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Pilgrimage 4231 and 451 IF 4141 4411 442DM Flat 442 Knap FM 18

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FM 18.3.3

Tested with MU in FMT no OIs.

4231

¬FM18.3.3KnapPILGRIMAGE34231FMUP102.fmf

451

¬FM18.3.3KnapPILGRIMAGE451MUP101.fmf

4141

¬FM18.3.3KnapPILGRIMAGE4141MUP100.fmf

4411

¬FM18.3.3KnapPILGRIMAGE4411MUP100.fmf

442DM

¬FM18.3.3KnapPILGRIMAGE442DMMUP100.fmf

FLAT 442 - For a more defensive tactic use a BWM D instead of CM Au

¬FM18.3.3KnapPILGRIMAGEFLAT442MUP101.fmf

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Screenshot (252).png

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901165396_Screenshot(263).thumb.png.d296d8e3d84f00bd9c0e83a93359624d.png

Edited by knap

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Hey knap, if I change the shape of 451 to Structured, will it become close to your ARGUS tactic?

I am guessing, 451 can be a good option as AWAY tactic.

4231 as Home

A SUS for protecting lead

And ofcourse, your WoF 2323 for when I need to score essentially.

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If you check 442 thread you can also try game management with counter.

The longer tactic testing does indicate that the Structured ARGUS has the edge with an under dog.

Using tactic sets should give an advantage over straight P&P.

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14 hours ago, knap said:

If you check 442 thread you can also try game management with counter.

The longer tactic testing does indicate that the Structured ARGUS has the edge with an under dog.

Using tactic sets should give an advantage over straight P&P.

Which 442 thread? Volante or MM? What do you mean by tactic sets? Thanks. 

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Last pot in MIDSOMER 442.

The TC is designed around the use of tactic sets.

Contain SUS tactic

Counter

Control

Attacking

Overload get a goal, although I don't find this useful but WOF 2323 tactic would be an option.

This gives you the option of Game Management.

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6 hours ago, knap said:

Last pot in MIDSOMER 442.

The TC is designed around the use of tactic sets.

Contain SUS tactic

Counter

Control

Attacking

Overload get a goal, although I don't find this useful but WOF 2323 tactic would be an option.

This gives you the option of Game Management.

Are you referring to the below;

 

With MU I have played CL Finals using BLACK NIGHT 451 and RAW SIENNA 4231 and 424 and won them all.

I have not found counter mentality to work that well this year as P&P.

When moving away from P&P then a more adaptive approach can be used by game managing. I have often used a full SUS for hard away games. There is no need to use a full SUS but maybe just limit FB runs.

Perhaps the ideal away set up is Highly Structured counter tactic.

Volante Anchor is a White Europe tweak and I've not had good test results, so using Anchor or Counter mentality is a more an approach in practice than testing.

3 at back is now a goto defensive formation and there is a flat back 5 MIDSOMER tactic, the other defensive formations that should work are 4141 or 451/41221

Maybe a 451 Highly Structured counter tactic would be best for hard away games.

 


 

 

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2 hours ago, knap said:

Last post of this thread

Sorry to be a pain in the arse but struggling to see the post you are referring to. Can you link to it. Apologies but interested to see it. Thanks. 

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Accomplished the impossible with this tactic. Been using Touch exclusively using Instant result but decided to try something different so I started a new save in the full version with Sampdoria using this tactic. Switched back & forth from Attacking to Counter mentality during match play, depending on the situation.

Won the Scudetto in the first season. Unbelievable.

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1 hour ago, knap said:

Accomplished the impossible with this tactic. Been using Touch exclusively using Instant result but decided to try something different so I started a new save in the full version with Sampdoria using this tactic. Switched back & forth from Attacking to Counter mentality during match play, depending on the situation.

Won the Scudetto in the first season. Unbelievable.

Ok thanks. Just out of interest what tactic have you done that has the least amount of TIs or PIs?

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Neither do I. Was just interested. Thanks for the help. 

Last query- do your other tactics react well to mentality changes by going to counter and control etc?

Edited by loisvale

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 When you are an underdog away then using counter may be the best option. If 2-0 up why not try to control game. In theory the TC gives these options without the need to re invent a tactic. In the right circumstances counter or control should work rather than attacking.

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Knap which gets the most goals out of the front 3 specifically these or Blue Matter 4213?

I'm wondering which is best for Liverpool because I'd like to have Salah and Mane scoring a lot too.

