Tactical Challenges #1: The Poacher

[zlatanera]

Yeah the CAR is a theoretical match for the MEZZ - when the latter bursts forward the former should be able to cover the space given his movement is primarily lateral. Extra defend duty in midfield seemed redundant. 

He's had one start so far, but made a game-saving assist before. I preferred Gabriele Gori as a Poacher because he's local and Quagliarella as a CF because of his technical and mentals, but the latter rapidly declined so he'll get a look in. I would strongly advise breaking the bank to get in Federico Chiesa, he's taken to being a striker as if it was in his blood or something...

[craigd84]

I too prefer locals.

 

Ah I see about the CAR. Nice idea. I may try it.

 

Chiesa has been on my hitlist since the start of my save but he went to spurs before I could afford him.

[zlatanera]

2019/20: this sieve's on fire, Sportiello's terrified!

Technically this season is another success by the criteria of the challenge - a 10th place finish and Coppa Italia quarter finals meets board expectations, and my poacher Giovanni Simeone is once again our top scorer with 30 goals in all competitions (4 penaltys) with 26 in the league making him capocannoniere runner up.

Although leaving my front three (Poacher, Complete Forward (su), Trequartista) intact I started out playing a Sweeper system, then changed that to a Libero as I couldn't bridge the gap in midfield. Finally I've ended up with a Half Back and a tactic I really like, with the shift away from radical non-possession (2017-18 lowest possession stats in the league) finally bringing the Trequartista into play getting us closer to the Batigol-Montella-Totti combo I was after. 

The title of the post is due to the fact that whilst our front three were, indeed, on fire: 30 goals 5 assists (Simeone), 20 goals 18 assists (Chiesa), 6 goals 10 assists (Saponara) and we scored the 2nd most goals in the league (68 to champions Juventus' 73), we also conceded 62 (only the bottom four conceded more). A ridiculous home loss 4-0 to Napoli aside however, this is the most solid tactic I've had yet - we conceded a ton in the first half of the season before the HB came in - with a tendency to go down to absolute screamers on Simeone's frequent off days. He did seem to be putting together some consistency so perhaps the trait will go away. 

I honestly reckon if I'd been playing this tactic from the start I would have made Europe in my first season - if I can hold onto my strikeforce (although some regens mean Simeone isn't that vital despite his record) and get another Half Back (all Kempf's replacements are too short and I have seen each of them miss a header leading to a goal) I might finally get some success. Barring either catastrophe or ridiculous levels of success I think I'll take to posting in the Team Guides section about how I get on now, rather than clogging up this thread with all the minutiae of the save. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by zlatanera

[craigd84]

Great to read pal, glad the half back is paying off for you. I think swapping out the CAR for a DLP D may help reduce the goals against.

I got lucky with my half back. He was a natural BWM but trained him to half back, his positioning is now 19. I will upload a shot of him later.

[Cal585]

How does the halfback work? When I tried it with wingbacks my centre backs split wide but the halfback stayed up leaving a hole in the middle.

I've tried using the poacher a few times but I tend to revert back to advanced forward

[zlatanera]

1 hour ago, craigd84 said:

Great to read pal, glad the half back is paying off for you. I think swapping out the CAR for a DLP D may help reduce the goals against.

I got lucky with my half back. He was a natural BWM but trained him to half back, his positioning is now 19. I will upload a shot of him later.

Yeah that's definitely my backup plan as all of my CAR options are also natural as DLP anyway. But I'm hoping if I can coax some consistency out of Simeone (or sell him to raise funds for a new HB) I may be ok. My best HB option only has 10 Concentration which is worrying. My results against the top teams were really great (5-0 and 3-1 against Roma, 6-2 against Inter, 0-4 to Napoli, 4-2 against Lazio, 1-1 at Milan, 3-1 against Juventus) but there seemed to be far too many absolute worldies scored by smaller teams, and a few cock-ups by individuals who I'm selling. 

1 hour ago, Cal585 said:

How does the halfback work? When I tried it with wingbacks my centre backs split wide but the halfback stayed up leaving a hole in the middle.

I've tried using the poacher a few times but I tend to revert back to advanced forward

Do you have any screenshots of this? If its a real issue perhaps make a separate thread so people can look at it, maybe his behaviour is affected by the positions around him, or maybe its just wrong (like how we all have to use wing-backs rather than full-backs in order to make the centre backs split, even when the full back duties carry them forward anyway).

To be honest my Poacher seems to behave how I'd expect AF (my least-used role probably, alongside Poacher until this came along) to play - he still plays football, just mostly focussed on goalscoring. That may be due to having good teamwork and work rate though.

[craigd84]

Great results.

