How would you get a lot possession with Barcelona and make Messi the star man?

[Beni150]

I've been trying a lot of stuff. 4-4-2, 4123... but I don't get a lot of possession/goals and Messi is playing really bad.

 

Can anyone share their succesful tactic with Barcelona? Or at least recommend what system to play?

[FMunderachiever]

id be interested in this as Barca seem consistently really bad on the game (why????)

Messi must be deep lying forward or F9 with PI's to make more risky passes and more dribbles id have thought

Probably go with a 4-4-2 shape, maybe a combo of a holding mid with Paulinho box to box?

[Abdiel_rivera10]

I've been getting good results with this tactic, good possession around 55%-65%. Haven't tested it with other teams though

 

Control - Fluid

Shorter Passing, Play Out of Defence, Work Ball Into Box, Push Higher Up, Close Down More, Lower Tempo, Prevent Short GK Distribution, and Dribble Less

                              SK - SU - Distribute to CBs, Roll it out

FB - AT                    BPD-DE                         CD-DE                        WB-AT

IW-SU - Shoot less often BBM-SU - Shoot less often DLP-DE  WP- SU

                  AP-AT - Get further forward, Roam, Move into channels

                                                              CF-SU

[Robson 07]

Hi If you play as Barcelona at least 90% of teams will be cautious against you.  There is no point bombing up the field with any kind of attacking or direct strategy.  Majority of teams will stand off and look to get men behind the ball.  From what I can tell this is an old bone of contention on this forum.  It means you end up playing as Barcelona on a more cautious strategy like counter mentality.  You gather the ball, you build the play, you probe an opening.

Similarly you need your attackers to move, fall back, interchange positions.  This means more players in the upper strata's on a support role and not simply just running to a static position against the last man.

I've tried to find an old post on this forum without success,  But it basically said in the old days, the AI version of Barcelona was incredibly weak and vulnerable.  The AI developers took labels literally such as Attack mentality & patient possession only to leave AI Barcelona weak, and crucified by counter attacks.  Ball moved to slow by defenders, team disconnected, forwards too high and too direct in the final third.  Thus avoid all those things.

[herne79]

15 minutes ago, Robson 07 said:

I've tried to find an old post on this forum without success

This one?  

 

[Robson 07]

Quote

The manual's description of the Counter Attack tactical option is just wrong. It has no effect whatsoever on defensive behavior. It simply increases the number of opposing players who can be behind the ball when your side decides to initiate the "counter attack" phase (mentality and tempo get temporarily set to the maximum setting, forward runs increase). This is why this option is selected for the Overload strategy as well.

The TC description, on the other hand, is merely intended to provide newcomers with a very simple recommendation for how to use the strategy without providing an exhaustive account of all the ways that individual strategy can be employed.

In FM, Barca as a "counter" side makes sense, because their strategy is to keep the ball and then

(a) slowly inch into the opposing third [against opponents playing defensively] or

(b) launch a quick attack when enough of the opposition gets drawn forward [against opponents who are trying to press them in their own half]. The "counter attacking", They look to strike quickly after drawing defenders out of position rather than slowly working the ball into the box while,

In terms of (a), the Counter strategy works for them since the lower mentality means they won't be rushing to get the ball forward when there are 9 defenders in front of their midfield. The part about expecting "to lose the battle for possession" is a bit confusing since lower mentality strategies actually emphasize ball retention more since players are less likely to attempt risky passes. Again, the suggestion for when this strategy is "best employed" is just there for new players and shouldn't be interpreted as the one and only way to use the strategy.

 

[Robson 07]

Just now, Robson 07 said:

The issue here is likely a mix of inaccurate media analysis of tactics and overly general terms used in the TC. The opposite ends of the mentality slider would be better labelled as "low risk" and "high risk" as, in the real world, you can have very "attacking" tactics (e.g. possession systems) where players are very conservative in pass selection and emphasize the quality of opportunities over the quantity.

