Jump to content
Sports Interactive Community
Armistice

What is wrong with this tactic?

Recommended Posts

I'm currently sitting first with Leeds United after 16 games (that's because I played some games last night and our luck ran out and started to get beaten so I ragequit), but to be completely honest with you, I'm really lucky to be top of the table. Our wins come after a free-kick/corner is converted by a header into a goal, counter-attacks after the AI decides to go more attacking in the last 10-15 minutes to get the equalizer, since most of the times I only lead by 1-0 when that happens so yeah, in other words I do not create many good scoring chances here.

This is the set-up.

 

quiaNw3.png

 

The fact that two of my better players were injured (Saiz and Hernandez) didn't help of course, and the other decent player in the team, Alioski, keeps shooting from distance because of his PPM, but still I think we should have done better than that. Can you tell me what could be done here to improve the tactic? The point of using a Shadow Striker is because, imo, Leeds have average strikers at most so I'm trying to use an attacking midfielder who acts like a striker. The other IF down the left flank should be Saiz, he's my best player and I want him to be a goal scorer (initially I gave Saiz the SS role because I wanted him to score but also use his technical skills to create chances for the IF when possible).

Should I try to be more positive in terms of duties? Given the fact that my fullbacks are not very attacking, then having a DM who sits back and does the "destroyer" thing, I don't know.

Edited by Armistice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd probably have a look at the roles of your front 5. Is there any reason you've gone with a SS instead of a more conventional forward? I mean, even with average strikers, you're missing out on that presence in the final strata. Strikerless usually only works with a squad that has players whose attributes specifically make up for this. Why not use a Trequartista or False 9 a bit further up?

Edited by allezdae

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, allezdae said:

I'd probably have a look at the roles of your front 5. Is there any reason you've gone with a SS instead of a more conventional forward? I mean, even with average strikers, you're missing out on that presence in the final strata. Strikerless usually only works with a squad that has players whose attributes specifically make up for this. Why not use a Trequartista or False 9 a bit further up?

Okay mate, it's very simple to explain, it was a decision I took after looking at their squad. First of all, I wasn't confident in Leeds strikers. I terminated Lasogga loan because he was on pretty big wages and he wasn't very impressive attributes wise, and the other strikers' attributes were more of what you'd like to see in a good Advanced Forward, they had good dribbling, finishing and first touch, but very poor (for a Championship side) team work, work rate, decisions, passing, vision. I'm talking about 10, 11 max, that's probably midtable League One level.

Secondly, I wanted someone who attacks the space rather than someone who creates space for others, that's why I chose a Shadow Striker. Treq does a bit of that on top of being a creator, but I didn't want him to be the focal point when we were attacking, especially after my main man Saiz got injured and I had to replace him with a weaker player in the starting 11. 

I admit I don't have much knowledge about strikerless systems and how they work and who's supposed to create space for Shadow Strikers, but I didn't have any better idea of what to do in this specific situation. I will look to bring in some players in January transfer window, maybe a good striker if I can find, but until then I have to make sure we don't drop too many points using this system.

Edited by Armistice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What players are you actually playing? I find it interesting that you cancelled Lasogga's loan, as looking at him on my save he looks like a very good option for being a lone striker with the physical presence he has.  It's hard to say about roles, again because I'm not sure who else you have and how they'd sort of fit together. I just want to get an idea of who you're playing and where.

 

Also, iirc Leeds are predicted around midtable aren't they? If things are going well, you might not necessarily have to change a whole lot. 

Edited by arwelt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, arwelt said:

What players are you actually playing? I find it interesting that you cancelled Lasogga's loan, as looking at him on my save he looks like a very good option for being a lone striker with the physical presence he has.  It's hard to say about roles, again because I'm not sure who else you have and how they'd sort of fit together. I just want to get an idea of who you're playing and where.

 

Also, iirc Leeds are predicted around midtable aren't they? If things are going well, you might not necessarily have to change a whole lot. 

Lasogga was pretty slow but the fact that he had big wages made me terminate the loan. Anyway, when everyone's fit, I play Saiz on the left as IF, Alioski as SS and Roofe as a winger down the right flank. Then I have Hernandez as AP and Phillips as Mezalla; I also play Hyndman, he's on loan from Bournemouth, as Mezalla and O'Kane as AP, when rotation is needed.

 

 

Yeah Leeds are predicted to finish 7th I believe, but I would probably be around there if I didn't have a good dose of luck imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Armistice said:

Lasogga was pretty slow but the fact that he had big wages made me terminate the loan. Anyway, when everyone's fit, I play Saiz on the left as IF, Alioski as SS and Roofe as a winger down the right flank. Then I have Hernandez as AP and Phillips as Mezalla; I also play Hyndman, he's on loan from Bournemouth, as Mezalla and O'Kane as AP, when rotation is needed.

