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dannysheard

City are awful on this game!!!!

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Has anyone ever seen Man City be remotely good on this game?

I've finished about 9-10 season now (across four saves) and every time they are truly awful, mostly not getting top four and certainly never challenging for the title. Not even once?

 

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You need to be more specific if you want people to take your post seriously

Is it a player data issue, is it an AI squad building issue. What is awful, games being drawn, not enough won, too many lost is it City that are bad or other clubs overpower. Are the formations wrong etc etc, I think you understand

If you have completed 9-10 seasons then maybe post the top 6 for each season

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8 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

You need to be more specific if you want people to take your post seriously

Is it a player data issue, is it an AI squad building issue. What is awful, games being drawn, not enough won, too many lost is it City that are bad or other clubs overpower. Are the formations wrong etc etc, I think you understand

If you have completed 9-10 seasons then maybe post the top 6 for each season

I've not got my old saves as I've started a new one and saved over the top, but I just know that they are never a threat to me as Liverpool manager.

They lose far too many games, often at home to not particularly good sides. Their tactics seem OK as far as I can see and they buy decent, sensible players but it's just a shame that they don't seem to ever do well on the saves I've had.

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Thanks for the reply

What will be interesting is to hear what success they get in other people's saves. Also and this is quite key are you playing the game (league) in FULL match simulation. This can make a lot of difference

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As @MrPompey said, can you provide us with more details? Such as the tactics they've employed? Are they having multiple injury issues (I know RL Pep demands so much from his players, if this is simulated, does it lead to players being injured often? Or players with lower than average energy levels?)

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5 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

Thanks for the reply

What will be interesting is to hear what success they get in other people's saves. Also and this is quite key are you playing the game (league) in FULL match simulation. This can make a lot of difference

Will it automatically be on full detail if I'm managing in the Premier League?

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30 minutes ago, dannysheard said:

Will it automatically be on full detail if I'm managing in the Premier League?

Yes, it will.

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I fully agree with @dannysheard, City are genuinely woeful. Never have I seen Guardiola get beyond a season from game start. They always (every single game) sign Gaya and Aspas, lose a load of matches, struggle to get into the top 4, Pep gets sacked and each successive manager does equally poorly.
In my longest save yet (2028) they don't even have a Sugar Daddy any more and are just an average mid-table club with an ageing squad. Took 11 years to completely collapse from being mega rich with boundless potential. This is with me managing in the Premier League and in full detail. 

The problem is the AI managers haven't the foggiest about squad building, financial management, thinking ahead. So a club with City's resources will get destroyed by stupidity. 

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I agree with @..Valhalla.. about their lack of squad building knowledge.

But I will also agree with him and the OP about City being woeful. In my save they drove themselves into such financial ruin that they were relegated to the Championship in my current save. They lost most of their big name players for reduced fees and even lost some on frees...

Pep has also just been sacked as Crystal Palace manager which tells you all you need to know about his rep these days...

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I'm pretty sure I saw them win the title in the first one or two seasons a couple of times...often seems to be that they get better once they sack Pep and hire Luis Enrique for some reason. I do wonder if its something to do with how players can struggle to break down defensive teams, perhaps Pep in the game is also not good enough sometimes? They always turn up in the big games. Would explain why someone like Sarri, who often gets compared to Pep in terms of style and influence ("sarriball") but who has "Direct" as passing style on FM18 seems to do really well.

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On my save (in 2035 now) Man City are very up and down but haven't been reduced to a mid table club yet. They've finished 2nd in the league six times, but mostly between 4th and 6th, with a lowest position of 9th. They've gone through some mangers (Pep was sacked after season one, and no other manager has lasted more than three seasons). Zidane, Marcelino, Spalletti, Simeone, Kollner, Emery, Allegri, Zidane again and Conte has just been sacked with them struggling in 14th position in December. There has been some cup wins though, a couple of league cups, one FA cup, one Champions League and FOUR Europa Leagues.

Also, on my save they didn't sign Gaya!

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I think it's largely down to Pep's in game tactical approach. It doesn't get good results.

If they sack him early enough and get a good replacement they can remain a force, they pick up the Title every once in while in my current save.

Mourinho does really well, I've had a couple of 20 year saves and he's still at United in both of them, in one of them he won the Premier League in 14 out of 15 seasons.

So the problems Pep, not City per se.  

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1 minute ago, Mr U Rosler said:

So the problems Pep, not City per se. 

I suppose an interesting experiment would be to make Jose manager of City and Pep United and see what happens there?

