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Official Football Manager 2019 Announcement

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13 hours ago, armbi said:

If it is to be a revolution I expect it exactly in 3D engine. Everything else is just cosmetics, as what revolution can we expect in transfers, scouting? For me FM 18 is just DLC form FM 13.

 

 

That doesnt make sense. If you are improving the graphical aspect of a game, its completely cosmetic.

The FM series, isnt about being all flash and looking perfect, its about managing a team, its strategy, not action. There is not point in creating a manager game to look like FIFA when the majority of the things of the game, dont need an engine.

If the 3D engine is the biggest issue you have with FM, then youre probably playing the wrong game.

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Watching Ronaldo missing a 1 yard tap-in in super sky-high-ultra-blu ray-5k definition.

No thanks

:D

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26 minutes ago, oblongata21 said:

f the 3D engine is the biggest issue you have with FM, then youre probably playing the wrong game

No I don't. FM has something that FIFA lacks - more complicated areas od Football matters such as transfers or tactic. But still, for me, as I mentioned before, visual mode is the heart od Football. How can I enjoy my hardcore worked tactics when I can't see it fully recreated on a pitch??? How can I enjoy having a player in my team with dribble on 20, defensive mid. with tackling on 18, while during a match I see only a little bit complicated "football hokey"? Do you understand what I mean?

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13 minutes ago, armbi said:

But still, for me, as I mentioned before, visual mode is the heart of Football. How can I enjoy my hardcore worked tactics when I can't see it fully recreated on a pitch???

Everybody enjoyed it for years before as text only commentary. In fact, many still do. FIFA has seriously, and adversely, affected the quality of football gaming conversation for years now. The last thing FM needs is to model itself on FIFA in any way shape or form.

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Ok, everyone has his own preferences as for FM. Like you said there are players who still enjoy 2D mode, when I watch real life football match a see physics, technique, bodies contact, dribble and some visual tactics recreated. This is pure essence of Football, not the bunch od tactic orders, players attributes that you cannot see on the pitch because it engine will not handle it with not even 20%.

I'm old FM player, been playing the game since CM01/02, I loved sliding balls on the pitch in the 2D mode, but now I can't even imagine enjoy seeing my players as balls which do tackling, dribble and so on. No, in 2018 it isn't enough.

 

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What a u talking about? Visual aspect is the last thing.

If you play 30-40 seasons as journeyman you will see a lot of little issues. Every next FM little better in this way, but still a lot of work here.

Specific coaches signes - good famous coach can't find a job, but you can find weak coach without any milestones in big club in a different country.
Stupid Directors of Sport. Sometimes they good, but in general this is fault. 

AI can't make sane transfer politic or politic of general development.
I can find a lot of good players for 50% sell which never interested for AI clubs. Goodskilled free agents, good players which dont asked to move from club-looser for any unclear reason.

Add for these points tactical problems like Guardiola and other coaches with problems of 4123 formation. Or ME which have a problems with ball possession.

So if I personally waiting for 'revolution' so this is revolution of AI development and tactic aspects closely for IRL tactic.

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2 часа назад, forameuss сказал:

It's even more jarring to realise that collision detection has been in the match engine since FM13.

Have you been paid for any mention of collision in this thread? :) 

 

@themadsheep2001 If I am correctly informed, Paradox Interactive helped for SI in our days?
Possible Paradox helped find new effective solutions for FM proccessing etc, cuz Paradox have big experience of work with games which loading proccessor heavy (like Cities Skylines with 100k units in real time).

At least, I would very much like this

Edited by Novem9

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Yeah of course lets have a tactics revolution and then thousands threads with complains entitled like this:"what a stupid match engine!" "I worked on my own tactic so long but ME is so weak that my players do what I didin't asked". 

Just have a look into technical issues thread.

 

Ok, I said what I wanted to, that's my point od viewer, there is no need to make additional comment. Everything was said.

