Jump to content

Let's be honest, is anyone going to bother with FM19?


Recommended Posts

FM18 was an absolute shambles. Aside from the problems with the match engine which have been present for years (too easily broken with 3 up front tactics, defenders AI is terrible, weird goals, weird bugs like the ball hitting the post and just stopping dead while the goalkeeper just stares at it until an opposing striker just wanders over and taps it in) and more bugs than I can ever remember.

The fact half of these bugs (regens changing race, regens going bald on different graphics settings, players asking for a contract a couple of months after signing a new contract) made it into the beta phase is embarrassing, there's no excuse for them still being around towards the end of the release's lifespan. Then there's the constant crashes, more than I can remember. Then there's another glitch a couple of hours in that basically stops me from ever improving my facilities or youth level, the response is "we'll fix it in a future version."

I've gotten every FM since 2009 and probably poured an average of 400ish hours into each of them but there's absolutely no chance of me getting FM19, I wouldn't have it for free. Playing it is genuinely not worth the effort any more.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 275
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

1 hour ago, ZiggySawdust said:

Don't care. Won't be as annoying as my left winger turning out to be Michael Jackson.

So don't buy it.  My point was that obviously on an FM forum, you are going to get many dissenting opinions to yours. I stuck with 14 a long time, same with FM17.  

Your issues with the game would be much better served in actual bug reporting and the like.  Bugs happen.  We tend to forget this is a pretty damned ambitious game. There's a whole lot it does well.  I really love the new dynamics and the new medical system.

If you are getting issues and documenting them, and sending them saves to fix bugs, they will probably do that.  The game is a quantum leap ahead of a decade ago...and it isn't because of posts like these.  No offense.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably not. I don't bother with the 'beta' or launch versions anymore. 

I just wait for the inevitable third patch somewhere in February/March and pick it up on sale on the cheap. There's always a shop that will sell it for peanuts. I think I got FM17 for £7 and FM18 has been as low as £9.  For me, at that price I can put up with any perceived flaws in the game a lot easier than if I shelled out the launch price. 

But, it probably helps that FM isn't the only game I play and enjoy. There's always something to keep me busy. 

Will I get it eventually? I dunno. I bought FM18 earlier than I anticipated because the new features were 'sold' better than ever. I think if I do buy FM19 it'll probably be very late into its life-cycle, my backlog is plentiful at the moment. :D

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

Probably not. I don't bother with the 'beta' or launch versions anymore. 

I just wait for the inevitable third patch somewhere in February/March and pick it up on sale on the cheap. There's always a shop that will sell it for peanuts. I think I got FM17 for £7 and FM18 has been as low as £9.  For me, at that price I can put up with any perceived flaws in the game a lot easier than if I shelled out the launch price. 

But, it probably helps that FM isn't the only game I play and enjoy. There's always something to keep me busy. 

Will I get it eventually? I dunno. I bought FM18 earlier than I anticipated because the new features were 'sold' better than ever. I think if I do buy FM19 it'll probably be very late into its life-cycle, my backlog is plentiful at the moment. :D

I bought very late this year myself, got it for $14.  I have few other games I enjoy, but I was fine playing FM17 until the opportunity presented itself to get the new game.  We had to have a major home restoration due to a flood, and medical problems in the family -- and it led to a really low price. :) 

If people don't want to buy the game, I totally get it... I've had my "pauses" before and even skipped entire versions before.  I just don't get why people would come on strictly to bash the game -- which was all the OP was.  This game is absolutely not an "absolute shambles" that is for certain.   I've yet to have a crash, and my system is hardly "elite." 

I'd certainly be mad if I had a bug where I could no longer improve my youth facilities, but I haven't come across that one yet, either...

I get that you are not OP, @isignedupfornorealreason, I just quoted your post because we both got it at a very nice price. :D 

Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Smurf said:

Haven't bothered with FM for years. Still playing FM12. 

Don't need to sing it though, I'm fine with my decision to continue playing what I feel was their best edition.

And you can do the same. 

If it's not for you, then find something else. 

To be fair, I agree 2012 was the best version. Proves my point a bit as the game should be improving every year, it really hasn't. They just tweak things that don't need tweaking, fail to fix the issues they create and add utterly pointless, half baked, features. That's not to say all of the additions have been crap but haway.

27 minutes ago, jaysdailydose said:

So don't buy it.  My point was that obviously on an FM forum, you are going to get many dissenting opinions to yours. I stuck with 14 a long time, same with FM17.  

Your issues with the game would be much better served in actual bug reporting and the like.  Bugs happen.  We tend to forget this is a pretty damned ambitious game. There's a whole lot it does well.  I really love the new dynamics and the new medical system.

If you are getting issues and documenting them, and sending them saves to fix bugs, they will probably do that.  The game is a quantum leap ahead of a decade ago...and it isn't because of posts like these.  No offense.

All of the bugs I have mentioned have been reported by plenty of people, myself included. Just browse the bug forums, these issues have been going on for months with no sign of a fix. 

And most businesses appreciate customer feedback. I'm a long term customer having bought the last nine editions of the game and will no longer be purchasing their product due to a decline in quality. If enough people do the same it might provoke a positive change. On the other hand, if you're happy to spend your money on it, I'm not stopping you. I'm just giving my opinion.

