How to stop conceding late goals

[Tom14]

Help! I'm in an infuriating habit of conceding late goals and dropping loads of points. These 3 results all came within a few weeks of each other.

Is there a specific attribute for this. A couple of the goals have been howlers where a defender has tried to head the ball back to the goalkeeper but it has fallen short. Is this just a concentration thing? If so how can I fix that?

[zlatanera]

Concentration definitely plays a role - you can fix that by signing better players. Given you're Zamora I doubt that's an option, so slight adjustments to your tactics later on, for example telling your players to Retain Possession, and/or reducing the mentalities of some players i.e. if you play FB-Su, change that FB-De when you want to hold onto a lead. 

[Tom14]

In the two games I was in the lead for I chose to play contain, with retain possession but I'm wondering if the retain possession instruction made my defender try a header back to the keeper rather than just getting the ball away.

[Snorks]

Often, switching DCs to DCB helps - they don;t get too clever then. Clear to Flanks can waste a bit of time - other than that I usually switch mentality to Defensive, leave one ST on Attack and pull midfield to either D or S duties and FBs on Defend.

Slow the tempo, retain possession, Balanced or Narrow and Structured PLUS 'Waste Time' in the last ten minutes.

Longer term, look at signing players with better concentration, decisions and fitness/stamina - could be a tiredness thing.

[felley]

Dropping your mentality to Contain and adding Retain Possession is a little extreme IMO. Think about what you're asking your team to do: camp in your own third and try and pass the ball around - seems to be inviting trouble as any turnovers (which will happen eventually) will result in dangerous situations.

It's not so much that the logic behind dropping deeper and slowing play down is wrong per se, just that you have to think of these actions as situational. It's not a simple fix for not conceding late on.

[Artin]

when i'm up by 1 with 10 minutes to go i go with contain + flexible (no other team instructions) and my formation is a 4141:

def forward on def duty

wide midfielder x2 + central mid x2 all on def duty

anchor man

fb x2 + cd x2 all on def duty

very rarely do i give up an equalizer. i'd say out of 100x i've switched to this throughout my FM career, i have over 90% win rate.

 

[ajsr1982]

I picked up the following advice on here which has served me well.

- Keep an eye on the opposition formation widget. If they switch to 'attacking <Insert Formation>' in the last ten minutes, then:

 

- Stay in formation with existing roles/duties

- Clear all TIs

- Contain, Very Fluid, Retain Possession

 

It doesn't work all the time, but I've found it to be better than not doing anything. Bear in mind what @felley says above, and consider what your existing formation looks like before going ahead.  Look at your players' body language and check concentration/determination stats - take those players off for better alternatives if you can. Likewise, think about how your opponent will attack - crosses into the box and long shots if you're doing it right. You might want to take off that small full back. It's common sense, mostly.

The positive side of this is that it gets your team behind the ball, invites your opponents to over-commit and hence you're more likely to trigger a counter attack. 

 

[RodentofDoom]

touchline shouts concentrate or drop deeper can help a little

 

one thing to watch for is the "late in the game" substitute

that's fresh energetic legs on the pitch when all yours are tired & spent

so you need to be ready with a plan to contain it

 

or use it yourself to maintain offensive pressure during those final 10+ minutes

[Tom14]

Thanks for all the advice.

What I've been doing is going to a contain/fluid and keeping my existing TI's of play out of defence, retain possession, pass into space, and prevent short GK distribution.

Then I change my formation to a 5-1-4-0 with 2x FB/D and 3x CD/D, 1x DLP/D, 2x DW/D, 2x BWM/D.

The goals I've been conceding are largely individual errors, so my CD trying to head the ball back to my goalkeeper and it going short, or a shot from long range being deflected in by another of my CD's. 

It's just frustrating as hell - especially the games where I was 3-2 up and 3-0 up. It is like I knew it was going to happen, I just can't figure out how to stop it.

[Tom14]

Having just recorded a couple of decent wins and tying to hold on in the last 10 mins of games it seems that my problem was having players in the middle/attacking third who don't have a passing outlet. I noticed a couple of chances conceded when a player in the AM strata didn't have any options and so held onto the ball. lost it, and with one kick the ball was over my defence and into a 1v1 situation. Luckily they only hit the bar but since then I've been playing with my 2 CMs as a CM/S and AP/S giving whoever has the ball a forward runner. I still have enough numbers back so if I lose the ball and they score then fair enough.

