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Dark side of Moon 343 3421 433 442 352 4231 Belgium tactics England Box Knap FM 18

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in tactic 352 is it possible to change the role of the 2 CM-A to AP-S / A ?

Would the tactics lose much effectiveness ?

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13 hours ago, KelevraOne said:

in tactic 352 is it possible to change the role of the 2 CM-A to AP-S / A ?

Would the tactics lose much effectiveness ?

Change it, test it, post results.

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On ‎10‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 22:57, knap said:

Run out of Space in OP.

Should be this table

568425891_Screenshot(309).thumb.png.6275c2ec8140555e02ef4f0cb9634f2b.png

 

For which tactic?

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Overview of Tactic List from testing                                  TOTAL                       SUB TOP    UNDERDOG

ARGUS FM 18.2.2       P102                                                    P385                          P206        P179  

PILGRIMAGE FM 18.3.3 LPOOL P104                                  P380                            P226       P154

WOF FM 18.3.3  P101  Flexible                                              P381                           P213          P168

WOF FM 18.3.3 LPOOL P100 ALL CUPS                                P365                          P196          P169

PILGRIMAGE Fluid  LPOOL P101                                           P367                          P201           P166

PILGRIMAGE FM 18.2 P105                                                   P357                          P218           P139

ARGUS VOL 4 FM18.3.3  Structured  P101 ALL CUPS       P363                          P220           P143

BLUE MATTER    FM 18.3.3 P105                                         P356                           P207           P149

GOODBYE FM 18.3 VOL 7 Very Fluid                                  P349                           P208          P141

GOODBYE 3421                                                                     P324                          P205         P119

MIDSOMER 442 P103 (FLAT TEST)                                      P349                          P199         P150

MIDSOMER 442 VOL MEZ                                                    P342                          P196         P146 

MIDSOMER 343 VOL MEZ                                                    P337                          P195        P142

WOF 2323    FM 18   P104                                                    P335                          P187         P148

BLUE MATTER FM 18.3 VOL 4 P102     352                       P335                           P206         P129

ASH 343 19,3.3 LPOOLP99 Highly Structured                 P333                           P205       P128

ARGUS 3430                                                                          P331                          P192         P139

VOLANTE BWM FM 18.3 P101                                           P326                            P191         P135

MM  442 VOLANTE P103                                                    P323                            P187        P136

WOF 3412                                                                            P325                             P198         P127

WOF 2233 P102HS         FM 18.2                                      P311                             P194         P117

BLUE MATTER VOL 4 P100 4123 FM 18.2.1                  P310                             P179         -P131

MMVOLANTEANCHOR            442                                   P302                            P165           P127

ARGUS 352 18.2,2 P101                                                   P306                            P169            P137

BLUE MATTER 433 18.3                                                    P295                             P158           P137

BLUE MATTER VOL 4 4213 VOLANTE 18.3                     P289                            P184            P105

PILGRIMAGE 3511 18.2.2 P102                                       P297                            P181            P116

PILGRIMAGE 451 MUP101 18.3.3                                    P293                           P169          P124

MIDSOMER WIDE DIAMOND   18.3                                P287                            P175            P112

RAMBLE ON ASYMMETRIC18,3 P100                             P287                           P169            P118     

RAW SIENNA 4231 18,2,2                                                 P272                           P147             P125   

As soon as you add IFs to the mix the tactic efficiency will drop, so you need a better team and work harder to get results.

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Hi knap, love your tactics. 

Do you have any recommendations for PPMs for the 3-4-3 and the 3-5-2?

I, like some others, are also interested on your take of a SUS version of the 3-4-3 or 3-5-2.

Kind regards

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Movement and passing PPMs. The marmite is the tries to beat offside.

SUS is vey simple dropping to a lower mentality ( contain for full SUS) and changing WBs to more defensive.

The TC adjusts the TIs which is why it is easy to try different mentalities. However going defensive can allow pressure so sometimes if you have upper hand it is not always a good idea using a SUS.It all depends on how much you want to game manage.

 

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These are untested atm so can't compare with BM 433. I just won PL with MC with PILGRIMAGE 4231 sub top P151so BM 433 should work although best results would be with PILGRIMAGE 343.

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17 hours ago, knap said:

These are untested atm so can't compare with BM 433. I just won PL with MC with PILGRIMAGE 4231 sub top P151so BM 433 should work although best results would be with PILGRIMAGE 343.

Which position did you play KDB in the 4-2-3-1 ?

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Hi @knap, not sure if this is the right place to ask. But. I will go on a long term save with one of your tactics, either one of the 3421´s or the 4123 with IF. Wich one would you recommend? 

 

Thanks in advance

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It depends on the type of player positions you prefer. The 3421 or England Box are for if you prefer AMCs but in general 3 at back is the better defensive set up.

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25 minutes ago, knap said:

It depends on the type of player positions you prefer. The 3421 or England Box are for if you prefer AMCs but in general 3 at back is the better defensive set up.