21 minutes ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

Probably not. I don't bother with the 'beta' or launch versions anymore. 

I just wait for the inevitable third patch somewhere in February/March and pick it up on sale on the cheap. There's always a shop that will sell it for peanuts. I think I got FM17 for £7 and FM18 has been as low as £9.  For me, at that price I can put up with any perceived flaws in the game a lot easier than if I shelled out the launch price. 

But, it probably helps that FM isn't the only game I play and enjoy. There's always something to keep me busy. 

Will I get it eventually? I dunno. I bought FM18 earlier than I anticipated because the new features were 'sold' better than ever. I think if I do buy FM19 it'll probably be very late into its life-cycle, my backlog is plentiful at the moment. :D

Smart enough, I wish I'd done the same thing. Cost me an extra £4 for the editor to try and work around some of the inbuilt issues though.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ZiggySawdust said:

I wouldn't have it for free

See this is a lie...anyone would take a game for free. You can't complain that it's not worth the money if you haven't paid for it...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, I don't get the point of posts like this. At the end of the day, if you don't like the sound of a game. Don't buy it on release day. Wait for the game to have been out a while so it's on sale and/or plenty of people have said whether it's any good or not.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Neotropolis said:

See this is a lie...anyone would take a game for free. You can't complain that it's not worth the money if you haven't paid for it...

Games in the FM series  aren't something you can form an opinion on in a few hours, like you can with most other games. Therefore you can easily plough a few hundred hours into a save before realising there's a big game ruining bug or two that'll happily **** all over your progress and render the whole thing a bit pointless. It's also a game where it might take a few hundred hours before you get to the "fun" bit. Like getting a non-league team into the Premier League. Which makes it all the more annoying when you work to get to that point and the game decides to f you off.

 

I'd rather not waste my time, hence me not bothering with the game even if it was free. HTH.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

I always assume anyone who posts things like this is just not very good at the game and have to therefore resort to exploits. There is a very simple solution to the 3 striker exploit; do not use it to exploit the game. Nobody forces you to do it, the AI rarely uses it as a default tactic, and it is possible to defend against it in any case. The reason it is powerful for a user is because the AI cannot respond to it (hence it being an exploit). While I would like to see the ME improved to make it possible for the AI to respond properly in such situations (which I guess is not trivial), it is idiotic for a user to blame the game for the way they are choosing to play it. You may as well blame the game for the fact that you can reload matches until you win while you are at it. 

Not once in my 1000+ hours on the game have I seen the bug you describe. While I would by no means suggest the ME is perfect, it is easily the best it has ever been. It rewards the player for using common sense when building a tactic, and the football we see is actually pretty realistic. The one area it really needs to improve is with heavy, high pressing tactics, and with high tempo possession tactics. Guardiola is not an effective manager in this game, and the ME is to blame for that because it cannot replicate well the way he plays. Probably because it is hard to code, so I have patience on that. Bugs are an inevitable part of programming (anyone who does not know this has never done any coding, clearly). 

It is unfortunate if you experience a lot of crashes, because I think I have experienced a grand total of one in my entire time playing FM18. I cannot comment on the regen faces because I tend to turn them off (they are just unnerving, I find). 

Ultimately, if you do not want to play the game, or buy another version, that is entirely your call and I will not try to persuade you otherwise. However, 90% of things you say here are either cherrypicked, exaggerated or just plain wrong. Since I am guessing you clearly struggle with the game, I'd suggest either working out why or as you say just do not play it anymore. 

:applause::applause::applause:

Take a bow, Sir... I don't think it could be said better.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The op needs to sit in his room and make a football management sim as complex as FM and not have any problems.

I'm not going to sit here and say FM is perfect. We all know it's not, but it's a long way fromn the shambles that it would need to be to stop anyone buying FM19.

 

And when the op says he wouldn't take FM19 for free it's clear he's just on a troll.

 

3 hours ago, ZiggySawdust said:

Games in the FM series  aren't something you can form an opinion on in a few hours, like you can with most other games. Therefore you can easily plough a few hundred hours into a save before realising there's a big game ruining bug or two that'll happily **** all over your progress and render the whole thing a bit pointless. It's also a game where it might take a few hundred hours before you get to the "fun" bit. Like getting a non-league team into the Premier League. Which makes it all the more annoying when you work to get to that point and the game decides to f you off.

Sorry to be so blunt, but that is an utter load of rubbish. It does not take 200 hours to form an opinion on FM. Alos, if managing a lower league team is not fun for you, and you require being a Premier League team to have fun, then don't manage lower league teams. Pick a Premier League team. That is the beauty of FM. It lets you do that because it is so vast. 

Edited by anagain
Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, theballstopshere said:

I just wish that FM will finally create a game that better mimics current tactics and defensive setups that modern day coaches use, pressing, pressing triggers, gengenpressing...

not to have these is really a big slap in the face for a game that touts itself as the best in its kind.