[pheelf]

I'm not sure that changing to a Contain mentality and Fluid shape is necessarily a wise move when trying to hold onto a lead.

Just think about what that mentality is actually instructing your players to do.

1) Don't press the opposition at all giving them time and space on the ball

2) Play ultra slowly and allow players to dwell on the ball at a time when the opposition is likely to be pressing hard and trying to regain possession high up the pitch

3) Have the defensive line practically in front of the goalkeeper gifting acres of space in front of the defensive line which is made worse by having the 5 defenders and defensive midfielder stand off the opposition and not closing down space.

All of which is undesirable but then you compound it further by asking your defenders to attempt to bring the ball out from the back and retain possession which further lowers the tempo and passing range,

In my opinion, I would just keep playing the same way which enabled me to get into the lead in the first place. As the opposition commit forward I want to be able to punish them and exploit all that lovely space that they will grant my attacking players if I can get the ball forward to them.

I think a far more potent change to make when looking to protect a lead in the last 10 minutes might be making a substitution and bringing on some fresh legs. Especially a pacey striker or winger to torment a tired fullback who will struggle to recover defensively if they get caught high up the pitch which an attacking mentality encourages.

I'd also have a look at the body language of the players, is there any player looking complacent or nervous that I might be able to talk to and nurse mentally to the end of the game.

It might sound counter-intuitive but it might also be a good ploy to go more attacking. Pressing more and quickening the transitions from defending to attacking might just be what is needed to exploit the spaces the opposition leave when they over commit men forward and you win the ball back. You also might be able to get another goal and kill the game off completely. 

[ajsr1982]

17 hours ago, pheelf said:

I'm not sure that changing to a Contain mentality and Fluid shape is necessarily a wise move when trying to hold onto a lead.

Just think about what that mentality is actually instructing your players to do.

1) Don't press the opposition at all giving them time and space on the ball

2) Play ultra slowly and allow players to dwell on the ball at a time when the opposition is likely to be pressing hard and trying to regain possession high up the pitch

3) Have the defensive line practically in front of the goalkeeper gifting acres of space in front of the defensive line which is made worse by having the 5 defenders and defensive midfielder stand off the opposition and not closing down space.

All of which is undesirable but then you compound it further by asking your defenders to attempt to bring the ball out from the back and retain possession which further lowers the tempo and passing range,

In my opinion, I would just keep playing the same way which enabled me to get into the lead in the first place. As the opposition commit forward I want to be able to punish them and exploit all that lovely space that they will grant my attacking players if I can get the ball forward to them.

I think a far more potent change to make when looking to protect a lead in the last 10 minutes might be making a substitution and bringing on some fresh legs. Especially a pacey striker or winger to torment a tired fullback who will struggle to recover defensively if they get caught high up the pitch which an attacking mentality encourages.

I'd also have a look at the body language of the players, is there any player looking complacent or nervous that I might be able to talk to and nurse mentally to the end of the game.

It might sound counter-intuitive but it might also be a good ploy to go more attacking. Pressing more and quickening the transitions from defending to attacking might just be what is needed to exploit the spaces the opposition leave when they over commit men forward and you win the ball back. You also might be able to get another goal and kill the game off completely. 

I don't want to jump on this and say it isn't correct, but I believe there's a bit more to it than this, which others can corroborate, or not. Please remember this is an alternative view/opinion, and by no means the only version of the truth.

1) This is more down to interpretation, and I don't think you're being literal when you say don't close the opposition down at all. It closes down less, sure. But it's important to remember than this is in favour of something else, namely staying in defensive position and reducing the amount you're pulled around so you don't concede overloads in dangerous areas. To labour the point, it doesn't mean that your defenders will stand merrily by as someone lines a shot up from 12 yards out. It's about cutting off passing options instead of winning the ball back through tackling.