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BLUE MATTER 433 scored 147 wit Arsenal WOF 2323 is also high scoring  but weaker defensively and BLUE MATTER 4213 should be high scoring. The 451 or 4231 will not touch 3 up front for scoring. BLUE MATTER 433 last year scored 177 with Barcelona

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Hey knap, in 451 the IFs are without any PIs. Whereas, in 4231, there are PIs for IF(a) as well as IF(s). Is it meant to be like that?

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1st game with Fulham using full version, joined them in November. Using 451. Very good attacking play, not fluid yet. 

Screenshot (1).png

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Hey knap, can you please share a 451 tactic based on ARGUS as well. 

 

That would be perfect Away tactic. Thanks a lot for your excellent work. 

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Hi Knap can you tell your best tactics far now for 18.3.3 patch? i am between pilgrimage 4231 , 451 and bue matter 343 :/ 

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Overview of Tactic List from testing                                  TOTAL                       SUB TOP    UNDERDOG

ARGUS FM 18.2.2       P102                                                    P385                          P206        P179  

PILGRIMAGE FM 18.3.3 LPOOL P104                                  P380                            P226       P154

 

WOF FM 18.3.3  P101  Flexible                                              P381                           P213          P168

WOF FM 18.3.3 LPOOL P100 ALL CUPS                                P365                          P196          P169

PILGRIMAGE Fluid  LPOOL P101                                           P367                          P201           P166

PILGRIMAGE FM 18.2 P105                                                   P357                          P218           P139

ARGUS VOL 4 FM18.3.3  Structured  P101 ALL CUPS       P363                          P220           P143

BLUE MATTER    FM 18.3.3 P105                                         P356                           P207           P149

GOODBYE FM 18.3 VOL 7 Very Fluid                                  P349                           P208          P141

GOODBYE 3421                                                                     P324                          P205         P119

MIDSOMER 442 P103 (FLAT TEST)                                      P349                          P199         P150

MIDSOMER 442 VOL MEZ                                                    P342                          P196         P146 

WOF 2323    FM 18   P104                                                    P335                          P187         P148

BLUE MATTER FM 18.3 VOL 4 P102     352                       P335                           P206         P129

ARGUS 3430                                                                          P331                          P192         P139

ASH FM 18.3 P104                Highly Structured                P326                            P190         P136

VOLANTE BWM FM 18.3 P101                                           P326                            P191         P135

WOF 3412                                                                            P325                             P198         P127

WOF 2233 P102HS         FM 18.2                                      P311                             P194         P117

BLUE MATTER VOL 4 P100 4123 FM 18.2.1                  P310                             P179         -P131

MMVOLANTEANCHOR            442                                   P302                            P165           P127

These are considered to be all 5 Star tactics. For a Top Team the BLUE MATTER 4213 may be a good choice as I won PL with both MU and MC.

This information from omrgul adds another level

Till now having extensively used ARGUS tactics in my saves with a variety of teams, I can safely say, you don't need to even look for any other tactic this year.

The topper in Mr. L's table (ARGUS 18.2.2 P102), anyone can use in any situation with any team. You are bound to overachieve. Since I never use Holiday or Instant Result, meaning that I watch and manage each game in Highlights mode, I can safely say that this front 3 role combination is the best to get most out of your strikers (AF - P - AF e.g. Hazard - Morata - Willian, OR Martial - Lukaku - Rashford, and even Alioski - Antonsson - Roofe in my Leeds' save).  Style of attacking play is dependent on crosses mostly, but once become Fluid, is fun to watch and you never get the Arcade-like feeling some people are associating with these 3 up-top tactics). My suggestion would be to use provider (more creative type) of forwards in the wide AF roles. And I use to manually set specific man-marking PI for my Poacher, that way let's say Morata used to closely mark one of opposition's midfield player, and thus negating the outnumbering of 3 midfield formations. You can simply take one player out of the picture. The AI doesn't even consider passing to that player, if specifically marked. I also use this technique in a Mourinho-esqe way at the wings e.g. I would man mark Salah and Griezman with Azpilicueta or Zouma when playing against Liverpool or Atletico. To avoid overburdening yourself, just do it against really top players e.g. CA ~ 180s (your Neymars, your Griezmans, your Salahs etc. but leave Messi, Ronaldo plus anyone with Sane's pace alone, since they will make a fool out of your man-marker).

