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Let's be honest, is anyone going to bother with FM19?


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1 hour ago, craiigman said:

I don’t like that pre-purchase is available so early with no features released

It is indeed a bit cheeky, asking people to pay for a game based on nothing more than it's name/reputation. It could be an absolute abomination of a game.

Having said that, the 10% discount for pre-purchase goes right up until the day before the official release date, so we will definitely know about new features by that point and can take advantage of the discount.

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4 minutes ago, craiigman said:

I haven't. Like I said in my post, I'll get it from Amazon after a month or so it's £20 on there.

So why does it bother you that they've put a completely optional pre-order with no real benefit?

Don't get me wrong, it's brought up each year so you're likely not alone, I've just never understood the furore around it.  

Edited by forameuss
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1 hour ago, forameuss said:

So why does it bother you that they've put a completely optional pre-order with no real benefit?

Don't get me wrong, it's brought up each year so you're likely not alone, I've just never understood the furore around it.  

I'd understand it if it ended before any feature announcements. But as it doesn't there is nothing to complain about. Juat wait until features are announced, and then decide if you want to take advantage of it at that point. You're not being forced to pre order, and theres no penalty for not. 

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1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

You're not being forced to pre order, and theres no penalty for not.

Tbh, there's still no penalty even if the 10% discount ended before the game came out as it's a bonus. It's not like you have to pay more than retail if you don't pre-order. Chances are, most people who buy it after it comes out will pay less than those who pre-ordered anyway...

But yeah, I don't get the complaints about the game being able to pre-order before features were announced. If you don't like it then don't pre-order or simply wait until features get announced.

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45 minutes ago, turnip said:

Anyone who thinks wholesale changes to the match engine are a good thing should be forced to play Championship Manager 4 for an entire year.

That was a terrific game, wasn't it?:( I wonder how many users gave up after that version?

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Just my perspective.  I did not buy FM 2018 and will not be purchasing FM 2019 until after the 3rd patch if at all.  I would really like to see improvement with Regens as FM 2015 and FM 2016 still can not be topped in terms of face and hair variety.

Why is this important to me?  Because it helps me to connect with the FM universe that I am playing in, it helps me to connect to my players and coaches, and it is a small thing but helps me to be immersed when I play FM. 

Not trying to speak for anyone else or say that I am part of the majority, but this game in past versions did a great job of connecting to the players that you manage and the last few versions (2017 and 2018) I feel like my connection to the players on my squad is distant.  As in the face provided or help provide a personality and a human connection.

FM 2014: 1891 hours

FM2015: 3872 hours (This version and FM10 were my favorite.  FM10 because of SFraser and his awesome threads.)

FM2016: 0

FM2017: 2687 hours ( i have no regen faces, I copy retired players and other players images and I renamed the actual image file to match up to the regen players id, so they then have a picture for their face.  But in my current save, most of the other players in the world outside my team, have no picture anymore, and for some reason it completely demotivates me to continue the save.

FM2018: 0

FM2019: ?

Edited by SunDevil
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6 hours ago, SunDevil said:

Just my perspective.  I did not buy FM 2018 and will not be purchasing FM 2019 until after the 3rd patch if at all.  I would really like to see improvement with Regens as FM 2015 and FM 2016 still can not be topped in terms of face and hair variety.

Why is this important to me?  Because it helps me to connect with the FM universe that I am playing in, it helps me to connect to my players and coaches, and it is a small thing but helps me to be immersed when I play FM. 

Not trying to speak for anyone else or say that I am part of the majority, but this game in past versions did a great job of connecting to the players that you manage and the last few versions (2017 and 2018) I feel like my connection to the players on my squad is distant.  As in the face provided or help provide a personality and a human connection.

FM 2014: 1891 hours

FM2015: 3872 hours (This version and FM10 were my favorite.  FM10 because of SFraser and his awesome threads.)

FM2016: 0

FM2017: 2687 hours ( i have no regen faces, I copy retired players and other players images and I renamed the actual image file to match up to the regen players id, so they then have a picture for their face.  But in my current save, most of the other players in the world outside my team, have no picture anymore, and for some reason it completely demotivates me to continue the save.

