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Round of 16: Colombia v England (19:00 BST ITV1)

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2 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

I don't hate Kane... I like him. Just a shame for Spurs he leads the line, scores from range with both feet, scores in the box with head and both feet.

For England he hasn't done anything in open play... like we all laughed in the Euros at him taking corners... I find it just as laughable that he's now playing deep and wide and doing everything in his power not to get near goal and take a shot. It's embarrassing that we have made it through to the QF to play Sweden, whilst the best teams in the tournament have to battle it out in the other half.

for the neutrals last night was a dire as Sweden vs Switz or Denmark vs Croatia (or even Denmark vs France group game). No good football... loads of diving and histrionics.

But because we won people change the narrative that we are heroes and Kane was immense. If Tripps and Dier missed and we go home... the narrative in the thread would be more in line with me; Sterlings decision making was awful, Alli has done nothing all tournament, Kane was out of position ... as a team we had no attacking strategy.

Pretty silly to expect England to play great attacking football when the other sides with much better quality haven't done it. As for Kane he'd lead the line for England if the midfielders were doing their job.

Edited by Armistice

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5 minutes ago, Astafjevs said:

People are reading too much into it because they want to make out Messi does nothing. There's nothing massively unusual. The guy is a No.10, I don't know what people expect.

I want to know he's the best when I look at every piece of quantitative data going, none of this qualitative mumbo jumbo :brock:

Edited by elgreenio

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6 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

A loser speaks

You seem rattled...where is your usual eloquence? 

Disagree... Wet yourself with joy over last nights tripe if you like, but no need to get personal

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Mate, there's nothing personal, I just can't imagine any reason other than perverse enjoyment of losing that could see someone love 10-2 aggregate defeats and hate 6-1 wins because they involved the wrong type of goals :D

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1 minute ago, enigmatic said:

Mate, there's nothing personal, I just can't imagine any reason other than perverse enjoyment of losing that could see someone love 10-2 aggregate defeats and hate 6-1 wins because they involved the wrong type of goals :D

Purist. 

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11 minutes ago, Astafjevs said:

People are reading too much into it because they want to make out Messi does nothing. There's nothing massively unusual. The guy is a No.10, I don't know what people expect.

Fair enough if that's your opinion however I do find it very unusual that a goalkeeper who is confined to one area of the pitch runs almost as much as one of the world's greatest ever players who is both a creator and someone who runs with the ball and makes things happen.

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Was about the quote westy regarding Kane but then I saw his ***** about wanting Sweden to win and realised there was really no need.

Kane was excellent last night.

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26 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

Ref was a joke last night, let them get away with murder then books Lingard for a little trip :D 

Actually the ref was pretty much on the hand of England I felt. Most 50/50 cases went to the English. 

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So Westy calls himself a football fan and a 'purist' yet he's going to be supporting Sweden on Saturday. A team that defend with everyone behind the ball and play on the counter.  :D

He's on a wind up in here. 

Edited by craigcwwe

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can only imagine the rage building inside westy every time he sees that 2005 FA Cup banner at the emirates.

Back to the real football, can we get some proper ref's for the rest of it. Bjorn Kuipers will do

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33 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

Ref was a joke last night, let them get away with murder then books Lingard for a little trip :D 

Lingard's trip was a yellow card. The ref lost the game long before then. Didn't punish petulance early enough and it got away from him to the point where every single piece of contact became a foul. Was a pathetic performance in an otherwise pretty well refereed tournament so far.

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1 minute ago, Barry Cartman said:

https://streamable.com/r07en

How did we end up with the same amount of Yellows in all of this :D

From 50 secs on, watch all the Colombian players wrecking the penalty spot :D 

They're a bunch of shithouses. The whole lot of them. The players and coaching staff. They wasted three minutes over the first penalty, their player dragged Kane to the floor in the box with the referee two yards away, what are you arguing about you dumb ****s? :D

Then the diving. Falcao in particular did it twice. Second half the ball came up to him and he just backed into Stones and threw himself forward. Did the same thing in the first half too off a throw in and had the nerve to argue over it. Then there was the coach/hanger-on at HT that barged into Sterling and then had the nerve to say it was Sterling's fault. The Colombian players scuffing up the penalty spot whilst protesting with the ref. 

