Man U Always Dominant

[PinkSpeedos]

Hi everyone, 

So I am four and a half seasons into my save and I've noticed that Man U have been totally dominant throughout the entire save. They've won every league title since I started, most of the domestic cups and are consistent in Europe too. 

 

In my current season, I've lost just 4 games 27 and yet I'm 16 points behind them, I'm not the only one, 2nd placed Arsenal are 14 points behind them. 

 

I went back and looked at the previous season, Man U have walked the league every year, 10-20 points ahead every time. In my current season they have been beaten just once in all competitions (league, Carabao Cup, FA Cup and Champions League), it's February. 

 

I then noticed that the same was happening on the saves that some of the YouTubers I watch are doing. So I took this to a Facebook forum and see what other people were experiencing. The vast majority on there were seeing the exact same thing. One said he was in the year 2040 and that there was only 3 seasons in the past 23 that Man U didn't win. 

 

I'm just wondering what people here have experienced with regards to Man U? Is this something that is happening regularly across most people's saves? It's got to the point where I'm wondering whether I'll ever be able to win a league title or even a cup because they are just that dominant. 

 

I didn't want to take this to the 'bugs' section of the forum because I'm not entirely sure it is a bug, just strange that so many of us are experiencing the same thing with the same team being dominant.

 

(As a side note, Man City, Liverpool and Spurs seem to struggle in most people's saves).

[Neotropolis]

I find similar situations with Juventus, Bayern Munich and PSG in their respective leagues. 

I've not had a save where Man Utd have walked the leagues. Which database are you using?

1 hour ago, PinkSpeedos said:

(As a side note, Man City, Liverpool and Spurs seem to struggle in most people's saves).

In one save, Tottenham got relegated and Man City narrowly avoided.

[Woolly]

In most of my English saves it's usually Tottenham or Arsenal who dominate for the first 5-6 seasons, however, Chelsea and Man City are more yoyo clubs going from top 4 to mid-table from one season to the next. The biggest surprise for me is Liverpool on at least one of my saves they have been relegated. I'm sure it's not a bug in the game just a case of the strongest wealthiest sides doing well with the odd exception.  

[isignedupfornorealreason]

8 hours ago, PinkSpeedos said:

 

I didn't want to take this to the 'bugs' section of the forum because I'm not entirely sure it is a bug, just strange that so many of us are experiencing the same thing with the same team being dominant.

This seems to get mentioned every year. But, United aren't exactly a poor team IRL, having defeated pretty much everyone in the Premier League, and come 2nd to a very good City side this season.

 

The over-performers in my experience have always been Arsenal and Spurs, two teams overloaded with exceptional players who seem to perform far more consistently than they do IRL.

City, or Pep Guardiola, always seem to underperform - I don't know why, most likely the way he sets his team up, but I usually always find his teams drop off the pace quite rapidly.

[PinkSpeedos]

18 hours ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

This seems to get mentioned every year. But, United aren't exactly a poor team IRL, having defeated pretty much everyone in the Premier League, and come 2nd to a very good City side this season.

Agreed, they are a top club with great wealth but so are City, Arsenal etc. It doesn't really explain why they seem to be so dominant in most people's saves. 

 

There shouldn't really be that kind of pattern. We aren't just talking about consistently winning things but winning league titles by 15-20 quite regularly.

 

What is it that Man U are doing in a lot of these saves that clubs like City aren't? 

 

Surely there should be some more variety, as there is in real life. The save becomes a little tiring when one team dominates every single year. 

[forameuss]

I for one am absolutely shocked that a team like Man Utd might dominate in saves.  Shocked.

No-one can say "most people's saves" either.  Of the tens-or-hundreds-of-thousands of saves that get created, there is no way you can claim a majority based on your experiences and a few people on the internet. 

[PinkSpeedos]

3 hours ago, forameuss said:

I for one am absolutely shocked that a team like Man Utd might dominate in saves.  Shocked.

No-one can say "most people's saves" either.  Of the tens-or-hundreds-of-thousands of saves that get created, there is no way you can claim a majority based on your experiences and a few people on the internet. 

When I said 'most people' I was referring to all of those that I have spoken to about it.

 

You are absolutely right that it's a small sample, I'm not denying that, but isn't it a little odd that in the FM communities I'm part of and the YouTubers I am watching, many of those people are experiencing the same thing? 

 

I don't believe that any one team, Man U or otherwise, should be dominating anyone's saves over a 30 year period. There should be some variety with a few of the top teams fighting it out for the top spot each season. 

 

There also shouldn't be one team running away with the league every year, how often does the winning team have 20 points more than 2nd place and lose just one game all season across four competitions in real life? 

