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21 hours ago, git2thachoppa said:

I don't know if they do it nowadays but, if they don't, SI seriously need a manual (or official FAQ) that details what attributes and every other little thing does. No point having a feature if no one's sure what it does and take educated guesses.

I think I've been waiting for 6 years now for an accurate in-game definition of a ccc. :lol:

 

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58 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

I think I've been waiting for 6 years now for an accurate in-game definition of a ccc. :lol:

 

'Any header from inside the penalty area.'

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22 hours ago, git2thachoppa said:

I don't know if they do it nowadays but, if they don't, SI seriously need a manual (or official FAQ) that details what attributes and every other little thing does. No point having a feature if no one's sure what it does and take educated guesses.

The point is you aren't supposed to know everything.

Life is a big grey area and FM is designed to be the same.  The problem is the type of gamer FM attracts is the type that like clear defined black & white answers.

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4 hours ago, Cougar2010 said:

The point is you aren't supposed to know everything.

Life is a big grey area and FM is designed to be the same.  The problem is the type of gamer FM attracts is the type that like clear defined black & white answers.

You aren't supposed to know everything, but you are supposed to know what you know. With FM, we don't know what the game is telling us we would know.

The attibutes represent how we see a player. We look at Ronaldo (either one) in real life and know he's one of the best finishers ever, certainly in the world right now. So in the game, he has a Finishing of say 19 or 20.

However what if we didn't know what the GAME says Finishing is? (In fact we don't - how many people make a thread saying their striker won't score despite having a high finishing attribute?) However if the game says in some form (manual, online FAQ, even just as a box that comes up when you hover your mouse over it) 'Finishing just means how accurately a player can shoot where he wants it, but this is also affected by X and Y', then we now know what we're supposed to know. If someone doesn't know that Composure is an attacking attribute that greatly affects, or Technique etc. then the attribute is pointless. Then you have hidden attributes like 'Vision' or 'Temperament' or whatever, when this is something we should know just as much as Flair or Work Rate.

Then you say 'well they could figure it out really, a lot of it's self-explanatory'. Well so are a lot of things in FM that actually are done different to what you expect, whether it be attibutes such as with the long time confusion between Height, Jumping, Aerial Ability and Agility, or a coach with 20 in Defence Coaching, Level of Discipline and Man Management that still doesn't get you 5 stars in Defence Training, or making use of a feature like manager interaction or team talks not realising they have very specific and repetitive effects on players' morale, rather than affecting the manager it's aimed towards, lowering fan expectation or increasing ticket sales, which one might perhaps assume logically this would affect. These are holes in the game's logic by failing to explain its own personal definition and paramaters, not the people.

Edited by git2thachoppa

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7 hours ago, git2thachoppa said:

You aren't supposed to know everything, but you are supposed to know what you know. With FM, we don't know what the game is telling us we would know.

The attibutes represent how we see a player. We look at Ronaldo (either one) in real life and know he's one of the best finishers ever, certainly in the world right now. So in the game, he has a Finishing of say 19 or 20.

However what if we didn't know what the GAME says Finishing is? (In fact we don't - how many people make a thread saying their striker won't score despite having a high finishing attribute?) However if the game says in some form (manual, online FAQ, even just as a box that comes up when you hover your mouse over it) 'Finishing just means how accurately a player can shoot where he wants it, but this is also affected by X and Y', then we now know what we're supposed to know. If someone doesn't know that Composure is an attacking attribute that greatly affects, or Technique etc. then the attribute is pointless. Then you have hidden attributes like 'Vision' or 'Temperament' or whatever, when this is something we should know just as much as Flair or Work Rate.

Then you say 'well they could figure it out really, a lot of it's self-explanatory'. Well so are a lot of things in FM that actually are done different to what you expect, whether it be attibutes such as with the long time confusion between Height, Jumping, Aerial Ability and Agility, or a coach with 20 in Defence Coaching, Level of Discipline and Man Management that still doesn't get you 5 stars in Defence Training, or making use of a feature like manager interaction or team talks not realising they have very specific and repetitive effects on players' morale, rather than affecting the manager it's aimed towards, lowering fan expectation or increasing ticket sales, which one might perhaps assume logically this would affect. These are holes in the game's logic by failing to explain its own personal definition and paramaters, not the people.

