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England's World Cup 23

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Yeah I think there's a midfield screen&press and then you let the forward players do what they like.  There's a nice mix of players in Kane, Sterling, Vardy, Rashford, Welbeck, Alli, Lingard, Delph and Loftus Cheek so Henderson/Dier have plenty of attacking potential ahead of them.

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Bemused by some of these comments, he's clearly going to be playing 3 at the back, the creative part of the team in midfield will come from Sterling and Alli behind Kane, also laughable to say Henderson isn't comfortable on the ball 

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I see Alli more in the David Platt mould, he isn't really that creative but as a midfielder who gets beyond the striker he is one of the best. And his technique at times is superb.

Sterling could be the "ace in the hole" but he is gonna find the quality of ball from the players behind him very different to the quality he is used to at club level.

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11 hours ago, Baptista_8 said:

It's amazing how Barkley and Wilshere's careers are turning out.

Weird to think Barkley was touted as our next potential world class player not long ago and here he is not even getting into the England back up list.

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9 minutes ago, gavo01 said:

Weird to think Barkley was touted as our next potential world class player not long ago and here he is not even getting into the England back up list.

He's not even getting into the Chelsea back up list atm. Serves him right for being a money grabbing **** tbh.

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1 minute ago, Rocky Rockstar said:

He's not even getting into the Chelsea back up list atm. Serves him right for being a money grabbing **** tbh.

He wouldn't be the first player to have his head turned by pound signs, unfortunately he's another Shaun Wright Phillips. Got lauded at his last club, moved on and flatlined. 

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Didn't Barkley get injured again? I think after that they just wrote him off for the season as they didn't have much realistically to play for. Let him recover slowly so that he is in a good place injury wise for pre-season.

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People reckon it's because he wasn't Conte's signing that he's leaving him out purely due to stubbornness.

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14 hours ago, Pukey said:

I'd be massively worried about Shelvey doing something incredibly stupid and getting sent off tbh.

I think the fact people want him says more about our general lack of CM options than anything else. He's been good but nothing overly special, though with what else is out there I don't blame people for wanting him. 

Hopefully the likes of Cook will be really top quality in a couple of years, I certainly have high hopes of him. 

He's not been booked in 6 months.

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4 minutes ago, given1legend said:

He's not been booked in 6 months.

So? He's still got a history of being remarkably stupid and he's not at the level where it's worth the risk. 

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1 minute ago, Pukey said:

So? He's still got a history of being remarkably stupid and he's not at the level where it's worth the risk. 

Maybe he's finally come of age under a good manager? That's what it's looked like. The last 6 months he's worked a lot harder defensively, cut out his petulance and is controlling games from a CM position.

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2 minutes ago, given1legend said:

Maybe he's finally come of age under a good manager? That's what it's looked like. The last 6 months he's worked a lot harder defensively, cut out his petulance and is controlling games from a CM position.

Maybe he has but I still wouldn't trust him at this stage. Pressure of a world cup for England is totally different to what he's had at Newcastle this season. 

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If Shelvey is still in good form and has genuinely turned a corner (I really rated him as a youngster) then he will be in the 2020 squad, but it's too much of a risk to take someone with 4 months good form, previous daft decisions and no caps in 3 years.

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40 minutes ago, Pukey said:

So? He's still got a history of being remarkably stupid and he's not at the level where it's worth the risk. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

 

I still cannot believe Kane didn't even get booked for that tackle :D He even takes the time to line up where he wants to plant his studs, ref is looking right at it and hasn't a clue what's happened. 

Second one I could've maybe seen it as an accident until I remember it's Alli and he's got a nasty habit of that. 

Yet referees are apparently wary of Sterling diving :D He dived when Kane planted the studs, honest! 

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1 hour ago, Barry Cartman said:

 

Can probably show clips of loads of players making horror tackles or being petulant. 

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7 hours ago, Barry Cartman said:

Bemused by some of these comments, he's clearly going to be playing 3 at the back, the creative part of the team in midfield will come from Sterling and Alli behind Kane, also laughable to say Henderson isn't comfortable on the ball 

Not comfortable on the ball was the wrong thing to say. I agree he's great at keeping possession. He's just not great in tight spaces, and neither is Alli. Sterling is gonna have a lot of responsibility on his shoulders, although Welbeck and Delph are good in tight situations tbf.

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21 hours ago, theonets said:

What're we looking at? Henderson-Dier as the pivot? Lingard is too attacking to play with either of the two, and Henderson is a great, great player, but he can't create play the way Wilshere type playmakers can

This basically.

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1 hour ago, Baptista_8 said:

This basically.

