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Should Ozil and Gundogan be dropped from German World Cup squad?

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Morgenpost, meanwhile, asked on Wednesday, “With their Meeting with the controversial Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the German national team [players] Ilkay Gundogan and Mesut Ozil have scored an own goal.

“We have made the two realise that it was not a happy one”, said national coach Joachim Löw, Gündogan and Özil yesterday, nevertheless, for the World Cup squad has been nominated. He has made the right decision?”

In favour of banning them from the World Cup, Christian Burmeister explains his reasoning.

“If a national player makes an election campaign for the NPD [a far-right German polictical party], he has nothing to fear from the DFB and Jogi Löw except a little hot air.

“Because Özil and Gündogan have done something similar: campaigning for a man who pursues dissidents, tens of thousands locked away without trial, goes on conquest campaigns and wants to rise to the sole ruler.

“That’s exactly what the NPD dreams of.

“Of course you can defend the two with the argument that they did not know what they were doing. They are just naive footballers. But especially with Gündogan, the high school graduate from Gelsenkirchen, this is hard to imagine.

“The two are admired role models for millions. Especially for many children and adolescents. They were considered a prime example of successful integration.

“What is the actual message, if both of them are allowed to pay homage to an autocrat and his totalitarian ideology with impunity?

“The DFB has missed the chance to show that it is serious about the often-preached values of tolerance and fair play.

“And Matthäus, Effenberg or Uli Stein are due to lesser mistakes from the DFB team.

“Özil and Gündogan have not earned a lifelong ban. But a break for a World Cup length anyway!

“Then maybe they would also find time to talk to Deniz Yücel.”

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Turkish-origin Cem Özdemir, a prominent German Green MP and sharp critic of Mr Erdogan, attacked Gündogan's "my President" message.

"The federal president of a German international footballer is called Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the chancellor is Angela Merkel and the parliament is called the German Bundestag," he said.

 

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If I was German, I wouldn't want them to play.

That guy is one of the most disgusting people in the world right now, a modern day dictator.

 

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Germany should be banned from the World Cup if they're dropped for political reasons 

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Gundogan referring to Erdogan as "my president" could construed as saying he has no loyalty to Germany and if that's the case then they shouldn't play him.

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If they are good enough, they should be called up, regardless of their political opinions.

If we were to follow this logic (not calling up players based on political opinions), Sócrates would have missed the 1982 World Cup since he was a strong supporter of Cuban dictator Fidel Castro.

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No they shouldn't, just as PMLF says.

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If they stand behind their words, then they should play for Turkey. Obviously democratic rulers aren't important to these 2.

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I mean as far as I'm understanding, they met the leader of the country they're from. Do they have to denounce any and all familial ties to the countries once they signed up to play for the German team? Or can Germany pick, choose and cherry-pick what they should give up?

The decision to play for Germany was presumably a sporting one, rather than a political one. So why try to make it political?

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Posted (edited)

That guy literally removed Hakan Sukur from every historic book and stripped him of Turkish citizenship. He can't even return to the country.

Enes Kanter, best Turkish basketball player playing in NBA right now had his family arrested after he said Erdogan was a dictator. There's an arrest warrant issued for him and was stripped of his citizenship.
His family denounced him.

And then those two idiots take pictures with him because they're brainless duds that don't know anything.

 

Edited by GunmaN1905

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Probably not the smartest PR move on their part, but dropping them from the World Cup? :D 

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Do they have family in Turkey? Perhaps they were worried of repercussions?

Forget about a couple of footballers. It's irrelevant when Rolls Royce delegates discuss building a 5th Gen fighter jet for Turkey and them remaining in NATO.

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4 hours ago, PaulHartman71 said:

Probably not the smartest PR move on their part, but dropping them from the World Cup? :D 

This. 

What @PMLF also said above is spot on too. 

Who cares about their political beliefs? As long as they're not preaching it to others and demanding we follow. Which they aren't. Let them play football ffs. 

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1 hour ago, georginho_juventusygr said:

Germany are fine without them anyway.

this 100%

always advocated wanting to see Draxler get the ozil position in the team and in CM we are very strong

its a shame this has happened and as someone else have said perhaps if they feel this strongly about Turkey perhaps they should have played for them

a ban not for me, will leave a sour taste but if either bang the winning goal in I will be celebrating 

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The idea that they can’t show any national pride for Turkey because they play for Germany is so dumb.

Had a mate at Uni who had an English mum and an Indian dad. He was for all intensive purposes English, never even knew he was part Indian until his Dad came to pick him up at Christmas (which, yes, he celebrates). 

Whenever football or rugby was on he was as much an England fan as everyone else, but as soon as there was cricket on he was the biggest Indian fan you’ve ever seen.

Sure some would say something like HURRR WHY DONT YOU SUPPORT INDIA IN FOOTBALL THEN IF YOU LOVE INDIA SO MUCH?!?! But who cares. 

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We let Lampard play for England and his politic allegiances are vile...

 

 

 

 

 

(;) for @Crispypaul, just in case)

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We let John Terry captain the side...

Woodgate, Bowyer etc

-----------

also shows German football team is about as German as the England cricket team are English 

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They should be dropped. If international football isn't about representing your nation then what the hell is the point? We may as well just let the big nations buy whoever they want to play for them if we're going to have two people who evidently see themselves as Turks play for Germany.

