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FrazT

Lesson- read the fine print!

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Currently in 2021 and watching the improvement in a 21-year-old striker that my HOYD bought at the start of the game for 75K.  Gave him a few games last season and now he is up in the first team squad as the no4 striker and doing well.  Noted that his in-game value had shot up to around 8 million after giving him a new contract and just at the end of the August transfer window, saw the inbox message that we all love to get: " Chelsea in bid for Smith".  Saw the bid was around 20 mill, nearly dropped off my chair, thought that they must want him badly and negotiated to 30 mill, which they accepted.!

Had the deal confirmed, spoke to the player to wish him luck etc and then the next item in the inbox was to tell me that Dunfermline ( who the boy had been purchased from ) would be due about 10.5 million due to the 40% of next sale clause in his original purchase!  What!!

Turns out the HOYD had agreed to this clause, I hadn't checked the details at the time ( although I confirmed the sale) and it had lurked there for years and if it was included in the details of the offer, I had missed that too.  My fault, but has anyone else had this type of situation where lack of attention to detail has cost them?

I recall playing as MU about 10 years ago(?) not registering Van Nistelrooy for the CL because his name was at the bottom of the squad screen and I neede to scroll down one space to see him and didnt!

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Just now in my new Ajax save I managed to have the entire squad bar my new signings (tutors like Pirlo) who had been added at the confirmation of their transfers' at my door demanding to know why they'd been left out of the training camp squad. I managed to talk all but Onana down, then noticed I could actually still register them...Onana is still upset, worrying its going to cost me in my CL qualifier.

My best player on a Real Sociedad save on FM15, Eneko something (I want to say Llorente but it would be a weird coincidence if I'd had star right wing newgens named that from the same club's academy four years apart) had a £33.5m release clause, negotiated when he was only worth about £5m. He agreed to move to Chelsea the day after I won the Champions League, nothing I could do, and whilst £33.5m was a lot more money then than it is now, he was instantly worth closer to £50m at Chelsea and tore it up in the Premiership as well as doing back-to-back CLs with different clubs.

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It's almost standard when buying any youngster - the sell-on clause is always there.

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22 minutes ago, Snorks said:

It's almost standard when buying any youngster - the sell-on clause is always there.

I wont miss this again:rolleyes:

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Biggest mistake I ever made was failing to spot an average youth player on £1000 p/w had requested a 'match highest earner' clause when I offered him a contract extension. His wage shot up to £95000 p/w when I resigned Diogo Jota.

Yes, I purchased the data editor. 

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And the selling team never lets a youngster go for less than 30% sell on it seems, especially if the fee isn't right first time around!

I've been stung a few times letting the champions league squad be picked automatically without inspecting it properly and also when negotiating new contracts, missing a sneaky minimum fee release clause :(

 

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Signed a promising youth player before, had he had a release clause of 5m. Which I thought was ok. 

Around 3 seasons he was worth around 40m. 

If only I had offered a new contract and upped the 5m release clause I'd never have lost him to a rival... 

Ah well. 

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23 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Add the clause yourself when you make the original offer... Then remove and exclude from all negotiations :brock: you pay a little extra for the fee, but dont lose mega millions a few years later if you sell the player

Sneaky devil :cool:

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I did this in FMC '15. Still remember it!

Quote

I just won the Championship with Sunderland. Upon my promotion, the board gave me a 15 million transfer kitty. First I signed two midfielders for about a million each. I had a DL on loan from Chelsea, he did very well for me so I wanted to extend the loan for the coming season too. Chelsea was an affiliate club for me at the time, so I had no issues with extending the loan. Excellent. However, just a few days later, I received a memo saying that the partnership with Chelsea had ended, due to both clubs being in the same league. My on-loan DL then returned to Chelsea. I really wanted him, so I made another loan offer and Chelsea accepted again after some negotiating. But here's where I messed up. I did not read the contract properly. Chelsea suddenly wanted 775k per month, and I missed it. I accepted, and booom there went my entire transfer budget. To make things even worse, when I realised my mistake I cancelled the loan and expected to get at least 8-9 million of my transfer budget back (the deal said "per month". I had the player for two months max). But I didn't receive a single penny, apparently I paid 775k x 12 straight up front, so now I have no money and no left back!!

