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England's World Cup 23

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Would've maybe taken Bertrand over Rose, but other than that can't see anything glaringly wrong with it. Think we have some great players to go forward with if we can get set-up well and be solid at the back. Main issue is the GK one imo. 

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12 minutes ago, scott MUFC said:

whats with all the defenders? need more midfielders

Looks pretty obvious he prefers to play 3 at the back 

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2 hours ago, Baptista_8 said:

Alexander-Arnold, not been convinced by him at all...hmmm...

Not like you to just **** on a young English talent 

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4 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

Not like you to just **** on a young English talent 

Not a patch on a certain slick haired brummie.

*insert yawn*

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Hart such a terrible arsehole.

Blaming Moyes for him not making the England squad, citing Moyes leaving him out of the final 3 games of the season. It's probably got more to do with him being an absolute shower of ***** and an England manager finally having the balls to drop him long past due. If Hart had been any good and still dropped for the last 3 games to give another keeper some game time, he'd still have been in the squad. If Hart had played the last 3 games, he'd have been just as **** as he has been for a good while and wouldn't have been picked.

Blaming it on Moyes is just the cowards way of looking to blame his awfulness on anyone but himself.

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1 hour ago, DB08 said:

I think Alexander-Arnold is only in because of his versatility as he can cover multiple positions. May be a potential backup CM option as well, aside from being backup to Trippier at RWB.

I know in theory he covers basically every position on the pitch and got seriously talked about as a midfield option when Liverpool were desperately short in the centre, but has he actually played anywhere except right back above youth team level? Big ask if his first game of senior football in midfield is a first cap for the national side in a World Cup, especially when there's a couple of decent midfielders being left out for him.

Feels like he's in as the "wild card". If you want more flexibility you usually don't take a fourth choice right back! Especially not when the first two are some of the few  players whose fitness and quality isn't in doubt.

 

Gotta love the irony that Walcott, who once went to a World Cup despite being a young teenager even Arsene "I love young players" Wenger wouldn't give minutes off the bench to, now can't get into this England squad as one of the few experienced forward options whose fitness isn't a worry.

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He played one or two games in midfield towards the end of the season. Iirc, the ones against Stoke and Chelsea. Didn't really stand out though.

Looks likely that Walker will play RCB with Trippier likely being your first choice at RWB. Alexander-Arnold's passing range is fabulous for someone of his age and personally, I feel he would thrive in that position with Walker covering behind him. Also a decent set piece taker in case England need one.

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Its quite nice that for once theres only really Cahill in the squad thats there based on 'proven quality' and 'tournament experience'.

Welbeck maybe too.

As for the rest its pretty much fine but the midfield sadly misses Ox. Young probably deserves his spot but he's not inspiring. The other left backs have been woefully short of form but Rose is better than Bertrand.

I'd have kicked out Welbeck and Rose and brought Sessegnon who can cover LWB and the left forward positions and brought an extra CM (beg Milner).

But he's paid the big bucks so let's go win this bloody thing. :mad::D

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40 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

I know in theory he covers basically every position on the pitch and got seriously talked about as a midfield option when Liverpool were desperately short in the centre, but has he actually played anywhere except right back above youth team level? Big ask if his first game of senior football in midfield is a first cap for the national side in a World Cup, especially when there's a couple of decent midfielders being left out for him.

Feels like he's in as the "wild card". If you want more flexibility you usually don't take a fourth choice right back! Especially not when the first two are some of the few  players whose fitness and quality isn't in doubt.

 

Gotta love the irony that Walcott, who once went to a World Cup despite being a young teenager even Arsene "I love young players" Wenger wouldn't give minutes off the bench to, now can't get into this England squad as one of the few experienced forward options whose fitness isn't a worry.

Theo Walcott will retire having never played a minute of WC tournament football despite a call up at 17. :D

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I'm quite excited to have Young in. Not been a regular for us over the years, hopefully he'll have something to prove, and you can never question his attitude or determination on the pitch.

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1 hour ago, sebsy said:

Hart such a terrible arsehole.

