldn't change the DMLC to a DLP(S). While you don't need a player making runs all the way into the opposition box you still need a runner to link the defensive midfield to the attacking midfield. I also think that putting the winger on an attack duty is overkill.   

Speaking frankly to you, I don't think that the 4-2-3-1 DM is going to get the best out of the squad you have at your disposal but if you wish to persist with it then I'd make the following changes.

                       AF (A)

           IF (S)   AM (S)   W (S)

 

              DM (D)   DM (S)

WB (A)   CD (D)   CD (D)   FB (S)

                      GK(D)

I've chosen generic roles all around as I wouldn't want to have to depend on individuals to help us create chances. By sharing out that responsibility more it can actually help your best players to perform better by taking some of the pressure off of them.

I would also add 'Close Down More' as a PI to the front 4 players. They need to contribute defensively and by pressing and harrying the defenders it should help buy time for my fullbacks to recover their defensive positions if we lose the ball high up the pitch. It also opens up the possibility of winning the ball back in dangerous areas from the opposition.

I'd also add 'More Risky Passes' as a PI to the AM(S) in order to keep it as a creative type role and add 'Roam From Position' to make the player difficult to mark for opposing defensive midfielders. I would also put 'Hold Up Ball' as a PI for the IF (S). 

I've chosen to put all the players in the AM strata on support duty as I feel that's what is needed in order to shrink the gap between the defensive midfield and attacking midfield. I would also consider changing the shape to Fluid to further help by making the team operate more collectively (bringing their individual mentalities closer together).

I would also be looking into the transfer market for a quality defensively minded DM. You may have also noticed that I have mirrored the formation. I've done this to take account of the lack of left-footed wingers you have in the squad whereas there are a plethora of players who can play as wingers on the right. It means that Bellerin is going to be in a more conservative role but it's needed in order to retain the balance of the tactic.

The players I'd use as first choice (injuries permitting).

                     Aubameyang

 Mkhitaryan        Ozil          Lacazette

 

                     Elneny      Xhaka

Kolasinac   Koscielny  Mustafi   Bellerin

                              Cech

I would personally push both DMs up to the CM position as while you have a load of choices with natural central midfielders in the squad you only have 2 players who can play the DM position in the first team and Xhaka isn't comfortable with it. If you get an injury or suspension to either Elneny or Xhaka then you're forced into playing players in a position which they have little familiarity with which isn't ideal.

If you were to make that change I would suggest that you make the support duty CM have 'Hold Position' as a PI.

All the best

Yeah... I actually decided to switch to 4-1-2-3 formation.

Control and fluid

            GK(d)

WB(s)  CD  CD  WB(a)

            DM(d)

        CM(a)   AP(s)

W(s)      DLF(s)    IF(s)

 

We are playing better with this tactics, creating more chances which is good. However there are still problems. Still a lot of long shots and bad shots. Low pass completion and low possession in a lot of matches(I dont know if i should care about this).

And I just had a match against Chelsea and we were super bad. Like seriously, only 3 shots and all of them were long shots and low pass completion and low possession. We created 0 chances and we lost 2-0. Anyway we are sitting in the 12th place in the league which is not good :/

 

What should I change? I`m getting closer and closer to deleting this game!!

Edited by zigaliro

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Bellerin is your wingback, not Nacho or Kolasinac.  Against lower opposition you could probably get away with WB(S) for the left side, but WB(A) or even CWB(A) on the right side for sure.  He's not a defensive minded fullback, yet you keep making him the more defensive of the two.  You aren't understanding or using the squad as well as you could be, imo.  

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3 hours ago, zigaliro said:

We are playing better with this tactics, creating more chances which is good. However there are still problems. Still a lot of long shots and bad shots. Low pass completion and low possession in a lot of matches(I dont know if i should care about this).

 

Do you want to play a possession based football? if so, yes you  should care about that. Now if you're trying to play fast you're not gonna have as many possession as you would if you were playing with a lower tempo for example. You still havent told us what type of football you want to play, what do you want to see from your players on the pitch? tell us and we can help you achieve it

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15 hours ago, Analog said:

Kolasinac as wingback over Bellerin?   Lacazette as a winger.....? :stop: DLP will link to midfield fine, and is a great role to spray passes forward for IF and W to run onto.  Actually disagree with a bit of "sharing responsibilities".  It's not like the Arsenal squad are snowflakes in FM.  I agree that pressing high works well with 4-2-3-1, just keep an eye on your back line and on your wingback.