 

There must be something about the way Man U are set up on the game which means they are dominating a lot of people's saves. There must be something about the way that Liverpool and City are set up that means they are often slipping down the table and seeing Pep/Klopp sacked within a couple of years (something else that multiple people have seen happening in their saves).

 

Again, I'm not saying it's a bug, I'm not even necessarily complaining about it, it's just interesting to see it happening with such regularity. 

[enigmatic]

Man Utd have dominated over a 30 year period IRL. City literally just finished with 19 points more than second place. Neither really strike me as unusual outcomes. 

[PinkSpeedos]

2 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Man Utd have dominated over a 30 year period IRL. City literally just finished with 19 points more than second place. Neither really strike me as unusual outcomes. 

City did it in one year. Not 5 years in a row.

Man U have won 13 of the 25 Prem seasons and in the last 6 years, there has been 4 different winners. 

That's very different from what I'm experiencing and what many others I'm talking to are experiencing.

I love this forum but I feel like if you say anything that is slightly critical of the game, everyone gets defensive. 

There is nothing in real life from the start of the 2017/18 season that suggests Man U should go on and dominate for the next 20 years in game. 

 

I'm just wondering what it is about them that is making them so consistent in many people's saves. 

[enigmatic]

1 minute ago, PinkSpeedos said:

City did it in one year. Not 5 years in a row.

Man U have won 13 of the 25 Prem seasons and in the last 6 years, there has been 4 different winners. 

That's very different from what I'm experiencing and what many others I'm talking to are experiencing.

I love this forum but I feel like if you say anything that is slightly critical of the game, everyone gets defensive. 

There is nothing in real life from the start of the 2017/18 season that suggests Man U should go on and dominate for the next 20 years in game. 

 

I'm just wondering what it is about them that is making them so consistent in many people's saves. 

You had one save and something happened. Then you posted in a forum asking "do Man Utd win a lot" and some people said yes, which is hardly surprising because the game would have been very poorly implemented if nobody had a save where Man Utd won a lot. 

What it is about Man Utd that makes them very consistent in some saves is they have a good squad and a lot of money, which makes it very easy in a football simulation to acquire a better squad and more money. FM18 engine might favour Mourinho's directness too, but I'm sure you'll find people who have very successful Man Utd teams without him.

I love this forum, but people have complained every year about Man Utd winning the title, and in more than half of those years Man Utd have actually won the title, and it really isn't "getting defensive" to point this out.

[westy8chimp]

3 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

FM18 engine might favour Mourinho's directness too

And the flip can be said of Guardiola's City ... who, in all honesty, do seem to fail more often than not in my limited observations.

Thread has some underlying significance... just needs some data to back it up. The ME does favour certain tactics (remove the player from this line of thought completely). I find pretty much every FM has a few managers that tend to do well and a few that don't. It's not something I care strongly about in my saves as I tend to focus on my own team than which AI club is doing well...

Squad building probably comes into it as well... Chelsea tend to fail on mine, quite often 5 or 6 seasons in i'll notice they don't have a single striker in the squad ... they have about 12 wingers... but still play 532 so the wingers are playing centrally!

[enigmatic]

2 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Squad building probably comes into it as well... Chelsea tend to fail on mine, quite often 5 or 6 seasons in i'll notice they don't have a single striker in the squad ... they have about 12 wingers... but still play 532 so the wingers are playing centrally!

van Gaal actually tried that squad building approach with Man Utd. Di Maria didn't really take to centre mid.

The real problem is surely Chelsea not being extremely keen to fire Conte...

[HUNT3R]

No one seems to take into account whether leagues are loaded and whether they're running in full detail. Both will affect these results.

[PinkSpeedos]

1 hour ago, enigmatic said:

You had one save and something happened. Then you posted in a forum asking "do Man Utd win a lot" and some people said yes, which is hardly surprising because the game would have been very poorly implemented if nobody had a save where Man Utd won a lot. 

What it is about Man Utd that makes them very consistent in some saves is they have a good squad and a lot of money, which makes it very easy in a football simulation to acquire a better squad and more money. FM18 engine might favour Mourinho's directness too, but I'm sure you'll find people who have very successful Man Utd teams without him.

I love this forum, but people have complained every year about Man Utd winning the title, and in more than half of those years Man Utd have actually won the title, and it really isn't "getting defensive" to point this out.

The question I posed was not "do Man U win a lot." You're massively oversimplifying my initial comments. 

Are you honestly saying that Man U winning the league by 15-20 points almost every season, in many people's saves is something that absolutely should be happening? And not just the league, but domestic cups and in Europe too. 