 

 

Yeah Leeds are predicted to finish 7th I believe, but I would probably be around there if I didn't have a good dose of luck imo.

Usually when I start my first aim (unless I have massive funds) is to just build the tactic around what I've got, so I'm going to try and give advice based on what I would look to do. That doesn't mean I think oh you have to change your formation to this or that, because I think you've got a solid base there already, and your results would show you're around where you want to be. This is just the sort of things I would look at

Without Lasogga I think that leaves you with Tyler Roberts and Roofe as strikers, I know you're playing a strikerless but they both fit in there too. Personally, I would look to create for those two. They're two of the fastest players in the team, some of the best finishers and Leeds have the technical ability in midfield to supply them imo. Saiz is one of those.  He has good passing, technique, vision, OTB and Flair. His pace and acceleration aren't the best, and the rest of his attributes would make me want to get him a support duty to get him on the ball to supply players, rather than being the one finishing attacking moves.  I'd also consider Stuart Dallas, his work rate and stamina would be really helpful out on the right wing for me. 

 

Again, that's just the sort of things I would look at. I'm not trying to get you to completely change how you want to play. If you want Saiz to be the main goal threat, you could look to maybe make the AMC a supplier for example. You could push Hernandez up, give Saiz little defensive work (such as treq or raumdeuter) and let him solely be a goalscorer.  

Edited by arwelt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, arwelt said:

Usually when I start my first aim (unless I have massive funds) is to just build the tactic around what I've got, so I'm going to try and give advice based on what I would look to do. That doesn't mean I think oh you have to change your formation to this or that, because I think you've got a solid base there already, and your results would show you're around where you want to be. This is just the sort of things I would look at

Without Lasogga I think that leaves you with Tyler Roberts and Roofe as strikers, I know you're playing a strikerless but they both fit in there too. Personally, I would look to create for those two. They're two of the fastest players in the team, some of the best finishers and Leeds have the technical ability in midfield to supply them imo. Saiz is one of those.  He has good passing, technique, vision, OTB and Flair. His pace and acceleration aren't the best, and the rest of his attributes would make me want to get him a support duty to get him on the ball to supply players, rather than being the one finishing attacking moves.  I'd also consider Stuart Dallas, his work rate and stamina would be really helpful out on the right wing for me. 

 

Again, that's just the sort of things I would look at. I'm not trying to get you to completely change how you want to play. If you want Saiz to be the main goal threat, you could look to maybe make the AMC a supplier for example. You could push Hernandez up, give Saiz little defensive work (such as treq or raumdeuter) and let him solely be a goalscorer.  

Sure I reckon you have some interesting proposals, but Tyler Roberts and Roofe are very similar players so I think you mean that I should play only one of them and not both at the same time? If that's the case, having a sole striker system might struggle against deep sides. I'm going to give it a try and see how it works out (I'm not very good at spotting issues with the systems so yeah I probably won't be able to tell what's wrong with it lol). But the issue I think is against sides that sit deep and defend space.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Armistice said:

Sure I reckon you have some interesting proposals, but Tyler Roberts and Roofe are very similar players so I think you mean that I should play only one of them and not both at the same time? If that's the case, having a sole striker system might struggle against deep sides. I'm going to give it a try and see how it works out (I'm not very good at spotting issues with the systems so yeah I probably won't be able to tell what's wrong with it lol). But the issue I think is against sides that sit deep and defend space.

It all depends. You don't necessarily have to move them up top, you could keep them at SS if you wanted.  You could remedy it by getting in a more physical striker during Jan who you can have better success with crosses, or even have a backup 2 striker formation so both Roberts and Roofe play. Leeds squad seems quite versatile in that you can have some different formations. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think you will gain much by asking others such a broad and potentially open-ended question.

Ultimately it comes down to you and the more pertinent question would be 'What do YOU think is wrong with this tactic?'.

In order to answer that question, you need to observe how the tactic plays with an idea in mind of what you want to see.

I see that you are thinking about the game and trying to adjust the way the team plays based on the players you have available which is a good thing but you must not lose sight of the bigger picture whilst doing so and forget that the tactic still needs to form a coherent whole.

For example, when I look at the roles you have chosen in that tactic, I see the presence of two False 10s (IF and SS) but no False 9s. Both of those roles rely on players ahead of them creating the space for them to attack by dragging defenders out of position. If this doesn't happen then what you are likely to observe is those two players running into a wall for 90 minutes and hoping for defensive mistakes / set pieces in order to score goals.