I run almost exclusively high-pressing tactics... you can certainly get a very fair interpretation of this through the current tactics and instructions system.   Yes, you have to use both player and team instructions to really have a lot of control over it, but it can certainly be done, so it isn't fair to say it doesn't have these.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jaysdailydose said:

I run almost exclusively high-pressing tactics... you can certainly get a very fair interpretation of this through the current tactics and instructions system.   Yes, you have to use both player and team instructions to really have a lot of control over it, but it can certainly be done, so it isn't fair to say it doesn't have these.

I agree, I tend to use high-pressing tactics too, especially with my favourites Liverpool, and it's just as effective in FM18 as it is in real life.

Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, ZiggySawdust said:

Yeah, because a bloke in his bedroom, with no experience, working part time can produce work of the same quality from scratch as a full studio of salaried programmers who are basically updating a game that has been around for 13 years + whatever they could carry over from Champ Man. How silly of me to criticise something I can't fart out myself in a lazy weekend. How dare I have an opinion on something I've paid for. I'll tell you what, next time Mark Kermode doesn't like a film, why don't you tell him to shut his mouth unless he can write, direct, edit and act out every single part himself perfectly.

Also, have you not managed a lower league team? If I wanted to pick a Premier League team I would, I enjoy lower league management because of the payoff at the end of a long struggle. I get nothing from starting with a top four team. I like almost building from scratch but it's hard enough without the game hamstringing you. I

f they released a new Dark Souls and some poor sod slogged through it and inevitably died a thousand times but finally made it to the final boss. Then, as he was about to get stuck in and enjoy the moment he'd grafted for hours for, a giant middle finger fills the screen and the words LOL SEE U NEXT YER DICKHED!"" started circling around it, he'd be justifiably annoyed. Sorry to be so blunt, but you sound like you're the sort of person who, when the aforementioned chap decided to publicly vent his annoyance, would say "PFFT, U must be crap m8, go play minecraft or summink!"

I maintain I wouldn't have it given. After this year it's plainly no longer worth installing.

Mark Kermode has spent his working life in and around the world of film making. He hasn't sat playing a computer game with no working attachment to the makers of the game for nine years. He will know a bucketload more about the processes involved in making a film than you seemingly know about the processes involved in making a game.

 

It was you yourself that said "It's also a game where it might take a few hundred hours before you get to the "fun" bit. Like getting a non-league team into the Premier League". And what are the bugs that only stick a middle finger up to you once you get to the Premier League; 200 hours after you started management in non-league? Why do they only start then?

People do die thousands of times playing Dark Souls. That's what the game is famous for. Yes, it would be annoying if the final boss bugged out after hours of testing yourself to get there? Again, are you saying FM only bugs out when you've reached the pinnacle of the game; the so-called promised land of the Premiership?

Do non-league teams cope better against three strikers? Do they play a better pressing game?

You do a lot of ranting, but I see little substance.

I'll not turn around and say 'play better', because I don't think your problem is how you play the game. You've played the game happily for 9 years (quoting a good 400 hours per intsallment of the game), and suddenly you're so fed up with it that you wonder why anyone would buy FM19. As I said before, I do agree that FM is not perfect. There are little grievances I have with the game, but to go from 400 hours per year to hating the game with a rather overstated aggressive passion is a little bizarre.

Perhaps what you need is a break. I know the feeling. I played hundreds of hours of FM from the early 2000s until 2014. I then hit a block with the game. I skipped FM15 entirely, bought FM16 but struggled to get in to it (bar one save that saw me entertained for a month or two) and the FM17 was a huge struggle for me. The buzz wasn't there for me. The game began to niggle me and I started getting aggrieved with the smallest things. I made the decision to skip FM18 and play other games more. That was it for me until the World Cup came around and I got that itch to play FM again (that itch never really goes away, but I had started to feel I'd just be disappointed if I picked the game up again). I took the bait, and I'm happy to say it's been so much more fun for me than it has for many years. I'm loving the game. I see the flaws the game has, but because I'm enjoying my save I find it easier to look past those flaws. The years during which I've spent less time playing FM have helped me find more fun in it now I've picked it up again.

I really reckon a break may be what you need. You also do need to understand game's development better. FM is a huge game. And I mean huge. SI can attempt to fix small problems with the game; such as the AIs problems with dealing with three strikers, but that small change changes multiple other things. You can't change code for one small thing without having a huge knock on effect on many other areas of the game. I've followed MMOs for a long time, and they are similiarly huge games. You get to understand the problems that come with developing this sort of thing when you watch development of a genre carefully. I like to think of FM as an MMO of sorts. You may pay for yearly releases, but that's no different than paying a subscription (as I have done for many MMOs). Each yearly release of FM can be thought of as a big update to the game, as happens regularly in MMOs.

There was a recent thread that I commented in regarding the look of the 3D animation in FM. There was talk about changing things and a dev replied with the following comment that I found interesting. "Some areas are easier to recruit and pick up the knowledge within than others. Our match engine AI code is unbelievably complex and not the type of thing that you could make changes to a week after looking at it. If you can make changes after a year of learning it you'd be doing well! So that gives an idea of just how complex the game can be". FM is vast, and changes are not easily made.

Edited by anagain
Trying to fix some bizarre formatting
Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, SI really lost me this year. There has been bugs before in previous versions, but you could always look towards the final patch at least making amends and making the game playable. This year however SI left it with several serious flaws that for me just makes the game really frustrating. Especially the high and ridicoulous numbers of long shots. Seeing Phillipe Coutinho time and time again hitting the corner flag from just outside the penalty area is just a frustrating experience. Its not fun anymore, just frustrating.