FM2018: 0

FM2019: ?

Well, personally speaking, I feel more connected to my players with FM18 than I ever have in FM. That is thanks to the Dynamics feature. It gives my squad personality.

BY no means are the interaction mechanics of FM perfect. I've posted a few complaints with it myself, and replied to similar threads. There is much I feel could do with expanding or reworking with regards to interaction, but it is a work in progress and much has already been added with the dynamics feature.

The faces aren't perfect, and some can be horrendous. I wouldn't argue with them being improved.

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7 hours ago, SunDevil said:

I would really like to see improvement with Regens as FM 2015 and FM 2016 still can not be topped in terms of face and hair variety.

Why is this important to me?  Because it helps me to connect with the FM universe that I am playing in, it helps me to connect to my players and coaches, and it is a small thing but helps me to be immersed when I play FM. 

Not trying to speak for anyone else or say that I am part of the majority, but this game in past versions did a great job of connecting to the players that you manage and the last few versions (2017 and 2018) I feel like my connection to the players on my squad is distant.  As in the face provided or help provide a personality and a human connection.

I have made that exact point in the past and would like to see significant improvement from the last couple of years in terms of newgen faces.

I find it difficult to 'connect' with newgens if they look like mutants (FM17) or frequently change ethnicity (as many users have reported in FM18). If FM19 isn't any better in this regard - and I hope it is - then I would seriously consider using replacement faces for the first time.

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On 03/09/2018 at 18:34, themadsheep2001 said:

Anyone who spends even a moment of time listening to Miles (whether you like him or loathe him) will immediately see that he's intent on each FM being better than the last. Competition is irrelevant in his case.  

I'm pretty sure Neil has spoken before of that self motivation. And I'll take the words of people who know what they are working in and their own mind states, than a guru who is generalising from afar. 

 

Whenever "no competition = laziness" discussion comes up, I feel it's a bit misguided. I don't think many people question SI's passion for the game because you can clearly see it whenever one of the devs talk about it.

Lack of competition doesn't bring complacency and laziness, but it does make SI not take too many chances, not take high risks with features, mechanics etc. They genuinely strive to improve the game every year, but when push comes to shove they know they can play it safely and postpone potentially risky developments for a year or three. 

Edited by shirajzl
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In my leverkusen save i had a regen who was so good i built seasons around him in different specialist roles... Regista, bpd, wtm... He also played in goal (when i had injuries), upfront in fellaini-esque desperation etc.

His face and ethnicity seemed to change in perfect synergy with his role changes :D

Doesnt bother me at all... Its probably the aspect of FM i just cant grasp conceptually, how many players genuinely like the immersion features. I cant argue against it, i dont disagree with it or judge people for it... I literally just dont get it. 

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2 minutes ago, shirajzl said:

but it does make SI not take too many chances, not take high risks with features, mechanics etc.

Good :thup: FM is a constant, like Penny is for Desmond in Lost, i know what to expect every year and that if ever im at a loose end and have some free time i can load it up and enjoy. It always has some bugs or nuances 'features' that i dislike... But i also know its not just gona drastically change making my 20+years experience void. 

Id love a competitor to come a long and try to be more ambitious... But FM are the solid base i know i can rely on. Id be devasted if they took a completely new avenue that i couldnt follow. Yes it could be amazing, they could get it perfect... Not worth the risk imo 

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55 minutes ago, shirajzl said:

Lack of competition doesn't bring complacency and laziness, but it does make SI not take too many chances, not take high risks with features, mechanics etc. They genuinely strive to improve the game every year, but when push comes to shove they know they can play it safely and postpone potentially risky developments for a year or three. 

50 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Good :thup: FM is a constant, like Penny is for Desmond in Lost, i know what to expect every year and that if ever im at a loose end and have some free time i can load it up and enjoy. It always has some bugs or nuances 'features' that i dislike... But i also know its not just gona drastically change making my 20+years experience void. 