I'd be concerned also about the isolation of the two attack duty players away from the rest of the team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not use the advice out of one of the million topics you've created all asking a similar thing? I mean you've had the most advice I've ever seen anyone have in the 20+ year history of this forum. People have gave you detailed responses and you say you've taken it all onboard but clearly haven't. You chop and change constant. It's a waste of time anyone even trying to help you as it feels you don't listen or take the advice in and in a day or so you'll moved on and created another tactic/topic all asking the same thing.

You was top of the league and then started losing and rage quit lol. Have some perspective. I suggest you go back over the other threads you've started and read all the suggestion that people have gave etc. It's got to the point now where people know if they post, you'll have moved onto something else before they hit the reply button.

You've had some cracking advice in these threads all ready, why not actually read them and try and process it instead of repeating yourself constant.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Cleon said:

Why not use the advice out of one of the million topics you've created all asking a similar thing? I mean you've had the most advice I've ever seen anyone have in the 20+ year history of this forum. People have gave you detailed responses and you say you've taken it all onboard but clearly haven't. You chop and change constant. It's a waste of time anyone even trying to help you as it feels you don't listen or take the advice in and in a day or so you'll moved on and created another tactic/topic all asking the same thing.

You was top of the league and then started losing and rage quit lol. Have some perspective. I suggest you go back over the other threads you've started and read all the suggestion that people have gave etc. It's got to the point now where people know if they post, you'll have moved onto something else before they hit the reply button.

You've had some cracking advice in these threads all ready, why not actually read them and try and process it instead of repeating yourself constant.

 

I don’t understand why you have to post the same thing over and over, do you think I am that stupid? I said in the previous threads that I needed a save to keep me interested and once I get past the first few games I will stop changing teams and that’s what happened, I played 23 games of this Championship season and I haven’t changed teams and I’m not thinking about doing it. Is that what you want to see?

Edited by Armistice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Armistice said:

I don’t understand why you have to post the same thing over and over, do you think I am that stupid? I said in the previous threads that I needed a save to keep me interested and once I get past the first few games I will stop changing teams and that’s what happened, I played 23 games of this Championship season and I haven’t changed teams and I’m not thinking about doing it. Is that what you want to see?

Because it's like I've said to you before - if you keep asking the same things and/or keep changing from one team to another despite lots of help being given, people may become unwilling to help.  They give up their own free time to help and if the only feedback they see is "I've switched teams again and still have the same issues" you run the risk of comments such as that.  By your own admittance you rage quit.

Here look, you say:

17 hours ago, Armistice said:

But the issue I think is against sides that sit deep and defend space.

You created a thread (linked above) that specifically asks how to break down this type of defence, you received loads of replies, so what exactly have you learned from that?  Because you're still asking the same question, and that can make people feel like they're wasting their time.

I'm not saying this to have a go at you - people are still helping you as you can see - but if you keep asking the same questions or pitch up with another new team, don't be surprised when you get that type of response.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im not sure if its just me but i feel like ive read "whats wrong with this tactic" on this forum from the same person at least 5 times. plenty of experienced users have given in depth feedback. might be worth trying to read the feedback and implementing it rather than just moving to a new team and never learning from your mistakes. ive learnt to improve by sticking with my team when failing and really spending time working our what ive done wrong. if you keep moving from team to team, tactic to tactic and after 10 games just a start a thread on here youre wasting yours and everyone else's time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So that's what I intend to do, stick to this team and try to learn what's going wrong with the tactic and what can I do to improve it.  I've been given some advice by people here, I will gladly try these when the transfer window opens and get one or two good strikers who can create space but we've still got a bit of work to do to get on January 1st. Then someone else suggested to create for Tyler Roberts/Roofe so I'm looking to implement that aswell. I don't think they fit the SS role very well at the moment but there are a few things we can do, one of them would be a back-up formation like arwelt said, which I already had since the start of the season (a 4-3-1-2) but we also need the striker there who can play as DLF/F9.

Edited by herne79
removed troll comments

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've removed some comments from the above post which will wind people up even more.  If I have to do that again I'll just close the thread.

Use the advice being given, don't waste people's time - which is why you are attracting such replies as above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay so until January Transfer Window, I made some changes to the strikerless tactic. I moved the AMC to ST strata, then switched the Mezalla to Attack duty.

 

5F7btko.png

 

If I'm being completely honest with you, I don't feel very comfortable with this right now because it's not the type of roles I would use for the 3 midfielders. What do you guys think about this?

Edited by Armistice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Armistice said:

What do you guys think about this?