Someone mentioned that it should be raised as a bug, however in my view that is exactly the problem: these observations have been raised as bugs by many people, a lot of evidence from the community provided but SI has chosen to respond to it by not correcting it. Probably because they wanted to move onto FM19. 

So im jumping off now.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll be buying it, but almost entirely because there is no alternative out there. It's a 5/10 game, it would score much better if SI would remove/change/update all the ridiculous interaction stuff instead of keeping it all there while adding new features to muddy the waters further.

FM is the Celtic of the football management world, there is no serious competition.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, ZiggySawdust said:

Games in the FM series  aren't something you can form an opinion on in a few hours, like you can with most other games. Therefore you can easily plough a few hundred hours into a save before realising there's a big game ruining bug or two that'll happily **** all over your progress and render the whole thing a bit pointless. It's also a game where it might take a few hundred hours before you get to the "fun" bit. Like getting a non-league team into the Premier League. Which makes it all the more annoying when you work to get to that point and the game decides to f you off.

As @anagain has already said, you don't need that long to form an opinion. 

However, for ghits and siggles, I'm going to humour your point at which you contradict yourself. Say it does take roughly 200 hours to form an opinion of the game, then you can't commit to not wanting it (even for free as stated) without having first played it and formulated that opinion...

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, molsen said:

Someone mentioned that it should be raised as a bug, however in my view that is exactly the problem: these observations have been raised as bugs by many people, a lot of evidence from the community provided but SI has chosen to respond to it by not correcting it. Probably because they wanted to move onto FM19. 

SI have to draw a line between fixing problems with the current FM and focussing on developing the new version. If not fixing an FM18 bug late in its life cycle means they have more time to potentially correct it in FM19 and make that a much better game overall, so be it.

22 minutes ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

I'll be buying it, but almost entirely because there is no alternative out there. It's a 5/10 game, it would score much better if SI would remove/change/update all the ridiculous interaction stuff instead of keeping it all there while adding new features to muddy the waters further.

FM is the Celtic of the football management world, there is no serious competition.

There is no competition because any serious competition SI had before was comprehensively defeated. FIFA Manager, Ultimate Soccer Manager, Premier Manager, the Eidos/BGS Championship Manager series, you name it.

I haven't pre-ordered FM19 yet, but I may well do once the new features start being announced. I'm always in an optimistic mood when a new FM is on the way, and apart from last year, I don't think I've ever been left feeling disappointed.

I skipped FM18 after playing the demo (for 15 hours), because I didn't like the changes SI had made to the UI, and I thought the ME had taken a couple of steps back. The most recent full version I played was FM17, which I saw as an ~8.5/10 game, with my biggest gripes being the horrific newgen faces and the limitations of international management.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You know, I'm not so sure on this competition thing. Games can be great without a direct competitor, or they can be awful. I do wonder if FM would be any better if CM were still being made. If LMA Manager suddenly reappeared on the block would SI decide to immediately implement one of the much requested features, for example better match graphics or more leagues? Would the interraction features get better overnight?

I don't know that it's that simple really. What FM has going for it is years and years of basis to build upon, a team that knows their product inside out and a scouting network to rival that of a Premier League club. If LMA Manager did suddenly turn up out of the blue would they have any of that?

Some will argue it will shake SI out of a complacency. I'm not sure there's any complacency there though. I'd be very surprised if SI don't already try their utmost to make FM the best game it can possibly be. In actual fact I recall replying to a thread on the subject of better match day graphics to say that I didn't think it was a necessity for FM, and that SI should concentrate on the emat and bones of the simulator. I was surprised to see a dev reply to say that SI are always looking to improve every aspect of FM, including the match day graphics. He went on to say they were actually recruiting a specialist graphics programmer. I looked on their jobs page, and there it was.

Also I have to broach the subject of why there isn't a competitor for FM right now. Is it simply because they they know they can't compete? I suspect that, as developers, anyone else looking to make a complex football management sim sees the effort that goes in to FM every year, knows the challenges SI face and maybe even knows they'd be hard pressed to do any better.

 

Would I love tos ee a serious competitor and find out what sort of a push it might have on SI, and FM? Of course. I'm just not sure it will happen, or how easy it is for a new developer to butt in to FM's market. As I have said elsewhere in this thread, I have a history of seriously playing MMO games. From that history I am more than familiar with the number of MMOs that have suddenly appeared on the market with aspirations to topple WoW. It's more the fans that claim this, perhaps, but I do know that in 15 years not one other MMO has come close to toppling WoW. Blizzard have the groundwork, the expertise and the fan network, and that will keep them going a long time. I suspect FM is in the same boat, all be it another genre.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, anagain said:

Some will argue it will shake SI out of a complacency. I'm not sure there's any complacency there though. I'd be very surprised if SI don't already try their utmost to make FM the best game it can possibly be.

I don't doubt that they work very hard, long hours, meeting deadlines, and are a very passionate group that make this game. However, some of the design decisions are baffling, some of the "issues" that remain in the game year after year (that genuinely serve no purpose other than to annoy us players) really make no sense. 

