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Spent 150 hours trying to learn this game but failed. I understand every ascept of the game besides tactics.

Not a single tactic work no matter what I do  (plug&play tactics , simple  4-4-2 without TI-s , literally nothing)

Players playing in preferred positions, playing against weaker teams still losing to 2-0, 3-1.

I am not gonna force myself through those armies of guides and manuals given the little time i have for gaming, I guess this game was made for a more hardcore audience instead of casual pleb like myself.

(not gonna try out the touch version, my problem isn't with the complexity,  but with the unclear tactics&match system that forces you to go on an online coaching course to have a chance at playing the game)

Hopefully future games in the series will change on this (maybe the game could gave you advice on what player roles work together etc.)

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The thing is to watch the games and adapt your tactic for each game. I pretty much watch the first 15 minutes of all the games on full, I adapt the tactic then I go ahead and play the game on key highlights. Of course, there's no way that I'm gonna win all the games, because there are teams that are simply better. But things don't feel random anymore. I win the matches that I should win, and I manage to turn a bad result into a good one by doing that. 

I took a break in FM games, played FM13 last. And the difference between that one and this one is mainly that, at tactics. They work (or fail) more based on individual players than the general tactic. In previous games that I've played, the tactic was more important than the players, they were playing "right", even if they didn't have the right attributes for it. That's not the case anymore. 

 

FM is a game of statistics. You basically look to balance your possession, chances of goal, the rate of success of those chances, with mistakes. And it's hard to do that without seeing how your tactic is working against the team you are facing. At least for me, there isn't enough data on team reports to give me the tactic that I need to use. So I watch the first part of the game. If I have better players, I get my team to pass better, make fewer mistakes, create more opportunities than the opponent, then, statistically, I should win that game. 

 

The problem most people face (me included), when we pick up this game is that we try a random tactic, let's say that we go for 442, wide, structured, counter, long passing, early crosses, we play a bunch of games that we don't watch, we're not doing well, so then we go ahead and play 433, narrow, defensive, short passes. Something totally opposed. But the thing is that you can change a tactic by simply changing a single instruction. And you change the odds by doing just that. For example, replacing long passes with short ones it's gonna give me better possession, but I won't create that many goal opportunities. And it depends where I was before. That single instruction that I give might totally change the whole outcome of the game. But the problem is when you make these changes blindly. You might change the outcome of the game against yourself, you can't know if you don't see that using that instruction might work. 

 

And trust me when I say this... I really suck at games. I'm utterly bad at them. So if I manage to get results at FM18, anyone can do it. The only thing is this, approach the game differently. Work your tactic around your players, just see what attributes does a player have and what role would suit him, then adapt the tactic to the game you are playing. 

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I keep seeing the same comments about watching the games and adapt your tactics for each game but no-one is ever giving a full overview on what to look out for and how to adjust. What are the key comments or visual give-aways that make you decide to change your tactic and in what way do you change it? A mere checklist might help people who are weak at the tactics side of the game to get them going in the right direction?

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7 minutes ago, DJ Sir Matthew said:

I keep seeing the same comments about watching the games and adapt your tactics for each game but no-one is ever giving a full overview on what to look out for and how to adjust. What are the key comments or visual give-aways that make you decide to change your tactic and in what way do you change it? A mere checklist might help people who are weak at the tactics side of the game to get them going in the right direction?

You won't get that in this general forum, if you want tips and tricks, you're better off asking in the Tactics forum here.

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I am useless at this game despite playing it since the fall of the Roman empire, mostly because the tactics are incredibly confusing to me. And just like you I'm not interested in reading armies of guides and manuals (in a laguage that's not my native, none the less) just to not get beaten home against the worst club in the league. However, for the last month or so I've tried to experience a bit with different settings and tactis, and it's acutally kind of satisfying when it works. I guess it takes time and patience.

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6 hours ago, kokszi said:

Spent 150 hours trying to learn this game but failed. I understand every ascept of the game besides tactics.

Not a single tactic work no matter what I do  (plug&play tactics , simple  4-4-2 without TI-s , literally nothing)

Players playing in preferred positions, playing against weaker teams still losing to 2-0, 3-1.

I am not gonna force myself through those armies of guides and manuals given the little time i have for gaming, I guess this game was made for a more hardcore audience instead of casual pleb like myself.

(not gonna try out the touch version, my problem isn't with the complexity,  but with the unclear tactics&match system that forces you to go on an online coaching course to have a chance at playing the game)

Hopefully future games in the series will change on this (maybe the game could gave you advice on what player roles work together etc.)

The ONLY things you need to do are;

- Suitable formation to match the players familiarity roles and combine the roles with each other.

- Tactical familiarity is VERY important so DON’T change it expecting instant results.

