Closing down settings

[Ron Wandle]

I'm still not really sure what closing down settings to use for my team's tactics, or even much about how they are successfully used.

A first thought was that maybe the weaker team should close down more to try and stop the stronger team from playing, but I'm not sure whether that's the case. If a weaker team is using defensive tactics, do they even want to be closing down more? By moving towards the ball, they are losing team shape, something very important to defense, and creating holes that can be exploited.

Furthermore, attacking teams may use high closing down tactics, such as Guardiola's Barcelona and Klopp/Liverpool's gegenpressing. I can see how a counter-attacking style might benefit from high levels of closing down, as it's all about the regaining of possession of the ball followed by a rapid transition to attack.

Take the team I am playing, for example. Currently I'm top dog in League One, where I'm attacking a lot. Next season, I'll be promoted to the Championship and it'll be a very different kettle of fish, with a lot more utilization of defensive tactics, while trying to find points against much stronger teams. Should my closing down settings change as I go from being the stronger team to the weaker team?
 
Or maybe it's also something that should be linked to the attributes of the team? I have a team with very high levels of Determination, Teamwork and Work Rate. With a team that's strong in these areas, should be using higher levels of closing down? Maybe Stamina and Natural Fitness may also play apart. 

Here are my three main tactics and thoughts on what closing down settings they should use.

Balanced 4-2-3-1 - I'm not really sure what closing down settings to use. I used to use high pressing, but now use normal, but for no particular reason as I don't know what I'm doing.

Defensive 4-1-2-3 - For use against superior opposition. Again, I don't know about the closing down - part of me thinks I should be closing down more in order to stop the stronger team from passing the ball, but the other part of me thinks I should be closing down less in order to retain defensive shape. Could it perhaps depend on the tactics? If I'm using this formation with a Defensive mentality, then less closing down for structure reasons, but if using Counter, then use more closing down?

Attacking 4-2-4 - Basically, an all-out attack, changing the No. 10 of the 4-2-3-1 into a striker, possibly with more direct passing. I'm guessing that for this very attacking formation, that closing down level should be high, as it's all about aggressively getting the ball and attacking.

Any thoughts on how best to use the closing down settings in one's tactics?

[herne79]

There is no "should".  There is no "best".

It's linked to the style of football you want to play and whether your players are capable of playing in that style.  If you want to play with lots of pressing, then set your team up to do so, but telling them to do something and them actually being capable of being able to do it are two different things.  You've already recognised that in your players, so you're looking at the right things .

Can you set up a heavy press if you are one of the bottom clubs?  Yes, with the right players, BUT always be prepared to adapt if you see your system is struggling.  And that's true of any tactical system you employ.

[HUNT3R]

I adjust based on what I see. I more is needed... I press more. If we're getting pulled out of position, I press less.

 

That's the key. It's less and more. Less and more than the default you ALREADY have.

[Snorks]

Like @herne79 says, it depends on the style you want to play. I have seen a successful tactic using a kind of Kloppy Gegenressing  4231 - the four forwards were all given PIs to aggressively close down, while the CMs and defenders were more disciplined and held position. 

It will also be highly dependent on the players you have available.

[Ron Wandle]

I've been reading some real football articles on pressing/closing down. I've selected some parts from a couple of articles which I feel provide some insight that can be transferred to the FM game.

Article 1: "Analysis: How a high-pressing game works in football" (Sportskeeda/ZainMahmood: https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/analysis-how-high-pressing-game-works-football)

- Describes how high pressing/closing down tactics have been used by possession-hungry sides like Barcelona, Spain, Roma and Bayern Munich under Pep Guardiola, as well as sides a bit more direct with the ball, such as Chile, Madrid and Borussia Dortmund.

- Importance of Work Rate across the team for pressing: 

"The formation requires all 11 players to press, and only at top sides like Real Madrid can a compromise of one player’s lack of defensive work-rate be reached."

- Need for high-defensive backline with pressing tactics:

"If the defence stays deep and the forwards press forward, then there is a lot of space in the middle of the park and all the keeper needs to do is knock the ball over the first line of pressure."

- Need for defenders with Quickness and maybe Agility with the high line: "To stop this, the centrebacks need to be pacy and good on the ball so that they can run on the turn"

- Sweeper Keeper: "The keeper needs to be quick and good on the ball to advance forward and sweep up any loose balls (Manuel Neuer and Hugo Lloris are brilliant in this regard)."

- Need for high Stamina with high closing down tactics: "The biggest problem in this system. It takes a lot of running and energy to sustain this pressing for 90 minute".