Maybe run that several times and see what happens?

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@..Valhalla.. the only thing I will advise (I'm sure you'll know already) is to set yourself as another Prem manager. That way it runs the matches through the full sim for best results.

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I've done that, and also made sure neither manager disliked their new club (or the clubs disliked them). Just to make sure there were no other forces at work.

 

EDIT - so far City are flying and United are struggling. Hmmm...

Edited by ..Valhalla..

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2 hours ago, MrPompey said:

You need to be more specific if you want people to take your post seriously

Is it a player data issue, is it an AI squad building issue. What is awful, games being drawn, not enough won, too many lost is it City that are bad or other clubs overpower. Are the formations wrong etc etc, I think you understand

If you have completed 9-10 seasons then maybe post the top 6 for each season

To be fair he’s right, I don’t think it’s the players at City I think it’s the tactics that are employed by Guardiola..  Mourinho and his tactics seem to be better with the ME,  managers such as Guardiola, Klopp and Pochettino seem to struggle, they all play more attacking?

try changing the managers around with the top 6 clubs and see how the teams do then,  Man U seem to win countless titles under Mourinho.. maybe he can win countless with city?

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3 hours ago, DamianJMcGrath said:

Are you in their league?

I've seen them win the title a few times. They ALWAYS sign Jose Gaya as well :D

Agreed! I restarted and end of first season they signed Gaya, Pep got scaked and they finished 6th. Ancelotti has now taken over. Will keep an eye on them.

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After the first season with both managers swapping teams, Man City won the league easily, while Man United were way off the pace; 19 points behind in 5th place. 

Mourinho has a net spend of £144m in a single transfer window while Pep spent £37m net at United.

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3 minutes ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

After the first season with both managers swapping teams, Man City won the league easily, while Man United were way off the pace; 19 points behind in 5th place. 

Mourinho has a net spend of £144m in a single transfer window while Pep spent £37m net at United.

Is Pep still in the job or did he get sacked?

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I'll run more seasons once I feed the kids, Pep did not lose his job and was "content" so doesn't look like he will right away. 

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Can anybody create a save, disable transfers in July, then give Mourinho the job of any top 6 side and run it on holiday for a season.  From what Iv seen the game Loves Mourinho and his employer tactics...

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23 minutes ago, wayne'o said:

Can anybody create a save, disable transfers in July, then give Mourinho the job of any top 6 side and run it on holiday for a season.  From what Iv seen the game Loves Mourinho and his employer tactics...

This is what I've just done. Turned off first transfer budgets, sent him to City, and ran a holiday. He won the league easily with City.

Currently playing season 2, let's see how he fares...

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2 minutes ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

This is what I've just done. Turned off first transfer budgets, sent him to City, and ran a holiday. He won the league easily with City.

Currently playing season 2, let's see how he fares...

Cool 👍..  Iv been saying for ages there’s a biased against Ai managers using attacking tactics compared to Mourinho..

can you run it with Mourinho in charge of Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea?  Maybe even a mid table team..

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1 hour ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

@Neotropolis my PC can fly through a season in a few minutes so won't take long. 

A bit of topic here (sorry!). But what kind of specs are on that PC? I have a pretty serious gaming computer (i7 8700K, 24gb DDR4, Geforce 1080TI and so on) and a season would at least take me 35-45 minutes. 

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13 minutes ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

This is what I've just done. Turned off first transfer budgets, sent him to City, and ran a holiday. He won the league easily with City.

Currently playing season 2, let's see how he fares...

And the matches simulated in full detail? If you started unemployed, it won't be full detail by default.

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2 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

And the matches simulated in full detail? If you started unemployed, it won't be full detail by default.

I am managing Stoke on holiday, all staff taking care of everything, I'm using a tactic that I know is solid and won't get me sacked. 

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6 minutes ago, Karnack said:

A bit of topic here (sorry!). But what kind of specs are on that PC? I have a pretty serious gaming computer (i7 8700K, 24gb DDR4, Geforce 1080TI and so on) and a season would at least take me 35-45 minutes. 

Mine is similar spec to be honest, "a few minutes" was a bit of an exaggeration :lol: 

Doesn't take very long though with only England running. 

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3 minutes ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

I am managing Stoke on holiday, all staff taking care of everything, I'm using a tactic that I know is solid and won't get me sacked. 

:thup:

 

Curious to see what the rest of the seasons produce. It's an interesting experiment.

