Inverted Winger - what to play behind?

[edhdurham]

Really like the inverted winger role and there seems to be a few players in the game but what role is best suited to play behind them in a 4-4-1-1 formation...  as they move inwards I kinda thought WB to provide width, but then FB-A seems as thought it would work but worried about defensive shape.

Anyone use this role and if so what role do you play behind them in the Full back role?

[westy8chimp]

It doesn't really matter what you have behind as the inverted wingers have Blinkers on and run diagonally out to in looking for shot/through ball or switch to players on their inside. I've tried with WB-A FB-A to create that lovely space out wide and rarely happens.

I guess you could argue (in real life terms) that an attacking full back or wing back should at least occupy a defender or two making sure they have to watch the flank to some extent.

IW on support with a Shadow Striker or AM (A) works very well ... Or also an RMD on the opposite wing.

[irish kopite]

In my current Liverpool save, I use Mane on the right in an IW (A) role in a 4-4-2. He chips in with goals and assists.

To make an inverted winger work I think you need to:

1.empty the space in front of an attacking inverted winger for those diagonal outside to in runs like Freddie Ljungberg. I have Firmino in a DLF (s) ahead of Mane.

2. Importantly, I have Arnold in a WB (s) behind him making forward runs often to push Mane inside. I think any other Full Back role without those frequent forward runs sees an inverted winger stay too wide.

3.Mane also has the necessary traits like cut inside from the right.

4.I balance out a very attacking right flank by having Henderson in a CM (d) role on that side of the pitch.

Finally, I think you get more out of an IW A having a right footed player on the right and vice versa. If he gets stuck he can put in a short low cross and somebody might get on the end of it. I know this is not what the inverted winger role in real life is intended for but it's my own observation. I found that using Salah for example on the right ran into traffic far too easily and lost possession.

[ajsr1982]

Well, the theory goes that the IW drags an opposition wide player with him and there is space to exploit. In truth, any FB role will move into that space, so it depends on two things. The duty - how much risk do you want to take, and the role - what do you want the player to do when he hits that space. The various FB/WB options all have hard coded behaviours that will affect whether they look to pass/cross/dribble.

Other thing to be aware of is who feeds your overlapping FB. As @westy8chimp said, it ain't going to be your IW. There are a few options here, but in a 4-4-1-1 it's going to come from your central midfield, I'd imagine, and most probably the guy in the LCM spot, so think about a) where your FB will be in relation to him, and b) the role, duty (this is key - the mentality of your midfielder will dictate how risky/forwards his passing will be) and PIs your midfielder has.

Probably a question to be asked as well, but is the out-to-in behaviour of the IW more with the ball than without? If so, that's something to take into consideration because it requires the ball to be recycled to someone who can feed the FB.

[summatsupeer]

What do you want your FB to do?  Don't just look at the wide pair, you need to look at it in the context of your tactic and what your players are good at.  You don't have to get a FB forward just because you use a IW.

Do you want him to get forward early?  Do you want him getting to the byline and crossing?  Do you want him to mix it up, supporting, crossing and playing balls down line?  Do you want him sitting deep and keeping things simple?   If you have a good FB who can cross well and a ST (with support) able to get on the end of them it should work well.  If you don't, but your IW is good when put on an island against the opposition FB then maybe just support/cover him and feed him the ball.

As the others have pointed out, you don't really get passing combinations between a IW/IF and a overlapping FB/WB.  The IW/IF is creating space for the FB/WB but the supply is typically from a central midfielder as the run is often on the blind side of the IW/IF so would need exceptional vision+technique to switch it out wide himself.

[westy8chimp]

56 minutes ago, ajsr1982 said:

Probably a question to be asked as well, but is the out-to-in behaviour of the IW more with the ball than without? If so, that's something to take into consideration because it requires the ball to be recycled to someone who can feed the FB.

yeah - I was eluding to it ... it's more in possession which is why it's not really great for opening the space for a FB.

i.e. If you went with a DLP in MCL ... if he receives the ball, the space isn't yet available for the FB (A) to run into because the IW is wide... so he passes to IW who then goes on his one-trick-pony (Sanchez) run...

if you get the right player it can be very successful, but it's really frustrating when your FB is in acres of space out wide and your IW completely ignores him.

If you want an overlapping FB then wing/wm/wp on support duty are ideal.

If you like the IW position.. then simple answer is a standard FB s ... or even a defensive full back. In Possession your IW is going to do his thing... so concentrate on your defensive shape when picking the FB role/duty. Or go crazy ... IWB A behind IW A with a Mez A in MCL  

[edhdurham]

1 hour ago, westy8chimp said:

It doesn't really matter what you have behind as the inverted wingers have Blinkers on and run diagonally out to in looking for shot/through ball or switch to players on their inside. I've tried with WB-A FB-A to create that lovely space out wide and rarely happens.

I guess you could argue (in real life terms) that an attacking full back or wing back should at least occupy a defender or two making sure they have to watch the flank to some extent.

IW on support with a Shadow Striker or AM (A) works very well ... Or also an RMD on the opposite wing.

I am using an Enganche in the AM role, I like having someone sitting in there controlling the tempo, plus I like the idea of the IV running inwards and playing short passes with the EN and then space being created outwide...  I have been using FB-S and they seem to offer decent width, I was just curious how other people used the role.

[edhdurham]

1 hour ago, irish kopite said:

Finally, I think you get more out of an IW A having a right footed player on the right and vice versa. If he gets stuck he can put in a short low cross and somebody might get on the end of it. I know this is not what the inverted winger role in real life is intended for but it's my own observation. I found that using Salah for example on the right ran into traffic far too easily and lost possession.