2) Again, I believe this isn't strictly true (or at least there is more to it), and linked to your point about bringing the ball out slowly from a very deep position. What we're doing is reducing the team mentality to Contain. As defensive as it gets. Then we're saying fluid/very fluid to bring individuals' mentality closer to the overall team mentality. What we're effectively doing is playing with as little risk as we possibly can, and your players' mentality bar (go to the PI screen in the tactics creator) should be very low. As such, your players' (especially those with a defensive duty) first thought in possession is to get the ball as far away from the goal as they possibly can. This will be tempered somewhat if you enable 'Retain Possession' but the effect isn't going to be a high-risk game of 'keep-ball' 20 yards from your own goal. You're more likely to see your players looking to play low-risk short passes where it's safe to do so, i.e., in the middle and attacking thirds of the pitch.

3) To some degree, yes. And yes, you might get done by a long shot, but a) this is lower risk than leaving space in behind against  teams playing with three forwards, and b) you have lots of bodies in between the shooter and the goal. The very idea of playing this way is to reduce your opponent to long shots and hopeful balls into the box. Very few teams adopt a status quo approach when one goal up and It's the go-to way of playing when protecting a lead in real-life. I guess the issue there is that it often happens naturally and the manager often has very little control over this. However in FM you have to actually tell your players to behave this way because it a computer game! 

The brilliant thing about football is there is no correct answer, and as you say, going attacking is another way of tackling the issue, essentially reducing it to a shootout in which you have a one goal headstart. If you're better than the opposition, have higher condition ratings, and your players aren't looking nervous/complacent, the odds are in your favour.

[WelshMourinho]

My personal method is to go to counter, make the the fbs  less offensive and look to break. I think a big thing that is maybe overlooked quite a bit is substitutions. A team will chuck on fresh attackers when they're chasing a lead, so I always like to be able to bring on at least one defender to have someone fresh on. However, I'm careful not to bring on too many defenders as I like to have fresh legs at the other side of the pitch to punish them on the counter.

[Snorks]

I rarely, if ever, go as defensive as 'Contain'. To defend a lead in last ten minutes, I want to set up a defensive block - where on the pitch it is is down to the players at my disposal but usually it sits fairly deep - I want to keep the opposition out of my penalty area, it's as simple as that. At the end of the day, I don;t mind them having the ball, as long as they can't do anything with it, or, at best, take hopeful long shots or pump crosses in to a penalty area I have just crowded with my players.

The 'Retain Possession' and slower tempo means when my players have the ball, they slow everything down, move play up the pitch and keep hold of the ball - if we have the ball the opposition can't score. The opposition will be trying to up the tempo I will slow it right down and frustrate them.

On a Defensive mentality, we might still get a break-away, but only if there is minimal risk in it - getting the ball forward quickly, but holding it there by passing it around is one of the most effective 'defensive' tactics. (Work Ball Into Box?)

At the end of the day, without the ball, I want my team to sit fairly deep so there is no space behind the back four to exploit (which makes it harder for their pacey substitute and easier for my tired defenders), nice and tight so the opposition are forced to go wide where the full backs and wide midfielders can work to stop the cross, OIs on their wide players to 'Show Weaker Foot' usually turns them back inside rather than crossing. 

Make sure I don;t have Get Stuck In or Tackle harder on anyone, don;t want to concede free kicks at this stage, and Close Down any threat from their long shot specialist.

Let them have the ball, just concentrate on stopping them doing anything with it.

Now, when we have the ball, move up the field but don;t risk losing possession. Play safe, take few risks and concentrate on keeping possession. Yes it's safer in their half, but anywhere on the field as long as we keep the ball. I do wish, under the 'Time Wasting' instruction we could tell players to take it to the corner and shield it. Ultimately though, if we are going to lose possession I would like it to be because we were caught offside (eats up time), give them a goal kick (eats up time and easy to regain possession if keeper kicks long) or a throw in near their corner flag (eats up time).

Overall though, it can depend on the opposition tactic, the players I have and a number of things - but generally, I look to remove any risk from my own tactic while forcing the opposition into dead-ends by removing options from their playmakers.

'Retain Possession', slower tempo, shorter passes all reduce risk.

[pheelf]

7 hours ago, ajsr1982 said:

I don't want to jump on this and say it isn't correct, but I believe there's a bit more to it than this, which others can corroborate, or not. Please remember this is an alternative view/opinion, and by no means the only version of the truth.