One of the first things I learned when I started editing and testing AI tactics to improve realism in my games is that teams like Barcelona were ending up playing ineffective  football because they had an incoherent mix of high mentality and relatively low tempo as researchers were thinking in terms of common media descriptions of "attacking possession football" when, in the ME, high "attacking" mentality results in a decreasing focus on ball retention (at least among midfielders and attackers). This is what made AI Barcelona so weak and defensively frail in FM. They pressed very high and constantly gave the ball away with high risk passes after a too gradual build-up that allowed the opposing defence to reorganise, providing the player with an endless sequence of easy counterattacking opportunities against what should be the world's best team.

 

[Robson 07]

Both quotes above are very old quotes from @THOG who I believe is both ex researcher and moderator in these parts,  Still ring true?  Maybe.

[FMunderachiever]

Can you play a counter attack mentality, AND play with a high line/high press?

Barca under Pep were famous for their 6 second rule for pressing when losing the ball, and looking to win the ball back high up the pitch.

Can you recreate the high press and still have the patient approach when in possession rather than forcing the issue with low percentage passes?

[kingjericho]

2 hours ago, herne79 said:

This one?  

 

I just want to say this is my favourite ever thread in this forum. Good times <3

BTW the principles here still apply, however when I recreate the tactic I don't use all WB/IF on Attack duty, and the striker can also be a F9.

[Robson 07]

On ‎06‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 00:17, FMunderachiever said:

Can you play a counter attack mentality, AND play with a high line/high press?

Barca under Pep were famous for their 6 second rule for pressing when losing the ball, and looking to win the ball back high up the pitch.

Can you recreate the high press and still have the patient approach when in possession rather than forcing the issue with low percentage passes?

I would say yes.  You may want tinker a bit with line/pressing.  You don't want to be too passive, and as you say Barcelona look to regain the ball.  Equally I wouldn't necessarily turn the adjustments up to the max.  Look for a happy compromise.

[ericstpeter]

On 05/07/2018 at 14:54, Abdiel_rivera10 said:

I've been getting good results with this tactic, good possession around 55%-65%. Haven't tested it with other teams though

 

Control - Fluid

Shorter Passing, Play Out of Defence, Work Ball Into Box, Push Higher Up, Close Down More, Lower Tempo, Prevent Short GK Distribution, and Dribble Less

                              SK - SU - Distribute to CBs, Roll it out

FB - AT                    BPD-DE                         CD-DE                        WB-AT

IW-SU - Shoot less often BBM-SU - Shoot less often DLP-DE  WP- SU

                  AP-AT - Get further forward, Roam, Move into channels

                                                              CF-SU

Is your AP off set to the right of the CF S?

[Abdiel_rivera10]

1 hour ago, ericstpeter said:

Is your AP off set to the right of the CF S?

Yeah AMCR for Messi and STCL for Suarez

[Beni150]

On 05/07/2018 at 20:54, Abdiel_rivera10 said:

I've been getting good results with this tactic, good possession around 55%-65%. Haven't tested it with other teams though

 

Control - Fluid

Shorter Passing, Play Out of Defence, Work Ball Into Box, Push Higher Up, Close Down More, Lower Tempo, Prevent Short GK Distribution, and Dribble Less

                              SK - SU - Distribute to CBs, Roll it out

FB - AT                    BPD-DE                         CD-DE                        WB-AT

IW-SU - Shoot less often BBM-SU - Shoot less often DLP-DE  WP- SU

                  AP-AT - Get further forward, Roam, Move into channels

                                                              CF-SU

Does Messi get a lot of assists and goals?

[TESURAS]

Messi is now 31 years old therefore i think its the right time to not let him playing f9 or if because these position needs a lot acceleration and pace but his physical attributes going to drop quickly. That's why i think Sanpaoli in game against france play messi as a f9 is a total failure. Messi cannot do long distance dribble as before anymore.