Blaming Moyes for him not making the England squad, citing Moyes leaving him out of the final 3 games of the season. It's probably got more to do with him being an absolute shower of ***** and an England manager finally having the balls to drop him long past due. If Hart had been any good and still dropped for the last 3 games to give another keeper some game time, he'd still have been in the squad. If Hart had played the last 3 games, he'd have been just as **** as he has been for a good while and wouldn't have been picked.

Blaming it on Moyes is just the cowards way of looking to blame his awfulness on anyone but himself.

You got any quotes or just daily mail speculation?

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1 hour ago, DB08 said:

He played one or two games in midfield towards the end of the season. Iirc, the ones against Stoke and Chelsea. Didn't really stand out though.

Looks likely that Walker will play RCB with Trippier likely being your first choice at RWB. Alexander-Arnold's passing range is fabulous for someone of his age and personally, I feel he would thrive in that position with Walker covering behind him. Also a decent set piece taker in case England need one.

Shame he's not a regular left back really. If he was, then given the dubious form of our left backs there'd be a good case for him to start rather than a questionable case for him being in the squad. 

I did think Walker at centre back was an experiment to get two good right backs in the starting lineup (with possible tactical usefulness against Panama if they're so defensive you might as well have the central defenders overlapping) rather than the way England must play, regardless of who's available. But maybe not given this squad...

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I think Walker will make an excellent cb in a 3 cb system. It's not uncommon, most teams who go to 3 at the back seem to have one as a former full back. Chiellini, Azpilicuetta etc.

With a 3 cb system you need those on either side to still be able to defend on the flank, and against teams sitting back, having one of those CBs be able to overlap and have the fitness to get back if needed is so important. I'm excited about Walker in that position.

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6 hours ago, Golaxi said:

we are playing 3 at the back and passing out from the back. That is becoming more prevalent in the game now and unfortunately for Joe Hart and Chris Smalling they are now playing right at this time. Southgate made the right call and for all Pickford's mistakes or weak points he is good at passing out from the back and distribution, he is actually the best and it really helps the team. Thank god we are saying goodbye to constipated football in the boiling summer heat. 

Harsh to put Hart in the same line as Smalling. The former has been shocking. I know that's not your intent though.

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What's the starting 11 then? Guessing Pickford, Trippier, Walker, Stones, Jones, Rose if we're playing with 3 CBs and wing backs but then not 100% sure what goes on ahead of that. Figure Dier and Henderson will play, and obviously Kane, but who plays behind Kane? Surely you want Sterling in his best position after the season he's had?

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Pickford

Trippier, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Young

Henderson, Dier

Sterling, Kane, Lingard

No space for Vardy, Alli and Rashford is harsh but great options to have.

Edited by Haguey
Jones is ****

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3 minutes ago, Haguey said:

Pickford

Trippier, Walker, Stones, Jones, Young

Henderson, Dier

Sterling, Kane, Lingard

No space for Vardy, Alli and Rashford is harsh but great options to have.

If you got Stones to push forward a touch then you could swap Dier for Alli. The only problem would be getting Walker (who will naturally want to get forward) and Jones (idiot) to communicate properly and not leave a gap.

Walker as a centre back worries me to be honest.

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Far too many players in there for me that can play in 'multiple' positons, instead of being a specialist and a good one at that in one position. 

Squad just reflects what sort of person Southgate is. Hadn't Gomez been injured, would have been interesting to see who'd miss out. TAA? Cahill? Trippier? 

Can see the left side being our downfall as soon as we meet a competent side. Rose is out of form, Young is poor there, Delph isn't a left back, mixed in with potentially someone like Maguire on that side who's  a good defender but when being dragged out there leaves me covering my eyes. Teams are just going to overload that side. Just hope Sterling/Lingard/Vardy/Kane utterly smash it up top so it doesn't matter.

Edited by pearcey_90

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Starting XI for first two games:

Butland: Trippier, Walker, Stones, Maguire, Rose: Alli, Henderson: Lingard, Sterling, Kane

Belgium and on wards:

Butland: Walker, Jones, Stones, Maguire, Rose: Dier, Henderson: Sterling: Kane, Vardy

Feel against the 'tougher' sides we'd be better with Walker at wing back so we have more pace to break on counter, and Vardy in there too for sitting on last shoulder.

