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Possibly a bit of a novice question but in what tactical systems/circumstances would you use 'use tighter marking'? Seems a bit pointless imo and best off marking players through PIs and OIs.

I may be wrong but I can't think of any teams that I've watched where the whole team is marking tightly including forwards. I'd of thought you wouldn't want strikers marking at all unless you're holding on to a result and it's 'all hands on deck'?

Any pointers would be welcome!

 

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16 minutes ago, dan_bre_1988 said:

I may be wrong but I can't think of any teams that I've watched where the whole team is marking tightly including forwards. I'd of thought you wouldn't want strikers marking at all unless you're holding on to a result and it's 'all hands on deck'?

 

When Bosz was managing Ajax and they faced Feyenoord in the ArenA, Feyenoord used a stricked man marking across the whole field. That's also the reason Ajax completely blew them away despite it only being 2-1. In the Eredivisie allot of teams still use man marking. 

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3 hours ago, dan_bre_1988 said:

Possibly a bit of a novice question but in what tactical systems/circumstances would you use 'use tighter marking'? Seems a bit pointless imo and best off marking players through PIs and OIs.

I may be wrong but I can't think of any teams that I've watched where the whole team is marking tightly including forwards. I'd of thought you wouldn't want strikers marking at all unless you're holding on to a result and it's 'all hands on deck'?

Any pointers would be welcome!

 

 

2 hours ago, kingjericho said:

Use tighter marking is useful when you want to press the opposition hard. This instructions aims to have your players not giving much space to the opponents. You can use, for example, a high defensive line, close down more, and tighter marking, to employ a high pressure system.

Bielsa did it a few times - when it works you get Athletic beating Manchester United at Old Trafford, when it fails Marseille effectively hand over the ligue 1 title to PSG in 3 minutes of play. I can't find it now but I remember reading a match report where the reporter seemed like he couldn't believe he'd just seen them man mark the entire outfield 10. 

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"Tighter Marking" is not "man marking", players will still position in there defensive zones but will just move closer to opponents.  The player you instruct to do this will need good physical attributes to not get turned/beat.

My generic rules on it are:  Use it to reduce easy passes to the feet of that player, if that player is getting in behind (via through balls) you don't use it.  If your trying to keep a solid block to remove passing lanes don't use it.  I rarely use it as a team, if I do use it its a PI or OI.

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Thanks for the replies guys.

Think I will stick to just targeting specific players through PIs and OIs.

Seems like it's main purpose is systems where you are pressing high such as Liverpool and Man City and trying to stop teams from playing out of trouble.

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3 hours ago, dan_bre_1988 said:

Thanks for the replies guys.

Think I will stick to just targeting specific players through PIs and OIs.

Seems like it's main purpose is systems where you are pressing high such as Liverpool and Man City and trying to stop teams from playing out of trouble.

I think that Liverpool don't use it often. They stay compact and blocking passing lanes and destroy oponnent by counter attack. Sometimes they change system and press  heavily -this is the time when "thighter marking" is in place. Liverpool this season manage their press to keep players fresh and injury free. Another reason is they are better defensively (Van Dijk helps a lot but not all about him) 

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I don't usually use tighter marking unless the other team is slow. It leaves you open against the quicker players. I guess if your defense is quick enough it could be beastly.

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Hey. Do you found solution? I also have same problem. My player either aggressively together mark single opposition (sometimes even 4!)or just let them free header or free runs

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hace 7 horas, Hanan96 dijo:

Hey. Do you found solution? I also have same problem. My player either aggressively together mark single opposition (sometimes even 4!)or just let them free header or free runs

Maybe I'm wrong but I believe that behavior is more related to "closing down more" than to tight marking

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This is an interesting question. Lets first assume that, knowing FM, there is no ''right'' or ''wrong'' in the use of your instructions. As long as you win, youre on the right track.

With the arrival of FM 2019, we can now see in the Tactical Style presets that the ''Use Tighter Marking'' is employed in the Catenaccio, Park the Bus and Route One presets, but not in ''Control'', ''Gegenpress'', ''Tiki Taka'' or any of the Counter (Direct/Fluid) presets.