1) This is more down to interpretation, and I don't think you're being literal when you say don't close the opposition down at all. It closes down less, sure. But it's important to remember than this is in favour of something else, namely staying in defensive position and reducing the amount you're pulled around so you don't concede overloads in dangerous areas. To labour the point, it doesn't mean that your defenders will stand merrily by as someone lines a shot up from 12 yards out. It's about cutting off passing options instead of winning the ball back through tackling.

2) Again, I believe this isn't strictly true (or at least there is more to it), and linked to your point about bringing the ball out slowly from a very deep position. What we're doing is reducing the team mentality to Contain. As defensive as it gets. Then we're saying fluid/very fluid to bring individuals' mentality closer to the overall team mentality. What we're effectively doing is playing with as little risk as we possibly can, and your players' mentality bar (go to the PI screen in the tactics creator) should be very low. As such, your players' (especially those with a defensive duty) first thought in possession is to get the ball as far away from the goal as they possibly can. This will be tempered somewhat if you enable 'Retain Possession' but the effect isn't going to be a high-risk game of 'keep-ball' 20 yards from your own goal. You're more likely to see your players looking to play low-risk short passes where it's safe to do so, i.e., in the middle and attacking thirds of the pitch.

3) To some degree, yes. And yes, you might get done by a long shot, but a) this is lower risk than leaving space in behind against  teams playing with three forwards, and b) you have lots of bodies in between the shooter and the goal. The very idea of playing this way is to reduce your opponent to long shots and hopeful balls into the box. Very few teams adopt a status quo approach when one goal up and It's the go-to way of playing when protecting a lead in real-life. I guess the issue there is that it often happens naturally and the manager often has very little control over this. However in FM you have to actually tell your players to behave this way because it a computer game! 

The brilliant thing about football is there is no correct answer, and as you say, going attacking is another way of tackling the issue, essentially reducing it to a shootout in which you have a one goal headstart. If you're better than the opposition, have higher condition ratings, and your players aren't looking nervous/complacent, the odds are in your favour.

I agree that there are many ways to achieve the same result but I still feel that what was posted as a consistent way of holding onto a lead late in games will lead to the issues I highlighted. 

On ‎29‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 17:58, brookie1402 said:

Thanks for all the advice.

What I've been doing is going to a contain/fluid and keeping my existing TI's of play out of defence, retain possession, pass into space, and prevent short GK distribution.

Then I change my formation to a 5-1-4-0 with 2x FB/D and 3x CD/D, 1x DLP/D, 2x DW/D, 2x BWM/D.

The goals I've been conceding are largely individual errors, so my CD trying to head the ball back to my goalkeeper and it going short, or a shot from long range being deflected in by another of my CD's. 

It's just frustrating as hell - especially the games where I was 3-2 up and 3-0 up. It is like I knew it was going to happen, I just can't figure out how to stop it.

1) The defensive line and the DLP are going to stand off as much as possible given the contain mentality while the midfield line are going to close down more as stipulated by their PIs. I agree that a lot of passing options will be cut off but it comes down to where you are willing to grant the opposition time and space on the ball which in this setup are dangerous areas to be doing so.  

2) Given the formation and the fact that every single player is on a defend duty they will pass the ball around in their own half with the majority of passes going through the DLP. Add to that Play Out of Defence and Retain Possession and you are likely to see players dwelling on the ball as there is no effective out ball. 

3) I agree with what you have said in highlighting the positive aspects of having such a deep defensive line but for every positive there is also a pitfall. A deeper defensive line gives less space in behind but it also means that any opposition players making any runs in behind are likely to be onside. Also having more bodies in between the player and goal can help but also can be a hinderance in that it creates indecision as to whose responsibility it is to deal with the threat. 

Overall, I agree with much of what you say and in general there is no right way to stop conceding late goals. All I would add is that sometimes taking a more nuanced view can work rather than going to the extremes. For me, changing the formation, the mentality, the TIs, the player roles and duties seems excessive and can actually work against the goal of not conceding late goals given how unfamiliar the players will be with playing that way. 

[ajsr1982]

13 minutes ago, pheelf said:

I agree that there are many ways to achieve the same result but I still feel that what was posted as a consistent way of holding onto a lead late in games will lead to the issues I highlighted. 