Edited by armbi

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11 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Have you been paid for any mention of collision in this thread? :) 

 

@themadsheep2001 If I am correctly informed, Paradox Interactive helped for SI in our days?
Possible Paradox helped find new effective solutions for FM proccessing etc, cuz Paradox have big experience of work with games which loading proccessor heavy (like Cities Skylines with 100k units in real time).

At least, I would very much like this

Yeah, I get paid in the tears of people it bothers.  I do quite well.

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5 hours ago, rdbayly said:

The graphics debate is actually a white elephant. The main complaints on here are around AI, squad building, transfers and player interaction. To significantly improve this, thousands of extra calculations would be needed every time you click continue. You see that i3 processor you've got? Well sorry you need an i7 now. Cue the forums being flooded with "WHY IS THE GAME SO SLOOOOOOOOW???"

And even this can be fixed by allowing users with outdated machines to check a box that says something like "simplify AI processing (ideal for lower processing," just like people can check "2D match view" and could be able to pick "simple 3D match view" if FM ever updates the animations to provide some sort of additional "HD 3D match view."

Pandering to the bottom of the spectrum alienates the top, just as pushing forward aggressively would leave some behind. There's no reason why they can't provide more options to allow people to pick which settings are best for them, just like you can already literally pick the detail level for animations (though there's not as much of a difference as there maybe should be).

Someone once told me you can't pre-arrange loan deals before the window opens like you can pre-arrange transfers because FM decided adding that capability would take too much processing power (which, first of all, is silly because they use it on things like social media posts no one reads instead), but surely if that's true they see how it's a poor excuse? Why should the average player miss out on a massively important and realistic aspect of football because Joe from Manchester hasn't bought a new laptop in 10 years? Let him just opt-out of that feature...

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3 minutes ago, Weston said:

Someone once told me you can't pre-arrange loan deals before the window opens like you can pre-arrange transfers because FM decided adding that capability would take too much processing power (which, first of all, is silly because they use it on things like social media posts no one reads instead), but surely if that's true they see how it's a poor excuse?

Out of interest, how common in real-life are pre-arranged loan deals outside the transfer window?

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3 minutes ago, CFuller said:

Out of interest, how common in real-life are pre-arranged loan deals outside the transfer window?

Transfer deals, whether loans or outright transfers, are arranged before the window actually opens all the time. There is no reason why you should be able to do one and not the other. And when at a smaller club that has to rely heavily on loans due to poor finances this is nearly debilitating in the market as players move clubs before the window opens and you are even allowed to offer for them at all.

Besides, this is just one example off the top of my head. There are many things in this vein that could very easily have been tweaked years ago and yet there is no other apparent explanation as to why they are continuously ignored.

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14 minutes ago, Weston said:

And even this can be fixed by allowing users with outdated machines to check a box that says something like "simplify AI processing (ideal for lower processing," just like people can check "2D match view" and could be able to pick "simple 3D match view" if FM ever updates the animations to provide some sort of additional "HD 3D match view."

Pandering to the bottom of the spectrum alienates the top, just as pushing forward aggressively would leave some behind. There's no reason why they can't provide more options to allow people to pick which settings are best for them, just like you can already literally pick the detail level for animations (though there's not as much of a difference as there maybe should be).

Someone once told me you can't pre-arrange loan deals before the window opens like you can pre-arrange transfers because FM decided adding that capability would take too much processing power (which, first of all, is silly because they use it on things like social media posts no one reads instead), but surely if that's true they see how it's a poor excuse? Why should the average player miss out on a massively important and realistic aspect of football because Joe from Manchester hasn't bought a new laptop in 10 years? Let him just opt-out of that feature...

No it can't! You'd have you double up on your coding. What you'd see as a tick box at one end, is a massive and costly double build at the other.

It's not like SI havent thought this kind of stuff before. There's reasons why they strike a middle ground between pushing the AI and looking after the  user base as a whole.