 

Then comes the ARGUS 18.3.3 version, which I believe is even better and my personal favorite. Knap added a very effective "Close Down More" TI in this one, which I found especially helpful in initiating quick counterattacks from middle of the park by winning the ball and distributing quickly to one of AFs, who can launch deadly low cross to your Poacher (who would also be doing a darting run from the back since he was man-marking opposition's midfield player, remember Di Maria, Ronaldo, and Benzema counterattacking under Mourinho anyone???). Also, close down more helps in safeguarding your wings better against those crosses from hell. I have observed that when your WB is unable to track the winger, the Central Defender is somehow neglecting to close down immediately to stop the cross (this applies when the closing down is set to Sometimes). But with Close Down More in this version, they were much more responsive. I had Goldson, Pontus, and Cunningham with Nick Pope in goal keeping clean sheets in first season in Premier league, which I won in the very first season by the way.

 

The VOL4 version with IWBs give you a different approach to Attack (since IWBs are hardcoded to Cross Less, so the Attacking play is even more pleasing to the eye). But I personally don't use it that much, since with Structured shape, the Attack duty of IWBs will mean, they are definitely meant to Attack, so the Defense suffers a little from what I have observed. WBs on Support duty with Structured in the 18.2.2 and 18.3.3 versions safeguard your wings much better.

 

So to summarize, this is my firm tactical philosophy now (maybe some of you can benefit from it as well);

- You don't need to look into any other thread to play and succeed this year's FM. Just use ARGUS 18.2.2 P102 for any team, any situation. It will defend well, it will score loads. If your team isn't scoring, just make sure you have 20% Attacking Movement match preparation training. And also more importantly don't forget to give Fergie's hairdryer treatment at halftime, they will respond well.

- Come the tough Away games, the Cup Finals, the Away Europeon nights, you can set BWM (s) to BWM (d), and stop your WBs to stop hunting the wings by setting their duties to Defend. That's it. No change in PIs.

- And definitely, you need a SUS tactic like the one posted in this thread to save a lead and/or some legs on the pitch. Since all of the above have quite high intensity (I am yet to try Counter mentality with ARGUS which is bound to lower the intensity and avoid injuries considerably, like many managers have tried with Midsomer 442s with great success), and I have observed that no matter what, injuries are unavoidable with high intensity tactics. I usually take the starting 10 outfield players and give them 2 days rest from training when the midweek games start to thicken up

 

 

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Your favourite is this one ? if yes there is a problem that i have 18.3.3 patch ? because it is for 18.3. Sorry for my stupid question .

 Also one more question which is the PILGRIMAGE FM 18.3.3 LPOOL P104 if you can link it i would i appreciate it. Thanks a lot .

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After 343 the next best 5 Star tactics are the 442s then 352 3430 3412 3421

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You can use control counter or SUS with same tactic. Most put same tactic in all 3 slots. Depending on squad I would say use a 442 352 and 3412 or 3421

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1 minute ago, knap said:

You can use control counter or SUS with same tactic. Most put same tactic in all 3 slots. Depending on squad I would say use a 442 352 and 3412 or 3421

Does that mean you don’t rate Pilgrimage 4321 and 451?

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Any tactic I post can win PL with a top side.. However for MR L Testing with sub top and under dog these tactics are not considered 5 stars.

I think PILGRIMAGE 451 at P293 is the top rated 451 and given a 4.5 Star rating. 5 Star PILGRIMAGE 343 is P380 so even using the same set up there is a drop in overall performance when using a 451 formation.

One of the tricks with a 451 is to get the DM to mark a lone striker to produce a more 3 at back system.

Edited by knap

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So in other words, your best tactic which uses one striker is the 451 Pilgrimage? I dont like using 3 striker tactics. It obviously exploits the ME.

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There are many 3 striker tactics that score less pts than the PILGRIMAGE 451, so not an obvious exploit. My best one striker tactic is GOODBYE 3421.

 

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Thanks knap. I meant your best 'traditional' tactic in terms of shape. 4411, 4231 and 451 are the three I want to use, so I assumed 451 Pilm, was the best one? Starting a new long term save. Want to use the best one. Out of the three mentioned

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The 4141 has yet to be tested and 442 is the best 4 at back tactic, but the 451 is close to being 5 star. Certainly this year 3>2>1 but in FM 08 it was lone striker tactics, and last year 0 strikers.. 

Edited by knap

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Thanks knap. Yeah, I haven't tried the 442 Midsomer as yet. Only a couple games, but obviously need to give it a good whirl. Will stick with the 101 point 451 and swap between that and the 442 for a balanced tactical approach.

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MIDSOMER FLAT 442 P103 and VOL MEZ are close and the 451 is stronger with sub top or under. However for top clubs 4231 may be better. Also there is the option of using counter when away. Using counter with MIDSOMER is also a good option.

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