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Rob1981

Group G: England v Panama (1300BST)

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I think we should go all out against Belgium. If we win it shows people that we are up there and it keeps the momentum going. If we lose we could possibly have a bye to the final.

(Saying that I've been out since 10.30 so I could have my judgement clouded)

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Harry Kane to be the only player on the pitch to care, chasing the Golden Boot, score the only goal, and then England to lose to Brazil on the quarters whilst Belgium go on to the final.

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1 hour ago, butts said:

What did Young do wrong today?

Young has done nothing wrong. He also has done nothing right. He has done nothing, for two games. Nothing. Compare that to Trippier on the other side, arguably motm for both games and leads the chances created charts for the WC. We need a left footed player on the left, not Young cutting back on his right. He offers absolutely nothing. He's just there.

Edited by Tiger666

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4 minutes ago, noikeee said:

Harry Kane to be the only player on the pitch to care, chasing the Golden Boot, score the only goal, and then England to lose to Brazil on the quarters whilst Belgium go on to the final.

Still don't see how everyone thinks Brazil will win their group. They're level with Switzerland but have to face a tough Serbian side while the Swiss are up against Costa Rica who are the weakest team in the group.

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58 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Has anyone ever scored a worse World Cup hattrick than Harry Kane. 2 penalties (great penalties, but still) and a hilariously obviously accidental deflection

He's so good he scored by accident

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13 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

Young has done nothing wrong. He also has done nothing right. He has done nothing, for two games. Nothing. Compare that to Trippier on the other side, arguably motm for both games and leads the chances created charts for the WC. We need a left footed player on the left, not Young cutting back on his right. He offers absolutely nothing. He's just there.

I agree unless we have someone else on left who can over lap.

A right footer on the left will always cut in, if however he has someone overlapping then that opens up space for him and allows more options.

 

That said I wouldnt have young in the squad in any position.

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8 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Has Kane had a shot in open play yet... 5 goals but has done nothing.!! 

I mean technically his two goals vs Tunisia were open play. Kane's basically doing what you want from a striker anyway. He's getting the goals. He could score every remaining goal England score in the tournament and fire them to victory and we'd still say "but what has he really done?"

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8 minutes ago, scott MUFC said:

hopefully Sterling is dropped for Rashford next game, did naff all again

Apart from doing well, chasing after every ball, and setting up Lingard for his goal with a good bit of play.

Although funnily enough I think Rashford should play next game as well! 

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8 minutes ago, scott MUFC said:

hopefully Sterling is dropped for Rashford next game, did naff all again

He setup Lingard's goal. But yeah, I would like to see what Rashford can do in the next game. Might be interesting to see if Alli is fit to come back.

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3 hours ago, Weezer said:

dEWKIsNM4OQofV10sCWb-yJZ3ufDhkw5W5n3i_IH

Panama defending. Sponsored by Huggies.

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23 minutes ago, Redshift said:

He setup Lingard's goal. But yeah, I would like to see what Rashford can do in the next game. Might be interesting to see if Alli is fit to come back.

Would still rather RLC start though. He did well, although Harry Kane stole his goal.

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29 minutes ago, Redshift said:

He setup Lingard's goal. But yeah, I would like to see what Rashford can do in the next game. Might be interesting to see if Alli is fit to come back.

Wow, he setup Lingard's goal? I forgot about that but he really put it on a plate for him didn't he? motm performance for that assist! :D

Seriously that's a bit of a stretch isn't it? You're making out like he put it on a plate for Lingard, did you see the goal or are you reading stats/reports? That goal was all Lingard.

Edited by Hodgy

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4 hours ago, Bliss Seeker said:

Kane has me all confused :d

Think he's been one our worst players in both games, yet here he is with 5 goals and a match ball. 

Trippier is bloody amazing though. His delivery and decision making is as good as anything we've seen in the cup. Young on the otherside not so much. 

Henderson's impressed too. 

Defence is dodgy as **** though. 

Yeah, Kane hasn't been great, and yet still hit 5. His off the ball movement isn't great at the moment, and Sterling is doing all the running for him at the moment. Sounds mad to say, but he needs to be doing more. 