Having different choices for Graphics is entirely different to having different scales in AI processing

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Been away from the fm scene for about 4 years guys but just got myself a new gaming laptop ready for fm19 as want to get back into the series.. would you suggest getting fm18 as I can pick it up cheap just to get back in the swing of things while fm19 is released  ? 

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1 minute ago, wally13 said:

Been away from the fm scene for about 4 years guys but just got myself a new gaming laptop ready for fm19 as want to get back into the series.. would you suggest getting fm18 as I can pick it up cheap just to get back in the swing of things while fm19 is released  ? 

Not seen you post for years! This close to release, I'd probably just wait. If FM19 ends up being quite different, FM18 wont be much help. See what Thursdays annoucement brings and go from there.

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7 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

No it can't! You'd have you double up on your coding. What you'd see as a tick box at one end, is a massive and costly double build at the other.

It's not like SI havent thought this kind of stuff before. There's reasons why they strike a middle ground between pushing the AI and looking after the  user base as a whole.

Having different choices for Graphics is entirely different to having different scales in AI processing

This precise question is put to Miles in the interview posted a few pages back on this thread. His response was basically this.

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9 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

No it can't! You'd have you double up on your coding. What you'd see as a tick box at one end, is a massive and costly double build at the other.

Indeed... I can imagine someone coding a hugely complex transfers/interaction system... AND at the same time having to cater for a dumbed down version of everything they create. That's double the work, double the testing time, double the cases where it can go wrong....

Though in some cases it's doable and already in the game, see the transfers that happen in the leagues that aren't active. But what the user here is suggesting is something along the lines of, an intermediate mode in a league that's active, to have the option of having the transfers and interaction dumbed down... good luck developing that mode, without that creating all sorts of massive ramifications for every single interaction generated in-game throughout the league season.

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4 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Not seen you post for years! This close to release, I'd probably just wait. If FM19 ends up being quite different, FM18 wont be much help. See what Thursdays annoucement brings and go from there.

Yeah mate just totally lost the gaming bug on all platforms but in last 2 weeks I've bought a ps4 pro and got a new gaming laptop I'm ready to jump back in 😃..yeah probably will wait till Thursday see what occurs 

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4 hours ago, forameuss said:

It's even more jarring to realise that collision detection has been in the match engine since FM13.

Not real collision detection, I’m afraid. There isn’t a full and realistic tackling mechanic and players cannot bounce off of other players realistically. 

Edit: more accurately it would probably be ‘collision response’. It’s way behind where it should be. 

Edited by DP

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30 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

No it can't! You'd have you double up on your coding. What you'd see as a tick box at one end, is a massive and costly double build at the other.

It's not like SI havent thought this kind of stuff before. There's reasons why they strike a middle ground between pushing the AI and looking after the  user base as a whole.

Having different choices for Graphics is entirely different to having different scales in AI processing

 

22 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

This precise question is put to Miles in the interview posted a few pages back on this thread. His response was basically this.

 

16 minutes ago, noikeee said:

Indeed... I can imagine someone coding a hugely complex transfers/interaction system... AND at the same time having to cater for a dumbed down version of everything they create. That's double the work, double the testing time, double the cases where it can go wrong....

Though in some cases it's doable and already in the game, see the transfers that happen in the leagues that aren't active. But what the user here is suggesting is something along the lines of, an intermediate mode in a league that's active, to have the option of having the transfers and interaction dumbed down... good luck developing that mode, without that creating all sorts of massive ramifications for every single interaction generated in-game throughout the league season.

Fair points, but if they’re purposefully stalling on creating any proper updates it makes you wonder for what other more beneficial things they’re using the resources they’d otherwise use for the innovations these people can’t handle.

On another hand they’ve already sort of done this in creating the simplified and streamlined FM Touch. They’re already maintaining two separate platforms instead of arguably pushing one to its full potential. Why not leave the stragglers to pick up FM Touch instead, or just focus the attention on making these different capabilities or lack thereof within FM itself?

I should be clear I’m not just trying to be accusatory and I know very little about coding, I’m genuinely asking. 