I could easily list countless things that are totally unnecessary in FM, have been there for years, and add nothing positive whatsoever to the experience. I'm not going to start here, because I've already done so in many other threads and this isn't that type of thread anyway, but my point is there are so many blatantly obvious things in FM that could be changed/removed to make it a lot better. I don't understand why they remain...

Link to post
Share on other sites

SI does have an inherent advantage over any other developer looking to create a football manager-esque game: the almost-30 years of iterative development.

They've got a database of players you'd have to spend millions of pounds and hundreds of thousands of man-hours to replicate, licenses for competitions you'd have to out-bid them to acquire and a suite of features within the game that no first effort from a studio would be able to match,

And then, on top of all of that, you've got a match engine that is, simply, far better than any other similar game has managed. Ever. In no small part because it's had almost 30 years of development. While I doubt anyone on the staff knows exactly how it works these days, it works well the overwhelming majority of the time. Which simply doesn't happen in any other game.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Loved every minute of FM18 so far. The best version I've played since CM2.

The dynamics system is a great addition and I hope they really run with this feature in the next version. Yes, bugs exist but they do not detract sufficiently from the overall experience for me not to get the next one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't honestly wait for FM19 to be ready, so that I can finally put FM18 on the shelf and never touch it again. I can't remember a version that frustrated me so much since FM14.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, molsen said:

Personally, SI really lost me this year. There has been bugs before in previous versions, but you could always look towards the final patch at least making amends and making the game playable. This year however SI left it with several serious flaws that for me just makes the game really frustrating. Especially the high and ridicoulous numbers of long shots. Seeing Phillipe Coutinho time and time again hitting the corner flag from just outside the penalty area is just a frustrating experience. Its not fun anymore, just frustrating.

Someone mentioned that it should be raised as a bug, however in my view that is exactly the problem: these observations have been raised as bugs by many people, a lot of evidence from the community provided but SI has chosen to respond to it by not correcting it. Probably because they wanted to move onto FM19. 

So im jumping off now.

Pretty much my point. They should either continue full support for a game until all of the major bugs are patched or just bite the bullet, release an official database update for £5-10 or something every year and release a new game every two instead of doing the standard FIFA nonsense of rushing out an inferior product every year to make cash from people who have a deranged sense of loyalty and would buy anything with the "brand" attached to it.

6 hours ago, Andrew_Goats_Gruff said:

If you’re not going to buy fm 19, then don’t start a thread about it.

I’m not going to buy Shadow of the Tomb Raider but i’ll now go and start a thread about it...

Have you bought pretty much every game in the Tomb Raider series so far? Have you spent thousands of hours playing Tomb Raider? Would you normally look forward to it? I'm giving my opinion, that's what forums are for. If you want everyone to agree with you and only talk about subjects you approve of I'd suggest forming a cult.

8 hours ago, anagain said:

Mark Kermode has spent his working life in and around the world of film making. He hasn't sat playing a computer game with no working attachment to the makers of the game for nine years. He will know a bucketload more about the processes involved in making a film than you seemingly know about the processes involved in making a game.

 

It was you yourself that said "It's also a game where it might take a few hundred hours before you get to the "fun" bit. Like getting a non-league team into the Premier League". And what are the bugs that only stick a middle finger up to you once you get to the Premier League; 200 hours after you started management in non-league? Why do they only start then?

People do die thousands of times playing Dark Souls. That's what the game is famous for. Yes, it would be annoying if the final boss bugged out after hours of testing yourself to get there? Again, are you saying FM only bugs out when you've reached the pinnacle of the game; the so-called promised land of the Premiership?

Do non-league teams cope better against three strikers? Do they play a better pressing game?

You do a lot of ranting, but I see little substance.

I'll not turn around and say 'play better', because I don't think your problem is how you play the game. You've played the game happily for 9 years (quoting a good 400 hours per intsallment of the game), and suddenly you're so fed up with it that you wonder why anyone would buy FM19. As I said before, I do agree that FM is not perfect. There are little grievances I have with the game, but to go from 400 hours per year to hating the game with a rather overstated aggressive passion is a little bizarre.

Perhaps what you need is a break. I know the feeling. I played hundreds of hours of FM from the early 2000s until 2014. I then hit a block with the game. I skipped FM15 entirely, bought FM16 but struggled to get in to it (bar one save that saw me entertained for a month or two) and the FM17 was a huge struggle for me. The buzz wasn't there for me. The game began to niggle me and I started getting aggrieved with the smallest things. I made the decision to skip FM18 and play other games more. That was it for me until the World Cup came around and I got that itch to play FM again (that itch never really goes away, but I had started to feel I'd just be disappointed if I picked the game up again). I took the bait, and I'm happy to say it's been so much more fun for me than it has for many years. I'm loving the game. I see the flaws the game has, but because I'm enjoying my save I find it easier to look past those flaws. The years during which I've spent less time playing FM have helped me find more fun in it now I've picked it up again.