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There's a bit more to this story than seems to be reported in some of the articles I've seen, it's more than just them showing support to Erdogan or pride about their Turkish background. It's fairly well known that there's a lot of Turkish people living in Germany, or at least whose family is originally from Turkey. During the German elections last year, Erdogan actively encouraged the Turkish people in Germany not to vote for Angela Merkel's party, or the SPD (the other main party) or the greens, calling them enemies of Turkey. There's an actual quote from him along the lines of "For all of our citizens in Germany, this is a struggle of honour". Obviously Erdogan trying to interfere with Germany's elections in this way wasn't something the main politicans were happy with.

Earlier this year, Erdogan announced plans to campaign in European countries ahead of the Turkish election, but has been banned from campaigning in Germany (and other countries), and has been accused of trying to exploit the Turkish communities here. By posing for photos like this, Ozil and Gundogan are being seen as actively supporting Erdogan in his campaign for the Turkish people living in Germany. It's also hit a bit of a nerve as they've both been shown as examples of successful integration in Germany and yet calling Erdogan "my president" and going against this ban against political campaigning is showing the opposite.

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Forgot to mention that apparenlty Can refused to meet him.

There's at least some of them who understand basic stuff.

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2 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

We let John Terry captain the side...

Woodgate, Bowyer etc

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also shows German football team is about as German as the England cricket team are English 

Nobody is under any illusions of the contrary regarding Germany though, surely? 

Even the likes of Podolski and Klose are Polish/German. Can, Ozil and Gundogan all Turkish/German. Mario Gomez Spanish/German. 

Just like most international teams, there's plenty of hybrid nationality players. England have the likes of Sterling who wasn't even born in England. 

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17 hours ago, kingrobbo said:

this 100%

always advocated wanting to see Draxler get the ozil position in the team and in CM we are very strong

its a shame this has happened and as someone else have said perhaps if they feel this strongly about Turkey perhaps they should have played for them

a ban not for me, will leave a sour taste but if either bang the winning goal in I will be celebrating 

I don't rate Ozil as high as most Arsenal fans, but it's bonkers to think Draxler's anywhere near as good

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2 hours ago, theonets said:

I don't rate Ozil as high as most Arsenal fans, but it's bonkers to think Draxler's anywhere near as good

Draxler would do a great job at 10

Allowing Reus and sane to play wide

Ozil is class for us but I believe the team would be better this way and more dynamic

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Honestly, I think that Muller is by far the most useful as the second striker.

Something like Reus-Muller-Draxler would be great, with Werner upfront.

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12 hours ago, PaulHartman71 said:

Had a mate at Uni who had an English mum and an Indian dad. He was for all intensive purposes English, never even knew he was part Indian until his Dad came to pick him up at Christmas (which, yes, he celebrates). 
 

he what

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Clearly means that whenever he thought about it in-depth he was English, but if he just answered off the cuff he was Indian. :)

 

 

 

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On 16/05/2018 at 11:29, Wiggins' Young Boys said:

Erdogan is a tosser, but politics shouldn't have a bearing on this sort of thing

Agree!

On 16/05/2018 at 13:15, Barry Cartman said:

Germany should be banned from the World Cup if they're dropped for political reasons 

Agree!

On 16/05/2018 at 15:37, PMLF said:

If they are good enough, they should be called up, regardless of their political opinions.

If we were to follow this logic (not calling up players based on political opinions), Sócrates would have missed the 1982 World Cup since he was a strong supporter of Cuban dictator Fidel Castro.

Agree!

No they shouldn't  be dropped, I assume everyone else thinks that too as I haven't read beyond PMLF's post...

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44187304

 

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Two German footballers of Turkish origin have met President Frank-Walter Steinmeier after criticism of photos showing them with Turkey's president.

Turkey's governing AK Party released the photos of them with Recep Tayyip Erdogan ahead of elections there.

Some German politicians said it seemed Mesut Özil and Ilkay Gündogan were endorsing Mr Erdogan - which they deny.

Germany has criticised the Turkish leader's crackdown on political dissent following a failed coup.

Özil, who plays for Arsenal, and Manchester City player Gündogan gave Mr Erdogan signed shirts at an event in London last week.

Both players are preparing to play in next month's Fifa World Cup in Russia, where Germany is among the favourites. Turkey did not qualify.

The German football federation (DFB) had also criticised the pair.

"The two players contacted us and the DFB and wanted to clear this issue up," Germany coach Joachim Loew told reporters.

They met President Frank-Walter Steinmeier at the presidential palace in Berlin.

"It was important to both of them to clear up the misunderstandings," said President Steinmeier.

He said that Özil had told him he stood by Germany, while Gündogan affirmed that "Germany is clearly my country and my team".

"Both assured us that they had not wanted to send any political signal with that action," DFB President Reinhard Grindel said.

"They also stated that they stand for our values on and off the pitch and that they identify with them."

Mr Erdogan, in power for the past 15 years, is seeking re-election in a snap poll on 24 June.

His Islamist-rooted AK Party has cracked down hard on opponents, especially since the July 2016 coup attempt by military officers.

Turkish police have arrested more than 50,000 people accused of links to US-based Islamic cleric Fethullah Gulen or to Kurdish separatists. They include opposition activists, journalists, teachers, lawyers and other public servants.

Mr Erdogan has also purged the military, police and judiciary, putting many state officials on trial.

After the criticism of last week's meeting, Gündogan issued a statement defending himself, Özil and a third player of Turkish origin Cenk Tosun over their meeting with Mr Erdogan.

They met on the sidelines of an event at a Turkish foundation that helps Turkish students, he explained.

"Are we supposed to be impolite to the president of our families' homeland?" he asked.

"Whatever justified criticism there might be, we decided on a gesture of politeness, out of respect for the office of president and for our Turkish roots."

 

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