Somebody shoot me.

 

Edited by Footix

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I had something somewhat similar to this happen in my save.

I bought a 19-year-old LB from Flamengo on a free, albeit with a "20% off next sale" clause. No more than six months after buying him, Flamengo wanted to buy him back; thanks to the clause, they'd actually be paying 20% less than they were offering.

Good think I managed to drive them off, but that was a first to me.

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wrt the sell-on clauses other than westy's tactic which I used to use a lot, I tend to just set in 10% profit next sale as non-negotiable. That way I'm funding the smaller clubs to keep producing talents for me to buy up and sell on. Seems more real too - sure, sometimes you'll get a big sell-on clause (read somewhere Fiorentina were expecting 30% of any prospective transfer of Ante Rebic on the back of his WC performances) but I think smaller ones are probably quite common.

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I think it was in FM16 or 17, I was getting a lot of bids for Emre Can all around £50 million while he was worth about £35 million, which i didn't think was good enough. He was getting unhappy so a offered him a new contract. Didn't spot the minimum fee release clause of £43 million... :mad:

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For me its when i offer a player out on loan for 250k a month and full wage... And u get into a negotiation and the opposition sneak in a purchase fee clause... I never check. 

In my leverkusen series im changing tactic every season, so i didnt need wingers one year... Loaned my best two to RBL for one season.... They were probably valued at around 60m each and id rejected offers of 100m...but RBL got them both for 20m using a loan clause

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One of the worst nightmares I had of 'not reading the small print ', was on a Derby save a few years ago. I'd managed to sign Carlton Cole which at the time was a bit of a coup. Anyway he managed to score lots of goals which got me promoted. Second season in the premier league, I started bringing in better players for better wages. What I hadn't noticed was in Cole's contact he had a clause of match the highest earner. To cut a long story short, I ended up being stuck with an old over paid below average premiership player. it virtually crippled me financially and totally killed my game!

Another example of this was when I was managing in Scotland in the lowest league. I had an awesome season bringing in players on amateur contacts and got promoted. Next season I obviously wanted to sign better players and the only way was to pay them a wage. Only problem was, I hadn't done my research before I chose my club...I was managing Queens Park! Doh!

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On one of the older games 01/02 maybe, My younger brother set his star forward at Bayern Munich, Geovanni Elber a Minimum Release Clause of '£0'. Thinking this was basically saying that there was a no transfer for any price!! He was devastated!

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Didn't notice I put in a minimum fee clause for Suarez. He went to Arsenal for £40,000,001. Fummin.

 

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I've made pretty much every mistake listed here. Only once though!

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Yup - me too.

Just moved to Liverpool, doing well, scoring 3 goals a game so far. Just been told it's going to cost me 5Mil if the AMC scores another because of a clause in his contract from before I joined. Also got another player 5 games away form costing a further 3mil on appearances. Two of my key players!

Edited by Snorks

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10 minutes ago, Snorks said:

Just moved to Liverpool, doing well, scoring 3 goals a game so far. Just been told it's going to cost me 5Mil if the AMC scores another because of a clause in his contract from before I joined. Also got another player 5 games away form costing a further 3mil on appearances. Two of my key players!

It's the worst when you have to deal with something that the previous manager has done...especially when you've got no knowledge.

I make a note to check the transfer clauses page, just in case.

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This is why I never let other staff negotiate transfers. When I negotiate transfers I typically set those fee kickback clauses as non-negotiably excluded like someone above mentioned.