I agree that it's not ideal but I was trying to make the best of what is available. There are only 2 players which are left-footed that can play AML in the squad which is where he wanted to play the winger and they are Ozil and Mkhitaryan. I think both would be wasted playing as wingers. Therefore I swapped the IF and Winger flanks as I don't think it's a good idea to play a wingback (attack) behind a winger (support) due to them wanting to occupy the same space when attacking, as a result, I had to make the RB role more conservative.

Ideally, I'd want to play Lacazette upfront but then that would mean playing Aubameyang out wide which he isn't comfortable with (his only listed position is ST). I only suggested putting Lacazette into the team as a starter at all to have all the best players on the pitch and the fact that he can actually play there but he could easily be interchanged with Nelson, Iwobi or even Welbeck if necessary.

The concern with the DLP is that the 'Hold Position' hard-coded PI would prevent him from moving up the pitch which means that his long-range passing will have to be excellent as he adopts a deeper position on the pitch (a bit like Pirlo). Is Xhaka capable of that? He could be, I don't know. I noticed you put Wilshire as your choice but the problem with that is that Wilshire isn't a defensive midfielder. That's why I suggested that he should perhaps push the two DMs into CM. In that case, having a player 'Hold Position' would make a lot of sense.

12 hours ago, zigaliro said:

Yeah... I actually decided to switch to 4-1-2-3 formation.

Control and fluid

            GK(d)

WB(s)  CD  CD  WB(a)

            DM(d)

        CM(a)   AP(s)

W(s)      DLF(s)    IF(s)

 

We are playing better with this tactics, creating more chances which is good. However there are still problems. Still a lot of long shots and bad shots. Low pass completion and low possession in a lot of matches(I dont know if i should care about this).

And I just had a match against Chelsea and we were super bad. Like seriously, only 3 shots and all of them were long shots and low pass completion and low possession. We created 0 chances and we lost 2-0. Anyway we are sitting in the 12th place in the league which is not good :/

 

What should I change? I`m getting closer and closer to deleting this game!!

Am I to take from this that you have abandoned trying to get a 4-2-3-1 to work?

You are likely seeing a bunch of long shots as all your front 3 are on support duties which means they are less likely to get into the box. The only player tasked with doing that consistently is the CM(A) and he will be arriving late which may mean that the attack has already completed (a long shot for e.g.) before he is in a position to get involved in the final third. Especially when playing a higher tempo game.

Low pass completion is probably a result of playing the control mentality also. When you are playing with a higher risk mentality it is reflected in players playing higher risk passes as they try to make something happen rather than being patient and opting for a safer pass. This explains the low possession stats also. I would not get carried away with the result of one game though, they were the defending champions after all.

9 hours ago, rubip11 said:

Do you want to play a possession based football? if so, yes you  should care about that. Now if you're trying to play fast you're not gonna have as many possession as you would if you were playing with a lower tempo for example. You still havent told us what type of football you want to play, what do you want to see from your players on the pitch? tell us and we can help you achieve it

This x1000000. Until you establish what exactly you want to create how can anybody help you to create it. Asking people what you should change is actually counterproductive when people have no idea what it is your looking for as they could be suggesting things which take you further away from your vision rather than close to it.

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51 minutes ago, pheelf said:

The concern with the DLP is that the 'Hold Position' hard-coded PI would prevent him from moving up the pitch which means that his long-range passing will have to be excellent as he adopts a deeper position on the pitch (a bit like Pirlo)

Hold Position does not mean a DLP will stay back at all times and never move forward. He will just not surge forward like crazy. But when the team moves forward attacking, he will also move along and look to provide a safe passing option, only in a more cautious manner. With Defend duty, he will be slightly more cautious. And if the team has complete control of the game, camping in the OP half, a DLP may occasionally move even further forward, sometimes even pretty much deep into the attacking third and near the OP penalty area. In such cases, even the centre backs will come closer to the half-line because the OP are entirely committed to defending and so the threat to our defense is minimal. And of course, the more intelligent a player is, the better he will be in assessing when and how he can move forward safely.

