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tedthelabrador

Are JPA, JPP and Working with Youngsters largely unimportant for a HoYD?

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If you have good youth coaches and scouts are JPA, JPP and Working with Youngsters unimportant for a HoYD? Should I just focus on personality?

Edited by tedthelabrador

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Honestly all these things are just for show. Trust me they do very little to nothing. Just ignore the youth training and youth coaches/scouts. Not worth the time to waste

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20 minutes ago, Minotti said:

Honestly all these things are just for show. Trust me they do very little to nothing. Just ignore the youth training and youth coaches/scouts. Not worth the time to waste

If you'd like to know more about what these things actually do, just ask.  They're not for show.

4 hours ago, tedthelabrador said:

If you have good youth coaches and scouts are JPA, JPP and Working with Youngsters unimportant for a HoYD? Should I just focus on personality?

An HoYD brings young players into your club and has a direct impact on their quality.  Further, some or all of his personality may get passed on to these players, although young players can always be tutored to improve it.

The HoYD is also a coach for your Youth team.  As such, decent coaching attributes will be useful, as will a good rating for Working with Youngsters.

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I had a very average HOYD with a fairly determined personality before bringing in a stud HOYD with a perfectionist personality thinking this would improve my youth intake's personalities.  Sadly I'm seeing the same awful personalities of unambitious, tempermental, balanced, etc...

I hired this new HOYD a year ago, but could it take longer for him to affect my youth intake?

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6 minutes ago, Tcufrog said:

I had a very average HOYD with a fairly determined personality before bringing in a stud HOYD with a perfectionist personality thinking this would improve my youth intake's personalities.  Sadly I'm seeing the same awful personalities of unambitious, tempermental, balanced, etc...

I hired this new HOYD a year ago, but could it take longer for him to affect my youth intake?

No it won't take longer.

However, there are no guarantees and only part of the newgen personality may be affected.  So just because your HoYD might be a Model Professional for example, that doesn't mean loads of newgens will be Model Pros.  You may get one/two/a few, you may get just some aspects of their personality changed.  You may get nothing happening at all - you're only improving your chances of something happening not guaranteeing it.

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5 minutes ago, herne79 said:

No it won't take longer.

However, there are no guarantees and only part of the newgen personality may be affected.  So just because your HoYD might be a Model Professional for example, that doesn't mean loads of newgens will be Model Pros.  You may get one/two/a few, you may get just some aspects of their personality changed.  You may get nothing happening at all - you're only improving your chances of something happening not guaranteeing it.

Got it, thanks for the explanation. What else goes into this variance? Just curious as I’m always trying to get young players to have the best personalities at the youngest age possible. Would love to understand if there’s anything else I can do. Thanks!

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15 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said:

There's a very good thread about the HoYD here

Thank you, I've read this info a few times over as well as other articles and it seems like there still arent clear explanations as to why some intakes are full of dud personalities while some are more prosperous.  wasn't sure if there were any tips or tricks anyone would like to share as I typically look for a HOYD with the best personality followed by JPA/JPP/WWY and of course preferred formation

 

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I look for personality, WWY and coaching attributes as I think the HoYD is an important member of the coaching team. Only then do I look at JPA/JPP. I don't bother with preferred formation at all.

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16 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said:

I look for personality, WWY and coaching attributes as I think the HoYD is an important member of the coaching team. Only then do I look at JPA/JPP. I don't bother with preferred formation at all.

Interesting... so you value WWY simply for the coaching aspect?  I manage 1860 Munich and have them in the first division now so have plenty of coaches.  therefore, for me, i'd rather have a greater impact on regen personalities than one more coach

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Is it better to have a HoYD from the same country, or one with knowledge of your country? Or is it not a big deal? I’m managing Tottenham and found a German HoYD I like, but he has nothing knowledge wise for England. 

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Tcufrog: No, I value WWY as a stand alone for HoYD not only because of its value in coaching. I think that it’s self evident that he is must be good with youngsters. As to the coaching aspect, It seems to be easier to find a HoYD who is a, say, 4* coach than it to find 4* youth coaches. Therefore I think he can significantly improve the quality of the youth training.

Edited by Hovis Dexter
Added reference to Tcufrog

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2 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Would you be able to tell us the accurate information then?

What would you like to know?

I'm on holiday for two weeks now, so I may not be able to reply accurately/promptly, but @herne79 should be able to help you if I cannot.

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2 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Would you be able to tell us the accurate information then?

Your best bet is to ask away the mods here have the right answers and where we are in doubt we refer to the devs who always help. I am busy prepping for a baby delivery.

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1. Does the preferred formation affect the youth players that come through each year, and does it mean some kinds of players never come through?

2. Does the preferred playing style also affect anything?

 

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35 minutes ago, YouthGrowth said:

1. Does the preferred formation affect the youth players that come through each year, and does it mean some kinds of players never come through?

2. Does the preferred playing style also affect anything?

 

1. Yes.  A HoYD's preferred formation may influence the positions of newgen players.  So you may get less wingers if his preferred formation is a narrow diamond for example.

2.  Yes.  A HoYD's style can influence newgen attributes.  For example, a more technical HoYD may help produce more technically minded newgens.