Try first, think on it, share your observations, see if others agree. When in doubt use preseason properly, with teams similar in reputation to try your systems out. I can tell you that tactic will work with me cos I have the players for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay so I'm going to share a recurring situation I noticed after switching to the above tactic.

 

Xobcw18.jpg

Here Phillips has the ball, he doesn't really has passing options, but Saiz, so he picks him with a pass.

 

UnFncSC.jpg

 

Saiz gets the ball and we can see Sheff Wed's CB, #46 goes up to close Saiz down.

 

0LflgsL.jpg

 

Gap appears in their defence. Now I was thinking maybe my IF should have tried to move in there. He did not.

 

UVnJk3U.jpg

 

Saiz passes it to him. He ends up taking a long shot from the edge of Sheff Wed's box, after their CB moves back to in the back four.

 

KcPiImB.jpg

 

 

Another move, same game.

 

2JK5V05.jpg

 

O'Kane passes it to Saiz.

 

TpkQI6g.jpg

 

Saiz gets the ball and as you can see, Sheff Wed's CB tries to close him down again, leaving a small gap behind. My number 7, the IF  (this move is earlier in the game, Roofe got injured and had to replace him) sees the opportunity and moves in there anticipating a pass.

 

6pe0I0A.jpg

 

He gets the ball but he's a bit too deep to do any real damage so again, he takes a long shot.

 

fKXzODz.jpg

 

 

Now, I am trying to figure it out why this happened. I mean why the long shots are taken from the edge of the box.

 

 

Btw I think I realized one thing today, in the next game v Millwall who happened to play 4-4-2 aswell, they had a defend duty in ML strata and a FB-S most likely so they really shut down my winger and double teamed him so I didn’t know how to work out that flank, I switched my FB to WB-S hoping that he would attract their ML to close him down but that didn’t happen. After I finished the playing session for today I realized I could have gone another way, switch the Winger to IF or AP and give my fullback a more aggressive duty to overlap. Could have done more havoc that way, but it’s too late to test it now, maybe next time. :)

Edited by Armistice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the answer to this specific situation above was to put your full-backs on a more aggressive role; see how in both situations their right back is tucked following the IF and how much space is there for your left-back -- maybe if he was more aggressive, there would be more space to Roofe/Temenuzhkov, maybe he can whip a cross.

Same thing on the other side, with your full-back moving more aggressively, there would be more space/the defender would have to take more decisions, all of this can contribute for you to score.

(Take note that you probably shouldn't be playing all game this aggressively or you would be inviting the counter, you just have to feel it and play by ear)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, felipencntst said:

I think the answer to this specific situation above was to put your full-backs on a more aggressive role; see how in both situations their right back is tucked following the IF and how much space is there for your left-back -- maybe if he was more aggressive, there would be more space to Roofe/Temenuzhkov, maybe he can whip a cross.

Same thing on the other side, with your full-back moving more aggressively, there would be more space/the defender would have to take more decisions, all of this can contribute for you to score.

(Take note that you probably shouldn't be playing all game this aggressively or you would be inviting the counter, you just have to feel it and play by ear)

Hmm my left FB is a WB on support, with an IF infront of him on attack duty, wouldn't it be a bit too risky to give him an attack duty aswell?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Armistice said:

Hmm my left FB is a WB on support, with an IF infront of him on attack duty, wouldn't it be a bit too risky to give him an attack duty aswell?

Yes. But in the end of the day, you ended up losing anyway, and you were not happy with how your team was attacking in the situations above. 

In your shoes, I would put a pressure on the first 30 minutes, see what that gets us, then regroup with how the match is going.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, felipencntst said:

Yes. But in the end of the day, you ended up losing anyway, and you were not happy with how your team was attacking in the situations above. 

In your shoes, I would put a pressure on the first 30 minutes, see what that gets us, then regroup with how the match is going.

 

Hmm okay, I will test it to see how it works out. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so I tried a more aggressive fullback down the left

kWKUXmZ.png

 

Doesn't look very good...

Edited by Armistice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Armistice said:

Ok so I tried a more aggressive fullback down the left

kWKUXmZ.png

 

Doesn't look very good...

But it looks like you won against Hull, it's a good result, with 2 goals from the left side.

What don't you like about it? I mean, if we ignore that your #10 (is it Alioski?) can't keep it cool and finished like a hundred times from outside the area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay so I'm going to post pictures of the long shots, see what is going on before the long shot is taken and maybe we can come to some agreement again. I did not post that picture to dismiss or belittle someone's advice, it was just frustrating to see how many long shots were taken from outside the box.