 

This seems to suggest that Tighter Marking has nothing to do in FM with a desire to press aggressively, although I agree its in-game description does seem to suggest a link. FM seems to associate Tight Marking with the more physical styles of play, so Italian Catenaccio, Mourinho-ball and old-fashioned English Kick n Rush. Unfortunately, the aspect of marking remains a bit neglected in FM - so we can't really tinker with the various forms of man-oriented pressing, man-oriented zonal marking, ball-oriented pressing etc. These various forms of marking make a real difference in today's game, but can't be replicated. My best guess would be: Use Tighter Marking if you have a particularly physical squad, with players capable of winning individual duels and you want to intimidate tricky little Spaniards by having defenders and ball-winning midfielders breathe into their neck for 90 minutes.

 

Also notice it says ''in defensive situations''. They wont track their opponents across the pitch. They will stay close to them once an opponent enters their individual defensive area of responsibility. So if you park your defensive block at 20 meters from your own goal, your players will probably not begin to tight-mark until opponents enter that area.

 

Disclaimer: I know nothing and this is my best guess. The question has bothered me since many FM versions though.

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That's an interesting point Gianni, so where the game is applying it is in tactics that utilize a defensive Low Block, which makes sense, you don't need to be as worried about your defenders getting beat for pace in that situation because there's no space for the attackers to run into, so you might as well get as tight as possible.

I could see it being a valuable TI if you're trying to see a game out against a superior opponent, i.e. a team where you can't play keep-ball.

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Which leads to the question of attributes. Does Marking correlate primarily to man to man only and Positioning affect a more zonal system? Clearly there are mental and physical stats at play also but similarly to the defender Strength vs attacker Balance 'dice roll' that many have alluded too on here, are there other one against another duels that make up the game? I'd assume Positioning and Off the Ball would directly compete against each other (again, other mental and physical and height/weight numbers etc not withstanding). My guess would be, I suppose, agility or balance against a tight marking approach?

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On 01/04/2019 at 23:38, rverdag2 said:

Maybe I'm wrong but I believe that behavior is more related to "closing down more" than to tight marking

Alright. How do I ask my player to aggressively closing down opponent, but as well ask them to be reasonable? Like only one or two player chasing opponent with the ball. Especially when I desperate for goal and the opponent is wasting time by keeping the ball, 3 or 4 player run directly to one opposition, leaving the central defence area just my keeper and their striker who just need a single through ball. 

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8 hours ago, Hanan96 said:

Alright. How do I ask my player to aggressively closing down opponent, but as well ask them to be reasonable? Like only one or two player chasing opponent with the ball. Especially when I desperate for goal and the opponent is wasting time by keeping the ball, 3 or 4 player run directly to one opposition, leaving the central defence area just my keeper and their striker who just need a single through ball. 

Pressing urgency refers more to how much do your players prioritize pressing over their other duties, such as marking or positional cover.

The intensity of that pressing is dictated primarily by the player's attributes - workrate, aggression and determination being key here.

My point is that if you have suitable players, you do not have to jack the pressing settings all the way up, particularly for your defenders.

And you need to accept the fact that just like their real life selves, a player with 5 aggression 11 determination and 9 workrate is going to press only halfheartedly regardless of your instructions.

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On 03/04/2019 at 21:56, SD said:

Pressing urgency refers more to how much do your players prioritize pressing over their other duties, such as marking or positional cover.

The intensity of that pressing is dictated primarily by the player's attributes - workrate, aggression and determination being key here.

My point is that if you have suitable players, you do not have to jack the pressing settings all the way up, particularly for your defenders.

And you need to accept the fact that just like their real life selves, a player with 5 aggression 11 determination and 9 workrate is going to press only halfheartedly regardless of your instructions.

What I'm asking isn't that. It's how to solve the issue that player left central area just to press Somebody on the wings with 3 other teammate. 

I think even lower division player won't do such things. Its really not sensible. 

The player causing me such problem is Johny Evans, Harry Maguire, Kristoph Ajer, Ricardo Pereira, James Madisson, Wilfred Ndidi, Robert Gummy whom most would have reasonable aggression. 