1) The defensive line and the DLP are going to stand off as much as possible given the contain mentality while the midfield line are going to close down more as stipulated by their PIs. I agree that a lot of passing options will be cut off but it comes down to where you are willing to grant the opposition time and space on the ball which in this setup are dangerous areas to be doing so.  

2) Given the formation and the fact that every single player is on a defend duty they will pass the ball around in their own half with the majority of passes going through the DLP. Add to that Play Out of Defence and Retain Possession and you are likely to see players dwelling on the ball as there is no effective out ball. 

3) I agree with what you have said in highlighting the positive aspects of having such a deep defensive line but for every positive there is also a pitfall. A deeper defensive line gives less space in behind but it also means that any opposition players making any runs in behind are likely to be onside. Also having more bodies in between the player and goal can help but also can be a hinderance in that it creates indecision as to whose responsibility it is to deal with the threat. 

Overall, I agree with much of what you say and in general there is no right way to stop conceding late goals. All I would add is that sometimes taking a more nuanced view can work rather than going to the extremes. For me, changing the formation, the mentality, the TIs, the player roles and duties seems excessive and can actually work against the goal of not conceding late goals given how unfamiliar the players will be with playing that way. 

On (2). This just doesn't happen in my experience. I'd urge you to give it a try and see what you think. I can see you're looking at the 5-1-4-0 formation, which is extreme, and I'm talking about something slightly different - see my post earlier in the thread.

Of course there is no right way to do this. Football is all about risk and reward, and for every decision you take to mitigate something, it comes at a cost. I think you've perhaps not read what I wrote further up, however. I keep the formation, roles and duties exactly as they are. The only thing that changes is the mentality (which, yes, has knock-on effects) and the TIs. I think perhaps the same issue with (1). If I had lots of closing down PIs on my midfield, I'd remove those. I want a solid shape that doesn't break by chasing the ball around. That's narrow, with no space between two deep defensive lines. It concedes space in wide areas and the area 25+ yards from goal, and I'm fine with that. If the opposition can score from there, well played to them.

It works for me. In my last 11 games (only sample I have to hand), I've conceded one goal in the last 10 minutes of games - an 85th minute penalty in a 4-2 defeat. When I've been protecting leads, I've yet to concede. There's only three clean sheets in those 11 games too, so it's not like my defence is amazing.

Go back and watch any England game from Euro 2016 to see Contain in action.

[pheelf]

9 hours ago, ajsr1982 said:

On (2). This just doesn't happen in my experience. I'd urge you to give it a try and see what you think. I can see you're looking at the 5-1-4-0 formation, which is extreme, and I'm talking about something slightly different - see my post earlier in the thread.

Of course there is no right way to do this. Football is all about risk and reward, and for every decision you take to mitigate something, it comes at a cost. I think you've perhaps not read what I wrote further up, however. I keep the formation, roles and duties exactly as they are. The only thing that changes is the mentality (which, yes, has knock-on effects) and the TIs. I think perhaps the same issue with (1). If I had lots of closing down PIs on my midfield, I'd remove those. I want a solid shape that doesn't break by chasing the ball around. That's narrow, with no space between two deep defensive lines. It concedes space in wide areas and the area 25+ yards from goal, and I'm fine with that. If the opposition can score from there, well played to them.

It works for me. In my last 11 games (only sample I have to hand), I've conceded one goal in the last 10 minutes of games - an 85th minute penalty in a 4-2 defeat. When I've been protecting leads, I've yet to concede. There's only three clean sheets in those 11 games too, so it's not like my defence is amazing.

Go back and watch any England game from Euro 2016 to see Contain in action.

I'll have a look at (2) to see if what you're saying is correct. If you are right, that presents a problem as if they aren't doing that consistently in a 5-1-4-0 formation with all the players on the Defend duty with the Contain mentality on and with Retain Possession and Play Out of Defence on then they aren't really following the instructions if they punt it long all the time. It also runs contrary to what the OP says they observe.

On 29/05/2018 at 17:58, brookie1402 said:

The goals I've been conceding are largely individual errors, so my CD trying to head the ball back to my goalkeeper and it going short.