Edited by Weston

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I see that most people do not have a basic understanding of how coding actually works, or what goes on behind the scenes of any game. Check boxes and other switches to change on thing are often a nightmare to code. I write scientific programming, and any time you include a choice you pretty much double the code needed to perform a function. For the stuff I use myself, I usually make a horrible hack that is cosmetically ugly and would be considered a bug if any users actually used it. Also, "pandering to people with lower end machines" is not pandering if they are they majority. It is understanding who your user base is. Pandering would be including changes for those of us with top-end machines (myself included). It makes no financial sense.

I will also say the graphics engine is not the biggest problem in the game right now. The ME, which is far more important, is currently in an excellent state. It is easily the best it has ever been, and this matters more than the graphics. Take a look at FIFA as a comparison. The last time I played FIFA, it looked beautiful but the actual engine was horrible and the football was, well, not realistic. Give me ugly and realistic any day. That is not to say I do not think both graphics and match engine can, should and will be improved, I just do not see it as a priority right now.

There are areas of the game that need a lot more work. The AI for transfers is something that needs a lot of improvement. Teams buying players it either does not need or will not play. Teams being unable to build a squad long term, or manage their recruitment properly for the future also is a big issue. The further you get into the game, the worse this becomes. I assume this is not simple to optimize without making processing longer, but i do hope for something.

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5 minutes ago, Weston said:

On another hand they’ve already sort of done this in creating the simplified and streamlined FM Touch

It is infinitely easier to prune a longer code into a shorter one than it is to have two entirely parallel builds. FM Touch is the same game as FM with some functionality removed. At the simplest level, that means you either do not call certain functions, or you use default parameters for these functions. Either way, the code is not different, just used in two different ways.

What you want is to expand the code. In my simple example, you want to duplicate each function so there is a "simple" and a "complex" one. You are doubling the code, which essentially doubles the chances of there being a bug, whilst also making it twice as hard to find said bug. The AI and processing power of FM will always scale with the lower end of the current computer market, not the high end, because a significant proportion of the user base uses machines at the lower end of the the spectrum.

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I'll say this, because I dont want it to feel like its a pile on for Weston here. I totally understand the request and user side it makes sense. But trying to deliver that, would be an absolute nightmare, and I question how overall benefit, when considering the time and money investment, there would be, if even possible

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24 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said:

I see that most people do not have a basic understanding of how coding actually works, or what goes on behind the scenes of any game. Check boxes and other switches to change on thing are often a nightmare to code. I write scientific programming, and any time you include a choice you pretty much double the code needed to perform a function. For the stuff I use myself, I usually make a horrible hack that is cosmetically ugly and would be considered a bug if any users actually used it. Also, "pandering to people with lower end machines" is not pandering if they are they majority. It is understanding who your user base is. Pandering would be including changes for those of us with top-end machines (myself included). It makes no financial sense.

I will also say the graphics engine is not the biggest problem in the game right now. The ME, which is far more important, is currently in an excellent state. It is easily the best it has ever been, and this matters more than the graphics. Take a look at FIFA as a comparison. The last time I played FIFA, it looked beautiful but the actual engine was horrible and the football was, well, not realistic. Give me ugly and realistic any day. That is not to say I do not think both graphics and match engine can, should and will be improved, I just do not see it as a priority right now.

There are areas of the game that need a lot more work. The AI for transfers is something that needs a lot of improvement. Teams buying players it either does not need or will not play. Teams being unable to build a squad long term, or manage their recruitment properly for the future also is a big issue. The further you get into the game, the worse this becomes. I assume this is not simple to optimize without making processing longer, but i do hope for something.

 

20 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said:

It is infinitely easier to prune a longer code into a shorter one than it is to have two entirely parallel builds. FM Touch is the same game as FM with some functionality removed. At the simplest level, that means you either do not call certain functions, or you use default parameters for these functions. Either way, the code is not different, just used in two different ways.