Yes but depends if Southgate is after his centre midfielder to be really good at creating occasional moments of creative brilliant or provide a reliable 90 mins of pressing and recycling possession?

In this system the latter wins every time. Of course Shelvey and Wilshere are better than Henderson at some things, but Henderson is better than both at most of the things Southgate needs from his midfielders.

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Thats the first time I've seen the Kane challenge on Sterling somehow. Absolute madness that he wasn't retrospectively banned. But of course its Saint Harry.

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5 hours ago, Mr Adam said:

Yes but depends if Southgate is after his centre midfielder to be really good at creating occasional moments of creative brilliant or provide a reliable 90 mins of pressing and recycling possession?

In this system the latter wins every time. Of course Shelvey and Wilshere are better than Henderson at some things, but Henderson is better than both at most of the things Southgate needs from his midfielders.

Has anybody suggested them over Hendo? Think the main argument is that they should be in the squad. We don't seem to have a Plan B in the squad, it's all players that do 1 job then people that play multiple positions as back up. If we're struggling to break Panama down after 60 minutes I'd rather bring on Shelvey or Wilshere than Delph or even Cahill with Stones moving into midfield.

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2 hours ago, DeafParrot said:

Thats the first time I've seen the Kane challenge on Sterling somehow. Absolute madness that he wasn't retrospectively banned. But of course its Saint Harry.

I have no idea why he is considered a saint. Dude looks like one of those henchman/lacky types from Lock Stock etc

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Would love to feel sorry for him but the truth is that he underperforms in an England shirt anyway. Now he's doing that at club level as well so can't really argue any case for him, unlike Wilshere.

Edited by Baptista_8

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53 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

Would love to feel sorry for him but the truth is that he underperforms in an England shirt anyway. Now he's doing that at club level as well so can't really argue any case for him, unlike Wilshere.

Yea, it's a sense of entitlement.  He's an elite sportsman who's been massively under-performing or incapable of performing at the required level for the past 2 years.  

You'd hope that he'd understand that.  It's not like it's even up for debate, his stats and performances point to him not being in the top 3, even top 5 (more) English goal keepers.   Just pig headed and arrogant to think he deserves to be in the squad based on his past.  

 

 

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11 hours ago, given1legend said:

Has anybody suggested them over Hendo? Think the main argument is that they should be in the squad. We don't seem to have a Plan B in the squad, it's all players that do 1 job then people that play multiple positions as back up. If we're struggling to break Panama down after 60 minutes I'd rather bring on Shelvey or Wilshere than Delph or even Cahill with Stones moving into midfield.

Sorry don't disagree with you at all. My point was more aimed at the plethora of folk I've seen on twitter saying Henderson shouldn't be anywhere near the squad / isn't as good as WIlshere and Shelvey etc.

I'd definitely have had one of them in above Delph. Not both though. I like RLC.

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I think both Wilshere and Hart's statements have come across like entitled prats who have grown up since a young age thinking they were going to get 100 caps for England and be legends.

They can be disappointed and post statements saying so, without both putting subliminal or more pointed digs saying they disagree with the selection.

Edited by Mr Adam

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Pep broke Hart. :D

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21 minutes ago, Mr Adam said:

I think both Wilshere and Hart's statements have come across like entitled prats

Also shows Southgate has made completely the right decision to keep them out anyway imo.

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The mentality of England players living off the past has been needing to stop for a long time, this is the 1st time I can remember where a big name player has been dropped because they haven't been performing for a while, should have happened more often in the past 

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59 minutes ago, Lucas Weatherby said:

Also shows Southgate has made completely the right decision to keep them out anyway imo.

Wouldn't say Jack's comments are that bad at all? Obv he's gutted (who wouldn't be) but he makes it clear he respects the managers decision and wishes everyone all the best? That seems reasonable to me. Hart on the other hand....

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Hart's comments are exactly the same are those who say Welbeck/Rooney deserve a spot in previous tournaments because they scored a bunch of goals against the minnows of European football in qualifying 

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19 minutes ago, Rocky Rockstar said:

Wouldn't say Jack's comments are that bad at all?

Not sure. To me he comes across as whining and entitled to me saying he believes he can, throwing doubt on the selection choice even though he accepts it. 

Why can't he just wish the team the best, than having sly digs at the manager?

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Hart said he knows what he brings to the team. Either he's admitting that he's made mistake after mistake even in an England shirt or he's even more deluded than he seems.

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I think some people read too much into comments because they dislike the player.

I don't think Wilshire's comments are that unreasonable. He said he felt fit, strong and sharp and thought he deserved to be in the squad. What's wrong with that? You can disagree with that but it's not like he's digging the knife into the manager. People also forget that his contract is up this summer. Whether he stays at Arsenal or not - he's starting the PR game to try and convince people that his injury problems are behind him.