It would have been a complete injustice to football had they prevailed last night. 

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So glad to see a football purist who bemoans Mourinho's bus parking will be doing the right thing and getting behind Sweden (if there's room between them and the goal-line).

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3 minutes ago, elgreenio said:

can only imagine the rage building inside westy every time he sees that 2005 FA Cup banner at the emirates.

Back to the real football, can we get some proper ref's for the rest of it. Bjorn Kuipers will do

The ref was pretty poor last night. Far too soft with the Colombians. He should have booked every single one of them over the timewasting and protesting for the Kane penalty. 

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1 minute ago, craigcwwe said:

They're a bunch of shithouses. The whole lot of them. The players and coaching staff. They wasted three minutes over the first penalty, their player dragged Kane to the floor in the box with the referee two yards away, what are you arguing about you dumb ****s? :D

Then the diving. Falcao in particular did it twice. Second half the ball came up to him and he just backed into Stones and threw himself forward. Did the same thing in the first half too off a throw in and had the nerve to argue over it. Then there was the coach/hanger-on at HT that barged into Sterling and then had the nerve to say it was Sterling's fault. The Colombian players scuffing up the penalty spot whilst protesting with the ref. 

It would have been a complete injustice to football had they prevailed last night. 

No, that's purist football.  You obviously don't understand.

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Ref let far too much Colombian ****ery go with no punishment.

He was probably a little soft on Kane, every time he fell over he got a foul, but that doesn't make up for the fact that 6 players should have been yellow carded during the penalty argument, the headbutt should have been a red, and Falcao should have picked up a yellow for simulation.

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1 minute ago, ham_aka_stam said:

So glad to see a football purist who bemoans Mourinho's bus parking will be doing the right thing and getting behind Sweden (if there's room between them and the goal-line).

Don't know why people are in discussion with him. He celebrated Colombia's goal last night and he's supporting Sweden on Saturday. 

He wants the best football team to win, see great goals etc etc and talks up the other big boys like they're all peak 1970s Brazil and we're some no hopers who can barely pass to each other. 

He's trolling and attention seeking. 

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7 minutes ago, ham_aka_stam said:

So glad to see a football purist who bemoans Mourinho's bus parking will be doing the right thing and getting behind Sweden (if there's room between them and the goal-line).

Bet he wet himself with excitement when Bayern played Arsenal off the park in those back to back 5-1 mauling's. Some great goals scored in those two games. 

6 minutes ago, ham_aka_stam said:

No, that's purist football.  You obviously don't understand.

Guess not. :(

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So guys! It seems it can really be your turn!

Since France 2016 we've seen dogmas being  broken:

1) France unbeaten in hosted tournament = lost the final against Portugal

2) France unbeaten against Portugal in international competitions = lost the final

3) Italy unbeaten against Germany in international competitions = lost in QF (technically it resulted in a draw though)

4) Germany unbeaten against France in international competitions since 1958 = lost the SF

 

Now I don't remember last time you won on penalties in official competitions, but I think your losing streak was dramatically bad!

Whatever happens in the future, just don't let France to win!

(and Sweden will be a tough opponent, I warn you)

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2 hours ago, Baptista_8 said:

If you want someone who's comfortable on the ball in the final third, can glide past players, keep the ball in tight spaces and play killer balls, I might know someone... ;)

James Maddison? :)

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Is there a clip of the non-red card headbutt?  Only saw it once on a replay but thought at the time it looked like Henderson went down holding the top of his face when he’d been hit in the chin. 

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4 minutes ago, Bigwig said:

Is there a clip of the non-red card headbutt?  Only saw it once on a replay but thought at the time it looked like Henderson went down holding the top of his face when he’d been hit in the chin. 