Another pro-tip that I didn't notice til a couple years ago (maybe it wasn't added til then, I'm not sure) is that there is actually a tab under "transfers" that shows all active clauses you have both inward and outward. This is especially useful when taking over a big club and you need to get up to speed with what has been negotiated already. When I joined Milan in my last save there were tons of random clauses from players the club had sold prior to my arrival that I was able to sell for quick cash. Conversely, you're also able to buy out a lot of your own clauses, which can be clever if you plan to sell a player for a fee that would cause the percentage lost to be larger than this upfront cost.

If you're next-level clever you can even see what players the club you've just joined has already sold with one of these fee kickback clauses, do the math, and possibly get a great deal on re-buying the player yourself! Never actually done it but almost did - it's basically just a free 20% discount on someone already familiar with the club culture and tactics. This is especially beneficial if you're behind on a homegrown quota and can pick up a cheap backup who had since moved on from your academy with this clause.

Edited by Weston

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20 minutes ago, Weston said:

This is why I never let other staff negotiate transfers. When I negotiate transfers I typically set those fee kickback clauses as non-negotiably excluded like someone above mentioned.

Another pro-tip that I didn't notice til a couple years ago (maybe it wasn't added til then, I'm not sure) is that there is actually a tab under "transfers" that shows all active clauses you have both inward and outward. This is especially useful when taking over a big club and you need to get up to speed with what has been negotiated already. When I joined Milan in my last save there were tons of random clauses from players the club had sold prior to my arrival that I was able to sell for quick cash. Conversely, you're also able to buy out a lot of your own clauses, which can be clever if you plan to sell a player for a fee that would cause the percentage lost to be larger than this upfront cost.

If you're next-level clever you can even see what players the club you've just joined has already sold with one of these fee kickback clauses, do the math, and possibly get a great deal on re-buying the player yourself! Never actually done it but almost did - it's basically just a free 20% discount on someone already familiar with the club culture and tactics. This is especially beneficial if you're behind on a homegrown quota and can pick up a cheap backup who had since moved on from your academy with this clause.

I had a Milan save on FM18 as well - didn't realise how much they owed on the squad already until i got in and dug around. Bonucci was almost being paid for until he was 50.

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My star striker had a release clause that I failed to notice of about 50% his actual value. Lost him to United on the cheap :(

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Once got hammered by a player taking 10% of future sale and a 40% of profit sale, That one hurt especially after a lot of negotiating to get the price i wanted, 

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Well I normally change all my players' squad status at the start of a save once I've done my transfers and decided on a tactic. Accidentally left Nick Viergever on "First Team", nobody could talk him down (Huntelaar is a useless Team Leader, refuses to talk to anyone) so he got upset for lack of playing time as he was effectively on Rotation playing time but First Team squad status, by mid-October he's leaving on a free in summer :(

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I signed Emre Can to a new contract at Liverpool in FM17, with a release clause of £30m. I opened up negotiations and when I seen him request £75k a week on first team status I just clicked "finalise deal" without paying attention. 
January came and Bayern bid £30m for him which of course was accepted beyond my control, he refused to sign a new contract with us and left. His value was something like £50m, he would have sold for £60m easily, the board and the fans were disgusted with me :D  

That's the worst one that stands out.

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Only once.

I clicked through a transfer without really reading. Was offloading the fat lad, Wayne Rooney, doing what Moyes and Van Gaal couldn't be bothered to do. 

Shifted him to Arsenal. He could stink up the place for me! 

Didn't realise they'd weaselled in a 'selling team wage contribution' clause. -_-

So, I paid for him to warm the bench at Arsenal. 

Never happened again. Fortunately, Mourinho shifted him irl on so I don't have to deal with him on FM saves anymore. :P

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On 15/08/2018 at 01:20, FrazT said:

I recall playing as MU about 10 years ago(?) not registering Van Nistelrooy for the CL because his name was at the bottom of the squad screen and I neede to scroll down one space to see him and didnt!

