Hard Brexit Strategy?

[Joey Numbaz]

So I am getting the hard Brexit. EU players need work permits, current players grandfathered.

Does it make sense strategy wise, to offer contract extensions to any foreigners I want to keep who aren't yet playing internationally? I've built my youth system with a lot of EU foreigners, for example. Many are 16-18 and years away from playing for a national team.

So when it comes time to extend their contracts in a couple of years, they likely won't get a permit. But if I get the grandfathered players 5 years in England they should gain the nationality, right?

It's November 27, 2019 right now, rules go into effect June 24, 2020, so I have a little time to figure it out. I tried to search the forum, but didn't find anything about contract strategy for existing foreigners and future extensions with a hard Brexit.

Thanks for any help.

[Joey Numbaz]

Or is it a lifetime exception for the grandfathered players? I didn't think of that. Please say yes someone.

[zlatanera]

It's not a lifetime extension no - its really hurt me in the Championship when I can't renew the contract of a key player because they're not in their national team.

So yes, if you add extensions in new contracts which are signed before June 24 2020 it would be a good idea. Overpay if you have to, get at least the maximum (5 years) plus max. extension (3 years). Although tbh if your 18 year olds aren't in their national teams after 5 years they're probably not going to be that great, unless perhaps they're Brazilian or Spanish (two teams that seem to have an overabundance of talent).

[Joey Numbaz]

Thanks a bunch! I wish the game was more clear about how this works in it's explanations. Really appreciate you taking the time to reply.

[Joey Numbaz]

And I forgot about the option years, great call there.

[Joey Numbaz]

I think the main strategy shift, is that I won't be able to develop foreign youth in my system. I coach Everton, expanded the stadium and there is plenty of money to buy a few guys to plug holes in the first team.

But they'll have to be pretty developed by the time I can buy them. Can't really turn Everton into Ajax or Barcelona the same, other than what I get by default from the Academy. No one in England wants to sell any 15-17 year olds worth buying unless they are getting a ton of money.

[jc577]

I was given the hard version of brexit too, and weirdly enough, I signed two players who weren’t given work permits, yet I was still able to play them in the league, and the usual ‘wp’ status in red didn’t appear by their names - is this a bug or am I missing something?

[Joey Numbaz]

Interesting. I could live with that bug :-)

Another possible bug that messes with my strategy:

Morgan Schneiderlin - 4187 days in England (1825 needed to gain nationality) - Awaiting paperwork. I know the big machine of government can be slow at times, but 6 and a half YEARS for the paperwork and it's still not ready?

Gylfi Sigurõsson - 3350 days in England, 4 years and 2 months so far still waiting for the paperwork.

Has anyone else seen this? Does it make sense to wait it out. Now that Brexit is coming, will they actually get the paperwork?

[zlatanera]

1 hour ago, Joey Numbaz said:

Interesting. I could live with that bug :-)

Another possible bug that messes with my strategy:

Morgan Schneiderlin - 4187 days in England (1825 needed to gain nationality) - Awaiting paperwork. I know the big machine of government can be slow at times, but 6 and a half YEARS for the paperwork and it's still not ready?

Gylfi Sigurõsson - 3350 days in England, 4 years and 2 months so far still waiting for the paperwork.

Has anyone else seen this? Does it make sense to wait it out. Now that Brexit is coming, will they actually get the paperwork?

I'm guessing they weren't arsed about it whilst Britain was still in the EU as they'd count as EU (I know Iceland isn't technically EU but its linked enough that I believe Icelandic players don't need work permits), but now they're trying to get it in order to help out their clubs. 

[Joey Numbaz]

Ah, so before it didn't even say awaiting paperwork possibly? That would make sense.

[Snorks]

Yep, they would have applied when they realised they needed to - so paperwork is in the bureaucratic system.

[Joey Numbaz]

And they both just received British citizenship. Pretty cool that the game handles all of that for you when it's needed.

[crusadertsar]

Is there a way to get a hard brexit? Like a modded database? I would love to try this challenge but unfortunately in all my saves it's been soft brexits

[Joey Numbaz]

 You should just do it yourself. If no one else has to it’s an even bigger challenge! 

[Joey Numbaz]

OK so the time has come ... it's May 30, 2020 and hard Brexit is rapidly approaching.

Just want to look out for unforeseen issues. Also if anyone has had any luck with making it work.

I have a ton of good foreign youth players. We won the EUFA Youth League the last two years. Won the Under 18 Premier League two years running too. Our U23's won their league as well. I am stocked with talent all over the youth program.

I have too many to ever play them all, but I like to keep the best ones in house and not loan them out so they learn my system and I control their development.

So I assume I am going to have to get into the loan game now. Should I sign as many of the good ones (3.5 start potential potential plus?) long term with extensions and just loan them out/sell them once I realize they won't be first teamers while keeping the good ones?

