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9 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Regista is a really difficult role to pull off.

The first thing I would do is to ensure the regista is the team's sole playmaker. Then I would make sure that my Team Mentality, Shape and TIs combine to give the Regista a "Positive" or 10 (minimum) to 12 mentality, if you're looking at the numbers.

The reason I say that it's difficult is that I have never found that it sits well in a midfield 3 as it gets forward by default I find the midfield gets on top of each other. Also it's the least defensively minded (as it gets forward) so you need to structure your team to a) give the regista space and b) make sure you're still defensively covered.

A final comment is that the Regista role sounds cool, but ultimately it's just a set of preset instructions; in many cases - particularly if you're playing possession football - a Deeplying or Roaming Playmaker is possibly closer to what you're looking for. I'm not saying don't use it, but just make sure it's for a tangible reason rather than the cool name :thup:

Thank you!! Another question I have in game is that do you think DM and centre back is underplayed in build-up in FM? When I am looking at real life football, I found that DM and centre back is usually the player who made most pass in the game. No matter a direct-attacking team like Liverpool or tiki-taka team as Man City. But in FM's ME, dm and cb's value in build up is usually bypassed. 

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8 horas atrás, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! disse:


My idea for Benfica would be the 4-3-3 which becomes a 2-3-5 in attack:


aZWB4ZU.png


The alternative 4-3-3 would be a deeper midfield and more advanced wingbacks and inside forwards, creating more of a 3-4-3 in attack.


YxFlBfk.png


Then a back 3 variant, which would require quite a bit of retraining yet but would be a useful option.


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I actually see Klopp's Liverpool quite differently. To me, their pressing, high line and attacking football would certainly be Overload. Given the discipline Klopp has instilled and the defenders play I'd say Highly Structured.


ZeNFuAb.png


This distributes individual mentalities as follows:
 


      15
17          17
   10    14
       8
17  8    8  17
       8


This would see Salah and Mane attacking space around Firminho, Robertson and Alexander-Arnold rampaging down the flanks and a reasonably reserved midfield.

I wouldn't be inclined to use this with Benfica - simply because Benfica have a lot of creative central players, where as this is more suitable for hard-working runners - but I do think that it would work extremely well. I'd actually love to see Arsenal play like this with Aubameyang, Lacazette, Pepe, Tierney and Bellerin.

so you will continue the save? i would love to see whats you are going to do this time. did you get the guys to first team or they are playing in sub18? did you sell every one in the first team? this open a lot of things now...

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On 26/12/2019 at 20:23, cristhianlinhatti said:

hello, ozil

can you do more details about PI's in your Klopp's system?

tks


Nothing fancy. Obviously goalkeeper distribution. Probably getting Firminho moving into channels and Salah and Mane moving forward and narrower, creating that front 3.


 

On 26/12/2019 at 20:25, jordan_ye said:

Thank you!! Another question I have in game is that do you think DM and centre back is underplayed in build-up in FM? When I am looking at real life football, I found that DM and centre back is usually the player who made most pass in the game. No matter a direct-attacking team like Liverpool or tiki-taka team as Man City. But in FM's ME, dm and cb's value in build up is usually bypassed. 


I've actually never noticed the DC in particular, but FM has always been off in the passing and possession calculations in comparison to real life.


 

23 hours ago, vrbrasa said:

so you will continue the save? i would love to see whats you are going to do this time. did you get the guys to first team or they are playing in sub18? did you sell every one in the first team? this open a lot of things now...


I'm thinking about it, but not sure. I could certainly implement a few new tricks with the advantage of hindsight. I'm at a bit of a loose end at the moment, and ever so slightly addicted to this Benfica team :lol:

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Was inspired by the last set of strikerless formations so decided to try something similar in my Qatar save (FM 20). I have easily the strongest team in the league and a group of (relatively) talented attackers/playmakers, still a pretty impressive performance:

497392346_Umm-SalalvAl-Sadd_Review.thumb.png.70ca52cfff8c52510a4160e526d52ecd.png

Also went with Positive and Lower tempo as my players (except Gabi) generally lack the mental attributes to thrive at high tempo and creative freedom. SS and MEZ are described as Very Attacking in this setting, W,RPM and IWB are Positive and the rest are Balanced. This also resulted in a Flexible fluidity.