What you want is to expand the code. In my simple example, you want to duplicate each function so there is a "simple" and a "complex" one. You are doubling the code, which essentially doubles the chances of there being a bug, whilst also making it twice as hard to find said bug. The AI and processing power of FM will always scale with the lower end of the current computer market, not the high end, because a significant proportion of the user base uses machines at the lower end of the the spectrum.

 

All good points, I appreciate you taking the time to explain this.

I would be interested to see some real stats on just what percentage of users have low-end or high-end systems, and though pandering to any one group is generally a bad idea there is of course a difference between growing and stagnating - if we always deferred to the larger group we would never have gotten rid of vinyl or CDs or headphone jacks. In any case, a lot of these conversations are just us anxiously spinning our wheels as we wait for the new game - no real point in discussing these things until we see where the next installation lands.

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1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I'll say this, because I dont want it to feel like its a pile on for Weston here. I totally understand the request and user side it makes sense. But trying to deliver that, would be an absolute nightmare, and I question how overall benefit, when considering the time and money investment, there would be, if even possible

Haha no pile on at all - I'm asking questions and raising points and getting thoughtful responses! That's what we're all (hopefully) here to do.

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4 minutes ago, Weston said:

All good points, I appreciate you taking the time to explain this.

I would be interested to see some real stats on just what percentage of users have low-end or high-end systems, and though pandering to any one group is generally a bad idea there is of course a difference between growing and stagnating - if we always deferred to the larger group we would never have gotten rid of vinyl or CDs or headphone jacks. In any case, a lot of these conversations are just us anxiously spinning our wheels as we wait for the new game - no real point in discussing these things until we see where the next installation lands.

I see where you're coming from, but the examples you give don't quite stack up.

With vinyl and CDs, there's often an either or.  Particularly nowadays, people can buy either format without too much issue.  Obviously back in the day vinyl was the thing being phased out, but - admittedly this was before my time - it was never a case of them completely killing one to bring in the other.  With headphone jacks, Apple seem to have this idea that they can do away with them, and there was a backlash.  But then, they're Apple.  People queue up to buy one on day 1 no matter what, and people will battle to ridiculous degrees to defend them, no matter what they do.  

In FM's case, they're not really comparable to either.  There will be a point where if SI change it too radically, people will just stop buying.  There may not be any other football management games out there, but it's not such a necessary item that the majority will continue to buy if they really screw up.  And we're not even talking about them just changing, we're talking about them potentially telling a certain group that they're now not able to play.

EDIT: And after your last post, just want to say, this is the sort of stuff that actually generates decent discussion.  Handled very well.

Edited by forameuss

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I'm old FM player, been playing the game since CM03/04,i want to play this 2d,but one player career same like new star soccer 3 style.

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I really want match engine to be massively improved. Not just the graphics, but animations. I want great dribblers to look like great dribblers, I want players with great first touch to look like they  have good first touch, I want more realistic collisions and ball shielding etc. If match engine is not massively improved in FM 19, I don`t think I will buy it.

Edited by zigaliro

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2 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

I see that most people do not have a basic understanding of how coding actually works, or what goes on behind the scenes of any game. Check boxes and other switches to change on thing are often a nightmare to code. I write scientific programming, and any time you include a choice you pretty much double the code needed to perform a function. For the stuff I use myself, I usually make a horrible hack that is cosmetically ugly and would be considered a bug if any users actually used it. Also, "pandering to people with lower end machines" is not pandering if they are they majority. It is understanding who your user base is. Pandering would be including changes for those of us with top-end machines (myself included). It makes no financial sense.

I will also say the graphics engine is not the biggest problem in the game right now. The ME, which is far more important, is currently in an excellent state. It is easily the best it has ever been, and this matters more than the graphics. Take a look at FIFA as a comparison. The last time I played FIFA, it looked beautiful but the actual engine was horrible and the football was, well, not realistic. Give me ugly and realistic any day. That is not to say I do not think both graphics and match engine can, should and will be improved, I just do not see it as a priority right now.