I don't buy the "they have loads of money" argument, City are just as rich, if not richer, so why aren't they capable of building a squad to rival Man U? 

The fact that a lot of people I'm speaking to are experiencing the same thing in their saves means there must be something to it. I highly doubt it's deliberate, I'm simply wondering why it's happening. 

[rdbayly]

On close inspection I do feel that for several releases, the attributes of Man Utd players (especially Paul Pogba) have been higher than they should be if using the reality of the previous season as a performance benchmark. There is no way on earth this joker is a better passer and has a better first touch than Kevin De Bruyne.

The current football landscape dictates that when a powerful club loses out on the title, they invest vast amounts on players and staff to wrestle it back. There are simply too many rich clubs for any single one to dominate in the current climate. This must be hard to simulate, because all I personally see in save after save is this: 

  

This is my current save, and you can probably add another 4 or 5 titles in a row after this before I get bored of them thrashing everyone.

[Neotropolis]

55 minutes ago, PinkSpeedos said:

Are you honestly saying that Man U winning the league by 15-20 points almost every season, in many people's saves is something that absolutely should be happening? And not just the league, but domestic cups and in Europe too. 

I don't buy the "they have loads of money" argument, City are just as rich, if not richer, so why aren't they capable of building a squad to rival Man U? 

The fact that a lot of people I'm speaking to are experiencing the same thing in their saves means there must be something to it. I highly doubt it's deliberate, I'm simply wondering why it's happening. 

Man City have just won the title by 19 points, so yes it can happen.

When it comes to the rich clubs, they can spend just as much as the others. Say city spend £150mil on new players? Man Utd can match that so, logically speaking, if Man Utd are winning the league by 15-20 points and they can match or exceed their rivals when it comes to spending, why shouldn't they still be winning the title by 15-20 points? They are improving at the same rate as their rivals so they'll constantly be that far above them. That's likely why they can't build a squad to rival Man Utd.

However if you don't agree with the above, let's take the flip side that City spend £400mil on new players and Man Utd spend the same £150mil in the previous example. Money doesn't always guarantee success. To take a real life example, AC Milan have recently got new owners and spent a ton of money to improve their squad to match that of Juventus. However, with one game remaining in this year's Serie A, Juventus are 31 points clear of AC Milan despite AC Milan spending £174.15mil to Juventus' £138.06mil. In fact AC Milan are worse of this season as last year, they finished 28 points behind winners Juventus. 

[rdbayly]

@PinkSpeedos is clearly referring to, and quite rightly questioning, dominant sequences of titles by a single club. Look at the evidence; nobody has retained the title in nearly a decade:

 

 

 

[PinkSpeedos]

44 minutes ago, Neotropolis said:

Man City have just won the title by 19 points, so yes it can happen.

When it comes to the rich clubs, they can spend just as much as the others. Say city spend £150mil on new players? Man Utd can match that so, logically speaking, if Man Utd are winning the league by 15-20 points and they can match or exceed their rivals when it comes to spending, why shouldn't they still be winning the title by 15-20 points? They are improving at the same rate as their rivals so they'll constantly be that far above them. That's likely why they can't build a squad to rival Man Utd.

However if you don't agree with the above, let's take the flip side that City spend £400mil on new players and Man Utd spend the same £150mil in the previous example. Money doesn't always guarantee success. To take a real life example, AC Milan have recently got new owners and spent a ton of money to improve their squad to match that of Juventus. However, with one game remaining in this year's Serie A, Juventus are 31 points clear of AC Milan despite AC Milan spending £174.15mil to Juventus' £138.06mil. In fact AC Milan are worse of this season as last year, they finished 28 points behind winners Juventus. 

I'm sorry but are you seriously saying that clubs like City can't rival the spending of Man U? Or that the likes of Chelsea can rival it? 

 

In real life, if clubs saw Man U investing heavily, they would invest to match, thus making for a competitive league.

 

Yes Man City have done it THIS year. That's ONE season. What we are seeing is Man U doing it in game season after season after season. 

 

That's my point. Why is this happening? Why are Man U dominating a lot of people saves? What is it about them, because it isn't money, there are a couple of clubs that can rival the spending of Man U. So what is it? 

[PinkSpeedos]

9 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

@PinkSpeedos is clearly referring to, and quite rightly questioning, dominant sequences of titles by a single club. Look at the evidence; nobody has retained the title in nearly a decade:

 

 

 

Thank you. People keep pointing out City this year but that's one season. 