 1993602727_Al-SaddSportsClub_Overview-2.thumb.png.f1dc7ddcbdfe1abc21234d864442e912.png

4 goals in this game for Shadow Striker Bruninho (might be thanks to his glorious Teamwork :D). 

1969247842_Bruninho_Profile.thumb.png.6dd2424c48de9c052cee01e41ee0b267.png

I'm a fan of strikerless formations and especially like the type of chances they create for SS, though I typically tend to struggle against teams playing cautious/defensive (which happens a lot) as they stay deep and don't concede much space to exploit. What would you suggest to do in these cases? With the right players would you eventually go Overload (Very Attacking in FM 20) and maybe a Be More expressive TI?

 

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18 hours ago, kandersson said:

I'm a fan of strikerless formations and especially like the type of chances they create for SS, though I typically tend to struggle against teams playing cautious/defensive (which happens a lot) as they stay deep and don't concede much space to exploit. What would you suggest to do in these cases? With the right players would you eventually go Overload (Very Attacking in FM 20) and maybe a Be More expressive TI?


It massively depends. When playing possession football, I would watch more of the game and look at where attacks break down. That's the reason I have the 4-3-3 with the deeper midfield - HB-DLP(S)-Mez(S) - as sometimes against a particularly strong midfield we might struggle to play through, so drop deeper and build up via a different route.

I also like to up the pressing. Make it impossible for the opposition to do anything at all, basically choke them out and create a real pressure cooker :thup:

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Experimenting to see how far this young group can go and seeing some highly encouraging football, even at Champions League level.


RPCTPzL.png


lL3Ts92.png


Absolutely controlled this game with most of our team rated around 2 stars for current ability and theirs 3-4 stars all round.

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1 hora atrás, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! disse:

Experimenting to see how far this young group can go and seeing some highly encouraging football, even at Champions League level.


RPCTPzL.png


lL3Ts92.png


Absolutely controlled this game with most of our team rated around 2 stars for current ability and theirs 3-4 stars all round.

do you have some specials pi or have more ti that you did not show? i find very hard to play like this with 2-3 stars and 18-19 years. and with the better and older too. what should i look for? the first i notice is that i have much less possession. arond 55%. champions, i have to change to a more cation tactic... 

i know that you put a lot in this, and i love it, but could you elaborate a little more about how you make all this super stars (i think you are a genius, really :D)?

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16 hours ago, vrbrasa said:

do you have some specials pi or have more ti that you did not show? i find very hard to play like this with 2-3 stars and 18-19 years. and with the better and older too. what should i look for? the first i notice is that i have much less possession. arond 55%. champions, i have to change to a more cation tactic... 

i know that you put a lot in this, and i love it, but could you elaborate a little more about how you make all this super stars (i think you are a genius, really :D)?


Thank you very much :lol: The only PIs I can think of off the top of my head are Goalkeeper distribution to centre backs and midfielders moving into channels.

I have noticed possession is a lot higher with Highly Structured; in the original save I was seeing around 65% possession. I think it's just down to players being more disciplined.

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What situations do you use the three different tactics (433 winges, 433 inside forwards and the back 3). Do u change it to counter a certain tactic or situation

Edited by Clean Sheet

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Hey @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! I’m looking at starting a career with Man U (generic I know) but will be trying to develop the younger players rather than buying too many players. To get a positive/attacking style of possession football with aggressive pressing (similar to your benfica) how would you recommend setting up man Uniteds attack and midfield? It seems like it would be difficult to fit players like Rashford, martial, Daniel James and mason Greenwood together when they’re all reasonably similar i.e. they only seem suitable on the wings as none of them scream “complete forward” to me 

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I also curious about the b team and sub18. With tactic are you playing in the b team? Who are at sub18? 

How are they progressing? 

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Thanks to this thread I've probably had the most fun save I've ever had on FM with St. Pats Athletic in Ireland on FM19. As a thank you, I'll share some of my save here!

e59c40cac81555cc5737fbc836c8efca.png

 

We've won the domestic title every single year of the save, 14 in a row, and I feel the squad has transition 3/4 times since then whilst maintaining a focus on youth. Europa League win in 2025 was followed by two CL final appearances in 2029 with a young squad, and last season with that squad beginning to hit it's prime.