There are areas of the game that need a lot more work. The AI for transfers is something that needs a lot of improvement. Teams buying players it either does not need or will not play. Teams being unable to build a squad long term, or manage their recruitment properly for the future also is a big issue. The further you get into the game, the worse this becomes. I assume this is not simple to optimize without making processing longer, but i do hope for something.

This is basically what miles said in the Germany interview. Also a lot of stuff that gets reported as bugs is because there isn't an animation yet for what it's trying to perform. 

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1 hour ago, zigaliro said:

I really want match engine to be massively improved. Not just the graphics, but animations. I want great dribblers to look like great dribblers, I want players with great first touch to look like they  have good first touch, I want more realistic collisions and ball shielding etc. If match engine is not massively improved in FM 19, I don`t think I will buy it.

Thanks bro, that is exactly what I tried to say. It doesn't have to be FIFA 19, not even FIFA 14, but let us see some real connection between players attributes and what we see o a pitch.

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18 hours ago, FrazT said:

SI are never happy with the ME and to say that there has been barely any movement in it since 2009 is amazing.  The ME has many areas where it could be improved and I for one am looking forward to a better experience in FM 19

I'm not too sure. I'm basing my comment on what a SI employee said in another thread in the bugs forums. The comment was along the lines of "we're very happy with the ME this year" if I'm remembering correctly which doesn't leave much room for misinterpretation. 

Also, in terms of aesthetics, we've seen a distinct lack of progress over the 9 years since it was introduced. Yes, animations have inevitably improved. The look of the stadiums has improved, too. However, the natural progression that we'd expect to see from a 3D simulation isn't happening in FM. The ME is the heartbeat of the game and sometimes I feel I want to actually see with my own eyes why my player has just picked up a booking rather than have it explained to me. It's still basically a text-based ME. 

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11 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

As Forameuss says, this isn't accurate. It's been in the game for 5 years. It's more accurate to say it needs more refinement, which is easier said than done. But does need to be done. 

What#s in the game is technically a collision avoidance. Which means there is a part of the code that checks whether there is nobody in front of the player if he makes a run. If there is, the player is forced to run around that player. Prior to this, he would simply take the straight line and run through that player in front of his. Collision detection is something very different. FM doesn'T have such. It requires player (models) to be a "physical presence" that can actually collide and react, and it also explains in large parts why physical aspects of defending haven't yet been modeled much (shoulder to shoulder barge stuff, shielding the ball etc. etc.) Naturally, it is a lot more complex (even though lots of games have had it ever since decades in simple or more complex forms, in particular action ones) -- and it may also require a bit more processing power.

It may also, in parts, explain why the ME is in tendency always so vulnerable to tactics that just shove a load of players upfront -- and why the popular "exploits" have been primarily attacking ones for years now.

Edited by Svenc

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9 hours ago, ZoDiAC_ said:

Pro evo ten years ago looks better than the match engine now ;)

image.thumb.png.b6a553b27a3a2cbea03034f917c9bd84.png

Pro evolution doesn't even come close to simulating 90 minutes of football. It's not even a point of comparison between Fifa/pes and FM. Doing two entirely different things 

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56 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Pro evolution doesn't even come close to simulating 90 minutes of football. It's not even a point of comparison between Fifa/pes and FM. Doing two entirely different things 

I don’t think that really matters. You can still keep the underlying match engine and upgrade the graphics engine and animations to a higher level than that we have currently. Graphics and engine are different. 

Obviously graphics don’t matter to everyone but to some they do as it helps immersion. 

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10 hours ago, Svenc said:

What#s in the game is technically a collision avoidance. Which means there is a part of the code that checks whether there is nobody in front of the player if he makes a run. If there is, the player is forced to run around that player. Prior to this, he would simply take the straight line and run through that player in front of his. Collision detection is something very different. FM doesn'T have such. It requires player (models) to be a "physical presence" that can actually collide and react, and it also explains in large parts why physical aspects of defending haven't yet been modeled much (shoulder to shoulder barge stuff, shielding the ball etc. etc.) Naturally, it is a lot more complex (even though lots of games have had it ever since decades in simple or more complex forms, in particular action ones) -- and it may also require a bit more processing power.