It's true my number 10, Alioski has PPM Shoot from Distance, I tried to train him to stop doing that but so far it's not been very successful.

 

The last game was against Fulham who are second, lost it but despite that, we're still top of the league with 65 points, 10 more than third placed Wolves and 6 more than second placed Fulham. That is very good. Again, I can accept that we're going to lose some, we're going to win some, but I would like to improve the quality of our football. It happens that sometimes we score great goals like passing our way into the net, but most of the times our moves end up with a long shot so we're going to see why.

 

 

gKV2vbY.png

 

We've had a lot of shots on target, only two teams have registered more shots on target, but the ratio is very poor, only 20th in the league. If we could improve this, maybe we could score more goals. And to improve this, let's now look at how the team is moving in possession. But before that, let's take a brief look at other stats.

 

Our home form.

S12VI73.png

 

Our away form.

1alIk4F.png

 

At home, we've lost once, but our away form looks more concerning. Maybe I should adapt more when I'm away from home and try to spot things before they score.

 

91aqGwC.png

 

Most shots were taken by Alioski and Saiz, both have pretty poor shots on target ratio (Alioski needs around 4 shots to hit the target, Saiz even more, 4.5). The next one in the list is Phillips who needs around 3.2 shots to hit the target, but he's also taken those long shots after a corner so it's probably a bit inflated. What we can learn from this is that our main men, Alioski and Saiz need only two shots on target to score.

 

 

Now, moving to shots.

#1.

Here, we played the ball from the back. Pennington, #5 in this picture, passed it to O'Kane. He does not have many passing options so he passes it wide to Saiz.

h0WxvoF.jpg

 

Saiz, as an IF, cuts inside and passes it to my Mezalla, #23.

5nuD6zT.jpg

 

Phillips got closed down and almost lost the ball so he passed it back to Saiz.

YwhzZGX.jpg

 

Saiz looks around for a passing option, but he finds Alioski who's central.

PHiFKUO.jpg

 

Here Alioski is about to take the shot.

loDEDIU.jpg

 

#2.

This one is a bit different. Here Hull are attacking us and Saiz closes Henriksen down and gets the ball. He passes it to Alioski.

 

HTj9AXb.jpg

 

VAhhf9k.jpg

 

Alioski starts running with the ball, but there's no one able to keep it up with him. They were probably too deep and Alioski's quite fast compared to his team mates.

 

wbbpoSZ.jpg

 

You could of course predict what happens.

 

2UUn9Bm.jpg

 

 

#3.

Here we're attacking Hull and Ayling's passing inside, to O'Kane.

 

Ax2ZEfr.jpg

 

O'Kane gets the ball and then passes it to Phillips who then goes and pass it forward to Alioski.

 

JxniaDE.jpg

 

z4pyFy7.jpg

 

LW2N9cR.jpg

 

Again, there's Hull's CB who closes Alioski down and a small gap appears in Hull's formation.

 

Alioski turns around and shoots.

 

L0azYFV.jpg

 

q4bEASi.jpg

 

 

#4.

 

This is very similar to the first long shot situation. This comes after a throw-in around our box, we play it around from one side to another through our CBs.

 

SlxUGTH.jpg

 

H5hxSs9.jpg

 

UoLv2gW.jpg

 

3JkqptP.jpg

 

Saiz is found with a pass by O'Kane. Notice how in most of the moves, my CBs almost always ignore the DM and pass it directly to the AP.

 

AusxSIb.jpg

 

yd3cDX4.jpg

 

sKiA7kl.jpg

 

A060902.jpg

 

Ok one more from this game.

 

#5.

 

This comes right after we scored the first goal. Hull's LB has poor first touch and loses the ball to Saiz.

 

x1qixs0.jpg

 

Saiz passes it to Alioski and he goes forward through dribbling before taking a long shot.

 

zXRAFT9.jpg

 

mw4T9KV.jpg

 

#6.

One more from a different player. Again, we play from the back. Lato gets the ball from our GK, he passes it to O'Kane who then passes it to Cibicki, our IF later after making some subs. Btw, after 75 minute or so Hull switched to a 5-4-1 Defensive so that's why you see three CBs.

 

oRQfrGE.jpg

 

LPh6TeX.jpg

 

Lbk6G2V.jpg

 

zeWwV1i.jpg

 

i5r9wye.jpg

Edited by Armistice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Can you just stop for a moment and read your post here please, bearing in mind you're in your first season as Leeds.

I understand you want to improve the quality of your football but just take a step back and consider your expectations.  Or should I say over expectations.  There might be something you could do to reduce long shots and your away form but you're top of the league by 6 points deep in the season (which was 9 points before your loss v Fulham), so why run the risk of breaking something that doesn't need fixing?