 

2d32a3dcefa12cc914d3a35d714bd247.png

 

My current squad features 9 homegrown players, with two more qualifying this season to bring the total up to 11. Of the 11, 4 are products of our academy (McGlade, Hutchinson, Navarro and McGinty).

a2085e62fdf162603201abcbf2bf7f04.png

 

A flexible flat 4-5-1 based on intense pressing and bringing the best out of our "False 8s" Kranjcar (I like to think he's Niko's son) and academy product McGlade.

I like to look for similar attributes where possible to Ozil to find "complete players" across the team, even buying Carlos Lopes a natural CM to play at LB (like Ozil did with Braganca), with a preference towards Determination and good personalities (since mentoring from FM19 on is more difficult).

4dfa8173ac2081a01e83f1926c23aedc.png

 

Are there weaknesses? Sure, we lack teamwork, concentration, work rate is a notch below where I'd like it to be and off the ball movement isn't a strong suit of this side.

All of this contributes to why I have not went "Very Fluid" with this side and stick to the middle ground. Let the wingers drive forward, the false 8s, IWBs and striker do their own things, and leave the central MC and center backs to hold fort. Easy.

61eb7db982e7615c0027f0f73e8b0165.png

 

My under 19s play in a similar manner. They've swept all before them, picking up 14 domestic titles and 2 youth CL titles during this save. Sicari is on his way out, because as Ozil and SFraser says, he's not going to ever be good enough for my first team, so I'm letting him go to PSG for 500k (lol PSG wut?) as nobody wished to loan him.

e98a50baddefaf2d3039838c695cf5d3.png

 

Big hopes for this guy to one day become a False 8, he has all the attributes including "Gets Into Opposition Area". I'm looking to give him some domestic cup game time this season.

Here are some of my big hitters:

71432b362731c2e6a19815279d728d7d.png

 

Stefan is one of the funniest stories I've seen playing FM. I originally brought him as a 20 year old to play left back! What a waste that would have been. Pretty soon, I realized my mistake as he developed, and retrained him from a CM to a CB where he is now natural. He provides a solid core to the team, confident in bringing the ball out of defence and has all attributes you want in a defensive player. Turned down a 100m bid from Real Madrid, which is crazy money for the Irish league.

daf2a1f4faf206713373c2fa2681820f.png

 

Dean Martin, I know right? :D 

I scouted him early, but due to Scottish rules he couldn't join us until his 18th birthday. Since then, he's exploded. I gave him the run with ball PPMs to make use of his explosiveness, whilst training his technical skills (passing, first touch, technique) to make him a complete striker who I turn down 100s of bids for every window.

If people are interested I can write some more about my save as I progress, this thread is in my opinion the best ever on here so I'm happy to keep it going.

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17 hours ago, JDeeguain said:

Thanks to this thread I've probably had the most fun save I've ever had on FM with St. Pats Athletic in Ireland on FM19. As a thank you, I'll share some of my save here!

e59c40cac81555cc5737fbc836c8efca.png

 

We've won the domestic title every single year of the save, 14 in a row, and I feel the squad has transition 3/4 times since then whilst maintaining a focus on youth. Europa League win in 2025 was followed by two CL final appearances in 2029 with a young squad, and last season with that squad beginning to hit it's prime.

 

2d32a3dcefa12cc914d3a35d714bd247.png

 

My current squad features 9 homegrown players, with two more qualifying this season to bring the total up to 11. Of the 11, 4 are products of our academy (McGlade, Hutchinson, Navarro and McGinty).

a2085e62fdf162603201abcbf2bf7f04.png

 

A flexible flat 4-5-1 based on intense pressing and bringing the best out of our "False 8s" Kranjcar (I like to think he's Niko's son) and academy product McGlade.

I like to look for similar attributes where possible to Ozil to find "complete players" across the team, even buying Carlos Lopes a natural CM to play at LB (like Ozil did with Braganca), with a preference towards Determination and good personalities (since mentoring from FM19 on is more difficult).

4dfa8173ac2081a01e83f1926c23aedc.png

 

Are there weaknesses? Sure, we lack teamwork, concentration, work rate is a notch below where I'd like it to be and off the ball movement isn't a strong suit of this side.

All of this contributes to why I have not went "Very Fluid" with this side and stick to the middle ground. Let the wingers drive forward, the false 8s, IWBs and striker do their own things, and leave the central MC and center backs to hold fort. Easy.