The past 6 years has seen 4 different winners (in real life). As you have pointed out, nobody has retained the title in 10 years, but what a lot of people are seeing in game is Man U (and possibly other clubs) dominating for years on end. And not just winning the league, but walking it every year. 

 

But this is what happens on this forum, when you question the game or point out a slight issue, everyone jumps on you and gets defensive. 

[herne79]

On ‎13‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 10:05, PinkSpeedos said:

I didn't want to take this to the 'bugs' section of the forum because I'm not entirely sure it is a bug, just strange that so many of us are experiencing the same thing with the same team being dominant.

Just upload your save to the server and open a thread in the forum .  It may or may not be a bug.  There may or may not be something for SI to tweak.  Only SI will be able to tell and they won't be able to do that unless you - and anyone else who may experience a similar issue - uploads their save and opens a thread.

One small note: 4.5 seasons is a bit of a short time and not a very large sample.  Maybe save the game under a second file name and holiday for 10 or 15 years?  See what sort of results you get and if it still looks wonky then open a thread in the Bugs section.

2 minutes ago, PinkSpeedos said:

But this is what happens on this forum, when you question the game or point out a slight issue, everyone jumps on you and gets defensive. 

Maybe, maybe not.  People are quite free to express a difference of opinion though which is quite different from being defensive.

[Geordieboy52]

I'm playing a Scottish game but looked at transfers in summer between 1st and 2nd season.  This is their transfer activity!

[alanschu14]

In my game Man Utd won the first three EPL titles.

But the first two seasons they won it on goal differential, with Arsenal in 2018 and and Man City in 2019. They won again in 2020 with a 5 point lead over Man City.

In 2021 they finished 5th, 2022 was 4th, 2023 was 2nd, and 2024 was 3rd.

They won Champions League in 2020 and 2023 (PSG did it twice as well).  Though Tottenham beat them in 2018.

Nothing overly unusual, but I do think that Mourinho led clubs do pretty well (I found this in FM17 too). Mourinho is at PSG now, although the two Champions League titles they won came before he arrived so it's not just that.  But they have crushed Ligue 1 since he joined (also since I left to join Bundesliga). He's only lost 4 games (two seasons with 2, and 1 undefeated season) in his 3 seasons there

That said PSG is also a strong club. But nothing overly "weird" in my game IMO.

[PinkSpeedos]

13 hours ago, herne79 said:

Just upload your save to the server and open a thread in the forum .  It may or may not be a bug.  There may or may not be something for SI to tweak.  Only SI will be able to tell and they won't be able to do that unless you - and anyone else who may experience a similar issue - uploads their save and opens a thread.

One small note: 4.5 seasons is a bit of a short time and not a very large sample.  Maybe save the game under a second file name and holiday for 10 or 15 years?  See what sort of results you get and if it still looks wonky then open a thread in the Bugs section.

I'm planning on doing the holiday thing with my current save (on a new file obviously) and also trying it with a couple of new saves where I'm employed at clubs abroad and domestically as well as starting with no job. 

 

Will take a while but be interesting to see what the results are. 

 

I genuinely don't think it is a bug, there is just something either about Man U, or Mourinho as a manager, that lends itself to long term success. On the face of it, that's easy, Man U are a top club who have a long history of success. Mourinho is a manager who wins, it's what he does.

 

It just feels as though that's amplified in game somehow. It's possible that it's more of an issue of the other teams not matching Man U, rather than them being overly successful. 

[HUNT3R]

5 minutes ago, PinkSpeedos said:

I'm planning on doing the holiday thing with my current save (on a new file obviously) and also trying it with a couple of new saves where I'm employed at clubs abroad and domestically as well as starting with no job. 

In both, make note of whether the league was loaded and also whether match were running in full detail or not.

[herne79]

23 minutes ago, PinkSpeedos said:

I genuinely don't think it is a bug

Yeh, it may not be.  It may just be a case of Man Utd + Mourinho = overpowered and needs a small tweak.  It may be nothing at all and in the million different possibilities that there are across so many users with different saves that you and some others have collectively noticed similar results which look odd.

Thanks for running some holiday tests and report back anything which you think looks wrong to the Bugs Forum - persuade others to do the same if you can.

[metallimuse]

My save also has Man Utd smashing it ridiculously! I'm in 2041 and I think only 3 years Utd haven't won the Premiership in all those years. They've also won quadruples a few times as well and constantly win the Champions League. It's proper silly. Will get a screen grab later when I'm home.