- Need for all players in team to work together with high closing down tactics: "Disjointed Pressing: If one player neglects his defensive responsibilities, it could be catastrophic for the entire system."

- Don't press against more skilful teams: "A good team, which can keep the ball and stretch the opposition, can stand up to a high pressing system. The can keep the opposition moving and tire them out before striking"

Article 2: "Pressing, Counterpressing and Counterattacking" (martiperarnau/Adin Osmanbasic: https://www.martiperarnau.com/pressing-counterpressing-and-counterattacking/)

- Interesting discussion of when Mourinho's Inter Milan played Barcelona. He didn't want his players to have the ball: 

"Mourinho’s men immediately rid themselves of the ball in transition in order to avoid any sort of disorganization which would stem from being counterpressed or losing the ball after a counterattack. Mourinho said after the game that he didn’t want his side to have the ball".

So in FM terms, it could be said that Mourinho was using a Defensive mentality, with a high level of team Structure, and with a low level of Closing Down.

- Use of Closing Down tactics with high defensive line: "If a team played with a high defensive line but didn’t pressure the ball they would concede a lot of goals because of allowing long passes into the space behind the defenders".

- "If a team which played very horizontally compact didn’t pressure the ball they would have a very hard time defending because every switch of the ball would expose the underloaded far side". I don't quite get this.

- "The ball is much easier to take from an opponent who controls it poorly". This suggests that a more skilful team should press a less skilful team, which is maybe why Guardiola's Barcelona did it, as well as other top sides.

- "Pressing is not always “collective” either, the collective positional structure is made up of individual players in specific positions and specific phases. Some players might still be focusing on “defensive organization” while others are already pressing together." 

I was thinking about this - it would make sense to have the defenders holding their structure and have more forward players pressing. Can one set it up like this in FM?

- Suggestion that the Positioning and Concentration attributes in FM would be important for effective closing down tactics: 
"Preparation is an important aspect of both counterpressing and pressing. In order to properly pressure the ball, the players must be positioned in the correct areas before the ball is lost. It requires concentration as well as the ability to quickly switch mentality from attack to defense".

- Regarding width and counterattacking: "What is important is relative width to the defense – an offensive team only needs to be wide enough to stretch the defense. Anything beyond that could have adverse effects depending on the team’s strategy."

Summary

So these are my takeouts:

- If you're the superior/more skilful side it's good to use higher closing down levels, and if you're the weaker/less skilful it's good to use lower closing down levels.

- Pressing tactics not good if playing with Defensive mentality and high team Structure.

- Need for a high defensive line with pressing tactics.

- Defenders with Quickness and Agility required for the high backline needed with pressing tactics.

- Importance of Sweeper Keeper with pressing tactics (sorry, Joe Hart).

- Important for all players in team to be able to press, unless you're Real Madrid.

- Don't play too wide.

- Work Rate, Stamina, Positioning, Concentration are important player attributes for effective pressing.

My Tactics

With this new information, this is how I think I will adjust my closing down levels:

- My balanced 4-2-3-1 - While playing in League One and am a dominant team, I should probably use higher closing down levels. When I get promoted and become a comparatively weaker side, I should use less closing down.

- My defensive 4-1-2-3 - When using a Defensive mentality, I should use lower closing down levels. If I decide to use this formation with a Counterattack mentality, then possibly could use a higher closing down level, but I would be losing defensive structure.

- My attacking 4-4-2 - Since this is a very high-tempo attacking formation for when chasing games, I think it should have a higher closing down level, taking more risks to increase the chance of reward.

[Robson 07]

Hey, great thread which throws up some interesting points.  I really like the effort you clearly put into your 2nd post @Ron Wandle that's taken some time I suspect.  Although its essentially one topic its hard to respond as you've picked up so many different facets.  I did note that you talk about closing more/less as you attack/defend,  Its worth remembering the tactic creator does some of that for you automatically as you change team mentality e.g.  Attacking team mentality comes with more closing down by default.

I think the game works with tactics set up to press and tactics which stand off a bit more.  As has been noted, one isn't necessarily better than the other.  My advice for what its worth is to go down one road and stick to it.  I think if you change formations, press/don't press, and trying play too reactively that may bring its own problems.  Particular when you consider there's more to football than pressing which is just one strategy within a wider tactical setup.  In other you words, I try to not make things too complicated.

[ianscousemac]

1 hour ago, Ron Wandle said:

I've been reading some real football articles on pressing/closing down. I've selected some parts from a couple of articles which I feel provide some insight that can be transferred to the FM game.