Henderson, Lingard and Trippier been excellent

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1 hour ago, Heartwork said:

Why do you hate Sterling so much? I didn't know you wrote for The Sun.

I'm guessing that's at me as you've quoted no one and posted straight after me.

Where do you get that I hate Sterling from? I'm genuinely confused as I've never mentioned him until today.

I've not posted anything regarding his personal stuff as I don't know or care about it and regarding his performances only today I thought he was non existent and posted that at half time. I also said I hoped he stayed on the pitch so he could score and I even said he wasn't in his proper position so it's not his fault however crediting him with setting up Lingard's goal is a stretch.

I'm sure you either A) have me confused with someone else or B) you've done a typical sheep style response without checking your facts as you follow the masses and can't think for yourself so you've just posted some **** without even checking your facts for a like.

I've wasted more time on that post and you than I wanted to but asking why I hate Sterling is nonsense, the only England player I've properly criticised in the two games has been Harry Maguire!

Little point in you responding to me either as I genuinely won't see it, you should've put more time into your post that I quoted rather than write complete nonsense!

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2 hours ago, Hodgy said:

Wow, he setup Lingard's goal? I forgot about that but he really put it on a plate for him didn't he? motm performance for that assist! :D

Seriously that's a bit of a stretch isn't it? You're making out like he put it on a plate for Lingard, did you see the goal or are you reading stats/reports? That goal was all Lingard.

Someone said Sterling did naff all and I said he did something. I'm hardly bigging him up, especially as I have said I would prefer Rashford over Sterling. :)

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For the 5th goal pen, such is the state of football these days I think Kane deserves a lot of credit for not rolling around the floor and making more of it. The Panama defender literally punched him in the back of his head. 

 

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I really think that people find the slightest thing to praise Sterling for, when really he should be doing a hell of a lot more. Let's hope he brings out some quality performances come the knockouts.

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I think all the tabloid scumbaggery has an effect on that. Some people are now a bit too defensive by overcompensating.

I don’t blame him for his poor England record though, the tactics just aren’t suited to him so of course he can’t replicate his club form. 

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Sterling had his header saved before Stones put it in, was a great free kick that btw.

I am still not 100% on our defence and this Walkers as centre back thing. I don't think we should get too clever with finishing top or 2nd. Japan and even Senegal didn't massively impress but Senegal have the potential to improve, Colombia are no walkover. At least by our game we'll know all the other group finishing spots.

I expect rotated teams but still going for the win but not at 100% with the game's pace slowing as it goes on

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Problem now is what do you do with Walker? Even if moving him back to RB for the tougher games was the plan before, is it even an option now? 

Trippier's not just been England's best player, I think he's been one of the stand out stars of the tournament so far.

I think that 3 is going to stay as it is and most likely cost us. 

Expect to see some TAA action with Trippier given a rest against Belgium though. 

Edited by Bliss Seeker

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I expect TAA too and back to this back 3 in the last 16.

It feels a bit like he didn't want to choose between Walker and Trippier, I expect we'll persist if we've started like that but I am not 100% loving it :/

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I dont think we can learn anything from the first two games... So we should play the same team vs Belgium and go for the win and see if this lot are capable. If we play bteam and lose it may paper the cracks, we learn nothing again. Play b team and win and say Welbeck or Vardy score some real goals... Does that muddy the water for the second round? 

We are yet to create any good goalscoring opportunities from open play. We have 2 pens 3 corners 1 free kick 1 great long shot 1 flukey long shot.

Lets use the Belgium game for true benefit... Players dont seriously need a rest for gods sake

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8 hours ago, Baptista_8 said:

I really think that people find the slightest thing to praise Sterling for, when really he should be doing a hell of a lot more. Let's hope he brings out some quality performances come the knockouts.

On the other hand, there seems to be some who seem to refuse to acknowledge any contribution of his. I saw a comment on reddit that blamed him for the misses against Tunisia even though the only miss he did was offside anyway.

Sterling was decent against Panama. Nothing special, decent. Lingard definitely outshone him quite comfortably, but they seem to link up well. 