- Match sharpness.

- Team Cohesion.

- Morale.

- THE ONLY tactical approach change you need to make is when to attack, counter, balance or contain.

- Understand the team you’re playing is far superior right now. (I played v Adama Traore, 19 pace, 17 Dribbling, 17 flair, my left back and left winger was NEVER stopping him while he was on form).

People like you drive yourselves crazy overthinking the game.

Edited by Andrew_Goats_Gruff

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Yeah I also feel that way. No matter what tactics I create, my team does terrible. I was so mad I deleted the game, but then later I came back for one last try and I did again horribly so I deleted the game again. I think I will give the game one last try before deleting it for good.

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6 hours ago, kokszi said:

Spent 150 hours trying to learn this game but failed. I understand every ascept of the game besides tactics.

Not a single tactic work no matter what I do  (plug&play tactics , simple  4-4-2 without TI-s , literally nothing)

Players playing in preferred positions, playing against weaker teams still losing to 2-0, 3-1.

I am not gonna force myself through those armies of guides and manuals given the little time i have for gaming, I guess this game was made for a more hardcore audience instead of casual pleb like myself.

(not gonna try out the touch version, my problem isn't with the complexity,  but with the unclear tactics&match system that forces you to go on an online coaching course to have a chance at playing the game)

Hopefully future games in the series will change on this (maybe the game could gave you advice on what player roles work together etc.)

Really mate if you find time and read "Pairs and combinations" thread you will change your view about tactical piece of the game and it will became more understandable for you.Of course we speak for a game who demands many hours of your time...

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1 hour ago, DJ Sir Matthew said:

I keep seeing the same comments about watching the games and adapt your tactics for each game but no-one is ever giving a full overview on what to look out for and how to adjust. What are the key comments or visual give-aways that make you decide to change your tactic and in what way do you change it? A mere checklist might help people who are weak at the tactics side of the game to get them going in the right direction?

To be honest. a full overview would be a massive tome that would take years to write ad longer to read. Who was it said that all young players should be familiar wit the basic tactical formations? Then went on to describe all 29 of them!

Work out the best tactic for you players, start with your best players, the top 3 or 4 at your club, put them in positions and roles that they are comfortable in, this should get the best out of them. Work the rest of the team around them, keeping familiarity as high as possible.

Send them off to play. Watch them play. If you see something happening on the pitch, think about how to exploit it or prevent it. If your opponent are attacking predominantly down the left wing, look to solidify your right side - no pint having an attacking wing-back leaving space where their strongest player plays.

Likewise, if their left back is having a poor game, exploit the right flank.

If yo are up against a strong team, you need to be solid in defence, look to counter - perhaps a 4141? Narrow, or balanced when not in possession, quick and direct when you have the ball - Counter, Balanced, Structured - pace up front and on the wings?

If you are losing out in midfield work out why. Is it a possession thing, would an extra player (DM) help? If you are constantly xoming up against a brick wall when attacking, would an AMC create some space, or exploit a gap?

Basic football knowledge helps, experimenting with the roles, duties and instructions will find a solution.  

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12 hours ago, DJ Sir Matthew said:

I keep seeing the same comments about watching the games and adapt your tactics for each game but no-one is ever giving a full overview on what to look out for and how to adjust. What are the key comments or visual give-aways that make you decide to change your tactic and in what way do you change it? A mere checklist might help people who are weak at the tactics side of the game to get them going in the right direction?

Because is not an easy answer. There are some things that you'll see. 

- Many mistakes in passing, ball ending at opponents too often - adjusting to a short passing or reducing the pace will probably fix that;
- Good possession, good passing, opponents make mistakes, but your team moves too slow up ahead - a more offensive mentality, maybe more direct passing;
- Getting outrun and outnumbered in defense - deeper defense line and individual marking and closing down for the opponent strikers or wingers;
- Bad possession, opponents are moving the ball around without your team engaging them, more offensive mentality, get stuck in, tighter marking. 

There are small things that you adjust on the go. It's hard to create a checklist, because it depends on your team and on the specific match. If you're against a worse team, you can get away with more, but if you are against a better team, it's expected for them to have better possession, better passing, so you might think about going for more lucky balls forwards, or you might wanna see what areas of the field they aren't doing too well and exploit those. 

But your overall team is more important than the tactic. If you have a winger with low acceleration, pace, dribbling, don't expect to be able to play him as an inside forward and to make him do a lot of plays, it's simply not gonna happen. We all want our teams to play tiki-taka football, but not all teams can do it efficiently, so you should work a tactic that fits your team instead of trying to fit a team into a tactic. 

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Pretty much played the same tactic since 2012 and works in all up to 2017. 

