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Round 16: Spain v Russia

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2 minutes ago, Ackter said:

Some of the passes need to go forwards tbh.

They thought it was rugby rules.

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32 minutes ago, EnterUsernameHere said:

AS/MARCA etc are going to slaughter De Gea after this tournament. Lucky for Aspas/Koke.

Probably fair as he's been one of their poorest players. Koke been poor mind you when he's played (and missed pen) Aspas done nothing wrong except miss pen but damage was done before him by Koke because DDG wasn't going to save one if they were all on target.

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2 minutes ago, pearcey_90 said:

Probably fair as he's been one of their poorest players. Koke been poor mind you when he's played (and missed pen) Aspas done nothing wrong except miss pen but damage was done before him by Koke because DDG wasn't going to save one if they were all on target.

He's not been one of their poorest players at all.  He's a goal line keeper whereas Ramos and co are used to a sweeper keeper. Then entire back line has made numerous mistakes. I mean, what was Pique thinking with the hand ball.

And even putting all that aside, the game plan from Spain has been a joke.

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Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

He's not been one of their poorest players at all.  He's a goal line keeper whereas Ramos and co are used to a sweeper keeper. Then entire back line has made numerous mistakes. I mean, what was Pique thinking with the hand ball

Surely his inability to come off his line as a sweeper doesn’t mean he’s not been one of their poorest players? Just means he has a better excuse than most for it.

He made 1 save from 11 shots on target and looked shaky generally too. I think it’s fair to criticism him. Going forward he has a lot to prove internationally about whether he’s a good fit for Spain.

No doubts domestically of course.

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2 minutes ago, EnterUsernameHere said:

Surely his inability to come off his line as a sweeper doesn’t mean he’s not been one of their poorest players? Just means he has a better excuse than most for it.

He made 1 save from 11 shots on target and looked shaky generally too. I think it’s fair to criticism him. Going forward he has a lot to prove internationally about whether he’s a good fit for Spain.

No doubts domestically of course.

I'm not saying the critcism isn't fair, hes not been great. That comes from a mismatch of what he and the centre defenders are trying to do. This is more bad tactical choices, rather than mistakes from the three of them, because despite knowing they play differently, at no point have Spain tried to actually deal with this leading into the World Cup. Which creates insecurity in your keeper and instability in your defence

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16 minutes ago, Heartwork said:

Perez is immune, he can do what he wants. Up to the Spanish FA to show they have the balls to punish Madrid for tapping up the national team manager days before the World Cup.

What would they be punished for though?

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Wait, was Akinfeev screaming at the defender pointing at VAR after the shirt grabbing? :D 

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Great explanation by Clattenburg on the Ramos/Pique penalty decision.

Before that, I thought it was a clear penalty. What a difference having a referee's explanation right after the match makes. Can't wait to see this logical and helpful thing integrated in 50 ****ing years.

Edited by git2thachoppa

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49 minutes ago, Andrew_ said:

One of Russia, Croatia, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, England, or Colombia is going to the World Cup final.

Croatia to win it, deservedly.

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7 minutes ago, git2thachoppa said:

What would they be punished for though?

Tapping up a manager without permission from his current employer?

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2 minutes ago, Heartwork said:

Tapping up a manager without permission from his current employer?

If he had a release clause in his contract allowing him to be approached and negotiate with others, then not only was it allowed, but it's an admission by both sides that it might happen.

Rubiales had to (probably legally) say Lopetegui actually "did nothing wrong".

Edited by git2thachoppa

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Hierro should be locked away for persisting with Koke over Thiago. Thiago will be 31 by the next world cup, what a waste of talent.

Imagine if Brazil had Thiago in their midfield, ooft.

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10 minutes ago, git2thachoppa said:

Great explanation by Clattenburg on the Ramos/Pique penalty decision.

Before that, I thought it was a clear penalty. What a difference having a referee's explanation right after the match makes. Can't wait to see this logical and helpful thing integrated in 50 ****ing years.

Yep, was great that they used the various angles to show what the VAR would have seen rather than just blandly debating it. 

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25 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I'm not saying the critcism isn't fair, hes not been great. That comes from a mismatch of what he and the centre defenders are trying to do. This is more bad tactical choices, rather than mistakes from the three of them, because despite knowing they play differently, at no point have Spain tried to actually deal with this leading into the World Cup. Which creates insecurity in your keeper and instability in your defence

No arguments there, agree with that.

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18 minutes ago, ArsenalFan7 said:

Hierro should be locked away for persisting with Koke over Thiago. Thiago will be 31 by the next world cup, what a waste of talent.