Henderson makes a huge amount of it, but that's an absolutely certain red. Not sure it would have been anything at all without Henderson's antics though.

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Its a Red, Henderson makes a meal out of it, but as proven time and again, thats the only way you're going to get anything from a referee 

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Oh yeah I definitely thought it was a red.  Just seems odd that players are getting crucified for making huge overreactions (like Neymar) but English players get brushed over. 

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59 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Purist. 

Hahahaha sod off. Purist my arse. You've demonstrated in your descriptions of the performances of England and Colombia that you know absolutely eff all about football - expecting England to tiki taka their way through a really good Colombian side.

And to top it off, actively making a point of supporting the team playing against your own country is beyond tragic.

Edited by Robbie.Knox

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Just now, Barry Cartman said:

I'd hardly call someone getting hit in the chin and going down to bring attention to it anywhere near as bad as what Neymar has been doing 

https://www.clippituser.tv/c/lnwbyz

Wasn't it Heartwork who claimed he'd been hit similarly before? Sure Henderson may have overplayed it a bit (who can blame him, particularly against Colombia who were particularly bad), but a hit on the chin can cause pain in the whole skull I'm sure.

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5 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

Its a Red, Henderson makes a meal out of it, but as proven time and again, thats the only way you're going to get anything from a referee 

Interesting. So then we can also stop hating on South American/Spanish/Portuguese etc. players for doing this. 

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42 minutes ago, Vynal Seven said:

Loving the salty tears from Pékerman, making the win even more satisfying. 

Oh yeah it's brilliant. Icing on the cake. 

Guessing he was blind to the subhuman tactics his team and staff employed?

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1 minute ago, Cedrik said:

Interesting. So then we can also stop hating on South American/Spanish/Portuguese etc. players for doing this. 

They got a taste of their own medicine as far as I'm concerned. 

Not that I like that sort of stuff mind. But I'm sure you get what I mean. 

They didn't seem to like it either when we started drawing fouls and whatnot as they completely lost their heads in the second half. 

Edited by craigcwwe

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2 minutes ago, Bigwig said:

Oh yeah I definitely thought it was a red.  Just seems odd that players are getting crucified for making huge overreactions (like Neymar) but English players get brushed over. 

Does it seem odd?  Seems pretty standard to me.

A decent performance from England, probably deserved the win, but it went far, far closer than it probably should have.  Hang on for another couple of minutes and it looks a lot better than the slog it ended up being.  There's one thing that jumps out though, and that's the complete lack of shithousery from England.  It's far from just an English problem - Scotland have it too - but the commentary highlighted a big disconnect in the way football is played now, and the way it's apparently "supposed" to be played.  Colombia went too far yesterday, and had they decided to go at England after it became clear that their tactics of trying to noise everyone up wasn't working, they may well have been in the quarters instead of their opponents.  They can pretend their the authority on football, and that they're playing the right way, and that teams like Colombia are just awful, but they're essentially handing the advantage to any side that realises they need to do everything to win.  It's principled, fair enough, but principles don't get you through.  Be dicks, up to the point you can get away with.  If they eventually come up against Brazil or Uruguay, then prepare for a repeat of last night's histrionics.

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Hendersons overreaction was just the same as neymar... Just not as good. 

Maguire and lingard dives were possible the worst in the tournament to date

The bias in here and refusal to talk about english football on the same footing as other nations is mind boggling

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Cartman :D

Giddyness is fine, but when it turns into delusion like this, it's just too much. Not even sure there's contact there at all, let alone a '50/50' penalty situation. Was a dive. Just accept it and try not to moan when Neymar does it. Or alternatively, admonish Lingard if you're absolutely dead against other nations flopping

It's up there with the 'toe-to-toe' line from Tyldesley last night.

Edited by Astafjevs

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2 minutes ago, Astafjevs said:

Giddyness is fine, but when it turns into delusion like this, it's just too much. Not even sure there's contact there at all, let alone a '50/50' penalty situation. Was a dive

How many times do you want to contradict yourself? 