You're running headlong into automatic promotion and the Premier League.  That'll be the challenge - not this season - and something I'd start to plan for now.

I have to agree with this post. You're literally overachieving. Tactics can only do so much. Better quality football will come with better quality players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 31/05/2018 at 19:18, Armistice said:

Okay so until January Transfer Window, I made some changes to the strikerless tactic. I moved the AMC to ST strata, then switched the Mezalla to Attack duty.

 

5F7btko.png

 

If I'm being completely honest with you, I don't feel very comfortable with this right now because it's not the type of roles I would use for the 3 midfielders. What do you guys think about this?

What pis do you have?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, PaddyTaka said:

What pis do you have?

Goalkeeper’s PI - Distribute to fullbacks, the front three and the two CMs are told to Close Down More & Tackle Harder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Armistice said:

Goalkeeper’s PI - Distribute to fullbacks, the front three and the two CMs are told to Close Down More & Tackle Harder.

Agree with Herne... But if your ultimate goal is performance not result then i also get that. For me i can create winning teams that give me no enjoyment because it is not my own stamp tactically. 

Why not add PI to Alioski to shoot less? TI work ball into box? Alioski be more disciplined? Train him some ppm 'likes to get in opposition area'. 

Shadow striker isnt intended to play as s lone striker... It seems a bit 'gamey' that you have chosen that role. One of the consequences is that he is you furthest forward player whilst at the same time your most attacking (in terms of mentality)... So he isnt going to be inclined to hold the ball up and wait for support.

I have missed or you havent stated... What would your ideal attacking movement be? Do you want your central attacker to be the goalscorer or provider? If you are creating space constantly for the IF... Make sure that player is attack duty and change your AM from shadow striker to an AM 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well done - the real challenge will be next season in the Prem, so don;t expect too much. A relegation dogfight is far more interesting tactically.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thought I'd let you guys know, I won the Championship, it was never in doubt after Fulham's form dropped. We broke the record of the most points in a season and most wins in a season so can't be that bad, can it :P

 

8HRaAEx.png

 

I'm planning for the life in Premier League right now, then I'm gonna have to make small adjustments to the tactic to make sure we're not too exposed to the much better Premier League.

Edited by Armistice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To prepare for next season, instead of rushing into it, analyse why you conceded so many goals, and lost 11 games. Then look at your team and identify the important areas that need to be strengthened. Make sure you target your signings before preseason starts. 

Then and this is the part people will disagree with me, but I swear by it, you arrange matches against bigger clubs, make sure to play at least 3 of them early so that you can see what your shortcomings are, and whether your boys can move the ball seamlessly from defence to a shot on goal. The last 2 games can be your morale boosting thumping matches. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

To prepare for next season, instead of rushing into it, analyse why you conceded so many goals, and lost 11 games. Then look at your team and identify the important areas that need to be strengthened. Make sure you target your signings before preseason starts. 

Then and this is the part people will disagree with me, but I swear by it, you arrange matches against bigger clubs, make sure to play at least 3 of them early so that you can see what your shortcomings are, and whether your boys can move the ball seamlessly from defence to a shot on goal. The last 2 games can be your morale boosting thumping matches. 

Thank you for the advice Rashidi, yeah I'm taking it easy trying to understand why things happen and what I can do to improve and also understand that losses are frustrating, but they're part of the game. At the moment I'm still looking at roles combinations and how they work together on the pitch to create then attack the space, but of course it's probably going to be a different story when the season starts because we'll probably be one of the teams that will be the underdog in most of/every game so they'll look to be more attacking and leave space behind.

I was the underdog in some away games even late in the Championship season lol

Edited by Armistice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread is brilliant, because I've seen how frustrated you've been and how hard you've worked for it.

Before you start tinkering, make sure to save a cope of this, in case you "over tinker" and want to fall back to it.

But Rashidi is right, make sure you have a good watch of the games you lost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Making changes going to the next season is where a lot of managers, in RL and in FM mess up.  Even without big tactical changes, sometimes the recruitment is poor with managers going for players they want, rather than what they need.  Then starting the cycle of constantly tweaking the tactic trying to make it work starts, especially with the old "the team is full of stars, they should beat everyone easily!" type of thinking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

Making changes going to the next season is where a lot of managers, in RL and in FM mess up.  Even without big tactical changes, sometimes the recruitment is poor with managers going for players they want, rather than what they need.  Then starting the cycle of constantly tweaking the tactic trying to make it work starts, especially with the old "the team is full of stars, they should beat everyone easily!" type of thinking.