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The idea of aggressive pressing is precisely that 2 or 3 players try to encircle the ball carrier, make him commit an error. The idea is that players reduce the space around the ball, and the rest of the team shifts accordingly to cover the spaces they leave behind. Thats why collectivity is so important when pressing. If the players don't communicate or move together, gaps will emerge and the opponent will ''escape'' the press and it backfires. That's the reason why its mostly the big squads like Barcelona and Man City can pull it off, but not an average team.

 

What you are proposing, that one player closes down his direct opponent while the rest of the players hold their ground, is not ''pressing'', its simply slowing the opponent down. To keep your defensive shape fixed while only 1 player steps out of the defensive line, I'd try to reduce pressing urgency. If you want more aggression, you can always opt to instruct ''Get stuck in''. But in RL, take a look at Atletico's pressing down the wing. They try to encircle the ball carrier with a side-back, a wide-midfielder and their ball-near striker, pressing with 3 players while the rest of the team shifts to cover them. Pressing is done with the entire team, or not at all.

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24 minutes ago, Hanan96 said:

What I'm asking isn't that. It's how to solve the issue that player left central area just to press Somebody on the wings with 3 other teammate. 

I think even lower division player won't do such things. Its really not sensible

If you use counter-press, or high levels of pressing intensity, or even both at the same time, then such behavior is not surprising from your players. If you posted a screenshot of the tactic, we could analyze and find out where the problem probably lies. 

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20 minutes ago, Hanan96 said:

What I'm asking isn't that. It's how to solve the issue that player left central area just to press Somebody on the wings with 3 other teammate. 

I think even lower division player won't do such things. Its really not sensible. 

The player causing me such problem is Johny Evans, Harry Maguire, Kristoph Ajer, Ricardo Pereira, James Madisson, Wilfred Ndidi, Robert Gummy whom most would have reasonable aggression. 

The point I was arguing wasn't that aggression was the culprit, but rather pressing settings that are too high.

Your players prioritize pressuring the ball carrier and leave their positions as a result.

Things like formation or OIs can play a part here as well.

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Hello. I wanted to share my experiences from using 'tighter marking' as a general philosophy for the first time. I manage Celta, in my first season there (thire overall, 2020/ 21) I managed to finish fourth which was way better than I expected. I use 4-1-3-2 narrow formation with two central defebders on defend, wingback on attack or support on one side and halfback om support on the other. Then I have halfback and trio of carillero, bbm and mezzalla attack in the midfield and pressing forward support and complete forward attack up front. With such narrow formation I always make sure my defendrrs have good jumpong reach but this time both of my starters were also way better at markibg than tackling. So I decided to set my defense up with tighter marking and offside trap and also wider shape (pressing intensity not changed). I play on positive or balanced mentality and I usually use counter in transition (it wpuld be a waste not to with formation with two strikers) but also I play shorter passing so its not really the style of aggresive pressing and direct football. I usually control the game.

What I ve noticed at the beginning is that it was absolutely necessary for me to use counter press with this style. At the beginning i used restrict and what ended up happening was me losing a lot of goals after through balls. I was aroind 12th place and playing not well after like 8 games and that tactical change turned the season around. Now Im planning to make it a priority to keep employing players that are good at marking tk make this style even more effective.

So to conclude if you have good personnel for it (high marking stats) I encourage you to try. It can work. I also recommend using offside trap (quite obvious, with tighter marking defenders are closer so its easier for then to catch someone offside) and counter press. Best of luck.

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Is it better to use tighter marking for the whole team or just specific roles?  I am playing a cautious fluid counter formation but I see the opp have the ball in between my CDs and CMs, I was going to look at changing my of my CDs to stopper to push out into that space, but wondered if I changed my 2 x CDs and the defensive midfielder to tight marker as a PI would that work?

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2 hours ago, edhdurham said:

Is it better to use tighter marking for the whole team or just specific roles?

What is better (or worse) is always relative in FM, just as it is in RL football. There is no simple answer, because the context is what matters. Would tighter marking be a good idea in your tactic depends on how your tactic is set up as a whole, as well as your players' general strengths and weaknesses (both independently and relative to the opposition you play against).

