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I;m currently managing wolves, but I'm attempting to recreate Liverpool's 4123. I'm an amateur when it comes to creating tactics but one thing I'm trying to do is recreate Andrew Robertson's role in Liverpool's current side. I actually have in in my side and am currently using him as a WB (A)with the PI to stay Wider as he is often seen bombing up and down the left hand side and crossing the ball into the box. Is this somewhat accurate?

 

Also is this tactic a fair representation of current Liverpool? Thanks.

 

image.png

Edited by Nub_Nels

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Well, LFC under Klopp actually play in a 4-3-3 without DM. In LFC's real-life formation, even wide forwards (Salah and Mane) are not wingers but outer strikers. However, when translating their way of playing into FM, they are more of Inside Forwards (moreover, Salah in my view is rather a Raumdeuter), so you have basically set the formation as it should look like (except for DM, but given that you manage Wolves, maybe it's not a bad idea to use a DM).

As for Robertson, he can be utilized in many ways as a left back, depending on a particular match and/or opponent. In most cases though, he is either FB attack or WB support.

I'll come back later to tell you more on the tactic, but what I can immediately observe is that you set a number of wrong TIs.

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There's lots of topics on Liverpool/Klopp already with peoples interpretations of it so i'm just going to focus on yours as I think you've gone a bit extreme with the instructions:

  • Run At Defence - Why?  WB-A, IF-S, IF-A and CF-S already Dribble Often.  Who else do you expect to dribble by adding this instruction?
  • Exploit Left Flank + Exploit Right Flank - They are already attacking due to the roles you've selected, do you really want to focus play down the flanks and make them more attacking?  Especially when your already on attacking mentality?
  • Look For Overlap - Do you need to make the two FBs even more attacking?  Do the wide forwards really "Hold Up Ball" to wait for them as thats what this instruction tells them to do.
  • D-Line & Pressing is already high on Attacking, do you need to add to it?  You can't really create the pressing Liverpool do and pressing super high can end up pinning opponents in which is what happened sometimes in RL and then Liverpool struggled to break down the opponents.
  • Not sure about fluid either, you have a supportive team due to the duties you've selected and Liverpool tend to attack quickly and use space rather moving to give close support.

I'd tweak the midfield roles + personnel, I think Neves should spread play from deep with the two CM being good BBM/BWM types with one better at attacking, maybe a BBM-S + CM-A.  You already have 4 wide players, with the IF's moving through the channels and the CF moving into them, I don't think you need one of the midfielders to also move wider into the channels (MEZ).

I think Robertson crosses more from Byline so WB-A is the closest default role+duty for him.  FB-A with PI's is another option as I don't think he actually takes opponents on by dribbling much but I could be wrong.

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2 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

There's lots of topics on Liverpool/Klopp already with peoples interpretations of it so i'm just going to focus on yours as I think you've gone a bit extreme with the instructions:

  • Run At Defence - Why?  WB-A, IF-S, IF-A and CF-S already Dribble Often.  Who else do you expect to dribble by adding this instruction?
  • Exploit Left Flank + Exploit Right Flank - They are already attacking due to the roles you've selected, do you really want to focus play down the flanks and make them more attacking?  Especially when your already on attacking mentality?
  • Look For Overlap - Do you need to make the two FBs even more attacking?  Do the wide forwards really "Hold Up Ball" to wait for them as thats what this instruction tells them to do.
  • D-Line & Pressing is already high on Attacking, do you need to add to it?  You can't really create the pressing Liverpool do and pressing super high can end up pinning opponents in which is what happened sometimes in RL and then Liverpool struggled to break down the opponents.
  • Not sure about fluid either, you have a supportive team due to the duties you've selected and Liverpool tend to attack quickly and use space rather moving to give close support.

I'd tweak the midfield roles + personnel, I think Neves should spread play from deep with the two CM being good BBM/BWM types with one better at attacking, maybe a BBM-S + CM-A.  You already have 4 wide players, with the IF's moving through the channels and the CF moving into them, I don't think you need one of the midfielders to also move wider into the channels (MEZ).

I think Robertson crosses more from Byline so WB-A is the closest default role+duty for him.  FB-A with PI's is another option as I don't think he actually takes opponents on by dribbling much but I could be wrong.

Thanks a lot. I'm really wanting to get into tactic making rather than just using plug and play tactics. I've edited the tactic with the feedback you've given. I've given Neves the DLP D role (Considered Regista but thought that was too aggressive in the centre) the option of more direct passing and more risky passes and robertson to cross from byline and run wide w ball. 