61eb7db982e7615c0027f0f73e8b0165.png

 

My under 19s play in a similar manner. They've swept all before them, picking up 14 domestic titles and 2 youth CL titles during this save. Sicari is on his way out, because as Ozil and SFraser says, he's not going to ever be good enough for my first team, so I'm letting him go to PSG for 500k (lol PSG wut?) as nobody wished to loan him.

e98a50baddefaf2d3039838c695cf5d3.png

 

Big hopes for this guy to one day become a False 8, he has all the attributes including "Gets Into Opposition Area". I'm looking to give him some domestic cup game time this season.

Here are some of my big hitters:

71432b362731c2e6a19815279d728d7d.png

 

Stefan is one of the funniest stories I've seen playing FM. I originally brought him as a 20 year old to play left back! What a waste that would have been. Pretty soon, I realized my mistake as he developed, and retrained him from a CM to a CB where he is now natural. He provides a solid core to the team, confident in bringing the ball out of defence and has all attributes you want in a defensive player. Turned down a 100m bid from Real Madrid, which is crazy money for the Irish league.

daf2a1f4faf206713373c2fa2681820f.png

 

Dean Martin, I know right? :D 

I scouted him early, but due to Scottish rules he couldn't join us until his 18th birthday. Since then, he's exploded. I gave him the run with ball PPMs to make use of his explosiveness, whilst training his technical skills (passing, first touch, technique) to make him a complete striker who I turn down 100s of bids for every window.

If people are interested I can write some more about my save as I progress, this thread is in my opinion the best ever on here so I'm happy to keep it going.

Nice post, do you have any PIs and have you tried this on FM20? 

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1 hour ago, False 9 said:

Nice post, do you have any PIs and have you tried this on FM20? 

None apart from the False 8s. I tick get forward, roam from position, dribble more and pass it shorter.

I wouldn't call it a plug and play tactic though so it's use at your own risk, it's suited to the style of players I have. I started the save playing a simpler 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 variant until I had players the quality of Kranjcar and McGlade where I didn't want to leave one out, and I had a gifted both footed DLP to sit inbetween them and a complete striker to interact with them.

As for FM20, I've bought it but haven't really played it yet as this save has captivated me. Nothing in it is designed to beat a specific ME though so I'd imagine it should work across FMs.

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Posted (edited)

CL Semi Final 1st Leg

76b3dfe4c6b8f02ee43e758fc8e9cce3.png

 

Didn't give Liverpool a sniff in the CL 1/2 finals. 

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The build up to our second goal shows the strength of our style of play well. Our CF/S Martin wins a knock down from a goal kick, turns and begins to run into the behind of their 4-2-3-1 system as per his PPMs. The false 8s are running past their man into space, whilst 11 is providing another option out wide.

3ffe0c13fb332d3e066811b02e087421.png

Martin decides to keep running until the last moment, leaving a center back on the floor whilst the other scrambles to recover, leaving a gap that 30 and 7 can run in to.

90ee0cae69b36bc2cbc126d382599ac4.jpg

It's picked up by 7 my right winger, who finishes in the bottom corner. 

Goal number three follows a similar pattern, we are overloading them in the middle of the park, making it easy to play out from the back and dominate the game:

bffe4d99ba7221ad14c5ea120138a40f.jpg

Here is how this play develops from here (sped up for GIF purposes):

ezgif-com-video-to-gif.gif

Center back - IWB - False 8 - CF - RW - False 8 - Goal

Their midfielders are all over the place due to our numbers, Martin drags the center backs with him, right winger sees the false 8 exploit the space (using "Gets into opposition area" PPM), goal..

Let's break down how this goal happened.

At the back:

I prioritize players who can play the ball out from the back and can pick a pass under pressure. You've seen Drndarski already, but his partner is also quite comfortable with the ball

f924d5d146234a5d04258af7d77d3a47.png

His composure is a weakness, but I'd take that for his other attributes, namely his strength in the air to defend/attack set pieces. He is also nimble and makes good decisions.

IWB:

In a similar vein I want them to be able to recycle possession in the middle of the park in the absence of the False 8s, also to offer our DLP options:

13ec3c29a352c3bb02f0f5370018357e.png

236b75c9d5e8ddc9c7438be9a907136d.png

Like the center backs, I like to have a balance. Lopes is not a full back and is playing there solely for his ball playing ability. Matheisen is a natural full back with decent ball playing skills. They complement each other well whilst not hampering the team with their weaknesses.