I really reckon a break may be what you need. You also do need to understand game's development better. FM is a huge game. And I mean huge. SI can attempt to fix small problems with the game; such as the AIs problems with dealing with three strikers, but that small change changes multiple other things. You can't change code for one small thing without having a huge knock on effect on many other areas of the game. I've followed MMOs for a long time, and they are similiarly huge games. You get to understand the problems that come with developing this sort of thing when you watch development of a genre carefully. I like to think of FM as an MMO of sorts. You may pay for yearly releases, but that's no different than paying a subscription (as I have done for many MMOs). Each yearly release of FM can be thought of as a big update to the game, as happens regularly in MMOs.

There was a recent thread that I commented in regarding the look of the 3D animation in FM. There was talk about changing things and a dev replied with the following comment that I found interesting. "Some areas are easier to recruit and pick up the knowledge within than others. Our match engine AI code is unbelievably complex and not the type of thing that you could make changes to a week after looking at it. If you can make changes after a year of learning it you'd be doing well! So that gives an idea of just how complex the game can be". FM is vast, and changes are not easily made.

The three up front issue has been around for years and hasn't been addressed. "Ooh, it's really difficult" isn't an excuse for not addressing a major flaw in the game that has been apparent for a long time. Maybe I do need a break, maybe this has been building for years and this version is the final straw. Maybe I should stick to 2012 which in my opinion was the last very, very, good version. Still, if everyone who "took a break" stated the reason why, maybe we'd get a better game as a result.

On the "400 hours" thing, a lot of games are like that. Games usually involve working for some kind of achievement and it's not the graft that's the good bit it's the payoff. 

On the Kermode point. I've spent my entire life in and around video games and professionally reviewed them (i.e. someone decided to pay me for my opinion). Could I do the work of an entire, well backed, games studio? No. Could Kermode act like a one man Studio Canal. No.

Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, ZiggySawdust said:

Pretty much my point. They should either continue full support for a game until all of the major bugs are patched or just bite the bullet, release an official database update for £5-10 or something every year and release a new game every two instead of doing the standard FIFA nonsense of rushing out an inferior product every year to make cash from people who have a deranged sense of loyalty and would buy anything with the "brand" attached to it.

What constitutes a 'major bug' is very much subjective, unless it essentially renders the game unplayable for anyone (FM18 is by most accounts playable). What you might consider a major bug, someone else might find mildly annoying or even just fine. Likewise, you might not bat an eyelid over something that another user considers 'game-breaking'.

SI tend to release three major patch updates per FM. That might not sound like much to you, but I'm sure there are some notable developers who couldn't care less about supporting a game once it's out. SI aren't like that: if you report any bugs or issues in the relevant forum, they will look into them. And just because a bug hasn't been fixed after the last update does not necessarily mean they haven't at least tried to fix it.

Every few weeks or so, at least one user on the SI forums is bound to suggest Sports Interactive go down the 'games as a service' route or only release FM every two years. In my view, the latter route especially would be business suicide for SI, for whom a new annual FM release is probably their only source of regular income. Essentially, doubling the development time would likely mean major job losses and increased game costs (if SI can afford to release the next game at all).

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, ZiggySawdust said:

Considering I've owned the last nine versions, put a few thousand hours in and won trophies left right and centre in a mix of circumstances I don't think I'm that bad at the game. But I'll bite.

Imagine if playing three at the back meant you'd only concede four or five a season? Would you say "Just don't play three at the back, you're just exploiting the game and can't win properly?" Or would you acknowledge you have to limit yourself tactically because the match engine is broken and they're too busy trying to think of flashy, useless additions that look good on paper to fix it? For what it's worth, I've got a 4-5-1 Asymmetrical I'm quite proud of these days and a strikerless on the go for when I want to shut up shop. I would quite like to mess around with three forwards but as I've pointed out it breaks the game so I can't design a tactic with that because I couldn't take credit for it working. As I've said, I'm blaming the game because I've had to limit myself because of the broken ME and that's annoying in a football simulation.

 You'll have to narrow the "bug" down, as I've mentioned several. Have a look in the bug reports forums, plenty of people have had the same issue as me. Just because you've not got a nugget of **** in your sandwich doesn't mean everyone else isn't due a bout of ecoli poisoning.

I will admit, the barbs about being bad at the game were uncalled for, so I will retract them and ask for an apology. A beer too many last night left me without usual restraint. 

There is a significant difference between playing with 3 central defenders and 3 central attackers. A lot of teams play with 3 central defenders, and it is a system that has it's flaws and it's strong points. Namely, you gain some defensive solidity at the expense of a more forward thinking player. If there was a problem with 3 central defender tactics it would have been picked up early and fixed, because it is a common system. Further, I would be genuinely annoyed about it, because it would be game breaking since many teams (particularly in Italy) play this way. However, this is all hypothetical. 

For the 3 strikers, these systems basically do not exist in real life. You find me one example of a modern team who regularly plays with 3 central attackers. Almost every team you can name with 3 attackers play a single central player and two wider players who may indeed drift into central space, but do not spend the majority of their time there. Hence, you are really not being limited tactically by this. Very few people would be playing with 3 central strikers if it were not for the AI being unable to adapt to it. Instead, many people are playing that way. I do not find it limiting to use real life formations. You may as well claim you are limited tactically and blame the game because you will concede 20 if you play with a 145  tactic every match. The only time, in reality, a team would play with 3 central strikers is when really chasing a result.