Id love a competitor to come a long and try to be more ambitious... But FM are the solid base i know i can rely on. Id be devasted if they took a completely new avenue that i couldnt follow. Yes it could be amazing, they could get it perfect... Not worth the risk imo 

westy have some good points here. I wouldn't like if they implemented too much "the Sims"-esque features that some ask for. Or Chairman manager where you are deeply involved in stadium building (and actually designing it as I've seen wanted by some!). One of the reasons I enjoy FM as I do is because in it's core, it's a football simulation. I don't care if the 3d is flashy or not, most of the time I use 2d anyway. I played back when the only mode was commentary and enjoyed that "watching" it in my mind. Some features are well wanted and needed and some are less important for me, but they all fit into a simulated football world that I as the manager would have some say or input. Designing the stadium as a mini game is NOT an aspect. Nor is what I can do with the money I earn (cars, house, wife, etc), with a single exception in funding my own licences should the club refuse (in my opinion something that would fit, but by no means a big deal).

Football is the bread and butter of FM and should stay in focus, all things surrounding it should be in a supporting role. At least, I hope it stays this way. Change for the better, not change for the sake of changing.

Edited by XaW
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11 hours ago, FrazT said:

That was a terrific game, wasn't it?:( I wonder how many users gave up after that version?

I was one them, CM03/04 is the only version not in my collection.

If If wasn’t for the split I might have never bought another SI game after CM4.

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26 minutes ago, XaW said:

I played back when the only mode was commentary and enjoyed that "watching" it in my mind

and at the time of CM01/02 I didn't think any game could ever surpass it... 17 years later and I love FM18.

I think the success is that it is little tweaks year on year so that you only notice them when you look back.

Once you spend the first few weeks of a new FM getting over some of the annoying UI changes or new features (like social media I just completely block out, repressed in the recesses of my brain) then it's brilliant.

Some users will complain that they are basically spending money on an updated DB ... personally that's all I need from it... the odd new thing is great, but I wouldn't be disappointed if the only thing to change between now and FM30 is the DB (and maybe more tactical options around pressing and defending)... id lose interest if social media became more prevalent and I needed a 'MySpace' account synced in to be able to play... or you had to run the latest hardware to be able to keep up with the AI increasing every year ...

Make it virtual so you seem like you are actually on the touchline?  I'm not spending £10,000 on some new age virtual reality headset to play FM... FM is and always will be for me, something I can play for 10 mins between cooking dinner... or while I watch football... or late night sesh to keep me awake while I wait for UFC fight night or some boxing... I don't want it to be all consuming, my lifestyle doesn't allow me to play games like Fifa, with a young baby and family I need to be able to start and stop constantly.

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12 hours ago, FrazT said:

That was a terrific game, wasn't it?:( I wonder how many users gave up after that version?

I actually loved CM4 at first. It wasn't until I got back into it about five years ago that I realised just how buggy and rushed it was.

The versions that very nearly made me give up on the series were FM07 and FM08. On both games, my saves would frequently become corrupted, even after I started backing them up. I skipped the next two games and briefly dabbled into CM10... which was rubbish. (Incidentally, from FM11 onwards, I have never had a save corrupt on me.)

Edited by CFuller
Grammar.
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7 minutes ago, CFuller said:

I actually loved CM4 at first. It wasn't until I got back into it about five years ago that I realised just how buggy and rushed it was.

The versions that very nearly made me give up on the series were FM07 and FM08. On both games, my saves would frequently become corrupted, even after I started backing them up. I skipped the next two games and briefly dabbled into CM10... which was rubbish. (Incidentally, from FM11 onwards, I have never had a save corrupt on me.)

Ah, memories...remember when it wasn't a question of if, but when your save would corrupt?

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32 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

and at the time of CM01/02 I didn't think any game could ever surpass it... 17 years later and I love FM18.

I think the success is that it is little tweaks year on year so that you only notice them when you look back.

Once you spend the first few weeks of a new FM getting over some of the annoying UI changes or new features (like social media I just completely block out, repressed in the recesses of my brain) then it's brilliant.