Cant agree with this more.  In the first season we finished 14th, in the second season we were 15th. I was stunned, cos that never happens to me. I made a classic mistake, in my 2nd season it was "cluster-signing". I would sign more than one player for one position and more often than not it was a side grade. No real improvements were made. In my third season I identified why I didn't improve, and realised that two areas of the pitch were letting me down. I made 3 signings and did a lot better. So being critical and thoughtful pays deep dividends.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, D_LO_ said:

Is that a Kingstonian spoiler alert?! :D

Sounds like it to me...! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

This thread is brilliant, because I've seen how frustrated you've been and how hard you've worked for it.

Before you start tinkering, make sure to save a cope of this, in case you "over tinker" and want to fall back to it.

But Rashidi is right, make sure you have a good watch of the games you lost.

There are more than a few people around the world smiling at your success Armistice :applause:

As has already been advised, whatever you do now make sure the outcome is to strengthen the first team, so plan it out and take your time. Keep your expectations realistic - staying up will be a win.

Like Rashidi advises, your pre-season will be important, I sometimes play as many as 9 friendlies, with three against higher rated teams, three against similar rated and three against lower rated teams - the three lower rated ones being the last three before season starts.

Good luck in the Prem!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The mistake I see a lot of people making is thinking pre-season is only about morale...you only need 2 games to get morale up, so use the other games wisely. My third season is a classic example and yes I am showing a lot of these shows in a row to get people up to speed or I will be 3 weeks ahead..I am already one and a half seasons in front of my shows.Sorry about the spoilers but tis really hard to keep quiet about it. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rashidi said:

The mistake I see a lot of people making is thinking pre-season is only about morale...you only need 2 games to get morale up, so use the other games wisely. My third season is a classic example and yes I am showing a lot of these shows in a row to get people up to speed or I will be 3 weeks ahead..I am already one and a half seasons in front of my shows.Sorry about the spoilers but tis really hard to keep quiet about it. 

 

That's true - pre-season for me is about being match fit for the first game, and familiarity with tactics - the proportion between both is dependant on how many new players there are, how different is the tactic from last year?

3 Hard games to sort out defence and solidity, 3 similar games to see how to change and tweak during the game & watching the transitions, three 'easy' games at the end to watch the forwards attack and to boost morale. Sensible rotation and squad should be match fit in time for the first game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bit late to the party here but as a massive Leeds fan, and someone who has played as Leeds many, many, many times on FM, I'd be more than happy to give you some advice. I'm currently 7 seasons into my Leeds save and we have been a top 4 Prem team for 3/4 seasons now. 

 

If I had have got into this earlier I would have said that you seem to be trying to force a lot of players into positions or roles that don't necessarily suit them and this is probably why you aren't getting the best out of them. Long term, you probably have a team shape and style of play in mind, but the question you always need to ask yourself at the start of any save is "Do my current squad of players fulfil all of the factors to make my formation/tactics work?" If the answer is no, then you're better off creating something that suits them best. 

 

Saiz is an incredibly gifted play maker, he can be the catalyst for anything good you do in the final third, it genuinely pained me to see you sticking him out wide or in a striker position haha. You may not want to play with a #10 type role, but in the short term, you had one of the best in the league, utilise that. The Premier League is a lot less forgiving with stuff like this, so try to sign players that suit the roles you want them to play. 

 

The summer window is going to be huge for you. It's so easy to go "Ooooh look at all of this money, I'm going to sign loads of players" but you need to be clever with your spending, that £20-30m really isn't going to go that far. Again, really think about how you want to play, the roles, shape and TIs you need for that and recruit around that. You've already said you don't feel like you have good strikers, and they don't come cheap. Spend some real time scouting (both yourself and your staff). I got promoted after my first season and spent almost half my transfer funds (£12.5m) on Kay Sierhuis from Ajax. He went on to score 15+ goals every season for the next 4 years (even hitting 30 in one season). He fit my style and the role I wanted perfectly. 

 

Enjoy it mate, get it right and it's a really enjoyable save with Leeds. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay guys so as I said before the most important thing for me right now is to understand the game. As Rashidi suggested, I started looking at the goals conceded in the previous season and most of them were conceded down the left side where we initially had the IF on attack and the AP in MCL and from individual mistakes. Anyway, I'm also trying to analyse goals like this and hoping I'll understand why these happened.

 

In this game v Burton, we changed our formation to 4-3-1-2 for some reason. Looking at the first goal, this is what happened.

Okay, so first of all, there was a ball intercepted in their half and they could have countered, but we managed to regain our defensive shape until they brought men forward. Then, they moved the ball like in the pics. First, Allen launched a long pass down the flank to Dyer.

