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Would England winning the WC be bigger than 1966?

ryan045

By ryan045,
in 2018 World Cup Forum

Would England winning the WC be bigger than 1966?  

43 members have voted

  1. 1. Would it be bigger than 66?


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ryan045

ryan045

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https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/985775/Gareth-Southgate-England-World-Cup-2018-win-bigger-than-1966

If England was to win the WC do we think it could be on the same scale as 66 or maybe bigger? Given social media and the world wide coverage I believe it could be the biggest ever. Bit worried about this jinxing it but that’s a risk I’m willing to take.

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Haguey

Haguey

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I think it would be, exactly for the reasons you state. The amount of coverage would be immense but I think it would almost be soothing for the country as a whole. It's brought people together like nothing else in the past few weeks, at a time when we're at the most divided through politics and Brexit etc.

I can see our run being a massive fillip for the future of English football too, even now. Imagine if (when) we win! :D

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Wigmore

Wigmore

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The world has changed so much in the last 52 years that to compare the reaction us (potentially) winning it now to winning it back then would be largely irrelevant, although no doubt a red top will produce some statistics along the lines of "BIGGEST WORLD CUP PARTY EVER".

It was a massive celebration then and it would be a massive celebration this time around, let's leave at that :) 

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themadsheep2001

themadsheep2001

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6 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

You don't talk about comparisons of which WC title would be more relevant before you've even played the semi final game.

He was obviously asked the question, and his answer is a lot longer and more nuanced than the sub heading

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forameuss

forameuss

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Football is bigger now than it was back then.  It will never be forgotten, obviously, but with the media as it is, wait until the first bad result in Euro qualifiers next year and suddenly it'll be the whole "everything is ****" meltdown routine.  We beat you in 67, and took the World Cup from you (what?  We did), but it wasn't really as big a deal as something like that happening now.  Losing a qualifier next year would be a molehill to the mountain that is winning the World Cup, but the press quite like molehills.

It shouldn't really be a case of which one is bigger though - I'd say the important thing is making sure it isn't isolated.  Leicester won the league, but now they're just talked about in rosy-cheeked, sepia-toned circles looking back at how wonderful it was, with City/Chelsea/Man Utd/Arsenal/Liverpool/Spurs (delete as applicable) spend their way to another predictable title.  A World Cup win would be a tremendous achievement, but as Germany - and France, and Italy, and Spain - will testify, it doesn't mean much if you crash out of the next World Cup in the group stage.  

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G-Man11

G-Man11

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Anyone else confused by the wording of the question?

Do you mean would it be a bigger achievement? But then you mention social media so do you mean would it be a bigger deal to fans/media in England? Or do you mean something else entirely?

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JD nawrat

JD nawrat

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It would be bigger today I think. Not a home tournament, football is reaching a pinnacle in terms of tactical evolution, there has to be a plateau eventually and I think we are much closer to that now than ever before obviously. 

Plus back in 66 England were probably rightfully one of the favourites. This would be a real surprise. 

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Crispypaul

Crispypaul

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21 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

What was the 1966 equivalent of Football's Coming Home, and was it as catchy?

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2014/06/england-world-cup-songs.html

Lonnie Donegan's (king of skiffle) "World Cup Willie"

Although I think 1970's "Back Home" is more famous, considering it was used in Fantasy Football.

Our 2014 song was called "Greatest Day".  Ahem.

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ryan045

ryan045

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37 minutes ago, G-Man11 said:

Anyone else confused by the wording of the question?

Do you mean would it be a bigger achievement? But then you mention social media so do you mean would it be a bigger deal to fans/media in England? Or do you mean something else entirely?

I guess we’re talking about a combination of the hype & scale of achievement compared to 66 (Considering we was such under-dogs coming into the tournament) Not everyone had the opportunity to watch it back then. Now literally every person can watch it & have there opinion. 

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PaulHartman71

PaulHartman71

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3 hours ago, forameuss said:

Football is bigger now than it was back then.  It will never be forgotten, obviously, but with the media as it is, wait until the first bad result in Euro qualifiers next year and suddenly it'll be the whole "everything is ****" meltdown routine.  We beat you in 67, and took the World Cup from you (what?  We did), but it wasn't really as big a deal as something like that happening now.  Losing a qualifier next year would be a molehill to the mountain that is winning the World Cup, but the press quite like molehills.