False 8:

McGlade is able to take the ball in the gif above, dribble some before spraying the forward pass to Martin because he's a true technician, not afraid to express himself on the pitch:

652340f3f8b0115ec100870a5a00ecd2.png

 

So the build up is methodical and has been constructed over the past few seasons as McGlade and Kranjcar have matured into players who cannot be left out of the side. Squad building is by far the best part of this game, and this thread is the holy grail :D 

 

Edited by JDeeguain

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I am not sure at what point I should start getting really excited about this. Clearly more than just a flash in the pan. We have now passed, and passed, and passed our way through the Champions League group stage.


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In fact, we have the best possession stats in Europe right now.


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With the majority of the team teenagers, and a long way from their potential.


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16 year old Dantas is running the show with more than 120 passes per game at 90% accuracy.


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Dortmund, Club Brugge and Monaco are fairly substantial opposition and we have enjoyed absolute control and the games, even keeping opponents without a shot on target.


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BUPTteO.png


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Really interested to see where this could go. Squad management is becoming particularly difficult, with the established first team complaining about lack of game time.

Edited by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

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Interesting to see where this second playthrough could go. Do you have any plans to utilise any players who didn't make the cut the first time round?

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The European Adventure continues..

Enjoying a nice relaxing weekend with some spare time to re-immerse myself in this save.

We polished off the rest of the Champions League group games without much trouble.


fI5ccyL.png


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After hacking our way through the Christmas period and a patchy run of form in the league, we faced Man Utd in the 2nd Round Knockout as the youthful side attempted to reach the next level.

Concerned by the strength in Man Utd's Pogba - Matic midfield combo, I decided to withdraw my midfield slightly; aiming to have Dantas and Luis play ahead of them and Xadas probe any gaps they might leave when they press.


YxFlBfk.png


Luck played a huge part, but essentially we controlled possession - Dantas, again, superb - and nicked a late goal.
 

HWNQtXV.png


At home, we played the lowest possible tempo and aimed to simply keep the ball away from Man Utd as much as possible and that was enough to progress.


vYLVr9J.png


I should point out at this point that it really isn't all sunshine and rainbows; as you can see, we have become quite goal shy. We are involved in a real title race domestically, and have a largely unhappy squad with established players not getting enough game time with the youngsters coming through.


dTk1YY6.png


At this point, I am not attributing the lack of goals to tactics. It's more simply the level our the young players are at. We are focusing on controlling possession and choking games; we could easily be criticised for sterile possession tactics, but we're working with what we've got and it's working well. I am pretty sure goals will come as young players develop. Dantas remains absolutely key to everything. 17 years old now and is playing like the best passing midfielder in Europe at the moment.


dTk1YY6.png


He's averaging nearly 120 passes per game and crucial to everything; including 111 complete passes at Old Trafford.


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Not bad stats for a team of 2-3 star players :D

Next up, Chelsea. Unsure of how to approach Conte's 3-4-3 I decided to go back to our base 4-3-3 / 2-3-5 and see how the game plays out. We actually struggled with possession for the first time, with Kante the first player to neutralise Dantas. Instead it was really Jota and Embalo who managed to get in behind Chelsea's wingbacks and stretch their back 3, leaving gaps for João Felix and our free 8s so we played more directly and exploited that.


703DGtD.png


The return leg was a repeat, again struggling for possession but holding them to a draw and the adventure goes on!


T4IBpSe.png


Quite an emotionally exhausting couple of days. Should hopefully find the time to finish off the season next weekend.

Champions League Semi-Finalists:

  • Real Madrid
  • Atletico Madrid
  • Tottenham
  • Benfica

Hoping to avoid Real, but at this point I'll take what I get. Quite frankly I am still amazed by the season.

Edited by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

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Wow, stunning performance in the first leg hosting Atletico Madrid.


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Once again, just to show the disparity between the ability level of this team in comparison to the teams they are defeating with increasing ease..


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Versus:


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Second leg was difficult to maintain momentum, but largely shut Atleti down.


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Domestically, we finished off the league nicely.


SOyJ1AV.png


Time to dust off the suit!


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:hammer:

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38 minutes ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

FOOTBALL MANAGER, YOU ARE JOKING!!


BGqoMIm.png


Florentino Luis, Jota and Embalo have been called up by Portugal U20s making them unavailable for the Champions League final.