Its better to train him as an AP to avoid physical contact and reduce his physical burden. He can be a very good ap when reaching 35,36 years old but he can never be a successful if or f9 when he is 35.

 

[Abdiel_rivera10]

4 hours ago, Beni150 said:

Does Messi get a lot of assists and goals?

I can’t provide any screenshots cause my save got corrupted. I can play some games with it and show you stats for him though. 

[Shamwoww]

On 06/07/2018 at 09:17, FMunderachiever said:

Can you play a counter attack mentality, AND play with a high line/high press?

Barca under Pep were famous for their 6 second rule for pressing when losing the ball, and looking to win the ball back high up the pitch.

Can you recreate the high press and still have the patient approach when in possession rather than forcing the issue with low percentage passes?

Of course!

Used this system with Liverpool trying to recreate Klopp's system and was unstoppable after three seasons. Stumbled back upon this system with Lewes FC in the Premier League in my third season after promotion and the only adjustment is I play a bit more direct (mixed passing) because my players aren't quite at the level of the big clubs to be able to play shorter passes and create openings as often. But if you play with shorter passing and tinker with 'pass in to space' depending on the opposition's shape then you will see higher possession % than I do which is currently 52% avg.

Can also push the CM (a) to an AM (s) and play the DLP (d) alongside the BWM.

 

[PandaBearGrylls]

Try this tactic:

  

 

Player instructions:

Sweeper Keeper: fewer risky passes, roll it out, distribute to deep lying playmaker

Central Defenders: tackle harder, mark tighter, fewer risky passes

Inverted wing backs: shoot less often, tackle harder, more risky passes

Deep lying playmaker:drible less, tackle harder

Mezzalas: shoot less often, dribble less, tackle harder

Inside forwarders: shoot less often, tackle harder, stay wider

False nine: shoot less often, dribble more, tackle harder

Have won everything with Benfica (with three consecutive CL finals and two wins), with average 65% ball possession and plenty of goals. Now with Monaco, i'm almost winning the league and have failed in CL but i'm in quarters of Europa League.

[Rémy Leroux]

If you want a good possession rate (around +60% per game) I would give a try below one, which is brilliant possession plus I broke the La Liga goals record.

 

https://forum.mrltactics.com/topic/976/pep-22231-dlp

 

Messi as AM. Lot of goals of him and lot of assists.

[craigd84]

On 08/07/2018 at 14:43, TESURAS said:

Messi is now 31 years old therefore i think its the right time to not let him playing f9 or if because these position needs a lot acceleration and pace but his physical attributes going to drop quickly. That's why i think Sanpaoli in game against france play messi as a f9 is a total failure. Messi cannot do long distance dribble as before anymore.

Its better to train him as an AP to avoid physical contact and reduce his physical burden. He can be a very good ap when reaching 35,36 years old but he can never be a successful if or f9 when he is 35.

 

Not entirely true your applying the games F9 required abilities to real lifes F9. One of the original F9's Francesco Totti played there when he started to slow down. 

Sampaoli was/is just a manager who loves to try and reinvent the game and has poor selections.

[goqs06]

In one of my older saves, when I had already completed 7 seasons, I operated Messi as a DLP/RPM. He works well as a deep playmaker in midfield a la Pirlo.

[Lopata19104]

Hello i found tactic like this on FM Passion site.Messi is playing great as inside forward on attack duty.

Possesion is about 60%.Some screenshoots:

[GreenTriangle]

There is a little problem. This :

A lot of defensive players with "Get forward ... " PPM.  And Messi with "Comes deep to get ball".

[blehq12]

Play him as a trequartista in the AM strata in 4-2-3-1 formation. He's gotten me 15 goals and 22 assists and has the best pass completion in the league right now on the FM 19 engine.

[sporadicsmiles]

I had a lot of success in FM18 using him as an APM in a 41221 formation. He will drift in from the right, meaning he is usually not marked (or drags a player with him to create space) and has the freedom of the midfield.