You expect too much IMO.

A player's action in game is never the result of just one attribute just like IRL.  Its always a combination of 5, 6, 7, 10, 15 different attributes just like real life.

Focussing on one attribute is an issue for the user because they need to be looking at the bigger picture.  SI have improved a lot in recent years, you can highlight key & secondary attributes for every role & duty and even search for players by role/duty.  The problem is that users are still too heavily concerned with numbers rather than looking at what the player does on the pitch.  I very rarely look at attributes now and haven't for several years, I use the octagon and I watch the games, that tells me 90% of what I need to know.

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13 hours ago, Cougar2010 said:

You expect too much IMO.

A player's action in game is never the result of just one attribute just like IRL.  Its always a combination of 5, 6, 7, 10, 15 different attributes just like real life.

Focussing on one attribute is an issue for the user because they need to be looking at the bigger picture.  SI have improved a lot in recent years, you can highlight key & secondary attributes for every role & duty and even search for players by role/duty.  The problem is that users are still too heavily concerned with numbers rather than looking at what the player does on the pitch.  I very rarely look at attributes now and haven't for several years, I use the octagon and I watch the games, that tells me 90% of what I need to know.

That's not a good sign then, that they really have become pointless, which suggests they either don't work or aren't clear enough.

Every feature in a game or just a piece of equipment needs to be explained, otherwise we don't know what it does, so what's the point in it being there in the first place?

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2 minutes ago, git2thachoppa said:

That's not a good sign then, that they really have become pointless, which suggests they either don't work or aren't clear enough.

Every feature in a game or just a piece of equipment needs to be explained, otherwise we don't know what it does, so what's the point in it being there in the first place?

The point is it does a very specific job within the game but the user shouldn't be concerned about that.  They need to look at the bigger picture rather than being blinkered by a narrow bit of detail.

Taking the coaching stars you mentioned above as an example.  The difference between a 5* coach and a 3* coach is there but to the average user they probably wouldn't notice the difference.  A lot of users put too much effort into finding that 5* coach for the amount of improvement it brings to the club overall. 

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1 hour ago, Cougar2010 said:

The point is it does a very specific job within the game but the user shouldn't be concerned about that.  They need to look at the bigger picture rather than being blinkered by a narrow bit of detail.

Taking the coaching stars you mentioned above as an example.  The difference between a 5* coach and a 3* coach is there but to the average user they probably wouldn't notice the difference.  A lot of users put too much effort into finding that 5* coach for the amount of improvement it brings to the club overall. 

We should all be average users.

It's not about focusing too much on one detail, it's about knowing what exactly that detail is that's being given to us.

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Evening all

I see lots of people recommending gyazo for screenshots, but can anybody recommend a site I can use to host images I can link to, rather than take screenshots from? I've signed 10 new players in this transfer window, so I'd rather link them with a little explanation on each player than just post them all at the bottom of the post. That way those who are interested can click through, those who aren't don't have to see them.

Cheers.

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Just now, withnail316 said:

Evening all

I see lots of people recommending gyazo for screenshots, but can anybody recommend a site I can use to host images I can link to, rather than take screenshots from? I've signed 10 new players in this transfer window, so I'd rather link them with a little explanation on each player than just post them all at the bottom of the post. That way those who are interested can click through, those who aren't don't have to see them.

Cheers.

Imgur

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3 minutes ago, git2thachoppa said:

Imgur

Cheers.

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2 hours ago, Cougar2010 said:

The point is it does a very specific job within the game but the user shouldn't be concerned about that.  They need to look at the bigger picture rather than being blinkered by a narrow bit of detail.

Taking the coaching stars you mentioned above as an example.  The difference between a 5* coach and a 3* coach is there but to the average user they probably wouldn't notice the difference.  A lot of users put too much effort into finding that 5* coach for the amount of improvement it brings to the club overall. 