:seagull: :seagull: :seagull: :seagull: :seagull: :seagull: :seagull:

It's quite normal. I remembered when I managed a Chinese club they left me with 8 first-team players for the Asian Championship League Final, which I magically won with a bunch of youngsters. My solution was to work my way up to manage the Chinese national team to pick the players by myself. My club players were not happy for being excluded to the national team though :)

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Fairytale complete. Quite frankly, I am shocked.

After the devastating withdrawal of Florentino Luis, Jota and Umaro Embalo, we replaced with like-for-like. Trying to maintain as much consistency as possible, even though their absence clearly disrupted the team massively.


CKxCQOg.png


The final itself was a fairly dour affair. I've always found Real Madrid's Kroos, Modric, Kovacic midfield possibly the most difficult to play against and this was no different.

We struggled to get a foothold in possession and failed to record a single shot on target in the first half but our pressing and organisation stifled Real Madrid. The midfield diamond particularly effective.


i5clIJX.png


Our goal actually came directly from our pressing. João Felix pressured a sloppy pass back to Sergio Ramos.


Noi36JN.png


Navas' rushed clearance found Cervi in space.


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Cervi had time, space and João Felix still advanced, and played onside by Sergio Ramos so had a simple ball to create a one-on-one.


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João Felix cooly slotted home the goal which won the Class of 2018 it's first Champions League and what I genuinely believe may be my favourite Football Manager moment in more than a decade of playing.


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For the last time, looking at the quality we were up against.


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Development Update

Given the outrageous on-field performance, I have actually paid little attention to attribute development but having documented the first run of this save we can ask ourselves the interesting question - what difference has the rapid advancement to the first team made to the players development?

The answer - not as much as I might have expected.

Here is an overview of current ability and the core attributes we need to develop for our style of play from the same point in time of the original save:


pVk4MGm.png


At this point different players would have had varying experiences.

  • Geronimo Rulli, Gedson Fernandes and Alex Grimaldo would be similar, first team throughout.
  • Xadas, Jota and João Felix would have some solid first team exposure, but nowhere near to the same extent.
  • Tiago Dantas, Umaro Embalo and Florentino Luis would have played significantly less, mostly for the U19 or B team.

In comparison to the this time around - each having played first team football for an entire season in the league and Champions League.


CrPhIR6.png


So, there's an extra half-star here and there and a bigger jump for João Felix but, interestingly, not as much difference as I might have expected. Attributes are developing a little differently, most likely due to differences in training schedule second time around.

Personally, I'm surprised. Thoughts?

Seems to support the hypothesis about training facilities being the bigger factor with U18 players.

 

Edited by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

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22 minutos atrás, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! disse:

Fairytale complete. Quite frankly, I am shocked.

After the devastating withdrawal of Florentino Luis, Jota and Umaro Embalo, we replaced with like-for-like. Trying to maintain as much consistency as possible, even though their absence clearly disrupted the team massively.


CKxCQOg.png

What  are the rest of the TI's that don't show in the pic?

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10 horas atrás, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! disse:

Fairytale complete. Quite frankly, I am shocked.

After the devastating withdrawal of Florentino Luis, Jota and Umaro Embalo, we replaced with like-for-like. Trying to maintain as much consistency as possible, even though their absence clearly disrupted the team massively.


CKxCQOg.png


The final itself was a fairly dour affair. I've always found Real Madrid's Kroos, Modric, Kovacic midfield possibly the most difficult to play against and this was no different.

We struggled to get a foothold in possession and failed to record a single shot on target in the first half but our pressing and organisation stifled Real Madrid. The midfield diamond particularly effective.


i5clIJX.png


Our goal actually came directly from our pressing. João Felix pressured a sloppy pass back to Sergio Ramos.


Noi36JN.png


Navas' rushed clearance found Cervi in space.


DJIILKx.png


Cervi had time, space and João Felix still advanced, and played onside by Sergio Ramos so had a simple ball to create a one-on-one.


tX7jp2c.png


João Felix cooly slotted home the goal which won the Class of 2018 it's first Champions League and what I genuinely believe may be my favourite Football Manager moment in more than a decade of playing.


fdsGtf4.png

 


c01Sjlp.png


For the last time, looking at the quality we were up against.


m7z64CN.png


Development Update

Given the outrageous on-field performance, I have actually paid little attention to attribute development but having documented the first run of this save we can ask ourselves the interesting question - what difference has the rapid advancement to the first team made to the players development?

The answer - not as much as I might have expected.