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3 hours ago, pheelf said:

would mean playing Aubameyang out wide which he isn't comfortable with

Find a sick bag for this vomit. Pace and acceleration 20 but you think he cant play outwide. Dont pay any attention to what the game tells you a player is comfortable with. 

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@pheelf westy is totally right.  Do you think Spurs were concerned Bale was uncomfortable playing left wing when he started as a fullback?  Or then him moving to right wing sometimes?  Judge the players on his attributes for what you want him to do, the more you play them in that position the more comfortable they should get there (depending on the adaptability hidden attribute).

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4 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Hold Position does not mean a DLP will stay back at all times and never move forward. He will just not surge forward like crazy. But when the team moves forward attacking, he will also move along and look to provide a safe passing option, only in a more cautious manner. With Defend duty, he will be slightly more cautious. And if the team has complete control of the game, camping in the OP half, a DLP may occasionally move even further forward, sometimes even pretty much deep into the attacking third and near the OP penalty area. In such cases, even the centre backs will come closer to the half-line because the OP are entirely committed to defending and so the threat to our defense is minimal. And of course, the more intelligent a player is, the better he will be in assessing when and how he can move forward safely.

I guess it's probably my experience with playing a 4-1-2-3 Wide in FM17 which has probably made me think that given that the DLP I had in DM wouldn't venture forward at all even when we had control in the opposition half. In retrospect that probably had more to do with having two central midfielders directly in front of him rather than being restricted by the Hold Position PI. I concede to your point if that's what you've experienced as I haven't myself used the role in FM18. What's your take on playing with two playmakers in the midfield in the 4-2-3-1 DM? 

1 hour ago, westy8chimp said:

Find a sick bag for this vomit. Pace and acceleration 20 but you think he cant play outwide. Dont pay any attention to what the game tells you a player is comfortable with. 

:D...He can definitely play out wide as a winger, I 100% agree with that but not on the left flank as the OP wanted as he is right footed. He could be forced to do it but I don't think it'll get the best out of him.

40 minutes ago, summatsupeer said:

@pheelf westy is totally right.  Do you think Spurs were concerned Bale was uncomfortable playing left wing when he started as a fullback?  Or then him moving to right wing sometimes?  Judge the players on his attributes for what you want him to do, the more you play them in that position the more comfortable they should get there (depending on the adaptability hidden attribute).

Judging players on their attributes and playing styles is exactly what I've done hence why I've ended up having to make some compromises that aren't ideal such as putting Bellerin in a more conservative role. I think it might be difficult to retrain a 29-year-old to play in a way which they are completely unfamiliar with whereas Bale was still very young and hence more malleable. How would you set up a 4-2-3-1 DM for Arsenal?

Edited by pheelf

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51 minutes ago, pheelf said:

How would you set up a 4-2-3-1 DM for Arsenal?

Monreal fb-s, koza and mustafi cb-d, bellerin fb-s

Xhaka dlp-s, elneny dm-s 

Auba r. wing-a, ozil ap-s, iwobi l. if-s

Laca cf-a

---

Welbz, nelson, mkhi, ramsey, wilsh, chambers, kolas

----

Id want a better IF, DM and CB

Arsenal need some determination and work rate so guys with good mentals would be where i spend money. Chielini 25m, delaney 17m, wernboom 8m, muniain possibly at IF... Maybe u can afford or find better. 

Personally id use a standard 4231 with high line and fluid (basically the 4231 from my leverkusen season 5) teams will be sitting back and as far as defences go arsenal have better recovery attributes to play high than they do to sit back. 

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1 hour ago, pheelf said:

What's your take on playing with two playmakers in the midfield in the 4-2-3-1 DM? 

It always depends on how I want my team to play, but in general, I'm not opposed to the idea of using 2 PMs. In a 4231DM I'd probably put one in a DM position and the other on the opposite side of wide forward area. So, if my DLP played in DMR, my APM would be AML (and vice versa).

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2 hours ago, pheelf said:

Judging players on their attributes and playing styles is exactly what I've done hence why I've ended up having to make some compromises that aren't ideal such as putting Bellerin in a more conservative role. I think it might be difficult to retrain a 29-year-old to play in a way which they are completely unfamiliar with whereas Bale was still very young and hence more malleable.

Its not so much the role, its the position.  A lot of posters on here dismiss formations that have ML + MR because there players aren't comfortable at those positions, even if they're a winger so the exact same role!