I usually hide unavailable players. Once I missed about 3 quality players who were injured. Absolute nightmare, they all kicked off.

I never let my HOYD or DOF buy players for these reasons.

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3 hours ago, ..Valhalla.. said:

I signed Emre Can to a new contract at Liverpool in FM17, with a release clause of £30m. I opened up negotiations and when I seen him request £75k a week on first team status I just clicked "finalise deal" without paying attention. 
January came and Bayern bid £30m for him which of course was accepted beyond my control, he refused to sign a new contract with us and left. His value was something like £50m, he would have sold for £60m easily, the board and the fans were disgusted with me :D  

That's the worst one that stands out.

I had a regen keeper who was class and I didn't want to go. So I offered him 5 year deal on the max wages and a huge yearly %. End of the five years came and he was on astronomical wages that I couldn't negotiate because I couldn't afford. Subsequently left on a free, but I eventually replaced him with a much better youth re-gen after about 5 years of having sub-par keepers for one season at a time.

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Not a specific lesson, but related all the same.

You really have to be careful with buying and selling these days - especially the more money (and more 'risk') you invest to sign a guy.

In FM17 I played a game where I essentially got stuck in the rat-race. Started low (England Van North) and instead of earning success and using that to cash in managerial 'jumps' to good clubs, I got stuck in the rat-race so to speak. Managed at PEC Zwolle [NED], Olexandriya [UKR] and FC Koln [GER] - all clubs regulars in mid-table for their leagues. 

And we got stuck in a loop where you'd sign a young player (for lets say 1M), and sell him within 18 months for 5 times that amount. But by the time you factor in his signing bonus and agent fees, alongside the percent profit to his former club potential sell-on fee's for the player himself AND the cut that the Board takes (it's rare to have 100% of any transfer fee added to your budget these days), you'd actually end up with very little in profit and very little left to spend on the 'next' youngster. 

I just remember spending millions on a dozen or more players over 7 seasons, just to turn over *only* hundreds of thousands in profits. The effort put in was not worth the paltry profit.

Moral of the story is like everyone else here - read the fine print and understand what you need to do to actually make profit on deals like this, lol.

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I had a Tottenham save a while back, sold off a few of the rarely used squad players to increase my budgets, wanted to make sure a few kids from the U18s were offered long term pro contracts for when they turned eligible, thought I'd offered them something like £200p/w each, turns out I must have offered them all £200k p/w by mistake. Never seen so many contract offers get accepted so fast in my life. Lesson learned: never play FM in the early hours of the morning when you're too tired to even put your glasses on.

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In my athletic save psg met inaki Williams's release clause. The Spanish window had shut and it was good money so I thought I'd have him until jan and then he would leave. Little did I know the French summer window was open longer so off he went and I was a key man down

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On 15/08/2018 at 20:17, westy8chimp said:

Add the clause yourself when you make the original offer... Then remove and exclude from all negotiations :brock: you pay a little extra for the fee, but dont lose mega millions a few years later if you sell the player

Started doing that - damn it's useful!

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7 minutes ago, Snorks said:

Started doing that - damn it's useful!

I like dealing in simple manners... So even when selling players i like to strip away all the clause options...  I. E they bid 30m...plus 40m in installments plus 10m in league apps and another 5m in goals scored.... I remove and exclude all the clauses and just ask for like 75 upfront. Theyd come back with a lower cash offer of circa 50 plus a sell on fee... Remove and exclude that and ask for 70 and theyd often agree terms at that point. 

Bird in the hand is worth two in the bushes

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53 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

I like dealing in simple manners... So even when selling players i like to strip away all the clause options...  I. E they bid 30m...plus 40m in installments plus 10m in league apps and another 5m in goals scored.... I remove and exclude all the clauses and just ask for like 75 upfront. Theyd come back with a lower cash offer of circa 50 plus a sell on fee... Remove and exclude that and ask for 70 and theyd often agree terms at that point. 