Well said.  I do not understand the complaining about a lack of information, about what attributes do.  Am I the only person who gets a description of the attribute when I hover over it?

597936f9766a4_GunnarVikander_Inbox.thumb.png.3c89d1d5a35860720d12035ee8749130.png

Or, should I be reporting this as a bug?  Yeah, I thought not.  It does what it says on the tin, as far as I can see.

What happens in-game in the ME, with player development/training, etc -- multiple factors apply, as they should.  Maybe you've got a Balotelli-esque player, who has all the tools to be world class, but is a nutcase and never meets his potential.  Maybe you've got a player with all the tools, but just never comes good.  That happens every ****ing day in football.  That's what should happen in FM.  A finishing attribute of 20 doesn't mean your striker will score every time he has a go, and it shouldn't.

Similarly, why should we be entitled to a breakdown of how the ME calculates everything that happens on the pitch?  Why should we be entitled to know the EXACT formula for developing players?

Certain aspects of the game SHOULD be a black box, with an element of uncertainty.  

Bottom line -- we're given certain information and are able to informed decisions that don't always work out the way we'd planned.  Kind of like what happens to the likes of Pep the Bald, Auntie Maureen, etc.  

For example, just because Messi missed a penalty for you in a cup final doesn't mean that his penalty attribute is misleading or that the ME is "rigged."  Maybe he'd miss that in real life, you know?  *cough*

(And, no, that crack isn't an invitation to debate how realistic the game is/isn't.  That's beside the point.)

Edited by ManUtd1

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3 minutes ago, ManUtd1 said:

For example, just because Messi missed a penalty for you in a cup final doesn't mean that his penalty attribute is misleading or that the ME is "rigged."  Maybe he'd miss that in real life, you know?  *cough*

To be fair, Messi's fairly crap at penalties in real life, not sure if the game rates him for them or not.

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3 minutes ago, BoxToBox said:

To be fair, Messi's fairly crap at penalties in real life, not sure if the game rates him for them or not.

Hahaha -- I should probably have checked his attribute before making that crack.  Point being, though, he's arguably the greatest players ever, and even he doesn't always come good in the big moments.

Edited by ManUtd1

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3 minutes ago, ManUtd1 said:

Hahaha -- I should probably have checked his attribute before making that crack.  Point being, though, he's arguably the greatest players ever, and even he doesn't always come good in the big moments.

Aye, just look at Argentina.

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23 minutes ago, ManUtd1 said:

What happens in-game in the ME, with player development/training, etc -- multiple factors apply, as they should.  Maybe you've got a Balotelli-esque player, who has all the tools to be world class, but is a nutcase and never meets his potential.  Maybe you've got a player with all the tools, but just never comes good.  That happens every ****ing day in football.  That's what should happen in FM.  A finishing attribute of 20 doesn't mean your striker will score every time he has a go, and it shouldn't.

Similarly, why should we be entitled to a breakdown of how the ME calculates everything that happens on the pitch?  Why should we be entitled to know the EXACT formula for developing players?

Certain aspects of the game SHOULD be a black box, with an element of uncertainty.  

Bottom line -- we're given certain information and are able to informed decisions that don't always work out the way we'd planned.  Kind of like what happens to the likes of Pep the Bald, Auntie Maureen, etc.  

For example, just because Messi missed a penalty for you in a cup final doesn't mean that his penalty attribute is misleading or that the ME is "rigged."  Maybe he'd miss that in real life, you know?  *cough*

(And, no, that crack isn't an invitation to debate how realistic the game is/isn't.  That's beside the point.)

I don't get it... what's all this to do with whether there should be explanations of what attributes mean?

I don't see how wanting to know what the game defines Jumping to mean as the same as asking for the equations used in a match engine, or any application to real life. In real life, we individually know what we define Jumping as.

A real life comparison isn't saying we don't know everything in life so wouldn't know what someone's Jumping ability is. A comparison would actually be us living in a world where we literally guess what the word jump means, and there are no dictionaries.