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Just now, ..Valhalla.. said:

Mine is similar spec to be honest, "a few minutes" was a bit of an exaggeration :lol: 

Doesn't take very long though with only England running. 

Ahh, didn't factor that part in. I usually do it with 8+ nations. Will try one nation then! :)

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I'm sorry but I don't really understand this story of "full detail".

The game should reflect as much as possible the real team performances, whatever the detail. It just sounds like an excuse to justify the many incongruences of the game.

According to me, it's more a matter of manager approach, tactics and research.

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Season 2:

City champions again. Mourinho remains.

United 4th. Pep remains.

I might start again with a few more nations loaded out of curiosity. 

 

EDIT: yeah I have to go out for a few hours so setting up a new game with England, Spain, Italy loaded for more activity. Gonna swap the managers around and run 5 seasons holiday to see how they do.

Edited by ..Valhalla..

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4 minutes ago, Federico said:

I'm sorry but I don't really understand this story of "full detail".

The game should reflect as much as possible the real team performances, whatever the detail. It just sounds like an excuse to justify the many incongruences of the game.\

There's no excuses being made. If matches are simulated in full detail, it makes use of the ME, rather than the quick sim engine. As far as I understand it, it's like this: The quick sim engine is a lot simpler and will use squad CA and (club?) rep (IIRC) to simulate these results. So no real intricacies such as manager attributes, tactical adjustments etc. 

What @Valhalla is showing so far, is that Mourinho's approach seems to "work" better than Pep's in the current FM. 

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1 minute ago, HUNT3R said:

What @Valhalla is showing so far, is that Mourinho's approach seems to "work" better than Pep's in the current FM. 

 

Oh it absolutely does. I've never beaten a Mourinho team in FM18, in the league, even when we were flying high in all comps (unbeaten, perfect morale... yadda yadda).

Man City are usually a gimme :D 

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Alright @HUNT3R

But still I think the game should reflect as much as possible the real team performances whatever the detail.

Does the game start on full detail whatever the team you decide to pick and whatever the leagues you want to run?

I think the majority of user don't play the game on full detail, they'd rather run the most leagues as possible, as many as they machines can cope with. If this is true, and I tend to think it is, does every rant or complain about unrealistic results/achievements could be bounced away pointing on the fact they aren't running the game on full detail?

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The default is quick sim engine for competitions other than those you are competing in plus a selection of international tournaments using full sim for the latter stages

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Thank you @Barside

I perfectly know that, and my intention was only to prove the inconsistence on stating the game must run on full detail in every aspect of it to see realistic achievements/results.

I'm sure what my friends @MrPompey and @HUNT3R said is true, but in my opinion this is not how it should work.

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14 minutes ago, Federico said:

I perfectly know that, and my intention was only to prove the inconsistence on stating the game must run on full detail in every aspect of it to see realistic achievements/results

I agree that both should give realistic results and for the most part, they both do just that. It's just that in this instance, whatever Pep seems to want to do (especially in comparison to Mourinho) just sees him under-performing too regularly. Now, of course this isn't how it should be (and I don't know what the cause is), but it's not a simple fix as I'm sure you know Federico (I've learned not to call you Frederico :p) but it can't and won't be ignored by SI.

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It may be worth contacting the Man City researcher via the Man City data forum and asking him to review this thread.

From what I read here it may be Pep's reputation and preferred formation, perhaps in AI mode the right players are not being selected for the right formation positions if they are not being successful. This could be checked looking at team selection when Man City are managed by AI Pep.

This is actually a really good time to be raising this as the researchers will be starting to submit data updates to the Head Researchers shortly

As I mentioned above and restated by Federico I would repeat that the matches need to be played in full sim mode.so you need to select a Country, List of Countries or a Specific League here. If you select ALL (This is Full Match Engine) and if you select (None) or leave it by default, then you will be referring to "Quick Match Engine. This is key.

Apologies if you have done this but if not the guy with the superfast PC could check this is set and run say 10 Premiership seasons and see how that looks in terms of end of season position and players selected per position

This is a really good post and discussion area

 

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Iv watched so many people’s saves on YouTube in past 2 months that I was getting the impression Mourinho was the most  officiant Ai manager,  I think it’s down to his tactics?   This woukd prove Ai managers such as Guardiola who uses offensive tactics are less effective?    Also making it easier for human managers?

think if every Ai managed team was a replica of Mourinho? Woukd make the game a lot harder?

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@Nic Madden - Hi Nic - Do you have any views here? Of course we need to remember we are talking about ME for FM18 where as you are working on FM19 ME

 

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