Bird in the hand is worth two in the bushes

Keep in mind you can often sell those clauses for cash, though. I almost always reject installments and never use them myself for the sake of simplicity, however I wonder if perhaps I'm hurting myself in doing so.

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Yeah what i do is on my first offer i offer 5percent and lock it, then they usually higher the price a little but it's better than losing out down the line, as if you offer with no clause on they respond and lock it on like 30+.

Similar thing happened with me, i bought ricardo pereira for 10.5 million, he had a couple good seasons then kept getting injured in the third season, Man united wanted him and i noticed they had federico chiesa for sale for 25 million. Come january United bid 30 million for pereira... i negotiate up to 40 and think "right.. i sell pereira for 40m, get chiesa (ended up agreeing 23.5m) and make a nice profit with a better winger who is not injury prone".

Comes to pereira finalised and im informed that he got 35 percent and his old club got 40. His youth team got 5 so i got like 8 million LOL.

If i remembered the clauses were there i would have just offered a straight swap, was a bad bit of business. 

 

 

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8 hours ago, MagicHat said:

Comes to pereira finalised and im informed that he got 35 percent and his old club got 40. His youth team got 5 so i got like 8 million LOL.

Also fun fact for you that I found out the other day, say you buy Player X from Team 1. Part of the deal includes 10% of future fee.

Anyway, 2 seasons later, Team 2 decide to buy Player X from you. Team 1 gets 10% of EVERYTHING. Including the bonuses. Also, if you add a 10% sell-on clause when Team 2 buys off you. When Team 2 sells, Team 1 gets 10% of your 10%. If you're playing as a selling club, the future fee clauses can keep you going.

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4 hours ago, Neotropolis said:

Also fun fact for you that I found out the other day, say you buy Player X from Team 1. Part of the deal includes 10% of future fee.

Anyway, 2 seasons later, Team 2 decide to buy Player X from you. Team 1 gets 10% of EVERYTHING. Including the bonuses. Also, if you add a 10% sell-on clause when Team 2 buys off you. When Team 2 sells, Team 1 gets 10% of your 10%. If you're playing as a selling club, the future fee clauses can keep you going.

That's really interesting. In future I'll look to add the 10% future fee clause to everybody that I sell.

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I try to add them all the time. Can often help if you're struggling to move a player on for the fee you want.

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I do it almost as standard when  I am selling a player - buying one I will get rid of it.

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These sorts of things sneak up on me quite a bit.  I'm not paying attention to details as I should.  I wish there was a feature where I could prompt a dialog box to warn me on negotiations when certain clauses pop up that I usually exclude.  Both on contracts and transfers.

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It is good to see just how many users have made a schoolboy error by not paying full attention to the small detail.  At least we all only make that mistake once!

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40 minutes ago, FrazT said:

At least we all only make that mistake once....

......a week :seagull:

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I've reached new moron levels!! almost save breaking, or at least makes me want to move job!

Finished 2nd first season with Lazio - looking forward to improving the squad and prepping my team for CL.. 

Budget is £4m!!! 

314976695_tbudgetfornextyear.thumb.PNG.70d18626d95bb989dac034f123edf376.PNG

So I sell half my squad to upgrade my Reg to Arthur (a player i'm sure we all have bought when playing in the top leagues) 

200442769_2018-10-01(23).thumb.png.30857d24f97cd3be00d4d9334af83055.png

Only to realise I have no idea what the rules are in Italy regarding non-EU players and Arthur cannot be registered! 

1086090136_2018-10-01(22).thumb.png.cc1d40ad86870c919e4f97ada5071534.png

To compound the error I also loaned out my first choice RB who was non-EU, for pennies, thinking it would free up a space...NOPE! 

And Paulista, a loan signing to cover the sale of Bastos, is also ineligible!

Can't terminate his loan and can't resell Arthur. 

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