Basically, I tend to avoid TM as a team instruction if:

- I play with a higher or much higher DL

- my defensive shape is not vertically compact enough

- I use a top-heavy formation (e.g. 4231, 424, narrow flat 433)

Otherwise, I may consider TM as a TI.

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If youre using a lower LOE and balanced defensive line, not really focused on high pressing or counter pressing, would it make sense to have tight marking? If I read this thread correctly it would seem that not using it would make the defense work better as a unit, but also I'm wondering if having players tight on the opposition would help with forcing turnovers in our half to start counters.

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3 minutes ago, mc22 said:

If youre using a lower LOE and balanced defensive line, not really focused on high pressing or counter pressing, would it make sense to have tight marking?

For me personally, that's exactly the situation in which I am the most inclined to use TM. Because I have good vertical compactness, which means my players can help one another more easily when defending, whereas non-high DL reduces the risk of a fast opposition forward losing his marker in plenty of space to exploit. But that still does not mean that I will use TM for sure. It just means I'll be more inclined to consider the instruction (taking other relevant factors into account as well). 

 

9 minutes ago, mc22 said:

also I'm wondering if having players tight on the opposition would help with forcing turnovers in our half to start counters

I generally prefer TM (sometimes even paired with aggressive tackling a.k.a Get stuck in) to more urgent pressing when I want to play counter-attacking football based on solid and packed defending. But as in the above case, I first need to consider a number of factors. For example, if the opposition are considerably faster than my team, aggressive defensive instructions - including the very TM - can be risky and do more harm than good.

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5 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

I generally prefer TM (sometimes even paired with aggressive tackling a.k.a Get stuck in) to more urgent pressing when I want to play counter-attacking football based on solid and packed defending. But as in the above case, I first need to consider a number of factors. For example, if the opposition are considerably faster than my team, aggressive defensive instructions - including the very TM - can be risky and do more harm than good.

The faster opposition is definitely going to be an issue, Skrtel isnt the fastest defender, and who ever I partner him with can't make all the runs back. They've been solid, so far, but curiously enough most of the goals conceded have been long shots getting deflected or free kicks, and not too many players getting in behind so not sure how if TM helps or hurts this. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, mc22 said:

The faster opposition is definitely going to be an issue, Skrtel isnt the fastest defender, and who ever I partner him with can't make all the runs back

While speed is important, it's not enough. Equally (and sometimes even more) important is intelligence of your defenders (anticipation, positioning, concentration, decisions...). 

Btw, it's not only about speed of your defenders vs. speed of their strikers, but speed on the team level. Because defending is a collective responsibility. In a defensively sound tactic, it's actually midfielders (and to a lesser degree forwards) who are supposed to do most of the defensive work.

 

1 hour ago, mc22 said:

They've been solid, so far, but curiously enough most of the goals conceded have been long shots getting deflected or free kicks, and not too many players getting in behind so not sure how if TM helps or hurts this

Hard/impossible to tell you anything concrete unless you post a screenshot of the tactic. An individual instruction alone means little (if anything).

Edited by Experienced Defender

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6 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

While speed is important, it's not enough. Equally (and sometimes even more) important is intelligence of your defenders (anticipation, positioning, concentration, decisions...). 

Btw, it's not only about speed of your defenders vs. speed of their strikers, but speed on the team level. Because defending is a collective responsibility. In a defensively sound tactic, it's actually midfielders (and to a lesser degree forwards) who are supposed to do most of the defensive work.

 

Hard/impossible to tell you anything concrete unless you post a screenshot of the tactic. An individual instruction alone means little (if anything).

Its still the tactic from this thread: 

 

 

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Haven't quite read through the whole thread but my take on it, and to differentiate the 'Tighter Marking' and Closing down instructions.

If you tight mark a player, you station your man close to him and staying close - he is harder to pass to and will/should receive less of the ball from his teammates.

If you set to Close Down or Press that player, you are letting him receive the ball, but as soon as he gets it you are pressing hard and making it difficult for him to do anything with.

So, when used as Team Instruction, you are telling all your players to Tight Mark or to Close Down the nearest opponent with the above effects. 