Crazy really. Hope he can boss the euros, but his career seems to be flying by.

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2 hours ago, craigcwwe said:

Akinfeev way off his line for that last penalty though, should have been retaken. 

Nah. One foot still on the line and the other in the air making taking a step, that's universally allowed. 

Don't get me wrong, I'd be all for being stricter on keepers when it comes to this but isn't even close to being called anywhere and certainly not in a WC knock-out game.

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1 hour ago, git2thachoppa said:

Great explanation by Clattenburg on the Ramos/Pique penalty decision.

Before that, I thought it was a clear penalty. What a difference having a referee's explanation right after the match makes. Can't wait to see this logical and helpful thing integrated in 50 ****ing years.

What did he say? Jonas Eriksson in the Swedish studio thought they where right to not call a PK. He thought Pique did as much grabbing as the defender and that Ramos did more than his. Also factor in that Pique was nowhere near to getting the ball regardless.

Eriksson has been really good tbh, has had a few interesting stories to tell too. Apparently Lichtsteiner is one of the most "unpleasant" players he's ever refereed.  :D 

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28 minutes ago, Mr Wallin said:

What did he say? Jonas Eriksson in the Swedish studio thought they where right to not call a PK. He thought Pique did as much grabbing as the defender and that Ramos did more than his. Also factor in that Pique was nowhere near to getting the ball regardless.

Eriksson has been really good tbh, has had a few interesting stories to tell too. Apparently Lichtsteiner is one of the most "unpleasant" players he's ever refereed.  :D 

Pretty much the same. He said Pique wasn't a factor because it wasn't clear and obvious, and Ramos was grappling just as much but also twisted round the defender to manufacture a penalty, a technique he uses all the time.

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Russia going to have a lot of newborns in 9 months. 

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Spain can only blame themself.

 

Russia wasn't good and with the amount of good players Spain has, it should've been a rather easy win. But they had absolutely no clue what to do with the ball, when they had it. And Hierro looked even more clueless on the bench.

 

Sacking Lopetegui was a HUGE mistake. But if it had to be done, then why not call Luis Enrique or del Bosque up and ask if they fancy a trip to Russia? WTF where they thinking in the Spanish FA to give the job to a totally unexperianced guy? :D 

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4 minutes ago, Orzelek said:

Spain can only blame themself.

 

Russia wasn't good and with the amount of good players Spain has, it should've been a rather easy win. But they had absolutely no clue what to do with the ball, when they had it. And Hierro looked even more clueless on the bench.

 

Sacking Lopetegui was a HUGE mistake. But if it had to be done, then why not call Luis Enrique or del Bosque up and ask if they fancy a trip to Russia? WTF where they thinking in the Spanish FA to give the job to a totally unexperianced guy? :D 

Not only that but a REAL MADRID GUY. :lol:

Rubiales' job is to give Spanish football the best chance, and the sacking was not done with that in mind. It was personal, and by all accounts against the team's wishes.

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Blaming Hierro isn't really fair I guess. He dared to step in this crazy mess. Of course he doesn't has a perfect tactical plan... The players and other staff are more to blame. On beforehand I thought Spain would lose to a big team with this mess, but apparently Russia was big enough...

Edited by himan

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5 hours ago, himan said:

Blaming Hierro isn't really fair I guess. He dared to step in this crazy mess. Of course he doesn't has a perfect tactical plan... The players and other staff are more to blame. On beforehand I thought Spain would lose to a big team with this mess, but apparently Russia was big enough...

 

I'm more blaming the choice of Hierro, then Hierro himself. What he did, is what you could expect from a guy with no experiance at this level.

 

Rubiales and the other morons at RFEF should be the ones to blame.

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Honestly dont think changing the manager had any bearing on that result.

Regardless of who the manager, right now, Spain play this nice passing game in the middle of the park, hoping an opportunity to score will come up. That's not how you beat this Russian side.

They'd have still played the same way.

 

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I'm not so sure about that. It's inevitable that changing the manager will affect certain mechanisms and foundations that were previously implemented. Even though Hierro said that they would change as little as possible, I believe before this he was the technical director so he probably did not spend many hours on the pitch with the players. I also felt in some matches prior to the WC I've seen Spain play better than they did during the WC itself. It's all diving into assumptions of course, but I do think the whole saga with the manager sacking one day before the start of the tournament will have had it's negative impact on the group. 

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Spain doing Spain, at 1-1 it wasn't overly surprising it went to pens. They are missing something from the 'great' Spain side of some years back, is it Xavi? They don't quite have the penetration so they are just passing it around and across, sometimes it seems like they don't even attempt to do more.