It shouldn't really be a case of which one is bigger though - I'd say the important thing is making sure it isn't isolated.  Leicester won the league, but now they're just talked about in rosy-cheeked, sepia-toned circles looking back at how wonderful it was, with City/Chelsea/Man Utd/Arsenal/Liverpool/Spurs (delete as applicable) spend their way to another predictable title.  A World Cup win would be a tremendous achievement, but as Germany - and France, and Italy, and Spain - will testify, it doesn't mean much if you crash out of the next World Cup in the group stage.  

 

Tbf I don't think we'd give the slightest **** :D Just reaching a Semi Final in my lifetime is mad, a final would be ****ing mental. Actually wining it would be indescribable. Imagine the scenes ffs :D 

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PMLF

PMLF

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9 hours ago, forameuss said:

A World Cup win would be a tremendous achievement, but as Germany - and France, and Italy, and Spain - will testify, it doesn't mean much if you crash out of the next World Cup in the group stage.  

Winning a World Cup and then getting eliminated in the group stage in the next WC is surely better than not winning either of those WC.

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JD nawrat

JD nawrat

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11 hours ago, forameuss said:

Football is bigger now than it was back then.  It will never be forgotten, obviously, but with the media as it is, wait until the first bad result in Euro qualifiers next year and suddenly it'll be the whole "everything is ****" meltdown routine.  We beat you in 67, and took the World Cup from you (what?  We did), but it wasn't really as big a deal as something like that happening now.  Losing a qualifier next year would be a molehill to the mountain that is winning the World Cup, but the press quite like molehills.

It shouldn't really be a case of which one is bigger though - I'd say the important thing is making sure it isn't isolated.  Leicester won the league, but now they're just talked about in rosy-cheeked, sepia-toned circles looking back at how wonderful it was, with City/Chelsea/Man Utd/Arsenal/Liverpool/Spurs (delete as applicable) spend their way to another predictable title.  A World Cup win would be a tremendous achievement, but as Germany - and France, and Italy, and Spain - will testify, it doesn't mean much if you crash out of the next World Cup in the group stage.  

How does it not mean much?! 

Germany have been the Kings of World Football for 4 years now. They fell spectacularly from their throne but they were the best nation in the world...do you think they forgot 2014 happened just because 2018 was ****? :D

We both know we'd take Scotland getting an appearance at 2022 even if it meant not playing at the WC 2026... same idea. Every team in the world would gladly win the WC, even if it meant group exit at the next tournament. Every single one. 

And while there is somewhat of a curse in the modern day, that's mostly because these teams are refusing to change up their following tournament team. Germany, Spain and Italy (and maybe France idk, don't remember the 98 WC) all kept largely the same squad for each tournament and the 4 years proved to be too much - which was quite unfortunate for Spain actually as rather unusually they dominated world football for 6 years, but that meant two Euro campaigns instead of 2 WCs. Had they blossomed into their peaks in 2010 instead of 2008, I think they'd have gone on to win 2014 too. But even the two year gap from 2012 to 2014 was too much for Spain. 

If Croatia win this WC and fail to bleed in youths they'll suffer in 2022.

England and France is probably less likely - England especially. With such a young squad you'd expect that keeping most of this squad together will be for the best. But there will have to be some changes or else they'll probably stagnate like the aforementioned nations. 

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Heartwork

Heartwork

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15 hours ago, forameuss said:

Football is bigger now than it was back then.  It will never be forgotten, obviously, but with the media as it is, wait until the first bad result in Euro qualifiers next year and suddenly it'll be the whole "everything is ****" meltdown routine.  We beat you in 67, and took the World Cup from you (what?  We did), but it wasn't really as big a deal as something like that happening now.  Losing a qualifier next year would be a molehill to the mountain that is winning the World Cup, but the press quite like molehills.

It shouldn't really be a case of which one is bigger though - I'd say the important thing is making sure it isn't isolated.  Leicester won the league, but now they're just talked about in rosy-cheeked, sepia-toned circles looking back at how wonderful it was, with City/Chelsea/Man Utd/Arsenal/Liverpool/Spurs (delete as applicable) spend their way to another predictable title.  A World Cup win would be a tremendous achievement, but as Germany - and France, and Italy, and Spain - will testify, it doesn't mean much if you crash out of the next World Cup in the group stage.  

We all know about the Scottish dudes that tried to steal the Jules Rimet Trophy in 66.

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Heartwork

Heartwork

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5 hours ago, JDownie said:

How does it not mean much?! 