If there are tooltips in the game now explaining these attributes properly, I'm not sure what you two are disagreeing with me about right now.

Edited by git2thachoppa

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7 minutes ago, git2thachoppa said:

I don't see how wanting to know what the game defines Jumping to mean [snip]

You realize that the explanations you believe are missing, are actually in the game, right?

Jumping reach defined:

59793fcdd04f5_AldairMatusiwa_OverviewProfile.thumb.png.a5295916640cf9dc00e783a82645c848.png

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11 minutes ago, ManUtd1 said:

You realize that the explanations you believe are missing, are actually in the game, right?

Jumping reach defined:

59793fcdd04f5_AldairMatusiwa_OverviewProfile.thumb.png.a5295916640cf9dc00e783a82645c848.png

When did I believe they were missing?

I mean I literally just said...

23 minutes ago, git2thachoppa said:

If there are tooltips in the game now explaining these attributes properly, I'm not sure what you two are disagreeing with me about right now.

And my very first post said...

On 24/07/2017 at 23:51, git2thachoppa said:

I don't know if they do it nowadays but, if they don't

Your replies aren't matching what you're replying to. I'm utterly confused as to what's going on right now.

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I rarely get the pleasure of seeing someone unintentionally make my point for me.  Thank you.  :brock:

Edited by ManUtd1

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Just now, ManUtd1 said:

I rarely get the pleasure of seeing someone make my point for me.  Thank you.  :brock:

I can only reiterate... your replies aren't matching what you're replying to.

This is like Red Dwarf with the time jumps. You're describing events that haven't happened (yet) and your replies don't correlate to what you've quoted.

I feel I'm going to regret asking this but... what point did you even have that I apparently made that creepily gave you pleasure?...

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With respect to your comments, you began by saying that:

On 7/24/2017 at 15:51, git2thachoppa said:

I don't know if they do it nowadays but, if they don't, SI seriously need a manual (or official FAQ) that details what attributes and every other little thing does. No point having a feature if no one's sure what it does and take educated guesses.

You followed up, by repeatedly making statements expressing: (1) a lack of knowledge about what explanations the game does/doesn't provide about attributes; and/or (2) frustration with the lack of explanations provided by the game:

On 7/25/2017 at 19:08, git2thachoppa said:

The attibutes represent how we see a player. We look at Ronaldo (either one) in real life and know he's one of the best finishers ever, certainly in the world right now. So in the game, he has a Finishing of say 19 or 20.

However what if we didn't know what the GAME says Finishing is? (In fact we don't - how many people make a thread saying their striker won't score despite having a high finishing attribute?) However if the game says in some form (manual, online FAQ, even just as a box that comes up when you hover your mouse over it) 'Finishing just means how accurately a player can shoot where he wants it, but this is also affected by X and Y', then we now know what we're supposed to know.

These are holes in the game's logic by failing to explain its own personal definition and paramaters, not the people.

3 hours ago, git2thachoppa said:

Every feature in a game or just a piece of equipment needs to be explained, otherwise we don't know what it does, so what's the point in it being there in the first place?

2 hours ago, git2thachoppa said:

It's not about focusing too much on one detail, it's about knowing what exactly that detail is that's being given to us.

1 hour ago, git2thachoppa said:

I don't get it... what's all this to do with whether there should be explanations of what attributes mean?

I don't see how wanting to know what the game defines Jumping to mean as the same as asking for the equations used in a match engine, or any application to real life. In real life, we individually know what we define Jumping as.

If there are tooltips in the game now explaining these attributes properly, I'm not sure what you two are disagreeing with me about right now.

As a threshold matter, my initial response was not just to your comments, but to others who had weighed in o.

With respect to your comments, I merely pointed out that the game DOES provide concise, accurate descriptions for individual attributes.  I also noted the absurdity of wanting to know more, and expressed agreement with @Cougar2010 who, like others, pointed out that focusing too heavily on an individual attribute in isolation defies common sense.