Do I keep signing any other foreign kids I can find in the next 3 weeks? How do managers who like to build with youth make this work?

Will I have issues loaning these guys out once Brexit hits? I have signed most of the good ones already to contracts that will keep them in the UK long enough to gain citizenship at least. But I am not against going back a few days and re-simming if that's a bad idea.

[Fritz13]

I didn’t have any issues loaning out players who didn’t get their work permits.

If I had a new save I might try keeping any new players without WPs at the club for the 5 years rather than loaning them out which was what I did - I guess they will get the tutoring and learn PPMs etc but they won’t get game time unless it’s from friendlies.

[Joey Numbaz]

15 hours ago, Fritz13 said:

I might try keeping any new players without WPs at the club for the 5 years rather than loaning them out

Yeah, I guess I got lucky in that respect since I don't really loan anyone out unless they aren't good enough to play regularly for my U23s or U18s.

I get the real prospects game time if they are good enough, I'll play them as subs, let them start less important games, etc. I also think that all of the competitive U18/U23 cups, the EUFA youth league if you make the Champions League for your U19s, etc. have some competitive value. Maybe not like starting in the Championship, but I don't think they are zeros either. I've heard a few well respected posters here (Cleon especially IIRC) say they never loan their best prospects out. They keep them and find ways to get them game time.

[Fritz13]

12 hours ago, Joey Numbaz said:

Yeah, I guess I got lucky in that respect since I don't really loan anyone out unless they aren't good enough to play regularly for my U23s or U18s.

I get the real prospects game time if they are good enough, I'll play them as subs, let them start less important games, etc. I also think that all of the competitive U18/U23 cups, the EUFA youth league if you make the Champions League for your U19s, etc. have some competitive value. Maybe not like starting in the Championship, but I don't think they are zeros either. I've heard a few well respected posters here (Cleon especially IIRC) say they never loan their best prospects out. They keep them and find ways to get them game time.

Are they eligible for U23s if they don’t have a WP?

[Joey Numbaz]

No, but everyone who was under contract when England leaves the EU is grandfathered. So it is only an issue for new signings.

[Joey Numbaz]

On 15/06/2018 at 14:01, zlatanera said:

It's not a lifetime extension no - its really hurt me in the Championship when I can't renew the contract of a key player because they're not in their national team.

Interesting in the Premier League I've seen no sign of it not being a lifetime exemption. I'm over a year in, and youth players who I've extended have not had to receive Work Permits. Foreign players from other Premier League teams who I scout to 100% don't have anything listed related to whether or not they qualify for a Work Permit.

Maybe this is a Championship vs. Premier League thing? I've seen nothing yet that shows any sign of the exemption being anything but lifetime.

[zlatanera]

4 minutes ago, Joey Numbaz said:

Interesting in the Premier League I've seen no sign of it not being a lifetime exemption. I'm over a year in, and youth players who I've extended have not had to receive Work Permits. Foreign players from other Premier League teams who I scout to 100% don't have anything listed related to whether or not they qualify for a Work Permit.

Maybe this is a Championship vs. Premier League thing? But I've seen nothing yet that shows any sign of the exemption not being lifetime.

Perhaps. Reputation could play a part as well? If you're at a PL club you're automatically going to have a higher rep than Papy Djiloboji after spending 3 seasons in mid-table Championship side Sunderland.

[Joey Numbaz]

Maybe, but just pulling one example, I've got a kid who has only been capped at the U19 level, not even U21. His reputation is still the silver (youth) stars, 3.5 stars. I signed him from Portugal for £300K in August of 2019. Hard Brexit kicked in June 24, 2020.

January 21, 2021 at the age of 18, he signed an extension. No new Work Permit was required.

Or just a random French/Algerian kid found in the scouting center. He plays for Arsenal. Is on loan in Denmark. He's 20. Reputation is 4 silver/youth stars. He's valued at £3.9 million. No caps. Arsenal signed him back in June 2019 for £850K. So like my guy, he didn't trigger anything based on high value/transfer price, playing as a regular in a top 6 league, etc. He's only earned 406 days toward English citizenship in 2+ years. He spent his first year w/Arsenal loaned to a League One squad. Year two he spent in Russia, and now he's in Denmark.

He's 100% scouted and no mention of Work Permit likelihood under Transfer Interest in his scouting report - which means there is no issue if the player is 100% scouted.

I think I'm going forward with the assumption that, at least for the Premier League, anyone who was grandfathered in has either a lifetime Work Permit exemption, or at least an extension until they cease being under English control. Maybe once they leave English control (not just a loan, but signing with say a French club), they'd need a Work Permit to come back.

This has massive implications for Hard Brexits. As in not signing every foreign player in your system to extensions before the deadline for one.

It would also be nice if the game explained this in clearer terms as to when the exemption ends, if it does at all, or clearly stating it's a lifetime exemption, as opposed to just an exemption.