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52 minutes ago, Tony85 said:

I think some people read too much into comments because they dislike the player.

I don't think Wilshire's comments are that unreasonable. He said he felt fit, strong and sharp and thought he deserved to be in the squad. What's wrong with that? You can disagree with that but it's not like he's digging the knife into the manager. People also forget that his contract is up this summer. Whether he stays at Arsenal or not - he's starting the PR game to try and convince people that his injury problems are behind him.

He hasn't done anything majorly wrong no. My point is that you can be disappointed and privately think that without deciding the best thing to do is tell the world you disagree.

A statement simply saying "I'm absolutely gutted, I really wanted to go but respect the manager's decision" would have been absolutely fine. Instead he chose to list the reasons why he should have gone. Doing that and then saying you respect the decision completely undermines the latter point. It reads like he's only saying he respects the decision to stop his post from coming across even more petulantly.

Again, not majorly wrong and hardly makes him a bad person, just not entirely helpful.

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1 hour ago, Tony85 said:

I think some people read too much into comments because they dislike the player.

I don't think Wilshire's comments are that unreasonable. He said he felt fit, strong and sharp and thought he deserved to be in the squad. What's wrong with that? You can disagree with that but it's not like he's digging the knife into the manager. People also forget that his contract is up this summer. Whether he stays at Arsenal or not - he's starting the PR game to try and convince people that his injury problems are behind him.

Agreed to an extent, but I don't think he was necessarily left out due to his ability, nor his ability to play enough matches. I'm sure I read somewhere that Southgate thought he looked off the pace at the friendlies a few months back, and that would make him unsuitable for the way we want to play (presumably high pressing, lots of running, etc). That sounds a pretty reasonable excuse to leave him out imo, he's not that sort of player.

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53 minutes ago, Mr Adam said:

He hasn't done anything majorly wrong no. My point is that you can be disappointed and privately think that without deciding the best thing to do is tell the world you disagree.

A statement simply saying "I'm absolutely gutted, I really wanted to go but respect the manager's decision" would have been absolutely fine. Instead he chose to list the reasons why he should have gone. Doing that and then saying you respect the decision completely undermines the latter point. It reads like he's only saying he respects the decision to stop his post from coming across even more petulantly.

Again, not majorly wrong and hardly makes him a bad person, just not entirely helpful.

I don't think either of them have done a thing wrong, especially Wilshere. 

When you listen to all of Southgates comments about Wilshere throughout the season, Wilshere has done everything that he asked for in order to make the team, then hasn't been picked anyway. It must be absolutely gutting. Theres absolutely no doubt he should be in the squad. 

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I think by Wilshere's standards that was a pretty decent statement, possibly says more about him, but he could've done a lot worse. Think he comes across a bit entitled the way he words it as if because he's been fit he should go, which isn't true, not like he's Lampard, Gerrard or Scholes. Although tbf Southgate did say if he could show he was fit and playing week in, week out he'd be called up again, which was a dumb thing to say as he then called up loads of players who were injury prone or not playing. But tbf to him he has left Lallana out. 

I think Joe Hart's statement sort of shows why he shouldn't have gone even as a back-up option. He's a very loud character and I think with the Pickford/Butland thing already causing some questions, having him as the 3rd wheel acting a tit in training would be another unneeded distraction for those lads. Nick Pope still strong competition for them but can't see him being a bad influence in that way. Pope undoubtedly deserves to be there too imo. 

Edited by PaulHartman71

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50 minutes ago, DeafParrot said:

I don't think either of them have done a thing wrong, especially Wilshere. 

When you listen to all of Southgates comments about Wilshere throughout the season, Wilshere has done everything that he asked for in order to make the team, then hasn't been picked anyway. It must be absolutely gutting. Theres absolutely no doubt he should be in the squad. 

Doing everything he was told doesn’t entitle him to go - that’s the point. He comes across a bit entitled thinking that him thinking he’s fit and a wonderful player means he should go.

Thats all.

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He's right, his ability should entitle him to go if fit. You can't say any of the players in that deeper midfield role are better players than him.

He's always going to believe he can make a difference to the squad when he sees the players ahead of him.

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3 minutes ago, DeafParrot said:

He's right, his ability should entitle him to go if fit. You can't say any of the players in that deeper midfield role are better players than him.

He's always going to believe he can make a difference to the squad when he sees the players ahead of him.

Even if that was true (it's not), there's a difference between thinking it, knowing it and saying it.

By the way I think he should have gone above Delph. This isn't me going boo hoo I hate Jack. He's a local hero.

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