 

nRSxeLh.jpg

 

Once Dyer gets the ball, my RB moves out of shape to close him down.

 

sjvBiQi.jpg

 

Dyer passes it to Miller and then the ball moves centrally to Allen.

 

eq0G7hk.jpg

 

UpnlRAw.jpg

 

Immediatelly Allen launches a ball in the space between the two CBs and Bent scores.

 

E8C1Q9g.jpg

 

9ocyjlY.jpg

 

Has this happened because my RB was dragged wide and then the CB tried to cover for him aswell, leaving space between the two CBs?

This is not a constant pattern in the way we conceded goals, I just wanted to know if I judged the situation correctly and if I missed anything. As I said, I'm trying to learn how/why things happen in the game.

Edited by Armistice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Armistice said:

eq0G7hk.jpg

Whilst your correct in that is started because your RB moved to engage there LW I don't think you can blame him, someone has to engage and he was closest, if he didn't then the winger could run at him or have time to swing a cross in etc.

I'd say the main issue was #14, he didn't get close to #18, let him turn and pass it then stood around leaving your #23 to try to close down two players.  The image above is the point where you have an issue, a simple pass inside has drawn two players to one of theres and left a big hole in CM that there #4 exploits.  In your first image #23 is the highest of the CM players, then puts more effort into become the deepest CM player whilst #14 has a stroll back.

With no pressure on the ball your d-line shouldn't try and hold its line, are you using offside trap?

In 4312 this is why the outside CM's are expected to be hard working players to help the FBs, but in this example the work is being done by the MC rather than the MCR.  The question is did the players do what you instructed them to do or was it a lack of the right attributes that caused it to happen?  Then the final question is can you fix the issue without having a bigger impact on another part of your play?

Edited by summatsupeer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Armistice

In this specific example, I don't think you can read too much into how your wide defenders and central midfielders are performing. It looks to me to be essentially a fantastic ball from  and a good bit of movement from Bent to peel off your CB.

The one thing that you could look at is the height of your defensive line. Without knowing your exact settings it's hard to provide proper help but it's something to keep an eye on - especially as you move into the PL and encounter faster, more intelligent players.

Further to the point on your defensive line, your line of restraint appears to be about 5-10 yards outside your box as it stands, meaning this type of goal would be a weakness. Again, difficult to provide accurate help but you could consider dropping your line, lowering your pressing instructions, playing a CB on cover duty or using a sweeper keeper. It depends on what fits with your players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 08/06/2018 at 11:50, felley said:

@Armistice

In this specific example, I don't think you can read too much into how your wide defenders and central midfielders are performing. It looks to me to be essentially a fantastic ball from  and a good bit of movement from Bent to peel off your CB.

The one thing that you could look at is the height of your defensive line. Without knowing your exact settings it's hard to provide proper help but it's something to keep an eye on - especially as you move into the PL and encounter faster, more intelligent players.

Further to the point on your defensive line, your line of restraint appears to be about 5-10 yards outside your box as it stands, meaning this type of goal would be a weakness. Again, difficult to provide accurate help but you could consider dropping your line, lowering your pressing instructions, playing a CB on cover duty or using a sweeper keeper. It depends on what fits with your players.

Okay so if I recall correctly the tactic had Push Higher Up in it. I’m still a bit not sure what exactly the defensive line is supposed to do. Is it the line where my defenders will try to block the attacks of the opponent or in other words “Hey guys when the opponent has the ball we going to defend 5-10 yards ahead of our box so we should stop their attacks there. If that’s the case, do you think a faster CB might have caught Bent from behind?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Armistice said:

I’m still a bit not sure what exactly the defensive line is supposed to do. Is it the line where my defenders will try to block the attacks of the opponent or in other words “Hey guys when the opponent has the ball we going to defend 5-10 yards ahead of our box so we should stop their attacks there. If that’s the case, do you think a faster CB might have caught Bent from behind?

Defensive line basically tells your players how far they can afford to be when you are attacking and have the ball, so the higher your defensive line the further away from goal they hold their position when you are attacking. This means playing on higher defensive lines requires defenders to have concentration, anticipation, positioning. If they have low amounts of these then they need strong acceleration with good technique for tackling. So you need to decide how far a defensive line you can afford to take. If you find that your defenders are frequently having a close race with the opposition when a ball is played over the top, then either you get a keeper who has got good first touch, acceleration, rushing out and kicking, or you adjust your defensive line so that they don't need to track back so far. Remember the further away from goal your players stand, the greater the chance good acceleration and off the ball will beat them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...