I would never claim any game to be bug free, because that will never happen. There are a number of bugs I have come across in game (indeed, the implementation of the offside without touching the ball had something to do with a bug report I submitted a couple of years back, although I do not take sole claim for that). If you look at the bugs forum, however, there are a lot of threads which are not reporting bugs, but either people not playing the game well or fundamentally misunderstanding the mechanics of the game. For example, the number of times I read about the "bugged" transfer system, when in reality it is people not understanding how the transfer market and valuation works (again, I am not saying this cannot be improved, because it can be. The AI is not as good as it could be in the transfer market). Or people who complain about "dominating matches" (by which they mean they passed the ball around a lot and had a lot of long shots) but losing to a single shot (which is entirely realistic if a defensive side got a single good counter in a match).

I do enjoy your last metaphor, however, it made me smile. Indeed, I do understand that people experience the game differently, and again I probably should have taken a less confrontational approach. Instead of b******g at each other about these things, we should all probably work together to either make things better by separating the wheat from the chaff for the devs and letting them know precisely where they can improve to benefit everyone, or teaching eachother about how to use the game differently and to experience it in other ways. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sporadicsmiles said:

I will admit, the barbs about being bad at the game were uncalled for, so I will retract them and ask for an apology. A beer too many last night left me without usual restraint. 

There is a significant difference between playing with 3 central defenders and 3 central attackers. A lot of teams play with 3 central defenders, and it is a system that has it's flaws and it's strong points. Namely, you gain some defensive solidity at the expense of a more forward thinking player. If there was a problem with 3 central defender tactics it would have been picked up early and fixed, because it is a common system. Further, I would be genuinely annoyed about it, because it would be game breaking since many teams (particularly in Italy) play this way. However, this is all hypothetical. 

For the 3 strikers, these systems basically do not exist in real life. You find me one example of a modern team who regularly plays with 3 central attackers. Almost every team you can name with 3 attackers play a single central player and two wider players who may indeed drift into central space, but do not spend the majority of their time there. Hence, you are really not being limited tactically by this. Very few people would be playing with 3 central strikers if it were not for the AI being unable to adapt to it. Instead, many people are playing that way. I do not find it limiting to use real life formations. You may as well claim you are limited tactically and blame the game because you will concede 20 if you play with a 145  tactic every match. The only time, in reality, a team would play with 3 central strikers is when really chasing a result.

I would never claim any game to be bug free, because that will never happen. There are a number of bugs I have come across in game (indeed, the implementation of the offside without touching the ball had something to do with a bug report I submitted a couple of years back, although I do not take sole claim for that). If you look at the bugs forum, however, there are a lot of threads which are not reporting bugs, but either people not playing the game well or fundamentally misunderstanding the mechanics of the game. For example, the number of times I read about the "bugged" transfer system, when in reality it is people not understanding how the transfer market and valuation works (again, I am not saying this cannot be improved, because it can be. The AI is not as good as it could be in the transfer market). Or people who complain about "dominating matches" (by which they mean they passed the ball around a lot and had a lot of long shots) but losing to a single shot (which is entirely realistic if a defensive side got a single good counter in a match).

I do enjoy your last metaphor, however, it made me smile. Indeed, I do understand that people experience the game differently, and again I probably should have taken a less confrontational approach. Instead of b******g at each other about these things, we should all probably work together to either make things better by separating the wheat from the chaff for the devs and letting them know precisely where they can improve to benefit everyone, or teaching eachother about how to use the game differently and to experience it in other ways. 

Napoli when they were playing that 3-4-3 with Cavani, Hamsik and Lavezzi a few years ago. It wasn't three forwards but from what I remember it was three attacking players who were quite narrow a lot of the time. The three up front thing seems to highlight a bigger problem in the match engine where one on ones seem to hit the corner flag while cheap little crosses almost always result in goals, so any system that maximises short crosses to a player's feet will result in you bagging a ton whereas probing formations designed to put a player through on goal are hamstrung. I had a pretty prolific striker a few years back, he had good finishing, technique, composure etc. and he was bagging about 60 goals a season but the formation I'd built around him was giving him about 10-15 clear cut chances a match (you can argue that's unrealistic in itself). But yeah, he'd be in situations where you could reasonably expect him to hit the target and absolutely fluff it 9/10 times. However, the cheeky crosses, even in a crowded box, were usually the ones he planted.

I was quite good at that Heskey goal machine challenge with that system too when that was a thing, but him arseing it up was actually realistic. 

On the 1-4-5 point you made, imagine if that was defensively sound. That's basically my point. There's a woefully unrealistic part of the match engine and "ooh, just ignore it" isn't a good enough excuse. 

43 minutes ago, herne79 said:

@ZiggySawdust  You're absolutely entitled to complain and give the reasons why you're not going to buy FM19.  Personally I'd recommend waiting to make your mind up until you've had a play with FM19's free demo when available (assuming there will be one) in order to check that the issues you have are resolved (or at least tolerable) but if your mind's made up then up to you :thup:.