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Maybe my bias as an Arsenal fan is clouding my thoughts, but Wilshere has to be in, especially since there's no Lallana either.

 

What're we looking at? Henderson-Dier as the pivot? Lingard is too attacking to play with either of the two, and Henderson is a great, great player, but he can't create play the way Wilshere type playmakers can

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14 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

Maguire surely starts over Jones 

I forgot him :D

Yeah easily.

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Dull central midfielders, so we're set to be typically one-dimensional. That apart, it's pretty much all we've got. Part of me hopes Shelvey or Lallana sneak in at the expense of someone like Welbeck, Loftus-Cheek or TAA.

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Typical Southgate, a total bore so he picks a boring squad to play his boring tactics. 

That CM has no spark, no creativity at all. Why not take Wilshere, a lack of fitness is BS, play him in the friendlies, help with his fitness, could have been the player to bring something when you need a goal with 30 minutes to go.

Same with Shelvey, he's scared to bring him because of his previous, a different player to what he has selected. 

Basically both CMs sit back with the 3 defenders and hope the wing backs can provide enough for the 3 front men.

Won't be hard for other teams to work out how to stop them.

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Shelvey just brings something different, the same as Wilshere does, sometimes it's good to have a plan B. The CM players are just very much alike. 

I couldn't care less of course, you would think he could have dropped a defender and took a gamble with a more attacking CM though.

Edited by daylight

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21 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

Christ. When did Shelvey become the next Pirlo. Think people are going overboard with him. He's not been called up for 2 years. What were people expecting? 

Would he fit the system Southgate is playing? Probably not. And Southgate is clearly trying to develop a strong team understanding and familarity among the side and rightly or wrongly is going with what he knows. It's what we've all criticised England managers about in the past. Not serving the team first

Says a lot about the lack of creative English midfielders that Shelvey is being lauded so highly. He's been in great form recently, and recovered well from a shocking start to the season but if we had other options he wouldn't get a look in. 

I don't get the rhetoric about Southgate's boring brand of football. He might not be doing anything revolutionary, but in the last few games he's at least got us playing on the ground and going forward forward.  It's progressive and as much as we can expect with the players at his disposal. 

I don't even think he has a brand of football at England yet, sometimes we look great, other times really ordinary, but we can only judge him on results and after the world Cup. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Barry Cartman said:

Maguire surely starts over Jones 

I think he will pick Cahill. Maguire isn't really that good

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Can't really complain about that squad. It's about as good as it could have been. I think four wing backs is unnecessary when you have Walker in the squad as well. Would have left Young or Rose out for another midfielder or forward.

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7 hours ago, Baptista_8 said:

*massive yawn*

Pot Kettle Grealish.

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8 minutes ago, Astafjevs said:

I think he will pick Cahill. Maguire isn't really that good

Haven't seen him play in years but I remember him being very immobile (as well as a proper dirty thug) in League 1, amazed he's even in England contention.

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I'd be massively worried about Shelvey doing something incredibly stupid and getting sent off tbh.

I think the fact people want him says more about our general lack of CM options than anything else. He's been good but nothing overly special, though with what else is out there I don't blame people for wanting him. 

Hopefully the likes of Cook will be really top quality in a couple of years, I certainly have high hopes of him. 

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Squad is fine for me, you could replace the odd player here or there but it's not like we've left out anyone special so I say go with it.  Pleased overall and I think most fans are, no one expects anything apart from us having a good go hopefully and we'll just see what happens.

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1 minute ago, The Rebel MC said:

Squad is fine for me, you could replace the odd player here or there but it's not like we've left out anyone special so I say go with it.  Pleased overall and I think most fans are, no one expects anything apart from us having a good go hopefully and we'll just see what happens.

Agree with this, don't understand the (admittedly very few) people who seem really angry. I'd probably take Welbeck out for another CM but that's about it.

I sometimes feel like people expect him to name 23 world class players which we simply don't have, we've maybe 2 or 3.

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Agree with the two above, when you're arguing about players 21-23 the bulk of the squad is probably pretty solid. Delighted to see RLC in there, would have liked to have seen Cook in the 23 too (certainly over Shelvey and Wilshere) but it's a pretty promising squad imo.