It may also, in parts, explain why the ME is in tendency always so vulnerable to tactics that just shove a load of players upfront -- and why the popular "exploits" have been primarily attacking ones for years now.

This. There is no actual, advanced collision detection in the engine. The illusion is there but it’s not as it should be. 

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The main problem is that a lot of people confuse the graphic and animations with the match engine. They think that if you can't see a tackle or a player dribbling like messi or neymar, the drbbling attribute is useless. Everything happens under the hood, it just don't have animations to show you every movement in real life detail.

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19 hours ago, armbi said:

But still, for me, as I mentioned before, visual mode is the heart od Football.

In football yes, but in FM it's not. While I do agree the visuals of FM should keep improving, the visuals themselves are not the most important aspect of FM for most players as far as I can tell. While I always use the 3D at the start of every iteration I always go back to 2D after a while, or for that matter commentary only when I feel like it. The visual is actually nothing more than a helpful way of seeing how the tactic plays out. After all the ME behind it all runs the same no matter what kind of setting you play at. And the ME in FM18 is better than ever before. However, the 3D is still catching up the ME and don't always show what the ME want. The graphical engine that SI implemented in FM18 (I think?) gave SI something to build upon, they said so themselves in the FM18 pre-release videos and interviews. So I think the 3D will have a better look and feel in FM19 since they now have had a year to work on the new graphical engine. New animations will also help out quite a lot here, since quite a lot of the seemingly horrible choices players do are down to lacking animations.

The actual heart of the game it self is the AI, at least of saves of more than a few seasons. If you play for 10-15 season of the game you almost enter "Easy mode" since there will be issues with squad management, and teams are buying players they don't need while having glaring issues with other positions. So this is one of the, in my opinion, most flawed aspect currently. I do hope this is addressed in FM19.

10 hours ago, ZoDiAC_ said:

Pro evo ten years ago looks better than the match engine now ;)

Yeah, no, yeah, that's not even a match engine, just a graphical one. Try playing two AI teams against each other and see how well they follow tactical guidelines...

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18 minutes ago, Vali184 said:

The main problem is that a lot of people confuse the graphic and animations with the match engine. They think that if you can't see a tackle or a player dribbling like messi or neymar, the drbbling attribute is useless. Everything happens under the hood, it just don't have animations to show you every movement in real life detail.

So if it’s not shown to us how will we know? ‘Under the hood’ isn’t good enough. We need to be able to see it and judge for ourselves otherwise you might as well not have any animations at all. 

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That's why you have a bunch on analysis tools. You can see all tackles, dribbling, headers won etc. 

Be a manager!

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The match graphics look nicer in FIFA/PES, sure, but I don't think they're that important in FM. I would probably still be playing it if it was still 2D only. That's not to say I wouldn't like to see improvements (and there are improvements made every year), but there are other areas of the game that I would prioritise.

1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Pro evolution doesn't even come close to simulating 90 minutes of football. It's not even a point of comparison between Fifa/pes and FM. Doing two entirely different things

13 minutes ago, XaW said:

Yeah, no, yeah, that's not even a match engine, just a graphical one. Try playing two AI teams against each other and see how well they follow tactical guidelines...

Pretty much my thoughts. Neither FIFA nor PES simulate 90-minute football as we know it.

I remember many years ago that I tried to simulate a full AI vs AI match in FIFA 2000, when you could play a full 90-minute match. I stopped at half-time because the scoreline was absolutely ridiculous. Even a 20-minute AI vs AI match could see something like 13 goals scored.

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Still no new announcements? I know you said "late September", but it doesn't have to be 23:59 on September 30th you know.. :onmehead:

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1 minute ago, Footix said:

Still no new announcements? I know you said "late September", but it doesn't have to be 23:59 on September 30th you know.. :onmehead:

more details coming tomorrow after 12noon

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19 minutes ago, Vali184 said:

That's why you have a bunch on analysis tools. You can see all tackles, dribbling, headers won etc. 