Some users will complain that they are basically spending money on an updated DB ... personally that's all I need from it... the odd new thing is great, but I wouldn't be disappointed if the only thing to change between now and FM30 is the DB (and maybe more tactical options around pressing and defending)... id lose interest if social media became more prevalent and I needed a 'MySpace' account synced in to be able to play... or you had to run the latest hardware to be able to keep up with the AI increasing every year ...

Make it virtual so you seem like you are actually on the touchline?  I'm not spending £10,000 on some new age virtual reality headset to play FM... FM is and always will be for me, something I can play for 10 mins between cooking dinner... or while I watch football... or late night sesh to keep me awake while I wait for UFC fight night or some boxing... I don't want it to be all consuming, my lifestyle doesn't allow me to play games like Fifa, with a young baby and family I need to be able to start and stop constantly.

Once again we agree. However, I have som small changes I would like to see, but I'm mostly happy with how the game changes each year. I mostly play FM while doing something else or watching something. While I have a high end-ish computer I mostly play FM now a days. I used to play a lot more, but real life hinders me to play as much as I want. Damn family, job and responsibilities! ;)

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4 minutes ago, XaW said:

While I have a high end-ish computer I mostly play FM now a days. I used to play a lot more, but real life hinders me to play as much as I want. Damn family, job and responsibilities! ;)

I am the exact same. I essentially spent in excess of a grand to sit and play FM. But in a high resolution.

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20 minutes ago, Neotropolis said:

I am the exact same. I essentially spent in excess of a grand to sit and play FM. But in a high resolution.

My "gaming laptop" costed 1160 pounds (of my local currency) a couple of years ago and are used for FM and streaming.... well spent money...

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7 minutes ago, XaW said:

My "gaming laptop" costed 1160 pounds (of my local currency) a couple of years ago and are used for FM and streaming.... well spent money...

Mine is essentially for FM and FM forums. I mostly use the iPad for streaming (then I can do both at once!)

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1 hour ago, Neotropolis said:

I am the exact same. I essentially spent in excess of a grand to sit and play FM. But in a high resolution.

I’ve probably spent in excess of £5000 over the years on PC components to play FM in the way I like to.

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I'll buy it as its going to be a great game 

yes there will be bugs at launch, every edition has had some issues, but they get fixed pretty quick and its just part a parcel of any game from any developer

FM is the most value for money for money single thing I buy each year, and I have done since the first Champ Man. I remember buying it on FA cup final day (Arsenal V Sheff Wed) for the Atari ST. I took it back the next week (making up a story that the game didn't load from the disk) as I hated the fact it just had made up players, then I saw the newer PC version had real player names and that was that. 

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On 02/09/2018 at 20:21, Handstar said:

I will buy FM19, at what point I do not know. I have changed my habits with FM18 using muscle memory rather than writing untold notes which I have done since FM12, I have got to say that it has been very difficult for me playing this version because I keep getting the sack with every team I play with. I always put in 1000+ hours into every version but determined to stick with FM18 for a while but then again like I do every version I may buy it again on pre-order I am going to see what the pre-release details are like.

Just an update on my own quote, I've got it on pre-order but WILL NOT be playing during beta.

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9 hours ago, XaW said:

westy have some good points here. I wouldn't like if they implemented too much "the Sims"-esque features that some ask for. Or Chairman manager where you are deeply involved in stadium building (and actually designing it as I've seen wanted by some!). One of the reasons I enjoy FM as I do is because in it's core, it's a football simulation. I don't care if the 3d is flashy or not, most of the time I use 2d anyway. I played back when the only mode was commentary and enjoyed that "watching" it in my mind. Some features are well wanted and needed and some are less important for me, but they all fit into a simulated football world that I as the manager would have some say or input. Designing the stadium as a mini game is NOT an aspect. Nor is what I can do with the money I earn (cars, house, wife, etc), with a single exception in funding my own licences should the club refuse (in my opinion something that would fit, but by no means a big deal).