Retraining is hard at that point, I agree but i'd still happily put them in a different position if they have the attributes for it.

2 hours ago, pheelf said:

How would you set up a 4-2-3-1 DM for Arsenal?

Dunno, the only Arsenal save i've done this year was an Invincible's 442 inspired tactic. Off top of my head I would probably use a 433 DM Wide or 4312 with Arsenal.  Aub being a high early runner from wide left or up front (in a two), Laka doing a bit of everything up front, ozil creating, ramsey getting in+around the box, bellerin providing width, the rest of the tactic would be build around supporting+covering them which would need some signings, fast+vertical football.  4231 DM Wide means Ramsey is either a DM which some of his attributes aren't amazing for or is in a AM position but he lacks the pace for a wide forward so that means he would be in AMC and Ozil has to go wide. I prefer Ramsey to make those late runs into the box and let others cover to give him some freedom.

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9 hours ago, Robson 07 said:

Its not 2004 mate, he's 35 next birthday :kriss:

Check his attribs... Still perfect cb for a couple of seasons and having him tutor holding, chambers and mavrap would be invaluable. 

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Yeah but no, I decided that I`m quitting this game. Tried really hard but just can`t get in to it, we constantly doing poor. I thought I finally created decent tacting by beating Tottenham 3-0 but nah, same crappy performances in next matches. That`s it, not playing anymore.

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It's about time. Take a brake before getting into FM19.

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6 hours ago, zigaliro said:

Yeah but no, I decided that I`m quitting this game. Tried really hard but just can`t get in to it, we constantly doing poor. I thought I finally created decent tacting by beating Tottenham 3-0 but nah, same crappy performances in next matches. That`s it, not playing anymore.

I understand how you feel. A break won't necessarily help you, I've done that, came back and no change.

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13 hours ago, zigaliro said:

Yeah but no, I decided that I`m quitting this game. Tried really hard but just can`t get in to it, we constantly doing poor. I thought I finally created decent tacting by beating Tottenham 3-0 but nah, same crappy performances in next matches. That`s it, not playing anymore.

Fair enough, it appears to me as though the only thing you're concerned with is winning which is a perfectly valid way to play the game. If I'm correct with that assessment then why don't you just download a tactic and have fun rather than frustrate yourself trying to create your own tactic?

13 hours ago, Haiku said:

It's about time. Take a brake before getting into FM19.

If you're having trouble creating a tactic in FM18 you will likely struggle in FM19 too. A break won't suddenly make you understand things you're having trouble getting.

6 hours ago, Armistice said:

I understand how you feel. A break won't necessarily help you, I've done that, came back and no change.

I don't understand where you're coming from. In recent times, you have overachieved in practically every save you've posted about in this forum. What exactly are you hoping for? You probably have a better understanding of the tactical side of the game than most people and yet you keep coming forth with this mantra that you are struggling with the game when in reality that isn't true.  

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On 24/09/2018 at 00:36, zigaliro said:

Yeah but no, I decided that I`m quitting this game. Tried really hard but just can`t get in to it, we constantly doing poor. I thought I finally created decent tacting by beating Tottenham 3-0 but nah, same crappy performances in next matches. That`s it, not playing anymore.

Honestly I think this forum can lead to a lot of over complication when it comes to tactics. It can seep into your mind and make you analyse everything and start to have expectations that you can and should win every single game. It doesn't really work like that. 

Usually when I am frustrated with my performances I am making similar mistakes:

1) I don't watch matches. This is a massive error when you start out with a tactic. I am impatient and so I set it on Key Highlights and let the match unfold. All this leads to is frustration because I have no idea what is happening, or WHY I am losing. Now I put the speed on fastest but watch the whole match. You really pick up a good idea of what your tactic is doing this way. This is the bit where I realise where I am losing possession, where my players are doing the wrong things. You don't get that from highlights. 

2) I don't make changes in game. I get lazy and expect my tactic to work in every situation. I like playing counter football, but that struggles against sides who don't give you space to counter into. This means I lose against small sides and get serious rage.

3) I make too many changes. I make random changes because they 'feel' right, without really looking at what my side is doing. Going back to point 1, because its such a vital point, if I don't watch my sides mistakes, I can't correct them. 

Anyway, that is my tip for losing the frustration. Just watch the matches, and analyse it better.