I do prefer winger/IF instead of 2 AMC´s. The same goes with the 4123., two winger/IFs instead of 3 at the top. Looking for a tactic that i can use  from lower leagues, and bulding a squad/academy around and use on my way up :)

Thanks!

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Hi knap (or any other forum member that has reasonable suggestions)

I have a quick inquiry as to which one of your many brilliant tactics to use.

I have recently taken over the Barcelona job on my current save as it is a step up and a tough challenge as they require instant success yet i have no budget to work with and an ageing squad.

I want to use a 4-4-2 formation as this is my all time favourite and i just don't like the current modern formations.

Which one of your 4-4-2 formations would you recommend for an attacking, possession based game which the board is adamant i play? I would like to use and attacking home formation and a slightly less attacking away and for big games if possible.

Thanks for all the great work you do!

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In past FMs winning tactics tended to have high possession. However this year it is mostly the opposite.

442 Route 66 should work with Barca

MIDSOMER P103 442 would be an attacking 442 but may lack possession. However, this can also be used on counter which would increase possession. I would therefore try this tactic and change mentality to increase possession if needed. This would also give you an away tactic.

I played this game the other day and even with the AI Barca does not have possession.

607238826_Screenshot(316).thumb.png.be17bde84038180d6d72d53aa58d819f.png

 

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39 minutes ago, knap said:

In past FMs winning tactics tended to have high possession. However this year it is mostly the opposite.

442 Route 66 should work with Barca

MIDSOMER P103 442 would be an attacking 442 but may lack possession. However, this can also be used on counter which would increase possession. I would therefore try this tactic and change mentality to increase possession if needed. This would also give you an away tactic.

I played this game the other day and even with the AI Barca does not have possession.

607238826_Screenshot(316).thumb.png.be17bde84038180d6d72d53aa58d819f.png

 

Thanks for your input, it's much appreciated.

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I decided to change to the updated MU squad and test the 442.

Basically same result

1334714183_Screenshot(321).thumb.png.881d4e94966edd76d11f103589cc58f3.png

 

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!FM18.3.4DARKSIDEKOFMOON343napMUP106.fmf "

Screenshot (285).png

Is there a player filter for this tactic? 
you would be better off if you prefer the player in which positions to get efficiency from the players. 
Great tactic, by the way. Fenerbahçe and first-time champion and I have reached the finals in UEFA European League.
I use translate because I do not have English. @knap

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I use attribute masking and Scout Reports rather than Player Filters.

Different types of players bring their own uniqueness to a position and can change a game rather than just relying on a specific type of player. With injuries and smaller squads in LL you need to be able make do rather than have total efficiency, even if this could be defined

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Hey Knap...I find your "ALL CUPS" tactics really stable and reliable away from home...could their be a dark side of the moon all cups tactic created at all?

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pietroaps has been working on a 4231 tactic with wingers based on MIDSOMER. I have just tweaked this and there is now a p100 ALL CUPS version and a P101version. May be interesting to put to the test which is better.

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11 minutes ago, knap said:

pietroaps has been working on a 4231 tactic with wingers based on MIDSOMER. I have just tweaked this and there is now a p100 ALL CUPS version and a P101version. May be interesting to put to the test which is better.

Currently using Pligrimage 108pts all cups away. Would gladly put one of them to a test.

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31 minutes ago, knap said:

pietroaps has been working on a 4231 tactic with wingers based on MIDSOMER. I have just tweaked this and there is now a p100 ALL CUPS version and a P101version. May be interesting to put to the test which is better.

Would love to see this, been trying to tweak your 4231 to use wingers instead of IF’s

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On 19/07/2018 at 20:04, knap said:

pietroaps has been working on a 4231 tactic with wingers based on MIDSOMER. I have just tweaked this and there is now a p100 ALL CUPS version and a P101version. May be interesting to put to the test which is better.

Any news on these tactics?

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Not sure if Pietroaps has finished testing. The versions I did are I've finished testing - either an ALL CUPS version or P101.

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Testing has stopped so these tactics have not been tested.

ARGUS for under dog and PILGRIMAGE for sub would be difficult to beat

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Hi all.

 

I have discussed privately my modest changes on knap's tactics with the author himself over the last few weeks.

I consider the tactics his, and have been very wary of publishing anything. I commend him for the quality and dedication of his work.

 

My concept in FM has been to try to push forward the 4231 model, with the concept that you can adapt pretty much every player/position into the tactic, including lateral attacking midfielders. However, you all know 1 striker formations have been very challenging this year. To me, the central attacking midfielder is not intended to be a "number 10" (in my opinion, as of 2018 that role does not translate too well onto the pitch against cultured defensive midfielders), or to serve an offensive organizer, but rather use the position to retain defensive midfielders in defensive movement and create overlaps with the other ofensive positions, to create but also to finish. The 4231 shape is therefore easily ("fluidly") volatile, and I have applied the name CHIMERA to these tactics, as they mimic, at times, shapes of 442/4222, 433/451, and even 23131.

