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Does anyone find the jumping reach of regens quite odd? One of my regens had a height of 183cm but a jumping reach of 7 while another had a height of 175 and jumping 12. Did that ever happened to you guys and is it possible to improve it drastically?

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To quote the Hints and Tips:

"Jumping Reach reflects how good a player is at reaching the ball in the air. It indicates the highest point an outfield player can reach with his head. It is not necessarily reflective of how tall a player is, but when considering his jumping ability, it makes sense to take into account the player's height. For example, a player of 200+cm will still possess a high reach even if he is a poor jumper, and a player who measures in at 170cm will struggle to compete at the same height due to the 30cm difference in height between the two."

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5 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said:

To quote the Hints and Tips:

"Jumping Reach reflects how good a player is at reaching the ball in the air. It indicates the highest point an outfield player can reach with his head. It is not necessarily reflective of how tall a player is, but when considering his jumping ability, it makes sense to take into account the player's height. For example, a player of 200+cm will still possess a high reach even if he is a poor jumper, and a player who measures in at 170cm will struggle to compete at the same height due to the 30cm difference in height between the two."

Yeah I understand that. The part I don't understand is when a tall player has a very low jumping reach. It's quite unrealistic and is it possible to considerably improve him in this area? He's already 23 btw

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17 minutes ago, Kimmy said:

Yeah I understand that. The part I don't understand is when a tall player has a very low jumping reach. It's quite unrealistic and is it possible to considerably improve him in this area? He's already 23 btw

Well,  if he's 183cm and can only jump 15cm then he's got a low jumping reach but if he's 175cm and can jump 60cm he's got a good jumping reach. I guess he can improve but, obviously, in general, the older he is the slower the improvement in physicals. Why not try for, say, six months?

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22 minutes ago, Kimmy said:

Yeah I understand that. The part I don't understand is when a tall player has a very low jumping reach. It's quite unrealistic and is it possible to considerably improve him in this area? He's already 23 btw

I don't think it ever really improves. all you can do is focus on heading.

Like you, the jumping reach has always baffled me. But then so do the newgens full stop. 

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Ok it seems like their stats are somewhat unrealistic. I remember having someone in FM17 who is 189cm tall but 6 jumping, same as messi!! That is simply ridiculous.

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This is an interesting topic. There is a table, that I will include at the bottom. However, the table is only a guide. Jumping has always been a bit of enigma in FM. It's simple but too many topics have veered down misinformed paths, so hopefully my example and then the table at the bottom will help to provide some context.

I've had a discussion about height with my head researcher before and how to provide a solution to a certain problem (the problem in question was Marko Arnautovic having a distinct preference for not challenging aerially, he would much rather wait for the drop and control it - even to the point of getting his feet up to head height/what would be considered dangerous play rather than jump and cushion it down etc)

- - -

Players heights are included, so if a player is 6'5" tall he has that height for aerial battles without even leaving the ground. 

If a players jumping reach is a bit below what you'd expect for their height they won't jump for aerial balls since jumping would offer them nothing.

This means in my case, I was setting 6'4" tall Arnautovic to have a jumping reach of 10, so that its substantially below what he can jump to in order to reflect the way he plays the game (I can't say if its changed since he joined West Ham, his game has seemed to become a bit more comprehensive since then though).

So there is a valid reason but its quite likely to be rare. So take a look at the type of player, a centreback who lacks appropriate jumping for his height is likely to be at a distinct disadvantage for example. If you've got examples then head over to the bugs forum and post a screenshot of the player and reference the table if needs be. Bear in mind though that pulling up a 6'5" player for 14 jumping really won't be so useful, its the standout examples, because where the exact margin is for the "worst of the worst" in a certain height bracket is not clear.

8a9dab72fe5f408e5b6d5f24354d182c.png

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I don't really agree with your about arnautovic. Even though he prefers not to compete aerially, he should still be decent in the air when he decides to. Shouldn't this be represented by ppm instead?

I understand there isn't an exact margin,but a 189cm player having the same jumping reach as messi definitely crossed the line of realism. That was in fm17 but I doubt the mechanism changed in 18

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20 minutes ago, Kimmy said:

I don't really agree with your about arnautovic. Even though he prefers not to compete aerially, he should still be decent in the air when he decides to. Shouldn't this be represented by ppm instead?

I understand there isn't an exact margin,but a 189cm player having the same jumping reach as messi definitely crossed the line of realism. That was in fm17 but I doubt the mechanism changed in 18

There isn't a PPM at this time, hence finding a working solution that was faithful to the reality within the constraints of a game. It was also an extremely rare case. It's better we try a bespoke solution like that in my mind, than just a generic thing and let it potentially be the case of people having Marko Arnautovic the 6'4" aerial monster. It was an imperfect solution, but what is more realistic. 

As I said as well, don't be looking for the examples 1 or 2 points out but those which are clearly out and make the post from there. As you say a 189cm tall player with 6 stands out dramatically, but it was FM17. Find examples on FM18 and get them logged. 

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I like it when @santy001 posts, we get to see how researchers go about their business.

In this case, rather than using a generic formula of height = jumping reach we see how researchers tailor attributes in perhaps unexpected ways in order to define how specific players actually play.  Can Arnautovic jump higher?  Possibly.  Does he? Not really and therefore we get a player in game who better represents his real life game.

:applause:

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56 minutes ago, Kimmy said:

Also has anyone seen someone's jumping increased significantly? 

It depends on what you mean by significantly.  I had a newgen come through once who was everything you'd want in a CB, except that his jumping reach was 10.  But by the time he was 21, he'd brought it up to 14.  He did become a world class player, though, so he clearly had a lot of potential to use.

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My understanding is that JR is based on a standing jump, while heading is the ability to direct the ball to it's intended target. So a physically big player may have a lower JR because he is, well, physically bigger - he may have a few inches on another player in stature, but just can't get as far of the ground.  Bigger, heavier things are harder to lift because of, well, gravity. Smaller players, with pace, can often do better against bigger players in the air if the y get a run-up. 

I had a small striker, good at heading but poor JR - set-pieces  I put him on the 'Attack Ball from Deep' role and he won masses of headers at 170cm tall.

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6 hours ago, Kimmy said:

Also has anyone seen someone's jumping increased significantly? 

This is how one of my central defenders has progressed over the last couple of seasons.  I'm not specifically training Jumping Reach, I just have him on Ball Playing Defender role training.

1.png

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6 hours ago, herne79 said:

This is how one of my central defenders has progressed over the last couple of seasons.  I'm not specifically training Jumping Reach, I just have him on Ball Playing Defender role training.

1.png

How old is he? That's quite an improvement.

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