Here is an overview of current ability and the core attributes we need to develop for our style of play from the same point in time of the original save:


pVk4MGm.png


At this point different players would have had varying experiences.

  • Geronimo Rulli, Gedson Fernandes and Alex Grimaldo would be similar, first team throughout.
  • Xadas, Jota and João Felix would have some solid first team exposure, but nowhere near to the same extent.
  • Tiago Dantas, Umaro Embalo and Florentino Luis would have played significantly less, mostly for the U19 or B team.

In comparison to the this time around - each having played first team football for an entire season in the league and Champions League.


CrPhIR6.png


So, there's an extra half-star here and there and a bigger jump for João Felix but, interestingly, not as much difference as I might have expected. Attributes are developing a little differently, most likely due to differences in training schedule second time around.

Personally, I'm surprised. Thoughts?

Seems to support the hypothesis about training facilities being the bigger factor with U18 players.

 

and what is your thoughts about  the highly structured system? 

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On 25/01/2020 at 13:07, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Development Update


So, there's an extra half-star here and there and a bigger jump for João Felix but, interestingly, not as much difference as I might have expected. Attributes are developing a little differently, most likely due to differences in training schedule second time around.

Personally, I'm surprised. Thoughts?

Seems to support the hypothesis about training facilities being the bigger factor with U18 players.

I would guess that you're probably right that the training for under 18s thing is the main factor - they've moved to make it less game-y in the more recent ones but as you're still playing a game with tutoring possibly its more of a hard and fast rule.

But I also noticed quite a few of those players have the little lrn icon indicating they're being tutored. I don't know how much you've been tracking the personality changes, but could it be that because they're only just now at the end of the season getting the really good personalities their development will then skyrocket afterwards? I'm thinking Embalo and Dantas, being the youngest, would probably be the ones where you could figure out in a 2nd season if this theory has any truth to it, the others already being 18 we wouldn't know. 

Edited by zlatanera

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Its a funny thing with Guardiola, Hah? The shape on the ball is almost always 2-3-5 or 3-2-5. But golden rule; 2 players wide, 2 in the half spaces and 1 central. Rest five supports. :D

Edited by Gegenklaus

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Been reading through this thread over the weekend and what a read it was. Best thread I've read on these forums.  Your writing style and the way you break things down is very good. 

Edited by craigcwwe

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This new direction for this thread is really tearing me in multiple directions through inspiration, if that phrase isn't considered an outright assault on the form of the English language. The thread has always made me want to either go back to FM18 to use this Benfica golden generation with the tutoring system, or do it in FM19 where Ruben Dias is a proper BPD (only drawback is the under 23s meaning there are a huge amount of players to handle). But now I keep considering rebooting my own Lyon career thread too, because the squad is so versatile you can go in different directions.

Really interesting tactic, the 3-2-2-3 btw. Do you think you could succeed using it in every game, perhaps once the squad have developed further?

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I literally have no players on my u23 squad, so the u19s or the B players will automatically be picked by the manager.
At this point if they're good enough, they're old enough, unless they're in the main team being mentored, otherwise they will be on loan if they can get game time or in the B squad ready to be dumped at some point.
I have no interest in any trophies the B team might win, but that seems to be boast the academy reputation of the club (there is still some development on the players, even if you deem them as not needed).

@Ö-zil to the Arsenal! love seeing Gedson back in midfield, he's a true superstar as a Mezzala. That is exactly where he belongs :D

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I apologise for the delay in addressing some of these questions, life's gotten in the way but there have been a couple of really great questions which I wanted to address properly.
 

On 25/01/2020 at 23:23, vrbrasa said:

and what is your thoughts about  the highly structured system? 


I am very impressed. For years now, I have had this style of play at the fluid end of the spectrum which has evolved from the Cruyff 3-4-3, Sacchi, Pep's Barcelona, Bielsa threads and, indeed, the first iteration of this thread. At times, it's come close to my own vision of footballing perfection, but the challenge has always been implementing it. Highly structured goes a long way toward bridging that gap.

Highly structured shape:

  • Gives our Central Defenders and Holding Midfielder a more cautious mentality, reducing the level of technical ability required.
  • Reduces creative freedom across the team, which reduces the level of Decision making and general football intelligence required.
  • Maintains the structure of a 4-3-3, shifting to a 2-3-5 in attack with a midfield playmaker and lots of passing options.