GK

DL (FB)
DR (FB)
CD (BP)
CD (BP)

MC (BBM)

AMR (IF)
AMC (AP)
AML (W)

ST (AF)
ST (P)

Fluid
Attacking

Not perfect - but it works 60% of the time all the time.

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That should not work with those roles but I imagine you’ve added PIs & TIs to modify player behaviour.

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6 minutes ago, Barside said:

That should not work with those roles but I imagine you’ve added PIs & TIs to modify player behaviour.

I assume it's with a reasonable team... attacking will raise the D-line, fluid will make it even more compact (to allow for the big gap in CM) and if it's with a reputable team then the AI will be less inclined to attack the space behind... would be majority of game them (opponent) clearing the ball and the attack from smurfs team starting again as the high defence mop up the clearances. Probably gets hit on the counter a fair bit, but scores enough the other way to still win and be successful.

Not my choice of tactic or roles, but it's the kind of setup that looks worse on paper than on the pitch.

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Play narrow, inverted full backs on attack and every player to "shoot less often", "tackle harder" and "close down much more". That's always my starting point and have decent success by watching how it plays out.

I must add I usually play with Liverpool.

Edited by martplfc1

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2 hours ago, Barside said:

That should not work with those roles but I imagine you’ve added PIs & TIs to modify player behaviour.

I don't know what that is. 

2 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

I assume it's with a reasonable team... attacking will raise the D-line, fluid will make it even more compact (to allow for the big gap in CM) and if it's with a reputable team then the AI will be less inclined to attack the space behind... would be majority of game them (opponent) clearing the ball and the attack from smurfs team starting again as the high defence mop up the clearances. Probably gets hit on the counter a fair bit, but scores enough the other way to still win and be successful.

Not my choice of tactic or roles, but it's the kind of setup that looks worse on paper than on the pitch.

It works if you're managing a team in lower leagues, as you don't mind the mistakes as the players are so bad that any chances created by mistakes by your team aren't capitalised on by the lower league teams who haven't got the quality.

It works in the higher leagues, as the players are of sufficient standard to not allow so many mistakes or to correct them. 

The BBM works as it's an extra help in defense when needed. And the advanced playmaker works to help spread the play either to the wings or to the forwards. 

 

FB are great for the tactic as they can fill the hole behind the AML - so you'd probably want fast FB so they can track back. 

Other than that - that's the first time I've disected the tactic.

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I had the same feeling with FM 2018

After that I managed to create one tacic which wins most of the games.

Now I enjoy the game.

Maybe it is really about trying.

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I've just come of the back of an unbeaten Prem season and only lost once all season (Carabao cup final against Man Utd). The formation I'm running is 4-3-3 Wide as follows:

GK (G-D)

RB (FB-A), DCR (BPD-D), DCL (BPD-D), LB (FB-A)

MCR (AP-S), MC (BWM-D), MCL (AP-S)

AMR (W-S), ST (CF-A), AML (W-S)

Occasionally the AMR/AML swap to IF-S depending on who plays there.

This is my team instructions for majority of games:

image.thumb.png.ba015904752f96b437f4c64454a6a262.png

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For me just using someonelse tactic just because it had good results shouldn't be an option for everyone who plays this game. Read some useful tactic threads, see what kind of football you want to play for example I like playing with wingers or side midfielders and 1 attacker  and passing into space, experimented  with them and after many many many bad results (and good) after disappointments, shocking eliminations and some amazing moments you are going to find a tactic who will be your best  friend in every Fm. At least that's what I did when I start playing this beautiful game (2012)..

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The thing with "unbeaten" tactics is that they work only with excellent players. I'm sure that the tactic becomes "unwinnable" if you use it for a team like Crystal Palace with their FM18 startup. 

With good players, pretty much anything goes, because they will play accordingly to the tactic. And FM is a bit restrictive in this area, it's pretty hard to set up a "bad" tactic if you have good players. It can be done, but it's hard to make it by mistake. 


It's easy to "break" the game engine when you go at the extreme. The problems appear when your players are of average quality or even lower than average for that league. That's where the struggle comes, because you can't get an "unbeaten tactic" and win, because that tactic must be perfect for your individuals in that team in order for them to perform at their finest. 

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6 minutes ago, Gojira said:

With good players, pretty much anything goes, because they will play accordingly to the tactic. And FM is a bit restrictive in this area, it's pretty hard to set up a "bad" tactic if you have good players. It can be done, but it's hard to make it by mistake. 

Spend 5 mins reading the requests for help in the Tactics forum and you might change your mind ;).

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16 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Spend 5 mins reading the requests for help in the Tactics forum and you might change your mind ;).

Haha "im trying to play defensive but keep conceding... Im playing keegans 2-3-5"

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