 

 

On 30/05/2018 at 22:17, brookie1402 said:

Having just recorded a couple of decent wins and tying to hold on in the last 10 mins of games it seems that my problem was having players in the middle/attacking third who don't have a passing outlet. I noticed a couple of chances conceded when a player in the AM strata didn't have any options and so held onto the ball. lost it, and with one kick the ball was over my defence and into a 1v1 situation. Luckily they only hit the bar but since then I've been playing with my 2 CMs as a CM/S and AP/S giving whoever has the ball a forward runner. I still have enough numbers back so if I lose the ball and they score then fair enough.

I understand that the strategy you use is different than that of the OP and I know it works as I have used it myself.

In the 2nd Champions League final of my fm18 save, my team took a 3-2 lead late in the game and to protect the lead I made the changes you did (except Retain Possession) and we held on to win keeping my 4-4-2 formation. This was however against much better players, had that not been the case I probably wouldn't have changed it.

I usually just make subs and keep playing the same way which tends to work as I rarely concede late goals that tend to be critical to the result of the game. If anything, it tends to be the exact opposite in that I often tend to score late goals against opposing teams that go more attacking.

In the end, it comes down to your philosophy and how you view things. I personally believe that camping isn't a strong play defensively. It rarely works IRL and is more dependent on the failure of the opposition rather than the quality of the defending (case and point being Iceland vs England). I also feel it can be counterproductive in that it encourages opposition pressure and demands that your players are great positionally at a time when they are tired and concentration can be an issue. That is why I only tend to make such drastic changes in exceptional circumstances against teams of much higher ability.

It can also be problematic taking such a hit to tactical familiarity at such a critical point in the game (unless you've trained up the tactic). Personally, I prefer my team to continue defending in the way that they have become accustomed to and are comfortable with.

Sometimes, I get the impression that people equate lower mentalities with being better defensively which isn't right.

[noikeee]

I think @pheelf is closer to the truth here. Going more defensive can help, but only if your setup ends up in a well balanced way that's capable of carefully soaking up pressure, instead of just inviting tons of pressure that eventually breaks your team down. It also depends a little on how the other team is playing. It's a tricky balance and if you just throw a ton of defensive-minded instructions, you're more likely to end up in a counter-productive place and with a weaker tactic that is more likely to concede goals than the original one (well, depending on what the original one looks like!).

Meanwhile these last few minutes are usually the ideal part of the game to score goals yourself, as the opposition frees up space that normally wouldn't exist and is out of balance themselves. That doesn't mean simply going more attacking is the answer neither, but it does mean that a tactic well set to exploit these weaknesses will fare better than one that's only focused on merely containing the opposition's attacking intent.

[ajsr1982]

1 hour ago, pheelf said:

I'll have a look at (2) to see if what you're saying is correct. If you are right, that presents a problem as if they aren't doing that consistently in a 5-1-4-0 formation with all the players on the Defend duty with the Contain mentality on and with Retain Possession and Play Out of Defence on then they aren't really following the instructions if they punt it long all the time. It also runs contrary to what the OP says they observe.

 

I understand that the strategy you use is different than that of the OP and I know it works as I have used it myself.

In the 2nd Champions League final of my fm18 save, my team took a 3-2 lead late in the game and to protect the lead I made the changes you did (except Retain Possession) and we held on to win keeping my 4-4-2 formation. This was however against much better players, had that not been the case I probably wouldn't have changed it.

I usually just make subs and keep playing the same way which tends to work as I rarely concede late goals that tend to be critical to the result of the game. If anything, it tends to be the exact opposite in that I often tend to score late goals against opposing teams that go more attacking.

In the end, it comes down to your philosophy and how you view things. I personally believe that camping isn't a strong play defensively. It rarely works IRL and is more dependent on the failure of the opposition rather than the quality of the defending (case and point being Iceland vs England). I also feel it can be counterproductive in that it encourages opposition pressure and demands that your players are great positionally at a time when they are tired and concentration can be an issue. That is why I only tend to make such drastic changes in exceptional circumstances against teams of much higher ability.

It can also be problematic taking such a hit to tactical familiarity at such a critical point in the game (unless you've trained up the tactic). Personally, I prefer my team to continue defending in the way that they have become accustomed to and are comfortable with.