[Stevicus]

A little different for me, I'm into the fifth season. Chelsea won the first three, City the next and I'm about to lead Liverpool to the next title. United have been struggling to make top 4 every year with Spurs and Arsenal pipping them to the top 4

[alanschu14]

5 hours ago, Stevicus said:

A little different for me, I'm into the fifth season. Chelsea won the first three, City the next and I'm about to lead Liverpool to the next title. United have been struggling to make top 4 every year with Spurs and Arsenal pipping them to the top 4

It could be a reflection of "teams that get success early are able to maintain that success" due to things like money, reputation, etc?

[rdbayly]

It is also hard for a game to replicate the shortcomings of a team full of individual talent, yet fail to function as an effective unit when it matters most. This is the reality of Man Utd right now.

On the game you can pretty much buy anyone, throw them together, wait for tactical familiarity to hit fluid and play like Brazil 74.

[Neotropolis]

21 hours ago, PinkSpeedos said:

I'm sorry but are you seriously saying that clubs like City can't rival the spending of Man U? Or that the likes of Chelsea can rival it? 

I never said they couldn't. I said that it doesn't guarantee success. 

 

21 hours ago, PinkSpeedos said:

That's my point. Why is this happening? Why are Man U dominating a lot of people saves? What is it about them, because it isn't money, there are a couple of clubs that can rival the spending of Man U. So what is it? 

IRL, Man Utd dominated the Premier League for the first 20 years of it's existence. In fact, the Premier League is 25 Season's old and Man Utd have won it 13 times, that's more than all the other teams combined.

I'd likely say it's reputation. Big players want to join big named clubs. 

I remember when Van Gaal took over after the 2014 World Cup. Man Utd signed Di Maria and Falcao despite not qualifying for the Champions League. Yes they weren't great signings, but they were big big names. The reputation of the club said it all really.

[rdbayly]

3 minutes ago, Neotropolis said:

In fact, the Premier League is 25 Season's old and Man Utd have won it 13 times, that's more than all the other teams combined.

Fair point, however the game prides itself on taking its points of reference from the reality of the most recent season prior to release. Man Utd have failed to win the title or the champions league for 5 years now, therefore can be considered in a slump. If anything, Man City and Chelsea should be the teams achieving title streaks if current reputation and attribute data was sound.  

[metallimuse]

Ok not as bad as I said earlier but out of 23 seasons Utd have failed to win the league only 6 times.

All in all, Utd have won 61 trophies in 23 seasons in my save including Charity Shields, Club World Championship, Euro Super Cup and the domestic normal 3.

[ZoDiAC_]

They've been relegated in my game!

[PinkSpeedos]

21 hours ago, alanschu14 said:

It could be a reflection of "teams that get success early are able to maintain that success" due to things like money, reputation, etc?

This is an interesting point actually. As I'm noticing that those who don't have Man U as the dominant team, have someone else who is dominant (such as Chelsea). It could be that whoever grabs that first title is looked on favourably in terms of reputation etc so it is easier for them to sign the bigger, better players.

 

In some regards, that's realistic, however what we see in real life is that other teams will try to match spending, or even spend more, than the title winning team to try push things closer or get them the title in subsequent seasons.

 

It's definitely an interesting take on what I am seeing in my save and others in theirs.

[PinkSpeedos]

17 hours ago, ZoDiAC_ said:

They've been relegated in my game!

As a Leeds fan, this put a smile on my face. 

[alanschu14]

43 minutes ago, PinkSpeedos said:

This is an interesting point actually. As I'm noticing that those who don't have Man U as the dominant team, have someone else who is dominant (such as Chelsea). It could be that whoever grabs that first title is looked on favourably in terms of reputation etc so it is easier for them to sign the bigger, better players.

 

In some regards, that's realistic, however what we see in real life is that other teams will try to match spending, or even spend more, than the title winning team to try push things closer or get them the title in subsequent seasons.

 

It's definitely an interesting take on what I am seeing in my save and others in theirs.

 

I mean, I'm 2x Bundesliga defending champions who won Europa two years ago and was the Champions League finalist last year, but I still have players going "I want to move to a bigger club" despite 4.5 star worldwide reputation because that club is Chelsea or Man City lol.

Hopefully we can secure the Champions League title in the next couple of seasons and players won't feel that way.

[gavo01]

19 hours ago, ZoDiAC_ said:

They've been relegated in my game!

I'd take that over who's dominating in my save, Liverpool. 😉

[puffascruffowitz]

Mourinhos base tactics in-game and I think also his high motivation contribute to this. For whatever reason Pep's tactics in FM just don't seem to work. 

[JordanMilly]

10 hours ago, PinkSpeedos said:

As a Leeds fan, this put a smile on my face. 

And just as big a smile on my Liverpool-supporting face