Finally, what entertained me was you apparently not realizing that your response to me: (1) assumed that my entire response was directed at you (it quite clearly wasn't); and (2) reiterated your concern about the game information lacking information that it, in fact, has.  

I argue with people for a living.  I make a very good living doing it.  I could be here all night.  I won't be.

Edited by ManUtd1

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Just bought the latest version in the Steam summer sale.  Been playing this since back in 97 when I was just 15 years old (a looong time ago).

Liking the game.  1st save, just do the usual trick. Start with your favourite club (Chester) and work out the basics till you get sacked...

Only thing is...

14 games into the 2020/21 season and I'm 3rd in the Championship...

Managed to get 3 promotions on the bounce, all by winning the play-offs in the Vanarama Conference, League Two and League One respectively.

I've done Non-League to top flight before back on FM15 a couple of years ago, but that took 5 seasons, this would be a personal best if I somehow manage to go up again.

God knows what this will mean with the ground.  Capacity is still only 5,500!

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13 hours ago, withnail316 said:

Evening all

I see lots of people recommending gyazo for screenshots, but can anybody recommend a site I can use to host images I can link to, rather than take screenshots from? I've signed 10 new players in this transfer window, so I'd rather link them with a little explanation on each player than just post them all at the bottom of the post. That way those who are interested can click through, those who aren't don't have to see them.

Cheers.

You can do that with Gyazo too. 

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1 hour ago, Keano16 said:

You can do that with Gyazo too. 

Thanks, didn't know that.

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Playing a slightly edited Gibraltar save after not really getting the time to get into any saves enough to write about them on FM17, quite enjoying it.  For those that remember my long thread last version, something interesting came up in this one.  Apparently Eddie Howe is England manager again...

Hiya Eddie, Hiya pal!

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Hi all!

Does anyone know if any of the edits etc includes the leichtensteiner cup? doesnt say on claasens one that it does, and i think that could be a great youth save.

Also if someone wins the leichtenstein cup, then the europa league, do they get a champions league berth.

Cheers!

 

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How are people able to post non blurry screenshots on their career updates? I've tried using snipping tool and taking screenshots in-game, but when I post them to my update if I try and zoom them in or make them big enough so you don't have to click on the pictures to see them properly, it's always blurry??

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3rd party hosting, usually Gyazo.

 

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Ok, so I've tried countless times taking screenshots with gyazo and then using the url link button and it never puts the image on the page, just shows the url link. I try saving the image and then sharing it via my computer and it gives the same effect as the blurry screen captures I'm using already.

It's becoming frustrating, not sure what I'm doing wrong!

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4 minutes ago, winterburnsilva said:

Ok, so I've tried countless times taking screenshots with gyazo and then using the url link button and it never puts the image on the page, just shows the url link. I try saving the image and then sharing it via my computer and it gives the same effect as the blurry screen captures I'm using already.

It's becoming frustrating, not sure what I'm doing wrong!

Press F12 in game and go to the screenshot part of steam and save them.

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Yeah I've tried that too, it's all good until it comes to posting them in here. I can't figure out how to make them full screen and readable without having to click on them to see them properly

fictoid.thumb.jpg.a75ac68733c6ef2898b2a43ef2413d8e.jpg

They just end up like this, small so you can't read them properly without clicking on them

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What I do (I'm sure others do different).

A) Take screenshot using Steam.

B) Open the screenshot in Paint and crop then save the new image.

C) Upload new image to Imgur (I tried Gyazo when Photobucket cut off their nose but prefer Imgur).

D) Copy & paste the BBCode from Ingur into the forum post.

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7 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

What I do (I'm sure others do different).

A) Take screenshot using Steam.

B) Open the screenshot in Paint and crop then save the new image.

C) Upload new image to Imgur (I tried Gyazo when Photobucket cut off their nose but prefer Imgur).

D) Copy & paste the BBCode from Ingur into the forum post.

Thankyou! You are frankly a genius, thankyou for helping a computer illiterate out haha

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What I do

A) Use snipping tool to capture what i want

B) Save in My Documents.

C) Upload new image to Imgur 

D) Copy & paste the BBCode from Ingur into the forum post.