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2 minutes ago, Astafjevs said:

It's up there with the 'toe-to-toe' line from Tyldesley last night.

When he first said it I assumed he was joking. Was a ridiculous comment. Even Maguire got up and looked embarrassed when he said it wasn't a pen to the ref.

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1 hour ago, Hodgy said:

That is utter madness unless you'd also change the formation, Lingard is part of the midfield three with Alli and Henderson so doing that swap with the others you've suggested leaves us with Henderson as the pivot, RLC as a CM then Sterling, Rashford and Kane as a front 3 unless you're actually suggesting Rashford is a CM.

Care to explain why you'd do that change as I'm genuinely baffled trying to work it out?

Sterling would be the one that drops deeper with Rashford further forward. Lingard looked ****ed after 90 minutes and was baffling we took Sterling off ahead of him, who neither were setting the game alight but Sterling had more energy left. Not like Lingard offered any more bodies in the middle which you’re suggesting he does and kept the possession ticking over. Was annoyoumous in ET because he was gassed. 

I would also tinker with formation slightly and play Delph over Alli next game. Need someone in there that can just keep possession ticking over with Henderson further forward then the 3 CBs because that’s the only time we have possession when they pass it amongst themselves in our own third.

 

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4 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

How many times do you want to contradict yourself? 

Don't see the contradiction. I think it was a dive - made that opinion clear.

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The more I watch that Lingard incident the more it looks like a penalty to me, defender jumps into Lingard and takes his legs away.

Maguire was a laughably bad dive, should have been booked.

It's annoying when people try and conflate the above with the Neymar/Henderson incidents, you can't really compare them. If you get done in a completely off the ball situation you try and maximise the situation. Neymar ended up looking a bit silly with the floor gymnastics though because he went over the top.

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I guess that’s kinda my point. Off the top of my head you had Henderson’s overreaction, Lingard and Maguire going down in the box very easy with little / no constant and Young going down injured near the corner flag and needing treatment which was clearly a tactic to run the clock down. There was also someone (can’t remember who) who fouled someone then did the age old feigning injury to avoid a potential booking. 

I don’t particularly mind most of this, it just gets irksome when managers, players, press and pundits get all righteous about the dirty cheating foreigners while conveniently ignoring anything shady from the good honest Brits. 

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13 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Hendersons overreaction was just the same as neymar... Just not as good. 

Maguire and lingard dives were possible the worst in the tournament to date

The bias in here and refusal to talk about english football on the same footing as other nations is mind boggling

1. Unfortunately modern football ****ing sucks and if you don't overreact to things like that, justice will never be done. Neymar overreacting to occasions that could not be construed as violent conduct (Mexico stamp excluded) cannot be excused however.

2. Neymar's overturned VAR dive was worse than both of these, no question. I believe Maguire even gestured towards the ref that his wasn't a penalty - I haven't seen anyone else do that in this World Cup, but I have seen scores of players take a dive. There was contact for Lingards, but not enough for a foul.

3. I think everyone in this thread is more or less agreed that England aren't anything like as good as France/Brazil, but we're excited that our team have somehow been blessed with an outside chance of winning the thing. And so should you be.

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2 minutes ago, Astafjevs said:

Don't see the contradiction. I think it was a dive - made that opinion clear.

You said you wasn't sure if there was any contact, if there was contact, how can it be a dive?

https://www.clippituser.tv/c/qvkgve

There it is at full speed, Lingard clips his leg and loses balance. It isn't a dive, like I said is a 50/50 foul 

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1 hour ago, ham_aka_stam said:

and Falcao should have picked up a yellow for simulation.

A couple of England players were doing the same thing. 

To be honest, neither team covered themselves in glory last night with play acting.

 

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1 minute ago, daylight said:

A couple of England players were doing the same thing. 

To be honest, neither team covered themselves in glory last night with play acting.

 

But they weren't doing any of the rest of it, and no-one was quite as bad as Falcao.  Henderson was the worst, and he'd literally just been double-headbutted to the chest and chin...

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