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Don't even bother its Baptista, England win 6-1 and he only comes into the thread to somehow have a go at Sterling, he's pathetic 

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11 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

I dont think we can learn anything from the first two games... So we should play the same team vs Belgium and go for the win and see if this lot are capable. If we play bteam and lose it may paper the cracks, we learn nothing again. Play b team and win and say Welbeck or Vardy score some real goals... Does that muddy the water for the second round? 

We are yet to create any good goalscoring opportunities from open play. We have 2 pens 3 corners 1 free kick 1 great long shot 1 flukey long shot.

Lets use the Belgium game for true benefit... Players dont seriously need a rest for gods sake

We missed about twenty against Tunisia, the 1 great long shot can still count, one of the penalties yesterday was bringing down Lingard from a great open play chance as well...

I think we should definitely rotate the squad against Belgium - there is nout to play for (it might even be beneficial to finish second) and other players need game time. If we have genuine ambitions to progress through several knockout games, players will need a rest. As long as it's not a heavy defeat which knocks the stuffing out of us, it should be fine, particularly given that Belgium will almost certainly rest players too.

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We missed two or 3 in quick succession vs Tunisia then nothing for the next 70 mins. 

We should have been carving tjose teams up. Brazil played reasonably poor vs Costa Rica but still had double figure shots on goal... And loads of touches in the box... As soon as we face a team who can defend corners, on current showing, we will be out... Unless the plan really is to hit it from range and get a miracle deflection off Kane

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11 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

We missed two or 3 in quick succession vs Tunisia then nothing for the next 70 mins. 

We should have been carving tjose teams up. Brazil played reasonably poor vs Costa Rica but still had double figure shots on goal... And loads of touches in the box... As soon as we face a team who can defend corners, on current showing, we will be out... Unless the plan really is to hit it from range and get a miracle deflection off Kane

You're literally the reason I hate most England/football fans :D. I can understand your points but it's not how football works, what did you expect, a 6-1 drubbing of Tunisia as well? You can say we should have been carving those teams up, but on current showing, half of the so-called 'top' teams wouldn't have done either.

Performance against 'lesser' teams is never the best yardstick by which to measure a football team. Heck, both Man Utd and Man City were losing at certain points last season to my team Bristol City, but there's no way you could draw a comparison of Utd v City based on those games. It's not how the game works. There are all sorts of upsets you can come back to in club football; it rarely means that the top team is crap. So for us to 'only' win 2-1 and 'only' score from predominantly set pieces in these games isn't something you can draw any conclusions on imo.

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8 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

We missed two or 3 in quick succession vs Tunisia then nothing for the next 70 mins. 

We should have been carving tjose teams up. Brazil played reasonably poor vs Costa Rica but still had double figure shots on goal... And loads of touches in the box... As soon as we face a team who can defend corners, on current showing, we will be out... Unless the plan really is to hit it from range and get a miracle deflection off Kane

We had 18 shots against Tunisia with 8 on target. First half we were creating loads and loads of chances from open play.

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I really like Harry Kane but what does he ever do? I mean he's scored so many goals for Tottenham over the last 4 years, has a great ratio for England. Scored 5 in the WC so far but I'm still not sure what attributes he has... 

He just appears to be that striker that is always there for the ball to fall to in the box, and is a great finisher, but so many times he is nowhere near the box as he's dropped deep. He can look slow with the ball too but somehow is also absolutely amazing! 

I genuinely don't understand how he's so good. :D:D

(This is not a criticism of Kane at all, long may his reign continue) 

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4 minutes ago, Robbie.Knox said:

You're literally the reason I hate most England/football fans :D. I can understand your points but it's not how football works, what did you expect, a 6-1 drubbing of Tunisia as well? You can say we should have been carving those teams up, but on current showing, half of the so-called 'top' teams wouldn't have done either.

Performance against 'lesser' teams is never the best yardstick by which to measure a football team. Heck, both Man Utd and Man City were losing at certain points last season to my team Bristol City, but there's no way you could draw a comparison of Utd v City based on those games. It's not how the game works. There are all sorts of upsets you can come back to in club football; it rarely means that the top team is crap. So for us to 'only' win 2-1 and 'only' score from predominantly set pieces in these games isn't something you can draw any conclusions on imo.