You can check the previous iterations on mrL tactics forum searching for "chimera". They were based mostly on knap's WOF principles - paused, intelligent, offensive play probing through the middle with overlaps. The football played is quite beautiful to watch and the results of the tactics were interesting as a whole, as they qualified among the best 4231s (~55), even though with competitive limitations.

 

Midsomer 442 is somewhat an anomaly. Outside of 3 striker formations, and along with its "cousin" VOLMEZ, it is clearly the best tactic to come out this year. It is very offensive on the perimeter, and the two F9 (support), along with a stable centre midfield, create a functional network along the pitch and a sea of potential finishers. Furthermore, with closer lines and the slightly higher defensive line, its so compact that the defensive disadvantage is lost. If you like to play 2 striker, stop here :).

Midsomer Chimera is simply:

1. pushing ahead the wingmen to wingers: I was reluctant at first as you lose defensive positioning and they cannot close inside, but they offer the verticality and the crossing; in my opinion, one of the problems with IFs AND the CAM position on the same tactic is that they become redundant and dysfunctional, particularly in narrow formations (that's why 451 formations work better in that aspect); with the wingers on narrow, they are not that outside (inside game) but flow into vertical outside channels, and frequently come inside to finish (more if the PPM/preferred foot says so).

2. 1 F9 and 1 CAM on attack: this setup is worse defensively, as they fall on the same space, but offensively they work very well.

 

The result is a very offensively effective formation, that can be brutally overwhelming if you are the same level / better squad. By definition, it can be exposed easily if you are not.

You can see on my Milan save (average PA 167, two formations on full rotation game in, game out) - that's when i suggested this might be an ok tactic.

 

In response to knap (I'm very happy he decided to try it), I actually started some tests, but I would like others to try it, if possible, as I lack time. I always feel knap could improve these.

You can find attached the first test I did, with MU on holiday (I know it's a bogus method, but it is what it is) and the first games of my Arsenal save (not significant, as I'm sure I will encounter problems as I play away to the big 6).

 

Please feel free to comment.

Midsomer Chimera.fmf

MilanMidChim.PNG

ArsenalTeam.PNG

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(Included CA/PA so you know it's really poor flawed Arsenal - I like them, though...)

 

Arsenal Squad.PNG

Arsenal.PNG

Edited by pietroaps
added info

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Knap, if you feel this deserves its own thread I can migrate this info there (I was just replying).

Thank you all for your time.

MU.PNG

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I would start a new thread with your information. Actually your original tactic did better than in your test. I will post my results in your thread once opened

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Has anyone played 4231? (which with 2 DLP's) How it works in subtop? Who scores goles?

Edited by Novem9

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1 hour ago, Novem9 said:

Has anyone played 4231? (which with 2 DLP's) How it works in subtop? Who scores goles?

It's been good so far for me at Lyon. Most goals come from the striker, the inside forward and the AMC. Most assists from winger and inside forward. 

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1 час назад, Fribbe сказал:

It's been good so far for me at Lyon. Most goals come from the striker, the inside forward and the AMC. Most assists from winger and inside forward. 

Do you check left foot for inside and right foot for winger or this no matter there?

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Using the 4-2-3-1 with Lyon. Finished 2nd in the league but won the EL, Coupe de France and Coupe de la Ligue. 

912457243_SeasonSummary.thumb.png.26308f74facb2f1371c01afea2a2d6cc.png

1725285927_Schedule1.thumb.png.b9cf4bfc43ae9a6271964da9d9331f80.png 1246877567_Schedule2.thumb.png.0fb1d389156edc6f64ead8ce6dee654e.png

Doing a french player only save, so here's my transfer history.

 Transfers.thumb.png.da635fed60a6717fc2700f2d45a0df42.png

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DARK SIDE OF MOON 352 TEST 1 
Knocked out of CL first knockout stage
Won PL, Europe SC, FA cup and Carabao cup.

1710983740_TEST1OPST.thumb.JPG.816b8d01578b84bcec3289e50390bbad.JPG279079559_TEST1.thumb.JPG.435ebbde0ee4dc13c379f6ae1292d290.JPG2087629468_TEST1CHANCHES.thumb.JPG.5615520e472e6e09c3cccec3962dd605.JPG

 

DARK SIDE OF MOON 352 TEST 2 with deeper DLP
Won PL, Europe SC, FA cup and Carabao cup and CL.

1777017187_Test2OPST.thumb.JPG.8f6c00dcb95dd563f08a8243efac8966.JPG1188877369_Test2.thumb.JPG.c6f1deeba2042aa0ae777a29c33e911a.JPG1477192586_Test2chances.thumb.JPG.325b5f5e339df3fe9820019af197b6cb.JPG

Very happy with the result. Thanks for the tactic my man!

 

 

 

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