Of course at the same time you should also expect people with differing opinions to state their case, so in direct answer to your thread title - yes, lots are going to bother with FM19.  For me personally FM18 got off to a very shaky start, especially with some of the new UI elements (some of which I still don't like).  However I've never seen any of the bugs you mention in the OP:

- My game has never crashed, did you post about this in the Technical Help forum?  What was the response?

- I haven't seen the ball hit the post and stop dead with the keeper doing nothing since FM16 Beta when it was reported and fixed.  If you have further examples of it happening in FM18, post a match pkm in the Bugs forum and it'll be looked at.

- Neither have I seen regens changing race or going bald on different graphics settings, but in all fairness I don't change my graphics settings so this isn't something I would notice.  Again, have you raised this in the Bugs forum yourself?  I know you say Bug reports have been raised, but the more people who contribute by saying "yeh I've seen this too, here are examples" the more likely it becomes the report might get reprioritised.  Which will get looked at first - one person reporting an issue or 1000 people?

- I've also never experienced getting a couple of hours into a save and never being able to upgrade facilities or youth level (do you actually mean "youth level"? as that's something which only usually changes at season end and you've been promoted/had success).  All of these issues you are seeing seem strange, so just from a belt and braces perspective, have you verified all of your game files in Steam?  Have you followed the advice given here?  Are you using any form of modified database and/or unofficial 3rd party programs?

- And finally re. the so-called 3 striker "exploit", a couple of things on that.  As others have said above, simply don't use it if you think it's so game breaking.  I'll also mention that just sticking on 3 strikers doesn't equal a win button.  Have a look in the Tactics & Training forum and you'll see people trying to pull together their own 3 striker tactic with the specific intention of joining the 3 striker party and failing.  So there are 3 striker tactics and then there are 3 striker tactics, if you see what I mean.  It should also be mentioned that pretty much any formation can be every bit as successful as "3 strikers", whether that includes 3, 2, 1 or even no strikers, so long as it's set up properly.  You're always welcome to start a help thread in the T&T forum if you're struggling with non-3 striker systems :).

-My mate had al Alfa Romeo that didn't break down every three seconds once so I can only conclude they are every bit as reliable as an Audi. Having played previous versions I can say this is the most unstable version I have encountered, especially at this stage. It may be different for others, but for me it's been pretty bad. 

I probably should have uploaded the post glitch but I was too busy swearing at the screen to think clearly. I've only seen it happen once this game, it's definitely still there though. 

-Regens changing races is one of the most commonly reported bugs I've seen. People have been reporting it for months and some users have went quite in depth with it, posting possible triggers and causes. I could make a thread but I couldn't give any information other users haven't given several times. Clearing your cache is a temporary fix but it's guaranteed to happen again at some point and it's absolutely crippling for immersion when your black wing back decides he wants to be Chinese this month. I do recall seeing a post from someone in authority saying don't expect a fix for this any time soon, great craic.

- I convinced the board to upgrade the facilities but for some reason or other it keeps getting extended by a year for no reason and with no notification. I've posted a bug report about it with screenshots, saves before and after it happens and an approximate date it happens. Other users have reported the same issue. Expecting no help, I've also had to pay £4 for the editor so I can upgrade the facilities that should have been upgraded two seasons ago. I'm not sure if my youth level will increase, as the board request is still pending I'd imagine not and my youth team will be stuck playing York U18s for eternity but there you go. I've tried everything possible shy of dumping my main save and starting a new game, buying the editor was the last resort. 

 

 

-I've said plenty about the three striker thing, SI really should fix it, it would improve the match engine and everyone sticking their fingers in their ears and going lalala just pretend it isn't there is counter productive in my opinion.

Edited by ZiggySawdust
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, ZiggySawdust said:

Napoli when they were playing that 3-4-3 with Cavani, Hamsik and Lavezzi a few years ago. It wasn't three forwards but from what I remember it was three attacking players who were quite narrow a lot of the time.

Still not three strikers though...that's one striker, an attacking mid and a winger/inside forward. 

That Napoli tactic is not too dissimilar from the one Chelsea used under Conte, with a main striker and two predominantly wide players playing off him but cutting inside. It's the same as what Napoli did. Cavani up top and Hamsik and Lavezzi out 'wide' but then cut in for more attacking options.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's unlikely that I'll buy FM2019.   My skepticism has been building for several iterations now and I don't see the improvements in the match engine that I expect.  Every year I've played has felt less like football management and more like Football Manager management.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I always wonder about the mindset of people who decide that when they don't like a product anymore, instead of just, you know, not using said product and moving on with their lives, they decide instead to write a tear-stained thread on a forum about it.  Like, how desperate for attention do you have to be?  It's almost better if it's a deliberate troll, as at least that would have some awful BANTZ aspect to it.  As it is, it's just an old man on his stoop shouting at people that don't care.  At best, SI get nothing useful, and at worst outright insulted (although I'd imagine the OP venturing "I could make this game in a weekend" is more hilarious than insulting, given how quickly it evaporates any shred of a point they once had). 

I give it 3 regen strikers out of 10, and only that high because having three would annoy them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

At first i really disliked this version of fm but i kept on going and eventually after deleting it then refusing to be beating and loading it up again i worked out what worked for me, this has been the most testing version to date and for that i love it afterall, being a manager of a football club was never meant to be easy ;) 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • FrazT locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...