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At least this year nobody has moaned about the 3rd choice keeper. Swear that happens every time.

You are never gonna get a squad that everyone is 100% happy with. I'm sure German fans out there are moaning about certain call ups and they are gonna comfortable win the bloody thing.

I sometimes think people forget Southgate is trying to build a team that can do well. Not just selecting the current 23 flavour of the month players. 

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good luck to England I hope you have a good run if we dont win it I hope you do 

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1 minute ago, skybluedave said:

At least this year nobody has moaned about the 3rd choice keeper. Swear that happens every time.

You are never gonna get a squad that everyone is 100% happy with. I'm sure German fans out there are moaning about certain call ups and they are gonna comfortable win the bloody thing.

I sometimes think people forget Southgate is trying to build a team that can do well. Not just selecting the current 23 flavour of the month players. 

That's a good point as well. I've criticised Southgate a fair amount but he's trying to build something and I get what he's going for. I think as long as we qualify from the group I'm happy for him to stay on until the next Euros (assuming we qualify) to see where it goes.

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Walker at cb worries me. Against lesser teams it will be fine but when he comes up against decent players they will almost certainly exploit the fact he doesn’t normally/ever play there and drag him out of position. 

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44 minutes ago, kingrobbo said:

good luck to England I hope you have a good run if we dont win it I hope you do 

Did you change your country too? :lol:

Thought you were from the UK?

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2 minutes ago, Bliss Seeker said:

Did you change your country too? :lol:

Thought you were from the UK?

sure you have asked this before and I told you I was born in Germany mate:D

 

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We don't have many people in midfield comfortable on the ball do we. Delph is to be fair and can drive with it, but ignoring the likes of Wilshere and Lallana I don't agree with. Really hope I'm wrong and that Southgate has a solid plan, but the squad doesn't look as though it'll be fun to watch to me.

It's amazing how Barkley and Wilshere's careers are turning out. Both more than good enough ability wise to be established in this England side by now, just not working out for them :( Maybe the physical side will always be Wilshere's downfall.

Edited by Baptista_8

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23 minutes ago, kingrobbo said:

sure you have asked this before and I told you I was born in Germany mate:D

 

Yup, now I remember!

 

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7 minutes ago, Bliss Seeker said:

Yup, now I remember!

 

wait until your my age :kriss:

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3 hours ago, pago said:

Walker at cb worries me. Against lesser teams it will be fine but when he comes up against decent players they will almost certainly exploit the fact he doesn’t normally/ever play there and drag him out of position. 

Ehhh, wouldn't worry too much, his positioning at RB is shocking too. He's just blessed with incredible athletic ability and can make up for that. He's very good at making up for his mistakes - of which he commits a fair few it must be said. Not a lot, but enough that you notice after a full season of watching him. Prior to this season I thought he was the best RB in the Prem and now I'm more convinced than ever of that, but I've also seen his weaknesses which I hadn't really noticed before. Positioning and concentration are lacking at times, but his best asset is his pace and attacking movement. 

I think him at CB is a waste, it's taking away the best part of his game which is his attacking movement. Keep Sterling and Walker playing down the same side, England will benefit from that. 

As for Trent AA, he's an immense young talent and should be the natural heir to Walker at RB/RWB for England, plus he can play in CM and is great for his dead ball striking. Makes sense to take him now. Next week he's playing in a Champions League Final. Lack od experience means nothing to the lad anymore. He's going to be a world class full back one day and it makes sense to get him involved sooner rather than later. Even if he is back up to Walker for the next 2/3 major tournaments, he'll benefit from it. Trippier won't ever overtake Walker/Trent (by the time he's good enough and Walker needs replacing). Don't bother with him at all unless the aforementioned get injured. 

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Love the idea that Jordan Henderson is petrified of the ball and runs away every time he sees it.

He’s as “comfortable on the ball” as Shelvey and Wilshere, he’s just better at keeping it than both of them as will play less adventurous passes / won’t dribble it up to the defenders feet like Wilshere.

The idea that the CM pivot is the one who plays the adventurous passes is quite out dated at the moment. It’s so clear that the strategy is for CM to press and win possession and get the ball out to the four forward players or the two wing backs. That’s 6 players to attack with.

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