Germany have been the Kings of World Football for 4 years now. They fell spectacularly from their throne but they were the best nation in the world...do you think they forgot 2014 happened just because 2018 was ****? :D

We both know we'd take Scotland getting an appearance at 2022 even if it meant not playing at the WC 2026... same idea. Every team in the world would gladly win the WC, even if it meant group exit at the next tournament. Every single one. 

And while there is somewhat of a curse in the modern day, that's mostly because these teams are refusing to change up their following tournament team. Germany, Spain and Italy (and maybe France idk, don't remember the 98 WC) all kept largely the same squad for each tournament and the 4 years proved to be too much - which was quite unfortunate for Spain actually as rather unusually they dominated world football for 6 years, but that meant two Euro campaigns instead of 2 WCs. Had they blossomed into their peaks in 2010 instead of 2008, I think they'd have gone on to win 2014 too. But even the two year gap from 2012 to 2014 was too much for Spain. 

If Croatia win this WC and fail to bleed in youths they'll suffer in 2022.

England and France is probably less likely - England especially. With such a young squad you'd expect that keeping most of this squad together will be for the best. But there will have to be some changes or else they'll probably stagnate like the aforementioned nations. 

That's a good point. Even though England has a pretty young squad right now I'd be genuinely surprised if the squad looked the same in 2022, because there are so many promising youngsters who'll be coming of age around then. Sancho and Foden could be breaking into the senior side as soon as the Nations League (Sancho probably more likely as he's already a regular at BVB). Freddie Woodman needs to get a break in the Premier League or Championship to show he's got what it takes, which he clearly has potential for. Young defenders like Latibeaudiere could start seeing chances soon too (whether at City, or at another club in Europe should contract talks not get resolved), while Angel Gomes should start getting first team chances either at Man Utd or on loan to a lower-Prem club this coming season. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

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forameuss

forameuss

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8 hours ago, JDownie said:

How does it not mean much?! 

Germany have been the Kings of World Football for 4 years now. They fell spectacularly from their throne but they were the best nation in the world...do you think they forgot 2014 happened just because 2018 was ****? :D

I'm not saying it makes anything they did in 2014 irrelevant, but are the German media going "oh well, it's alright, we won it in 2014"?  You're only as good as your last result when it comes to the media, particularly when said media is as crass and poorly principled as the one we have here.  

Most fans will probably be realistic if something like that happened.  They could win a World Cup, that would be massive obviously, and if that means a fallow period for the next 2-4 years, I'd imagine some would still take it.  But it would still be a media *********.  Because if there's one thing they absolutely love to do, is building up a nice, pretty pedestal, so they can smash someone down off of it.

9 hours ago, PMLF said:

Winning a World Cup and then getting eliminated in the group stage in the next WC is surely better than not winning either of those WC.

It is, but winning a World Cup and then not getting eliminated in the Group Stage of the next one is even better.  

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stockportguy86

stockportguy86

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I think this might BE the only chance we get to the world cup fina in my lifetime , seeing as the big boys like Portugal, Spain, Germany, Argentina etc have been knocked out this tournament. Southgate has proven us all wrong with his 3-5-2 with wingback formation and it's proven that is does work. I mean Sterling hasn't been the best player for us this tournament but helps those who are and it's working like a charm. I do hope we can pull one more suprise out of our sleeve and suprise our critics once again and face one of our foes, France in the final. 

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Federico

Federico

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It's always surprising a big "football nation" as England was so underachieving in football, speaking of NT. 1 WC won, 52 years ago and in "weird" circumstances, I'd dare to add.

But bigger than 1966? I don't know but for how deserved a final and possibly the victory of the World Cup would be, surely your walk from the 1st game till the end was not "romantic", football speaking:

a pretty neutral and flat group stage (finished as 2nd to take to easy side of the table... I hope karma won't make you pay for that), a tough but not charismatic 1st KO round won on penalties against Colombia, a definitely poor, in terms of history and quality of the opponent, QF against Sweden. An interesting Semi against Croatia, a beautiful team with a 3rd place on WC 98 as best result. I mean, nothing legendary.

It remembers me the walk of Italy on 2006: Australia, Ukraine.... but then we faced Germany on SF at least, before of meeting our ethernal french rivals in the Final.

But in the end I think it will be bigger just because you basically won nothing in 52 years, which is a pretty damned long time.

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Kenco

Kenco

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5 hours ago, scott MUFC said:

England have won the youth world cups, so if they do it right they could, in theory have enough for 3 world cups in a row, if done right

We haven't even got through the semi-final and you're talking about us winning the next 3 World Cups????

 

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