 

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hi_everybody.jpg?1369213895

 

Been a while since I've been in this part of the forum. Quite a few new faces. :)

Haven't really got into FM17 but going to take another bash at it now. Going to use the same journeyman/no badges/Sunday League football approach, but with a couple changes: At least to start, I'll have all the English- (well, except ROI/WAL/NIR) and Spanish-speaking leagues loaded (figuring since FM gives us Yanquis fluency in English and en Espanol at the start). And historically I've avoided league where there's squad rules like "Two players in starting XI must be 23 years or younger", realizing that most of my saves I've looked for young players to stock my squad.

 

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On 8/3/2017 at 18:57, winterburnsilva said:

Ok, so I've tried countless times taking screenshots with gyazo and then using the url link button and it never puts the image on the page, just shows the url link. I try saving the image and then sharing it via my computer and it gives the same effect as the blurry screen captures I'm using already.

It's becoming frustrating, not sure what I'm doing wrong!

I use Gyazo and can get the images to be non blurry. You just have to right click on the image and choose "Copy Image" and then paste it here. 

Just in case you prefer using gyazo.

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8 hours ago, Jason the Yank said:

hi_everybody.jpg?1369213895

 

Been a while since I've been in this part of the forum. Quite a few new faces. :)

Haven't really got into FM17 but going to take another bash at it now. Going to use the same journeyman/no badges/Sunday League football approach, but with a couple changes: At least to start, I'll have all the English- (well, except ROI/WAL/NIR) and Spanish-speaking leagues loaded (figuring since FM gives us Yanquis fluency in English and en Espanol at the start). And historically I've avoided league where there's squad rules like "Two players in starting XI must be 23 years or younger", realizing that most of my saves I've looked for young players to stock my squad.

 

giphy_s.gif

Welcome back :D

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Long time coming but think I will do multiple season updates on my current LFC save. 2 updates per season. After 19 and 38 league games ideally (January & May)

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As long as you don't act on your preference otherwise we will have to start calling you Jimmy Saville.

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Currently at a really tough time in terms of getting a save started on FM. As it stands I've had one good save on FM17 with Forest and was slowly building something. Unfortunately due to a poor start I got sacked. Since then I've tried to start about 10 different saves but none have kept me interested.

Any ideas as to what I can do?

Edit: I was sacked at Forest after about 8/9 seasons.

Edited by Nottingham Forest

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5 hours ago, Nottingham Forest said:

Currently at a really tough time in terms of getting a save started on FM. As it stands I've had one good save on FM17 with Forest and was slowly building something. Unfortunately due to a poor start I got sacked. Since then I've tried to start about 10 different saves but none have kept me interested.

Any ideas as to what I can do?

Edit: I was sacked at Forest after about 8/9 seasons.

Dundee United in Scotland? A big club stuck in the second tier, former European Cup semi finalists, good facilities, and a history of bringing through excellent youth prospects. Failing that, when in doubt, go north. I'm currently managing IK Start (on 13) of Norway, who find themselves in the 2nd tier again irl. This is their home:

5990d1367c9a9_Startstadium.thumb.jpg.644d90f56d0216cad010a8153537383d.jpg

You could also try starting in the Swedish 4th tier and going for a journeyman, perhaps? 

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Sweden doesn't interest me. Forest and a journeyman will be happening for 18 at the moment. Dundee United will be on my list if my current idea doesn't work.

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5 hours ago, Nottingham Forest said:

Sweden doesn't interest me. Forest and a journeyman will be happening for 18 at the moment. Dundee United will be on my list if my current idea doesn't work.

Start unemployed, let game simulation create stories.

2 hours ago, Nottingham Forest said:

What is the best image sharing site to use now guys?

Imgur.

Another popular suggestion is Gyazo but you have to download an app and ****.

Edited by git2thachoppa

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On 8/14/2017 at 12:55, Nottingham Forest said:

What is the best image sharing site to use now guys?

Different board, different game but I've been using https://postimages.org and it seems to work out well.

 

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