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Portugal - Spain, 19BST

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24 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

Ronaldo is amazing and saved Portugal tonight obviously. And I'd never expect him to put a defensive shift in but that Spain 3rd goal is completly not on. Hatrrick or not he deserves critisism for that. Obviously the free kick brushes over it but if he had closed down some what more there, then he could have been celebrating a late winner from a free kick not an equaliser.

Finally someone gets it.

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5 minutes ago, Boltman said:

...I love watching him play, but it's frustrating that he refuses to do simple things even if they require no extra effort. He's an oustanding player who deserves the plaudits he receives, but if he simply showed a willingness to even contemplate doing the bare minimum of defensive work then he'd unquestionably deserve to be talked about as GOAT. The contempt for that side of the game, as brilliant as he is in so many other ways, spoils that.

It requires a lot of effort to do defensive work which is why some of the best attacking players shun it. He is defying his body at the moment and if he started chasing the rightback down a channel then he would probably score less goals and be less of a threat upfront.

The best attacking players around do very little defensive work

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Guedes and Bernardo silva really need to step up if Portugal are to do well this tournament. They are good players but very poor tonight and offered little help for Ronaldo.

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Just now, Icondacarver said:

It requires a lot of effort to do defensive work which is why some of the best attacking players shun it. He is defying his body at the moment and if he started chasing the rightback down a channel then he would probably score less goals and be less of a threat upfront.

The best attacking players around do very little defensive work

Granted, however, he sometimes takes it to extremes, to the point where you wonder why he'll sprint 80 yards on a counter, but wont move 2 yards to nuisance an opposition player.

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11 minutes ago, Boltman said:

Granted, however, he sometimes takes it to extremes, to the point where you wonder why he'll sprint 80 yards on a counter, but wont move 2 yards to nuisance an opposition player.

If it was isco to david silva he would have done it but he didn't expect nacho to do what he did and be such an attacking threat.

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44 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

Ronaldo is amazing and saved Portugal tonight obviously. And I'd never expect him to put a defensive shift in but that Spain 3rd goal is completly not on. Hatrrick or not he deserves critisism for that. Obviously the free kick brushes over it but if he had closed down some what more there, then he could have been celebrating a late winner from a free kick not an equaliser.

Not really because if he had closed down and prevented the Spain goal then everything that happened afterwards would be different to what actually happened. 

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1 hour ago, Boltman said:

You'd rather he stood motionless, a few yards away from a completely unmarked fullback, inside his own half, showing no interest in picking him up, simply because you have other more defensively focussed players in the team?

Ok then.

It's not like it's one isolated event, it's a career-long pattern. You build the team around the guy, so it's fair enough to give clear roles and structures to allow him freedom to do his thing, but there's no excuse whatsoever for sheer laziness and diva behaviour, which is what it is with CR. There was no reason at all for him not to pick up free opposition players within a few yards of himself. That's just sheer contempt and indifference. Not a good look no matter how talented you are.

If you have someone as talented as Ronaldo then you have him stand around/making offensive runs between their centerback and rightback. Messi does it, Ronaldo (Brazil) did it. Neymar does it. It looks bad looking at it individually but it's 100% more efficient that having someone like Rooney/Tevez/Suarez/Firmino running around like crazy. You have your support players doing that, not your star players, because come the 90th minute you want them with enough energy to make the difference.  

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48 minutes ago, Sid1984 said:

Guedes and Bernardo silva really need to step up if Portugal are to do well this tournament. They are good players but very poor tonight and offered little help for Ronaldo.

It wasn't Bernardo's best ever performance (although I thought he was much better at defending and shutting down a flank than I ever expected) but it was immensely better than Guedes. Guedes on paper looked a great choice for this match, to hit Spain at pace on the counter. But he just seemed nervous and completely overawed by the occasion. Shouldn't have lasted as long on the pitch as he did. 

As for Ronaldo not tracking back etc, amusingly I think it's the exact same thing as with Messi, exact same problem almost. They are amazing going forward, but they do not defend, sometimes give up pressing completely and go around at a farcical walking pace, and this creates quite a lot of tactical constraints. The difference is under Fernando Santos we've built a good system (or set of systems) to work around this issue and get the best out of our star player, whilst it looks like Argentina are still wandering about looking for one. Still, going forward, credit where it's due, I might not be a huge fan of the player but Ronaldo was amazing for us tonight every time we had the ball, and completely worth the tactical problems he poses. I hope he's on the same form as Euro 2016 when he was utterly amazing as well. 