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It's very simple. If you don't want the frustration of failing tactics, download a plug-and-play tactic and buy the best players in the world for the positions and just role trough seasons. 

There is no need to get frustrated this much. It's all about patients and learning. 

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54 minutes ago, johnnyyakuza78 said:

3) I make too many changes. I make random changes because they 'feel' right, without really looking at what my side is doing

I can't upvote this enough.

If someone makes too many changes they end up with a completely new but untried and untested tactical system during the course of an actual match.  That's just a disaster waiting to happen.

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4 minutes ago, herne79 said:

I can't upvote this enough.

If someone makes too many changes they end up with a completely new but untried and untested tactical system during the course of an actual match.  That's just a disaster waiting to happen.

Thanks, I'd say its the one major mistake I often catch myself doing, but find difficult to resist. It goes back especially to watching things on Key. 

Say for instance I concede a goal, maybe their striker ran through my defence too easily.. well then, why don't I push up, increase closing down, hard tackle, set one of my mids to BMW to make sure that doesn't happen again. Makes some sense. But unfortunately I didn't watch the rest of the match, I have no idea how common that instance was, or what effect my changes are going to have on my overall tactic. It 'feels' right to make that change because its like me trying to go back in time and reverse that goal occurring. But I'm not Marty McFly, I can't do that. 

 

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On 09/09/2018 at 22:44, zigaliro said:

I`m not enjoying this game anymore. I tried 100 different saves and my team always does super bad. I deleted the game many times but I`m always coming  back in hope of finally creating a working tactics, but again I fail horribly. I read TONS of guides, but nothing is helping, creating tactics in this game is very confusing and doesn`t make sense some times. I don`t think I will buy FM 19 if it doesn`t become more beginner friendly and easier.

 

I now decided to try to create a decent tactic with Arsenal. I picked 4-2-3-1 DM formation with just Play out of defense instruction with Standard mentality and Flexible team shape.

 

Roles and duties:

20180909233743_1.thumb.jpg.bccad8228bc8a4bd069fe5510a23b258.jpg

 

What am I doing wrong? In the friendlies we did pretty good, we also won Community shield against Chelsea, but when the league started it just went downhill. Barely any good chances, terrible finishing, terrible passing, terrible decision making, and a lot of unecessary long shots. I mean I only played 4 league matches but it was enough to see that we are playing really bad.

 

you can give this a try..very defensively stable hardly concede from crosses and no stupid wingers running pass your defends like he wasn't there ...you'll find it lovely...I feel your pain brother ,I've been there🤣🤣

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2 hours ago, johnnyyakuza78 said:

Thanks, I'd say its the one major mistake I often catch myself doing, but find difficult to resist. It goes back especially to watching things on Key. 

Say for instance I concede a goal, maybe their striker ran through my defence too easily.. well then, why don't I push up, increase closing down, hard tackle, set one of my mids to BMW to make sure that doesn't happen again. Makes some sense. But unfortunately I didn't watch the rest of the match, I have no idea how common that instance was, or what effect my changes are going to have on my overall tactic. It 'feels' right to make that change because its like me trying to go back in time and reverse that goal occurring. But I'm not Marty McFly, I can't do that. 
 

I think you put your finger on something very important here. You should not be making changes based on a single isolated event. So if a goal is scored because a defender made a rash tackle, you do not have to immediately switch him to not tackle at all (and a million other examples). You need to make changes when you start seeing the same thing over and over again happening, and you dislike it. One ball over the top for a goal is not a cause for concern. Several dangerous balls over the top to a player in an onside position is.

You also, sometimes, need to make the distinction between needing to make tactical changes and your players just having a bad day. Sometimes, a player just has a bad day.

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3 hours ago, johnnyyakuza78 said:

Honestly I think this forum can lead to a lot of over complication when it comes to tactics. It can seep into your mind and make you analyse everything and start to have expectations that you can and should win every single game. It doesn't really work like that. 

Usually when I am frustrated with my performances I am making similar mistakes:

1) I don't watch matches. This is a massive error when you start out with a tactic. I am impatient and so I set it on Key Highlights and let the match unfold. All this leads to is frustration because I have no idea what is happening, or WHY I am losing. Now I put the speed on fastest but watch the whole match. You really pick up a good idea of what your tactic is doing this way. This is the bit where I realise where I am losing possession, where my players are doing the wrong things. You don't get that from highlights. 