Be a manager!

Sorry but an actual manager watches matches and sees how a player does. The analysis tools are secondary. 

The animations will have to continue to improve to give a good representation of what’s happening on the pitch. 

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51 minutes ago, DP said:

I don’t think that really matters. You can still keep the underlying match engine and upgrade the graphics engine and animations to a higher level than that we have currently. Graphics and engine are different. 

Obviously graphics don’t matter to everyone but to some they do as it helps immersion. 

It really does matter. They are different but they work together. It's much easier to create graphics when they movement and coding of what it needs to match is limited. 

No one said you can't try and improve them, but using a game that doesn't even have a match engine as a comparison is moot because their graphics don't have to do what FM does, which is far more complicated 

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3 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It really does matter. They are different but they work together. It's much easier to create graphics when they movement and coding of what it needs to match is limited. 

No one said you can't try and improve them, but using a game that doesn't even have a match engine as a comparison is moot because their graphics don't have to do what FM does, which is far more complicated 

If you just take player models, they are far more advanced than those in FM. Fm animations and models improve every year so it’s clearly trying to get to that level. The problem for me is the rate of change - it’s slow. Then again the game studio is a lot smaller.

 

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When 3D was introduced, I was one that defended that graphics should be a lot better then they are. Sure my dream is for FM 3D be on par to PES and FIFA... WAIT... Before you go get your pitchforks and what not, I don't mean the match engine, I'm talking the graphics only. I think if you combine match Engine with the 3D engine like PES and FIFA, the immersion will be far more greater.

Of course, I know that putting a 3D representing the match engine, isn't as simple of doing copy/paste. There is underlaying work underneath. I like the improvements in FM18, so I expect some improvement in that department.

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17 minutes ago, DP said:

If you just take player models, they are far more advanced than those in FM. Fm animations and models improve every year so it’s clearly trying to get to that level. The problem for me is the rate of change - it’s slow. Then again the game studio is a lot smaller.

 

The more they update the graphics engine, the more they will need to simulate in the game engine behind the scenes.. adding animations to show the player touch the ball with the inside of his left foot means simulating the change of pace on the ball, the direction, how the player moves the step afterwards, how it affects the balls movement, how the player marking the player in possession reacts (and every subsequent player on pitch, and a million other reactions to that one touch that is now simulated in the new shiny graphics engine..

 

Pro evo is mind numbingly simple compared to simulating a full on match in detail like in FM 

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I think before we talk about 3D improvements, we need to remember there were a fair few people struggling with glitchy graphics on good systems last year.  I'd be more inclined to reduce the number of new animations and spend time on the engine below it and making the current 3D representation as solid as it can be.

There are two threads still wide open on this in the bugs forum with no real indication that the Devs know how to fix them.

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14 hours ago, mightypvfc said:

The comment was along the lines of "we're very happy with the ME this year" if I'm remembering correctly which doesn't leave much room for misinterpretation.

I think they meant they were happy with the number of chances and goals, which they felt was close to real life. This is why no major changes were made to the ME in later updates.

There were a lot of glitches and animation issues this year, which bothered me more acutely than in previous releases. To name a few:

  • Bizarre goalkeeping behaviour leading to own goals from ignored back passes
  • Short passes ricocheting off teammates' heels and backsides leading to clear chances for the opposition
  • Shots from distance consistently leaving the field of play above the corner flag rather than above the width of the posts
  • No direct free kicks scored or conceded in 650 hours of play (I know others have not had this issue to the extent I did)
  • An over-reliance of hoofed / lofted balls, irrespective of tactical instructions
  • Contradictory text captions such as your player scoring an own goal but it flashes as a goal for you

 I'm looking for way more polish and refinement out of the box this year. Really looking forward to the release actually.

 

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