Edit: Jota and Jimenez should switch positions

image.png

Edited by Nub_Nels

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So, let's resume. Where I agree with you is LFC's team shape. Now, on the TIs:

mentality - standard (perhaps even counter)

shape - fluid (or even very fluid)

D-line - higher

pressing - much more (I would just reduce it a bit for DCs via their PIs)

tempo - higher

passing - shorter (on occasion mixed)

build up - play out of defense, work into box

crossing - low crosses

F9

IF(sup)                                                                                    RMD

CAR           BWM(sup)          BTBM

 

FB(att)              DCL(stop)             DCR(cov)              WB(sup)

SWK(sup)

 

NOTE: you might try the MCL as MEZ(att) or CM(att) sometimes, just to see if it works in the right way.

However, you can play like LFC with the attack mentality as well. In that case, the TIs would be:

shape - fluid

d-line - normal

pressing - more (not much more)

tempo - normal (occasionally higher)

passing - shorter (as above)

build up and crossing - same as above

Players' roles & duties - basically same as above, except for BWM whom I would switch to a defend duty

Anyway, if you want to replicate Klopp's LFC style of play through Wolves, you should bear in mind that the two teams have a number of differences. So the big question is what it's going to look like when applied on FM.

 

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4 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

So, let's resume. Where I agree with you is LFC's team shape. Now, on the TIs:

mentality - standard (perhaps even counter)

shape - fluid (or even very fluid)

D-line - higher

pressing - much more (I would just reduce it a bit for DCs via their PIs)

tempo - higher

passing - shorter (on occasion mixed)

build up - play out of defense, work into box

crossing - low crosses

F9

IF(sup)                                                                                    RMD

CAR           BWM(sup)          BTBM

 

FB(att)              DCL(stop)             DCR(cov)              WB(sup)

SWK(sup)

 

NOTE: you might try the MCL as MEZ(att) or CM(att) sometimes, just to see if it works in the right way.

However, you can play like LFC with the attack mentality as well. In that case, the TIs would be:

shape - fluid

d-line - normal

pressing - more (not much more)

tempo - normal (occasionally higher)

passing - shorter (as above)

build up and crossing - same as above

Players' roles & duties - basically same as above, except for BWM whom I would switch to a defend duty

Anyway, if you want to replicate Klopp's LFC style of play through Wolves, you should bear in mind that the two teams have a number of differences. So the big question is what it's going to look like when applied on FM.

 

Why the work into box-TI? They shoot and cross plenty once they are into the final third. I don’t see a lot of patience - only when opponent sits quite deep they tend to build their attacks quite slow from the back. Or is it for pressing reasons - getting the team around the box? 

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1 hour ago, Gegenklaus said:

Why the work into box-TI? They shoot and cross plenty once they are into the final third. I don’t see a lot of patience - only when opponent sits quite deep they tend to build their attacks quite slow from the back. Or is it for pressing reasons - getting the team around the box?

Work into Box doesn't mean they will not shoot at goal, but that they'll not do it from long distances too often and instead will try to create chances from which shots would have a better probability of conversion into goals. In addition, a higher tempo also implies a greater number of shot attempts compared to lower tempos. Finally, the attack mentality (in the second tactic) encourages more shots as well. Of course, you can switch off WBIB during a match (and even try with Shot at Sight) if you see that players are struggling to create better-quality chances within the penalty area. Judging by their real-life matches, LFC players for the most part tend to shoot only when a shot is the best available option at the moment. So yes, you'll see them shooting from distance at times, but not at all costs.

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13 hours ago, Nub_Nels said:

Also is this tactic a fair representation of current Liverpool?

Do they exploit the flanks?

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I'd change the midfield 3 to

BWM Support DLP Defend BWM Support (in a midfield 3 not a 2cm 1dm) as using this you end up with a very narrow triangle in the middle of the pitch where as with liverpool the wider 2 BWM are far apart and press up the pitch with the front 3. Or possibly 2xCarrieros

Put get further forward on both BWM and put closing down to less on the DLP, as usually the centre of the 3 for liverpool usually stays on the half way line and covers the full backs.

I think they will probably be the best roles to press high and win back the ball

Also put the IF's to sit narrow

Team instructions on cross low.

Sweeper keeper on support, take short kicks

You need lots of aggression, work rate, team work and stamina for your midfielders and forwards in this formation or it wont work properly. If they are low in these areas it will result in them running near to the opposing player and not getting a tackle in, where as if you have the attributes mentioned your players will get stuck in more. This is one of the biggest mistakes cause you'll be screaming at the screen why arent they following the instructions and the reason will be because the players lack the attributes to do it.

Edited by MagicHat

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8 hours ago, Robson 07 said:

Do they exploit the flanks?

I picked this as I think they attack down the wings a lot, mostly on the left hand side

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