I couldn't be more bored with the 'completed passes' stat.

Tell us other passing stats, passes into box, crosses, passes over 10 yard completion, 15 yards, 20, just anything that might actually mean something other than 'pass completion' which I have next to zero interest in!

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My facebook is full of bitter liverpool fans too, I'm sure he's crying into his 4 CLs, 2 Euros and 1 World Cup winners medals :D

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5 hours ago, Confused Clarity said:

Honestly dont think changing the manager had any bearing on that result.

Regardless of who the manager, right now, Spain play this nice passing game in the middle of the park, hoping an opportunity to score will come up. That's not how you beat this Russian side.

They'd have still played the same way.

 

Nah they were definitely playing a bit different under Lopetegui from what I'd seen, even had them with a back 3 setup plan B he's used a lot etc. All went out the window when he was fired.

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8 hours ago, Cedrik said:

I'm not so sure about that. It's inevitable that changing the manager will affect certain mechanisms and foundations that were previously implemented. Even though Hierro said that they would change as little as possible, I believe before this he was the technical director so he probably did not spend many hours on the pitch with the players. I also felt in some matches prior to the WC I've seen Spain play better than they did during the WC itself. It's all diving into assumptions of course, but I do think the whole saga with the manager sacking one day before the start of the tournament will have had it's negative impact on the group. 

 

Spain played well under Lopetegui, which can't be said about the 4 games under this WC. And the whole mess created a lot of unnecessary trouble around the team. 

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I think the rationale behind Hierro as manager was that he had just about enough experience (and reputation as a player) to be able to select a team, but nowhere near enough to try and impose his own philosophy on the team when Lopetegui's philosophy was working fine. Trouble is, you need someone capable of demanding more off the ball movement and ambition, and a plan B is very good thing to have. Ask Roberto Martinez...

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3 hours ago, enigmatic said:

I think the rationale behind Hierro as manager was that he had just about enough experience (and reputation as a player) to be able to select a team, but nowhere near enough to try and impose his own philosophy on the team when Lopetegui's philosophy was working fine. Trouble is, you need someone capable of demanding more off the ball movement and ambition, and a plan B is very good thing to have. Ask Roberto Martinez...

I don't think there was any rationale. They simply needed to shove in someone already in the setup who closely enough resembled a manager because they had a game in literally 2 days' time.

Edited by git2thachoppa

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Think they could have got Luis Enrique (added bonus of annoying Perez!) or even del Bosque back to do it for a World Cup.

 

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I heard someone say you couldn't change the manager that close to the tournament. They had to select someone from their current group of personal for that reason. Kind of like how players can't be changed unless injured. I have no idea if that was true or not - it's not exactly easy to find the rules on that kind of thing!

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4 minutes ago, Tony85 said:

I heard someone say you couldn't change the manager that close to the tournament. They had to select someone from their current group of personal for that reason. Kind of like how players can't be changed unless injured. I have no idea if that was true or not - it's not exactly easy to find the rules on that kind of thing!

Someone did say something about a manager has to be in place 48 hours before the start of the tournament, so maybe this could be got around if it was someone from the existing setup (Hierro).

Edited by Baptista_8

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Hierro's options didn't look great (why keep 2 holding midfielders for that long against a team that does not want to attack?), but I don't think it's fair to judge him based on this. How do you properly prepare a world cup when you're put in the job 2 days from the first game, with players you did not pick, when you've been out of management for a while and have little experience. On those circumstances the main job is to prevent a total morale/dressing room collapse, the nuances of training proper movement on and off the ball, fall a little on the priority list...

I was listening to a podcast yesterday and I can't remember who said it (it was either on the Football Ramble or the Totally Football pod) but someone said "that looked like a parody of tiki-taka" or "tiki without the taka". And that is absolutely 100% right. Hogging the ball all day long works, but only if you can get a little through ball on, or a dribble forward on occasionally. Passing sideways all day long like Spain did Sunday is pointless and defeats the whole point of tiki-taka in the first place, it can't work without penetration. It's almost like, if you do it proper you make risky passes to your team-mates and make risky dribbles, 100% confident on your ability and your team-mates' ability to never lose the ball. But Spain did the opposite, they attempted zero risky movement, zero risky passes or dribbles, afraid of losing the ball. It's putting a negative spin on it instead of a positive spin and the result shows.

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3 hours ago, Baptista_8 said:

 

It looks like he's glaring at the Russian players celebrating.

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It's easy being the manager when the decision isn't really on your shoulders, isn't it.

I told 'im, I told 'im

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