1-0 with a clear plan of where our goals are coming from is better than 6-1 being handed penalties and set piece goals by a team incredibly ill equipped to deal with them.

I don't hate you :D that's a bit strong Robbie! But on the flip side you are the kind of fan that gets me riled up by only seeing the result. Bold bit I absolutely agree, that was my point above that you disagreed with :) Belgium game is our chance to see if this lot can really play. If not we have time to change it, if we play B team then back to this bunch for a knockout game vs a decent side it's too late.

Literally Kane is going to win the golden boot without getting on the end of a through ball or good cross (from a non-set piece passage of play). Kids in 50 years time will hear about the legendary England striker who broke all world cup records... and like I grew up with Videos of Pele, they will go and buy the videos of this Kane world cup ... they are going to be bitterly disappointed when they see how it was done.

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1 minute ago, westy8chimp said:

Literally Kane is going to win the golden boot without getting on the end of a through ball or good cross (from a non-set piece passage of play). Kids in 50 years time will hear about the legendary England striker who broke all world cup records... and like I grew up with Videos of Pele, they will go and buy the videos of this Kane world cup ... they are going to be bitterly disappointed when they see how it was done.

No ones gonna give a hoot in 50 years time how the goals went in if Kane breaks all WC records. Goals win games, off the backside, from a set-piece, own goals. 

Yes, lovely flowing football, through balls, triangles around the box, but remember we have played two teams who have very much set up not to lose and closed down the space around the box. 

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4 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

1-0 with a clear plan of where our goals are coming from is better than 6-1 being handed penalties and set piece goals by a team incredibly ill equipped to deal with them.

I don't hate you :D that's a bit strong Robbie! But on the flip side you are the kind of fan that gets me riled up by only seeing the result. Bold bit I absolutely agree, that was my point above that you disagreed with :) Belgium game is our chance to see if this lot can really play. If not we have time to change it, if we play B team then back to this bunch for a knockout game vs a decent side it's too late.

Literally Kane is going to win the golden boot without getting on the end of a through ball or good cross (from a non-set piece passage of play). Kids in 50 years time will hear about the legendary England striker who broke all world cup records... and like I grew up with Videos of Pele, they will go and buy the videos of this Kane world cup ... they are going to be bitterly disappointed when they see how it was done.

I didn't say you hated me, my first sentence was more of a jesting frustration than literal hatred :thup:. I think the whole 'Belgium is a good test' thing is a non-sense though, they will be resting players and I can see the game being played at a canter, no one will want any injuries and will not want to take any risks, particularly given second place could be beneficial.

And @Mark H, I completely agree, I'd always been this way with Kane. I have no idea what he does, he's not lightning fast, he's not a tank in the air, he's not massively skilful or blessed with flair. He's just... there :D. It's kind of bizarre. Still a great player mind you.

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When you play against teams who are just set up to defend against you, you've done well to win no matter how you managed it, its what all the great club sides have done over the years. You judge how well a player/team is on a grander level when they play the top sides, Kane might not have actually done much yet 'apart from score 5 goals,' but look how other top players have struggled so far and done nothing 

Complaining about the style of play against a team set up to defend is the same as getting carried away with scoring 6 goals against a poor side 

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1 minute ago, Barry Cartman said:

Complaining about the style of play against a team set up to defend is the same as getting carried away with scoring 6 goals against a poor side

kind of what I meant with my first post - that we have learnt nothing (good or bad).

So would you rest team or try and learn more?

Robbie is right, Belgium might well choose to rest a few. I'd still say trying 100% to beat their B team is more valuable than the two games we've had. And if we lose or can't create chances gives Gareth a chance to work on things before the knockout.

If we rotate and win 3-0 with a Vardy hatrick... does that change the team in the second round? Is it useful? If we lose 2-0 is it useful?

It's the world cup and it's maximum of 7 games over a month, rest shouldn't come into it.

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22 minutes ago, Mark H said:

I really like Harry Kane but what does he ever do? I mean he's scored so many goals for Tottenham over the last 4 years, has a great ratio for England. Scored 5 in the WC so far but I'm still not sure what attributes he has... 