Sometimes, I get the impression that people equate lower mentalities with being better defensively which isn't right.

I think there are perhaps a few crossed wires on (2). I can understand why you'd come to your conclusion on the OP's approach and I probably agree with you on balance. I was referring to my own approach however, which plays out quite differently.

I also agree that it depends on how good you are in comparison to the opposition, and what your initial setup is, actually. I tend to play low-medium risk anyway with a solid, disciplined spine and if I'm inferior/closely matched to the opposition, then camping is a good option because I'm not going to have the majority of the play anyway. It's a more extreme version of what I'm doing already - I see it more as keeping the back door closed and funnelling everything through the front, where I can place obstacles. If I knew I was better than the opposition and I saw they just left a big gaping hole at the back, then I'm rubbing my hands together because I back my players to keep control and exploit.

Actually this is only something I've adopted in FM18. In FM17, I was an advocate of the 4-1-4-1. Because it's low block already, if the opposition threw the kitchen sink at me, it didn't matter because I was set up to deal with it, and I generally did so. I might be imagining it, but I just can't get that to work the same way in FM18 (I believe the route to scoring has changed significantly between the two versions), and so I have to put belt and braces on it. I'd much prefer it if I didn't have to and I actually don't think I should. However, I see the opposition switch to 'Attacking 4-3-3' or 'Attacking 4-2-3-1' and I've learned that's as good as a goal if I don't react.

I'd probably agree that doesn't work that often IRL. However, as I said before, it happens naturally as teams get pushed back. Liverpool aren't a defensive team, but they effectively played Contain for large parts of the game against City and indeed in the final against Madrid. Players are drilled to revert/default to that style of play if they can't get control of the ball. Where there is an obvious imbalance, then teams will look to actively reject possession and territory of course, and in your language, try to cause the other team to fail. I guess it works often enough that teams will keep trying it. Portugal and Greece have won Euro finals playing this way, and it is the way to play against Liverpool, unless you're Real Madrid.

[ajsr1982]

53 minutes ago, noikeee said:

I think @pheelf is closer to the truth here. Going more defensive can help, but only if your setup ends up in a well balanced way that's capable of carefully soaking up pressure, instead of just inviting tons of pressure that eventually breaks your team down. It also depends a little on how the other team is playing. It's a tricky balance and if you just throw a ton of defensive-minded instructions, you're more likely to end up in a counter-productive place and with a weaker tactic that is more likely to concede goals than the original one (well, depending on what the original one looks like!).

Meanwhile these last few minutes are usually the ideal part of the game to score goals yourself, as the opposition frees up space that normally wouldn't exist and is out of balance themselves. That doesn't mean simply going more attacking is the answer neither, but it does mean that a tactic well set to exploit these weaknesses will fare better than one that's only focused on merely containing the opposition's attacking intent.

This worked so well on FM17. Play low block, look for the gaps, have a couple of quick players with attack duties attacking those gaps. Enjoy. The best equivalent I can come up with in FM18 is to surrender the midfield and play long balls up to a front three, but then it's just a shootout and it doesn't feel like I'm doing something realistic/skillful. I just end up penned in if I stick with one up front.

[Tom14]

It's happening again. Different team, same s*** within the space of 4 days.

[Robson 07]

On ‎29‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 17:58, brookie1402 said:

What I've been doing is going to a contain/fluid and keeping my existing TI's of play out of defence, retain possession, pass into space, and prevent short GK distribution.

Then I change my formation to a 5-1-4-0 with 2x FB/D and 3x CD/D, 1x DLP/D, 2x DW/D, 2x BWM/D.

Get rid of that playmaker role.  He'll attract the ball in positions where you don't want the ball played.  What's more definitely get rid of play out of defence!  That is high risk.  You want the opposite, low risk, no-nonsense clear to flanks.  You want to waste time.  Believe it or not shoot on sight wastes time.  The ball gets blasted into the stand.  It has to get retrieved which wastes time allowing your team set up in position to fight for an opposition goal kick.  Finally I'd add for you to not reach for this approach too early.  Time wasting before the 80th minute invites trouble.

Edit.  You are changing roles that remove through balls yet you are still passing into space.  Get rid of pass into space as well.