Article 1: "Analysis: How a high-pressing game works in football" (Sportskeeda/ZainMahmood: https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/analysis-how-high-pressing-game-works-football)

- Describes how high pressing/closing down tactics have been used by possession-hungry sides like Barcelona, Spain, Roma and Bayern Munich under Pep Guardiola, as well as sides a bit more direct with the ball, such as Chile, Madrid and Borussia Dortmund.

- Importance of Work Rate across the team for pressing: 

"The formation requires all 11 players to press, and only at top sides like Real Madrid can a compromise of one player’s lack of defensive work-rate be reached."

- Need for high-defensive backline with pressing tactics:

"If the defence stays deep and the forwards press forward, then there is a lot of space in the middle of the park and all the keeper needs to do is knock the ball over the first line of pressure."

- Need for defenders with Quickness and maybe Agility with the high line: "To stop this, the centrebacks need to be pacy and good on the ball so that they can run on the turn"

- Sweeper Keeper: "The keeper needs to be quick and good on the ball to advance forward and sweep up any loose balls (Manuel Neuer and Hugo Lloris are brilliant in this regard)."

- Need for high Stamina with high closing down tactics: "The biggest problem in this system. It takes a lot of running and energy to sustain this pressing for 90 minute".

- Need for all players in team to work together with high closing down tactics: "Disjointed Pressing: If one player neglects his defensive responsibilities, it could be catastrophic for the entire system."

- Don't press against more skilful teams: "A good team, which can keep the ball and stretch the opposition, can stand up to a high pressing system. The can keep the opposition moving and tire them out before striking"

Article 2: "Pressing, Counterpressing and Counterattacking" (martiperarnau/Adin Osmanbasic: https://www.martiperarnau.com/pressing-counterpressing-and-counterattacking/)

- Interesting discussion of when Mourinho's Inter Milan played Barcelona. He didn't want his players to have the ball: 

"Mourinho’s men immediately rid themselves of the ball in transition in order to avoid any sort of disorganization which would stem from being counterpressed or losing the ball after a counterattack. Mourinho said after the game that he didn’t want his side to have the ball".

So in FM terms, it could be said that Mourinho was using a Defensive mentality, with a high level of team Structure, and with a low level of Closing Down.

- Use of Closing Down tactics with high defensive line: "If a team played with a high defensive line but didn’t pressure the ball they would concede a lot of goals because of allowing long passes into the space behind the defenders".

- "If a team which played very horizontally compact didn’t pressure the ball they would have a very hard time defending because every switch of the ball would expose the underloaded far side". I don't quite get this.

- "The ball is much easier to take from an opponent who controls it poorly". This suggests that a more skilful team should press a less skilful team, which is maybe why Guardiola's Barcelona did it, as well as other top sides.

- "Pressing is not always “collective” either, the collective positional structure is made up of individual players in specific positions and specific phases. Some players might still be focusing on “defensive organization” while others are already pressing together." 

I was thinking about this - it would make sense to have the defenders holding their structure and have more forward players pressing. Can one set it up like this in FM?

- Suggestion that the Positioning and Concentration attributes in FM would be important for effective closing down tactics: 
"Preparation is an important aspect of both counterpressing and pressing. In order to properly pressure the ball, the players must be positioned in the correct areas before the ball is lost. It requires concentration as well as the ability to quickly switch mentality from attack to defense".

- Regarding width and counterattacking: "What is important is relative width to the defense – an offensive team only needs to be wide enough to stretch the defense. Anything beyond that could have adverse effects depending on the team’s strategy."

Summary

So these are my takeouts:

- If you're the superior/more skilful side it's good to use higher closing down levels, and if you're the weaker/less skilful it's good to use lower closing down levels.

- Pressing tactics not good if playing with Defensive mentality and high team Structure.

- Need for a high defensive line with pressing tactics.

- Defenders with Quickness and Agility required for the high backline needed with pressing tactics.

- Importance of Sweeper Keeper with pressing tactics (sorry, Joe Hart).

- Important for all players in team to be able to press, unless you're Real Madrid.

- Don't play too wide.

- Work Rate, Stamina, Positioning, Concentration are important player attributes for effective pressing.

My Tactics

With this new information, this is how I think I will adjust my closing down levels:

- My balanced 4-2-3-1 - While playing in League One and am a dominant team, I should probably use higher closing down levels. When I get promoted and become a comparatively weaker side, I should use less closing down.

- My defensive 4-1-2-3 - When using a Defensive mentality, I should use lower closing down levels. If I decide to use this formation with a Counterattack mentality, then possibly could use a higher closing down level, but I would be losing defensive structure.

- My attacking 4-4-2 - Since this is a very high-tempo attacking formation for when chasing games, I think it should have a higher closing down level, taking more risks to increase the chance of reward.

Cracking read this