Edited by noikeee

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Ronaldo put in a good performance without a shadow of a doubt. He is a man for the big occasion. However I get what people are saying, him and Carvalho gave the ball away between them and he just stood there like a petulant child instead of moving 3 feet to close down the ball. Pretty sure Spain scored within about 60 seconds of that without Portugal regaining possession.

Also, Isco was sensational, best player on the pitch by an absolute mile.

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Oh my god Ronaldo is quite possibly the sexiest and most brilliant man ever lived. 

I just want to splash the dude in oil and rub up against him. 

What a ****ing God. 

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4 minutes ago, given1legend said:

 

Also, Isco was sensational, best player on the pitch by an absolute mile.

Isco was the maybe the best Spanish player tonight.

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17 minutes ago, mikejess92 said:

If you have someone as talented as Ronaldo then you have him stand around/making offensive runs between their centerback and rightback. Messi does it, Ronaldo (Brazil) did it. Neymar does it. It looks bad looking at it individually but it's 100% more efficient that having someone like Rooney/Tevez/Suarez/Firmino running around like crazy. You have your support players doing that, not your star players, because come the 90th minute you want them with enough energy to make the difference.  

I think people are missing the point here. Nobody should be asking Ronaldo develop a defensive forward game. That would be stupid BUT if you lose the ball in your own half and you are the closest player to the opposition and then you just stand there doing nothing but flapping your arms as they walk it past you and start a dangerous attack and score.... well. Nobodies asking him to be Dirk Kujt here. 

BTW I thought Ronaldo was great tonight. I just also think what he did for the 3rd was appalling for this level of football and he deserves critisism for that moment. 

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5 minutes ago, Bliss Seeker said:

Oh my god Ronaldo is quite possibly the sexiest and most brilliant man ever lived. 

I just want to splash the dude in oil and rub up against him. 

What a ****ing God. 

Bliss Just a kebab away from bed, or an oil bath with Ronaldo, whichever comes first.

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As long as CR7 scores hat-tricks and basically carries a mediocre, inconsistent and timid side, does it really matter he's not defending?!

 

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Ronaldo's performance was one of the all time great individual performances in a world cup match.

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For the 3000th time, it was his body language and the way he'll happily throw a strop at a teammate for something that wasn't even his mistake.

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5 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

For the 3000th time, it was his body language and the way he'll happily throw a strop at a teammate for something that wasn't even his mistake.

His body language is very positive and he helps his teammates a lot even though he gets much less in return. He is a true leader who inspires the team. I have no idea what you are on about.

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6 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

For the 3000th time, it was his body language and the way he'll happily throw a strop at a teammate for something that wasn't even his mistake.

Never knew body language had such a dextrimental effect on the outcome of the match. Also words to a teammate, fearsome stuff.

 

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Disappointed with Portugal's defending. Spain was always going to have the ball, but the pressing didn't work. Bernardo Silva and Rúben Fernandes couldn't attack or defend. Guedes didn't properly press Busquets either.

The plan failed but Ronaldo saved the point. I expect better for the next matches.

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To be fair to Ronaldo, I think he was expecting a little more from the other 10 men on his team. I mean he almost single handedly stopped a team that look like they'll have the best chance of winning the tournament.

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3 hours ago, Wigmore said:

I said to my housemate as he lined that free kick up that there was no way in the world that he wouldn’t score it, just wasn’t feasible in my mind that it’d go anywhere but in the net.

Unfortunately I did the exact opposite. Went on about how he's actually pretty **** at free-kicks and rarely scored them and said absolutely no way it was going in....

egg_on_your_face_by_gailweiss-d536n7e.jp

 

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57 minutes ago, sc91 said:

Never knew body language had such a dextrimental effect on the outcome of the match. Also words to a teammate, fearsome stuff.

 

Nor the fact that Portugal still had half a dozen opportunities to prevent the goal after that.

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25 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Nor the fact that Portugal still had half a dozen opportunities to prevent the goal after that.

Indeed, but nope, all the fault of the guy who banged in a hattrick and set up two glorious chances whilst breaking up play and generally dragging a poor Portugal side to a draw with Spain.