Football is the bread and butter of FM and should stay in focus, all things surrounding it should be in a supporting role. At least, I hope it stays this way. Change for the better, not change for the sake of changing.

Woa, woa, woa...I never mentioned "Sims" features and similar boll*cks people ask all the time. Football is football and it hardly changes, but certain existing modules (like reputation system causing all kinds of mess) can do with fixing and overhauling, which is extremely complicated and thus risky.

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1 hour ago, shirajzl said:

Woa, woa, woa...I never mentioned "Sims" features and similar boll*cks people ask all the time. Football is football and it hardly changes, but certain existing modules (like reputation system causing all kinds of mess) can do with fixing and overhauling, which is extremely complicated and thus risky.

Yeah, that part wasn't aimed at you, but more of a general feel that there is a demand from SI to change up the game version to version and I disagree with it. And, as is the law of the Internet, I turned to hyperbole to underline the point. The idea is that I'm all good with the fact that FM allows small changes each and every year and that this wouldn't necessarily change for the better with competition for "less complacency" or "higher risk taking" or whatever the reason given.

I think most players agree that the transfer AI could be improved, same for AI squad management (those are related in my mind). The ME is always improving, and we do get small improvements every version. In FM18 is was dynamics, scouting and medical center. Whatever you feel about those features and their changes, they are indeed new, overhauled and (relatively) fixed. All new features in any software run a risk of bugs, so overhauls and refactoring/rewriting come with a certain chance of breaking something, so I think SI are taking small, but reasonable steps. It might not always be the one feature we as a playerbase would deem the most needed, but SI most likely have a reason to do so. I suspect it have to do with either (or a combination of the following) development time, complexity, integration with other components, or waiting for other components to be rewritten/changed/fixed so that the component we want to change are actually possible to change.

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On 01/09/2018 at 16:49, ZiggySawdust said:

Maybe I should stick to 2012 which in my opinion was the last very, very, easy version.

Fixed that for you. 

It's interesting how you bleat about this '3 up front' exploit, when FM12 had the biggest exploit in the entire series' history. 

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17 hours ago, shirajzl said:

Lack of competition doesn't bring complacency and laziness, but it does make SI not take too many chances, not take high risks with features, mechanics etc. They genuinely strive to improve the game every year, but when push comes to shove they know they can play it safely and postpone potentially risky developments for a year or three. 

 

That's another good point, actually. Then again, this may also go two ways: An altogether new or overhauled feature may introduce new varables in a game's mix. Thus such an overhaul gifted extra time may be one that is more likely to be a game changer. Or at least, better the experience out of the box, rather than disrupting it at first. Precisely because it may not have been included earlier in the process as should be. E.g. It's hard to tell whether SI's decision to first introduce 3d visuals was influenced by any market developments at that time -- but when they did around the same time as CM had done it, it was a basic thing.

There wasn't even proper fully staff working on 3d animations, it was all taken from an ages old Sega Virtua Striker game. The aforementioned "buggy" CM4 afaik was the first one that introduced visual match play proper, and for FM 13 SI had actually made the decision rather late on to include a significant engine overhaul, which made it so that matches lasted the 90 minutes full, amongst a few other things.  They publicly had communicated this on the boards -- which in turn further brought confirmation to the voices that argue they're being treated as "paying beta testers" every year.

Still a point! This is surely going to be another year another FM anyway, based on football too (like there wasn't enough of that all over the bloody place these days) -- now bring on Call Of Cthulhu (and Alien:Isolation 2, Sega)! :D;) 

Edited by Svenc
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Just wanted to say.. i love playing  with the  3 striker formations.  My two gripes would be: (1) teams need to rotate more (or just increase this on manager profiles). (2) Transfers need to be sorted out. i dont hink i've ever seen a player exchange deal happen. (b) when i offer a player to other clubs, when the likes of new your city or other major clubs ask me to pay a percentage of their wages, for the durartion of their contract, well that needs to go. 