2) I don't make changes in game. I get lazy and expect my tactic to work in every situation. I like playing counter football, but that struggles against sides who don't give you space to counter into. This means I lose against small sides and get serious rage.

3) I make too many changes. I make random changes because they 'feel' right, without really looking at what my side is doing. Going back to point 1, because its such a vital point, if I don't watch my sides mistakes, I can't correct them. 

Anyway, that is my tip for losing the frustration. Just watch the matches, and analyse it better.

This is so me it's funny. :lol:

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Did @zigaliro never come back :-) I think he's biggest issue was the poor choice of roles in the final third. Yes one could theoretically play with two IF(S) on support, that could work, but both are running centrally to a space vacated by another player who may be intent on playing as a 2nd striker. TQ may be nice, but Mezut Ozil, irl I don't think he runs that much does he? maybe on FM his attributes are different.

 

I would have just changed the left IF to a winger on attack, Change the Striker to either a CF(S) or even a poacher.  Then I would play with a pushed up defensive line, since we are playing with 2DMs. I would also tell the two wbs to close down more. Finally I would have just played the whole system on Control/structured, as the lowest mentality. Shape would really be a function of how many bodies I want to see involved.

DM(D) maybe a good idea against good teams, but against everyone else, I would turn the DM to a DM(S) and tell him to get further forward, OR, I would turn him into a HB and turn BOTH wbs to attack, in which case the Winger will be on support instead of attack. Finally I would play the system on Balanced width to start. People need to understand exactly what Width does in a tactic, it can influence so much.

 

8 hours ago, johnnyyakuza78 said:

3) I make too many changes

And yeah I have been playing overload so much this season, now I have gone into locking me arms, and keeping them fingers away from the keyboard

 

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4 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

I think you put your finger on something very important here. You should not be making changes based on a single isolated event. So if a goal is scored because a defender made a rash tackle, you do not have to immediately switch him to not tackle at all (and a million other examples). You need to make changes when you start seeing the same thing over and over again happening, and you dislike it. One ball over the top for a goal is not a cause for concern. Several dangerous balls over the top to a player in an onside position is.

True, but you should become a master of spotting trends...it begins with:

1. Does he do what he is supposed to do in that area? Win 2nd Ball, win header, etc
2. And this is the biggie, is his match rating far from the rest. And this is where observing him is important. If you notice small mistakes and the rest of the team is doing well. Then you need to make a decision quick. Cos the combo of 1+2 could lead to a goal.

On key highlights you have 1 highlight to decide
On extended you have like 2 highlights, AND THIS MAY NOT EVEN SHOW you the problem.
On comprehensive - take an asprin, cos there are going to be too many highlights so..what the hell do we do?
 

1, Understand your own tactic. OPs tactic is a good example.  I don't think he knows where he wants to win the 2nd ball, where his fullbacks will close down, or where they will funnel play and how his team is expected to apply pressure in the final third, if its going to.
2. Know your routes to goal, if an attacking transition fails then that's what you look for in a highlight. Who screwed up? Or did he have a lack of support?

Yeah its a long road, but I do hope the shows like Gamechanger that I do when I analyse players highlights provides a clue

 

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20 hours ago, Rashidi said:

 On key highlights you have 1 highlight to decide
On extended you have like 2 highlights, AND THIS MAY NOT EVEN SHOW you the problem.
On comprehensive - take an asprin, cos there are going to be too many highlights so..what the hell do we do?
 

Agreed, it is damned tricky and takes practise and experience. I would say this is the first iteration of FM where I am actually properly able to diagnose my own problems and make the correct changes myself. It takes so much time and effort to get to this point, it is worth it but not everyone has the time or the inclination.

For what it is worth, I do not mind watching a portion of the match on full highlights, in 2D, with the timer sped up towards the fastest (not so fast I cannot really understand what goes on). Watching 20 minutes like this, you can start to spot some trends. I also focus on just a single player (I may even have picked this up from watching your videos and/or reading your articles) and see what he does. Still, you can easily be overwhelmed by the information that is hitting you. 

I definitely find your videos useful, all of them actually, because as in any topic it helps to have things explained simply and clearly by somebody who has a deep understanding of the topic. I learn a lot from almost every video, article etc that I watch or read from such people. Yourself, Cleon, Westy, Herne and the rest. Appreciate the effort and love of the game dude!

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