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43 minutes ago, G-Man11 said:

Unfortunately I did the exact opposite. Went on about how he's actually pretty **** at free-kicks and rarely scored them and said absolutely no way it was going in....

egg_on_your_face_by_gailweiss-d536n7e.jp

 

 

Me and my mates were also talking about that the most reasonable thing would be to let Guerreiro to take it :D 

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I'm not sure which Ronaldo Divinity and Astafjevs (ones I remember) saw, apart from the goals he was still Portugal's best player. In the first half he was winning lots of headers from long punts upfield, won free kicks when isolated, and played in teammates on the counter who were better placed which led to fluffed chances (although Guedes' first wasn't really that bad imo)

But on the other hand, there is a world of difference between asking him to be Tevez or Rooney and simply making a bit of effort if you happen to lose the ball in midfield, or not standing in a strop when there's a loose ball after your teammate's messed up a great chance. If you were a good penalty taker as a defender you wouldn't leave a rebound well alone because attacking in open play isn't your job.

Edited by The_jagster

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Great match last night! :) Hopefully this is just the beginning of an amazing tournament. Wonderful performance also by Ronaldo of course, can't believe some folks here are still trying to criticise him after that match :D. Probably fuelled by a huge huge dislike towards the guy. Almost solely manages to give Portugal a point against arguably the best team on this tournament.

Portugal started really well but Spain took over and managed to show some nice football but definitely not as good as they can imo. At Portugal's side I also felt William again played a very good match, such an underestimated player. Guedes as already mentioned should have been taken off earlier, gave a bit the impression he was nervous. I think Santos also mainly chose him due to the fact that he plays in Spain so knows a lot of the Spanish players. Next match André Silva will probably start. 

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10 hours ago, Boltman said:

I think he's fantastic. Great entertainer, brilliant footballer, always look forward to watching him even if he is a self-absorbed narcissist. I'm certainly not a 'hater' whatever that is.

The only reason I brought up the GOAT thread is because the 3rd Spain goal highlighted what I said about him in there, i.e, I believe he's too tactically lazy and disinterested in doing any defensive work at all to be considered a complete player and GOAT.

Messi is worse for it than Ronaldo. He chucked it against Roma this season.

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18 minutes ago, Cedrik said:

 Wonderful performance also by Ronaldo of course, can't believe some folks here are still trying to criticise him after that match :D. Probably fuelled by a huge huge dislike towards the guy. Almost solely manages to give Portugal a point

Hate is blind. It was one of the all time great World Cup individual performance in a match. Maybe the best ever.

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And amongst all that - what a goal by Nacho. Great technique and will be one of the goals of the tournament. Four games today :cool:

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Yeh poor Nacho. It was possibly one of the best times volleys I’ve ever seen. Definitely one of the sexiest goals I’ve ever seen.

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What's the record for most goals scored in a WC game from footballers playing for clubs from one city?

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Went for the obvious choice of Hungary-El Salvador 10-1 at the 1982 World Cup and only two of the goalscorers didn't play for a Budapest based club. That's 7 goals (one of the said players scored a double). 

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I thought Ronaldo was fantastic last night and I think he's a right selfish, egotistical and pompous ****. Great match.

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Wonderful game last night, with some brilliant goals. Thoroughly enjoyed watching it. :)

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Costa took on 3 defenders and buried it in the bottom corner and no cares because it was only the 3rd best goal in the match. Was great fun to sit and watch. 

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Instant WC classic this, fantastic match. Despite the draw, Spain were impressive. Has put them firmly in the top favourites camp again after their manager situation. 

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Welp here we go with the gushing over Ronaldo. He's no Puskas.

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1 hour ago, Bliss Seeker said:

:)

 

 

That would be me and I'm 25.

He's like a superhero ffs. 

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3 minutes ago, JDownie said:

That would be me and I'm 25.

He's like a superhero ffs. 

Tell me about it, I'd be all over him a like a cheap wetsuit. 

And he knows it :cool:

 

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4 hours ago, Sid1984 said:

Hate is blind. It was one of the all time great World Cup individual performance in a match. Maybe the best ever.

No. Just, no.

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3 hours ago, grff said:

No. Just, no.

It was a perfect performance, he was unplayable. I can’t remember any WC performance better in a match.

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22 minutes ago, Sid1984 said:

It was a perfect performance, he was unplayable. I can’t remember any WC performance better in a match.

Then you've either not watched many WC matches or you've got a really **** memory :D

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6 minutes ago, grff said:

Then you've either not watched many WC matches or you've got a really **** memory :D

Name one performance in a single WC match that was clearly better than ronaldos yesterday.

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