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For what it's worth, I prefer a good personality and media handling over actual stats. Both those aspects are the only way (without editors and such) to know the hidden stats of a player/staff. Things like personality, determination and ambition, the three most important things for talents to have. At least it affects their improvement and how close to their potential they are likely to get. A long while ago I bookmarked a thread to remember how personality and media handling works. While I've noticed some small changes, it doesn't seem to be too far off even now. Warning: It may contain certain spoilers for those hidden stats, or at least ways to calculate them.

Concentrating on the personality I now have a HoYD with a "Professional" personality, "Unflappable" media handling and determination of 17. My youth intakes are regularly giving me good personalities with a lot of Resolute, Driven and Fairly Professional (oddly I haven't gotten a single "Professional" yet...) and even a Model Citizen!

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On 2018-03-16 at 17:37, herne79 said:

If you'd like to know more about what these things actually do, just ask.  They're not for show.

 

 

I was stating based on my multiple years of playing FM. In every addition I have a save where I use the in game editor. Trust me, Ive tried having all my souts with 20 in everything important for them as well as other staffs attributes. I also gave the team 20 in training facility, youth recruit etc. It really didnt make much if at all, difference. But feel free to enlighten me...with concrete evidence that is

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All of that may not be "for show" in a strict sense, but the quality of the youth intake is MORE dependent on:

1) Nation's Youth Rating (fixed)
1b) Importance/Development (ie. how important football is in the country, and its development status)

2) Your Club's Youth Recruitment (and Junior Coaching)

Only THEN, whoever is in charge of bringing new youth players into the club is finally involved.

Meaning that if you're managing in a nation where football is Unimportant and Underdeveloped, with a Youth Rating of 60, you're bound to get a plethora of stinkers, even though you've won 10 Champions Leagues (with all-foreign squads) and you've hired the best HoYD.

Actually, you can have other staff in charge for that position (DoF?), so I wouldn't get too hung up on what the best profile for the HoYD is...

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Ive done this for barca, man utd and juventus. Yea, didnt see much more difference than when the AI has them and Id say worse teams gets better talents than I do, despite having all of that.

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16 hours ago, Minotti said:

 

I was stating based on my multiple years of playing FM. In every addition I have a save where I use the in game editor. Trust me, Ive tried having all my souts with 20 in everything important for them as well as other staffs attributes. I also gave the team 20 in training facility, youth recruit etc. It really didnt make much if at all, difference. But feel free to enlighten me...with concrete evidence that is

 

On ‎16‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 17:24, herne79 said:

No it won't take longer.

However, there are no guarantees and only part of the newgen personality may be affected.  So just because your HoYD might be a Model Professional for example, that doesn't mean loads of newgens will be Model Pros.  You may get one/two/a few, you may get just some aspects of their personality changed.  You may get nothing happening at all - you're only improving your chances of something happening not guaranteeing it.

 

On ‎16‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 16:37, herne79 said:

An HoYD brings young players into your club and has a direct impact on their quality.  Further, some or all of his personality may get passed on to these players, although young players can always be tutored to improve it.

As you can see from my previous posts, improving the quality of your HoYD can improve the chances of getting better quality newgens, but there are no guarantees.  Likewise this also applies to the rest of your Youth set up - better facilities and so on can improve the chances of getting better newgens, but not guarantee it.  It's perfectly possible that with the best Youth set up you'll sometimes receive only mediocre newgens - but the chance of you getting better newgens is more than if you have a poorer quality set up (other factors such as the country you are managing in not withstanding).

That may not be the concrete evidence which you are after, but that's how the game is designed.  If your experience is consistently different and you have examples from multiple saves and multiple youth intakes where you believe none of this happened, please do upload your saves and open a new thread in the bugs forum.  Detail of how to upload your saves can also be found there.

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On ‎17‎-‎03‎-‎2018 at 23:21, ThePoacher said:

Is there any known difference in allowing a General Manager to control the youth intake?

It comes down to his attributes. The logic is the same as for the HOYD. Be wary of their preferred formation, personality, coaching attributes, and working with youngsters. If he is good in these fields, that will increase the chances of a strong youth intake.

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On 3/16/2018 at 20:26, Hovis Dexter said:

I look for personality, WWY and coaching attributes as I think the HoYD is an important member of the coaching team. Only then do I look at JPA/JPP. I don't bother with preferred formation at all.

Ooh, another Freelancer head here! Loving it! :D

 

As for the thread OP - come over at FootballManagerNow and read Ben's FM stories, this guy is just brilliant. I learned an amazing great deal from him when it comes to youth development and also you get to see many examples of his ideas across, because his game-longitivity is about 40-50 seasons usually. He's always looking for that Model Citizen HoYD :D

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On 3/16/2018 at 11:31, Tcufrog said:

Got it, thanks for the explanation. What else goes into this variance? Just curious as I’m always trying to get young players to have the best personalities at the youngest age possible. Would love to understand if there’s anything else I can do. Thanks!

Some of it is just based on the nation.

There's defined ranges for adaptability, professionalism, etc. that you can see if you use the in game editor while viewing a nation.  It also shows the general youth rating of the country.

Of course these are just averages. A place may be "poor" for adaptability, but that doesn't stop your intake from having adaptable players.

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