Yeah I have noticed that playing the player with their strongest foot is better, i.e Right on the Right wing, they seem to act like a mix between the Inverted Winger and more standard Winger.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

I find a supporting fullback (or wingback whichever) is more than fine. They still attack the wing-spaces when the IW cut inside, but offer a bit more stability defensively for me. Also, I prefer them advancing up slightly later than usual, on attack duties they can end up too far forward and effectively take themselves out of the game depending on your set up. Additionally, I think the more conservative duty makes sense as the the IW, with their tendency to dribble are at slightly higher risk of losing the ball, so having that defensive backup can encourage the IW to take more risks with his runs anyway, which can be useful if that is what you want?

 

That's how I reason it in my head anyway.

[kingjericho]

If the goal is to use the fullback to attack the wide space the IW leaves free, then I'd go for a FB/a, or a WB/a or WB/s. The FB role is more about making forward runs and crossing from the byline, the WB role has more ball on the feet and dribbles with it, rather than just attacking space.

In the end it really depends on the rest of the setup and not only this particular duo.

[noikeee]

1 hour ago, edhdurham said:

Yeah I have noticed that playing the player with their strongest foot is better, i.e Right on the Right wing, they seem to act like a mix between the Inverted Winger and more standard Winger.

Same for me. I've used inverted wingers for quite a lot of seasons now in my 4-4-2, and have found the same. There are some occasional games where a "proper" IW, on the wing contrary to his feet, works well as the opposition gives him space to cut in, but usually the mixed behaviour you get from a guy with their strongest foot works better.

Of course, it depends on your setup and on a lot of variables but I would tend to agree with the above.

3 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

It doesn't really matter what you have behind as the inverted wingers have Blinkers on and run diagonally out to in looking for shot/through ball or switch to players on their inside. I've tried with WB-A FB-A to create that lovely space out wide and rarely happens.

.... and same for me as well.

In theory a IW would open up a lot of nice space for a rampaging wing/fullback to run into, but in FM18 this seems tricky to pull off. Sometimes it happens but it's a couple of moves ahead, and like others say, it needs support from midfielders or other players to spot the fullback in space. I don't think I've ever seen a IW cut inside then stop, look the other way and feed his fullback, and I've had some freakishly talented, creative, selfless players playing as IW over the years.

[edhdurham]

36 minutes ago, noikeee said:

I don't think I've ever seen a IW cut inside then stop, look the other way and feed his fullback, and I've had some freakishly talented, creative, selfless players playing as IW over the years.

Yeah watching the game you can see they run blindly at times, which is why I liked the idea of the playmaker role being assigned to the AM, I was hoping that they would pass to this role more often as he is a playmaker type and that the Enganche would spot the space out wide, then the Inverted winger would attack the box and the crosses come from FBs, so from an attack point of view I thought I would have space out wide for the FB to cross / passing into the box, inverted winger attacking from deep...  but then defensively the FB wont be too far forward so we dont get done on the counter.

[Saris]

I am also trying to get an IW to work in my system but for my liking he is staying to wide for too long when he is without the ball. An IW(a) rarely moves inside without the ball and an IW(s) is often way to conservative with either cutting inside or moving forward for my liking.

As for the right-footed player working better as an IW on the right: I observed that, too, in my Leverkusen save. I have Julian Brandt playing there and he has just been beasting. However, in my Nürnberg save, Stefaniak is not doing as well as a right-footed IW on the left.

vor 3 Stunden schrieb westy8chimp:

i.e. If you went with a DLP in MCL ... if he receives the ball, the space isn't yet available for the FB (A) to run into because the IW is wide... so he passes to IW who then goes on his one-trick-pony (Sanchez) run...

That is exactly the problem I have. Is there any role in the ML/MR strata that also moves inside without having the ball? And do you guys think that the Wide Midfielder with PIs better reflects an Inside Forward in the ML/MR strata?

[Alerion]

On topic of the inverted winger, you need to be careful. I experienced with multiple players/teams that the Inverted Winger will stay very close to the center and cut inside way too early, getting into the way of my midfielder or F9´s. Take some time and watch the players behaviour if you can, I always found more success with an IF in the AM role.

[Gegenklaus]

4 hours ago, Alerion said:

On topic of the inverted winger, you need to be careful. I experienced with multiple players/teams that the Inverted Winger will stay very close to the center and cut inside way too early, getting into the way of my midfielder or F9´s. Take some time and watch the players behaviour if you can, I always found more success with an IF in the AM role.

I have found the exact opposite to be honest. Aslong with the Mezzala an Inverted Winger is by far my most used role. Like the Wide Midfielder role they are good at providing width if told to stay wider. I paired mine IW-s with a Mez on attack. Then an inverted wingback behind them. It works wonders. I usually use a player with the prefered foot closest to the touchline. It becomes a more dimensional winger that both can go to the byline or make a diagonal cut inside.  

i often see the Mez underlap the IW / going ahead of the IW making space in the half space for the IW to charge into. It offers a lot of variety and awesome moment.

[Saris]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb Alerion:

On topic of the inverted winger, you need to be careful. I experienced with multiple players/teams that the Inverted Winger will stay very close to the center and cut inside way too early, getting into the way of my midfielder or F9´s. Take some time and watch the players behaviour if you can, I always found more success with an IF in the AM role.

But that is what we want to see, a player that is cutting inside without the ball and that is closer to the AMC. And like @Gegenklaus, I never observed the behavior that you described but the complete opposite.