Gaps in mental attributes and the technical aptitude of defensive players are the often the two biggest areas for improvement in a developing team, so this is ideal.

The downside is that reduced creative freedom makes the football more mechanical with less room for individuality, but I think that is appropriate for the skill level of the current squad. This is reflected in a relative lack of goals. We are having lots of 1-0s.

As technical ability and football intelligence improve, with increased game time, we can play with more fluidity and give players more individual autonomy but only when the squad is ready.

It's an interesting comparison to my earlier approach, where I used a totally different style to gradually induct the new players. If I remember rightly, I started out counter attacking, then moved to a balanced 4-4-2 diamond before ultimately taking the plunge. I think this is a much smoother transition.

In the match engine, I notice similarities between this and the way Guardiola's approach with Bayern and Man City has evolved. I'd argue Barcelona played fluid possession football, with Xavi, Messi, Iniesta, Alves etc given a high degree of autonomy within the overall system (although would be interested to play with that calibre of player in a Highly Structured system). In contrast implementing his style of play at Bayern and Man City - both clubs having previously used very different styles - it's more reminiscent of the football I am seeing using Highly Structured, particularly in the first few seasons. Not sure if anyone else is still on FM2018 and following along with a similar style, if so, I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts. Sad this functionality has been removed from FM2019 onwards.

 

On 11/02/2020 at 00:49, zlatanera said:

Really interesting tactic, the 3-2-2-3 btw. Do you think you could succeed using it in every game, perhaps once the squad have developed further?


Actually, no. Or at least not in it's current guise.

The current 3-2-4-1 was - as with any tactic - born out of finding a solution within multiple constraints/factors.

  • I wanted to implement a back 3 to increase tactical flexibility within the squad and give Florentino Luis and Victor Bobsin game time at centreback.
  • The current ability of the squad, meant I still feel the need to play structured football as they are not yet ready for too much autonomy.
  • My own tactical preferences:
    1. I like to create compactness between defence and midfield by having one midfielder assigned the same individual mentality as my centre backs.
    2. I like my playmaker to have as many players as possible ahead of him.
    3. I like my playmaker to play with a positive mentality (neutral as a minimum).

My own tactical preferences mean that my playmaker should be my deepest midfielder, in which case also my holding midfielder; similar to Rijkaard at Ajax/Milan, Guardiola himself at Barcelona or the way we used Dantas in the first iteration of this save.

Highly Structured makes attacking players more attacking, and defensive players more defensive. In a highly structured system, in order to have a deep midfielder on the same mentality as my centre backs (point 1, for compactness) they need to have a Defend duty, in the DM strata.

In this system a DLP(D) has a mentality of 8; making him more cautious and likely to play backwards and sideways passes.

So I have a few options, none optimal:

  • Make the team more fluid to increase the mentality of defensive players; potentially beyond the capability of the current squad.
  • Play a DLP(D) with a cautious mentality (I have a strong dislike for this).
  • Play a DLP(S) either with no holding midfielder; very risky given 2 of my back 3 are learning the role.
  • Play a DLP(S) and use another midfielder as my holding midfielder.

As you can see I went for the last option. Sacrifices a man in that key central zone for security and stability at the back and in build up.

As the team develops and becomes more capable of playing fluid football, I could instead use the first option, which would give me an extra man ahead of my playmaker and my playmaker having a positive mentality.

It could remain a 3-2-4-1, switching the DLP to Defend and the DM to Support, or - perhaps - something like this:


CYuyCu2.png


:onmehead:

But, until then, I think the 3-2-4-1 will remain a common sight. Also potentially my B-Team set up to give young players some game time with a back 3.

EDIT: responding to your comment about every game - also, no. I am trying to make the squad as versatile as possible, ideally able to shift between systems, but given most opposition play 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 I think the 4-3-3 variants are likely to remain the most common systems.

Edited by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

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Hi guys, very interesting topic! Could I ask about TI and PI for Fm20? Thanks!

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Long time reader of your threads Ozil, and you've very much opened my eyes to different tactical understandings of FM. Still currently on 18, with my longest save to date (21 years) at Leverkusen.

I was watching a recent TIFO video yesterday, "Barrowcelona: The non league team that plays like Barcelona" and one quote resonated with me and reminded me of your numerous threads.

"If you want to play football, recruit footballers. It's that simple. Then coach them. Teach them. Improve them." 

Always look forward to reading and learning more. 

 

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