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1 minute ago, dragosani said:

Just wanted to say.. i love playing  with the  3 striker formations.  My two gripes would be: (1) teams need to rotate more (or just increase this on manager profiles). (2) Transfers need to be sorted out. i dont hink i've ever seen a player exchange deal happen. (b) when i offer a player to other clubs, when the likes of new your city or other major clubs ask me to pay a percentage of their wages, for the durartion of their contract, well that needs to go. 

to be fair though dude where do you see the player exchange in real life? cant remember many. 

 

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A resounding NO from me.

Every version since 15 has been a step back in quality (excluding graphical updates obviously) IMO and 18 is the absolute least fun that i can ever remember having in FM. (Even 13 was better than this trash).

Instead of fixing any issues all SI seem to do anymore is slap on a new coat of sparkly paint and pretend everything is fine.

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3 hours ago, jamessmith010101 said:

to be fair though dude where do you see the player exchange in real life? cant remember many. 

 

They are very rare, mostly because of the complexity of satisfyingly each players demands, and balancing their worth. They should happen in game, but be rare. Which I think is the case. 

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27 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

They are very rare, mostly because of the complexity of satisfyingly each players demands, and balancing their worth. They should happen in game, but be rare. Which I think is the case. 

Not that rare in Brazil, for instance.

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Brazilian football is far more dynamic compared to European. There are more players moving clubs, more transfers, higher variety of transfers, especially loans... It seems to me like half of the teams change 50% of their squad between seasons. Plus, there is a huge drain of players towards Europe, Asia and the Middle East. Might be wrong on these, it is only my impression after two years following only the top league. Hope @PMLF can provide more competent insight.

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Normally I am very excited when a new version of the game comes to the shelves or online, and I pre-ordered the last versions, I am not excited for the 2019 version, because apart from a few new things on 2018 version the game is going down the hill, 2018 version brought the same problems of older versions, AI (atificial inteligence) should be called NIAA (No Inteligence At All) even goalkeepers just stand still or not trying to get the ball or even worse they just out position to intercept the ball, sometimes the ball is near them but the strikers arrive first, sometimes scoring, sometimes missing easy goals (that's happen in real life... but not that much). Players in real life tend to run to avoid corners or throw ins against them (in the game they could be near to the ball but don't care if the ball gives a corner or throw ins against them) or when the ball is last touched by an opponent defenders or goalkeepers don't mind if the ball goes to the final line (unless it is going to the goal) but on the game players tend to cut a ball that was easier if they let the ball goes of the pitch.

If we manage a lower league then is worse, I know that in real life lower league players are not Messis or Cristianos Ronaldos or Buffons, but they are football players even if they are amateur players, they know how to play, they sign for a team because they have something on them, or if they are real bad, they will never play for even an amateur team (that is real life, I was an amateur football player) I have some friends from my childhood that they have tried to play in amateur teams but NEVER been called after trials, on this game looks like amateur players could be everyone even if they don't know how to kick a ball. The bugs or whatever you call it are terrible, terrible mistakes from defenders, goalkeepers, midfielders, strikers that could happen in real life (well some of the mistakes are impossible in real life like a defender passing back the ball and the goalkeeper just looking or taking the ball inside their own goal) but not that often.

Stop a year or two producing the game (they just  look updates) and present us with a fresh game, better AI, better graphics, better tactics, better tranning, better interacrion with staff, players and media (is quite repetitive for the last years) better 3D, better game motor, better editor (I edit some stuff and is not reflected on the game, looks like the editor don't work properly). Don't forget is an investiment for the future of the game is not throwing away money, invest on 3D programmers or general programmers, technology and progress never stops.

These things above are just a part of what being called as bugs but never been solved for a lot of years now.

Thanks SI

 

Edited by SLB-Dark-Angel
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21 hours ago, Bobby_Zamora said:

Not that rare in Brazil, for instance.

It's quite common in Italy as well, more often as part exchange in deals involving multiple players and additional cash (e.g. Nainggolan from Roma to Inter for 24M + Santon and Zaniolo) but you can see the occasional straight swap (Milan and Juventus swapping Bonucci/Caldara).

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