Hence why, when pressing hard, you sometimes see two or three (even four) players Closing Down an opponent.

So, in an ideal match when you set the team instruction 'Mark Tighter' what happens when you lose possession is that your players 'attach' themselves to the nearest opponent and stay with them - making them an unsuitable target for a pass to feet. You have removed most of the opponent's passing options and all they can really do is pass into space and hope you are beaten for pace.

When you use Close Down or Intensive Pressing, when you lose possession, your players stand off a little more and close down the player that has the ball - so rather than preventing the pass you are letting him receive the ball but THEN making it hard for him to use it.  

 

AS with nearly all things in FM there are pros and cons and compromises to be made.

'Tighter Marking' affects your defensive shape - your players will follow the player they are marking. You will need players with good positioning and anticipation as well as stamina. I think Agility is useful among others. You can end up being pulled out of shape and the space that opens up leaves you vulnerable.

Closing Down or High Intensity Pressing can keep your shape a bit better but you are letting the opponent have the ball before reacting. A good technical opponent can beat the press with First Touch and your players need good Anticipation, Stamina, Acceleration and Work Rate.

Closing Down and Get Stuck In combination can be effective if you have players who can tackle but again a technical opponent with First Touch can skip past it.

TL:DR

Tight Marking makes it difficult for the opponent to pass to the player being marked.

Close Down lets the opponent receive the ball but you than make it difficult for him to use it.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, mc22 said:

Its still the tactic from this thread: 

 

 

A 4231? In that case, I would rather avoid tight marking. But even apart from TM, your 4231 tactic does not look defensively solid enough to me. 

Edited by Experienced Defender

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26 minutes ago, Snorks said:

'Tighter Marking' affects your defensive shape - your players will follow the player they are marking . . .

Closing Down or High Intensity Pressing can keep your shape a bit better

Actually, the opposite is true. Intensive (more urgent) pressing compromises defensive shape more than tight marking, because high-intensity pressing encourages players to step out of position to press the opponent with the ball as early as possible. And it will often be more than just one player closing the opponent down.

Tight marking as a team instruction on the other hand tells the players to try and tightly mark an opponent only when he enters their (respective) zone(s) of defensive responsibility. Unlike specific marking, where a specific player is told to mark a specific opposition player, regardless of where he is at the moment.

Otherwise, I agree with your post :thup:

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58 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

A 4231? In that case, I would rather avoid tight marking. But even apart from TM, your 4231 tactic does not look defensively solid enough to me. 

I'll try a few games without it, but to be fair its fairly solid to be honest, give up a good amount of shots but few on target and alot of blocks by my defenders. As I've said, the occasional long shot or free kick sneaks in, so it could just be my keeper

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Actually, the opposite is true. Intensive (more urgent) pressing compromises defensive shape more than tight marking, because high-intensity pressing encourages players to step out of position to press the opponent with the ball as early as possible. And it will often be more than just one player closing the opponent down.

Tight marking as a team instruction on the other hand tells the players to try and tightly mark an opponent only when he enters their (respective) zone(s) of defensive responsibility. Unlike specific marking, where a specific player is told to mark a specific opposition player, regardless of where he is at the moment.

Otherwise, I agree with your post :thup:

Yeah can see where you are coming from, but pressing happens when the ball is present, once it is moved on the defender reverts to position. Marking happens whether the ball is there or not, with the defender following his marker and will get pulled further out of position for longer.

While both pull players, or tempt them to step out of position, they tend to revert to shape quicker with pressing than marking. The zone of influence can make more than one player step out of formation to press which is an issue in the ME for me,

Of course, these are 'tendencies' and much depends on the type of player, decision-making and other attributes as well as so much more :-)

In my approach, I tend to Close Down more than tight mark as a TI, with one or two opponents Marked as an OI. I only ever use the TI Tighter Marking in the last few minutes holding on to the result. Very, very rarely do I give a player instructions to mark a particular opponent as they are, in effect, seemingly pulled out of your formation and go chasing the opponent all over the pitch. (Id I do use that, it's my DM given the task).

 

In this case and talking about a 4231 then probably never us TM as a TI - unless I can keep the MCs and DCs holding position.

Edited by Snorks

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