He just appears to be that striker that is always there for the ball to fall to in the box, and is a great finisher, but so many times he is nowhere near the box as he's dropped deep. He can look slow with the ball too but somehow is also absolutely amazing! 

I genuinely don't understand how he's so good. :D:D

(This is not a criticism of Kane at all, long may his reign continue) 

I agree.  He is a terrible, terrible player and any teams looking to sign him should just forget about it.

They should sign Moussa Sissoko instead!  France were crazy to leave him at home.

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I'll be the first to admit I got Kane wrong when he first arrived on the scene.

The man can score goals and that's all you need from a striker. I don't care if it's a 768 pass goal or a tap in from 2 yards, the aim of the game is to get that round thing in between 2 posts.

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I am very much in favour of Gareth playing his strongest team against Belgium, tournaments are all about building momentum, if you massively change the team you make that a lot more difficult for yourself.

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Just now, Crispypaul said:

I agree.  He is a terrible, terrible player and any teams looking to sign him should just forget about it.

They should sign Moussa Sissoko instead!  France were crazy to leave him at home.

:D I'm saying he's flipping excellent! Finishing and his mental attributes are amazing no doubt. But you, as a Spurs fan, watch him every week. I want to know what his other strengths are, I haven't seen him anywhere near as much as you. He just scores goals (not that i'm complaining)

Just to confirm. I love Harry Kane! 

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9 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

So would you rest team or try and learn more?

I don't see the point in resting players, what if Vardy comes in against Belgium and scores a hat trick, do we then have to change our system and shape to fit him in, or just put him back on the bench despite a hat trick against one of the best sides 

Only change i'd make is Rose for Young as I don't think we've seen anything from him yet and don't think it ruins the shape to make that change 

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4 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

I don't see the point in resting players, what if Vardy comes in against Belgium and scores a hat trick, do we then have to change our system and shape to fit him in, or just put him back on the bench despite a hat trick against one of the best sides 

Only change i'd make is Rose for Young as I don't think we've seen anything from him yet and don't think it ruins the shape to make that change 

My concern with Rose is he isn't entirely match fit, but might as well play him against Belgium considering we have already qualified.

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I think Southgate wants to make sure every outfield player in the 23 plays a part at some point, either by starting or sub roles. He touched on this in his interview, talking about the 23 and how they shouldn't feel they are there to make up the numbers, and wants to give them every chance to believe they could be playing in the WC. He said its been a problem at other WCs where some lads know they weren't going to play which affected the dynamic and morale in the camp...
 

Pickford

Jones Stones Cahill

Trent Henderson Dier Rose

Rashford Kane Alli

Subs to come on - Welbeck, Vardy or Lingard, Delph 

Spine stays the same, can play as 343 or 352, or 532. Not noticeably weaker. I may rest Henderson, and if so would start Lingard again. 
 

Edited by Mark H

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26 minutes ago, Mark H said:

:D I'm saying he's flipping excellent! Finishing and his mental attributes are amazing no doubt. But you, as a Spurs fan, watch him every week. I want to know what his other strengths are, I haven't seen him anywhere near as much as you. He just scores goals (not that i'm complaining)

Just to confirm. I love Harry Kane! 

I don't watch Spurs every week or anything, but from what I've seen he's very good at holding up the ball and is very strong. He's actually a really good passer of the ball as well so when he does drop deep, midfield runners can get ahead and can be confident of getting the ball back, or he'll spread it wide and get in the box himself. 

He's a bit of an all rounder really. He's strong enough and a good enough header of the ball to be a target man, but he's very capable of dropping deep or going wide and linking up with midfielders, which is very handy when you have a 5 man midfield. We haven't actually seen him do a truck load of this at the world cup so far either, it's been more Sterling, Lingard, and RLC/Alli's job to get the ball in those areas and they've all been linking with each other, which Tunisia couldn't handle in the first half.

His main quality seems to be finding space in the box which we saw against Tunisia, and then this is matched by his finishing ability. I loved how confident he was with the two penalties yesterday and the fact he put them both in pretty much the exact same place.

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