 

As for the halfback staying forward it may be a PPM it maybe linked to your mentality. Some times mine goes forwards but he mostly sits with or in ront of the cbs

Edited March 16, 2018 by craigd84

[craigd84]

 

Another game where the poacher scores more than 3. The Totti Batigol Montella link is superb.

 

My keeper made two mistakes otherwise we were solid.

[craigd84]

This isn' me saying it's over powered or a cheat tactic but when it works well it works beautifully. 

 

I would sooner watch my Roma 01 02 tactic over any cheat tactic.

 

My Poacher has 20 in 15 games now. My Poacher of last season Cavani had 21 all season.

Edited March 17, 2018 by craigd84

[herne79]

1 hour ago, craigd84 said:

This isn' me saying it's over powered or a cheat tactic but when it works well it works beautifully. 

I would sooner watch my Roma 01 02 tactic over any cheat tactic.

My Poacher has 20 in 15 games now. My Poacher of last season Cavani had 21 all season.

Great when it all comes together isn't it .

[craigd84]

Definitely. I feel you need that season to get all your desired PPMS on board plus fluidity despite it saying fluid it is always better the next season.

[herne79]

2 minutes ago, craigd84 said:

Definitely. I feel you need that season to get all your desired PPMS on board plus fluidity despite it saying fluid it is always better the next season.

This is the thing - you've had a plan from the outset and stuck to it.  You've taken some inspiration from real life and applied some basic principles to how you want to play.  You've then stuck to your guns when it wasn't working quite how you wanted it to and moulded your team accordingly.  So yeh, it's not over powered or a cheat tactic, it's just you developing your system based on something you liked from real life and calmly developing it over a period of time.  Good job.

[craigd84]

Tell you what... I STILL am not sure how I want my Mezzala to work.. even though its normally getting a 7.

I suppose I'm lucky in a sense I have at least 5 players who play that role differently. My fav so far has been Nicolo Barella who I highly recommend.

 

My poacher currently is perfect.. my favouite thing about him is that for 60 mins a game he could be on a 6.1 then all of a sudden he scores haha. Reminds me of poachers of old... out of the game for most of it then wham... a goal.

Edited March 17, 2018 by craigd84

[Brian]

Decided to give this one a go to improve my tactical views in Football Manager. 

Dundee United

Why Dundee? Well, this was the team I already had chosen to start my last long term save in FM18 with (not bound to one club). It was a bit harder to establish a squad with Dundee with this challenge because they don't really have a superb poacher. That why I went on the market with no money. Yeah.. I know. 

 

Formation

I already had a formation that I wanted to build on as my goal is to replicate Total Football to it's perfection. Starting slow with first building the possession around the team. You can reflect it in real life with the likes of Louis van Gaal.

This was my first initial formation to start with after the 4-1-2-3 or 4-3-3 got overrun against Vitesse Arhnem in pre-season. With this challenge, I kept my initial vision of keeping the ball in our team trying to average 55% - 60% possession per match as a starting point. 

Not much changed, only the attacking playmaker became a Trequarista behind my strikers. The idea is that the Deep Lying Forward drops deeper to drag players with him to make gaps for the Poacher to run into. *
*This is still only a starting formation to build on.

Meet the Players

Poacher

Spoiler

Deep Lying Forward

Spoiler

Trequarista 

Spoiler

 

Will update through out the season, the first challenge for me was to qualify for the next round of the Betfred Cup. We did with one game to spare. Now bring on the season. 

Edited March 17, 2018 by Brian

[the SLC]

right another attempt. went for 442 diamond as i dont have many wingers.

cwb to offer width.

cbs basic and simple.

anchorman to protect defenders. 

roaming playmaker to find the pass and late runs.

bwm support to try and win the ball back

treq to drop deep and link play. also to cause chaos in the oppos half as he looks for space. counting on him to deliver som killer passes. 

f9 to hopefully drag defenders out of position

poacher to fill that space and receive those killer passes. fingers crossed.

team instructions are simple for now. can alter these as i see the games play out.

went for a movement with the central mids and amc due to the anchorman but again can alter if things dont go to plan

 

thoughts and advice welcome. need to get that poacher scoring!!

 

[craigd84]

23 minutes ago, the SLC said:

right another attempt. went for 442 diamond as i dont have many wingers.

cwb to offer width.

cbs basic and simple.

anchorman to protect defenders. 

roaming playmaker to find the pass and late runs.

bwm support to try and win the ball back

treq to drop deep and link play. also to cause chaos in the oppos half as he looks for space. counting on him to deliver som killer passes. 

f9 to hopefully drag defenders out of position

poacher to fill that space and receive those killer passes. fingers crossed.

team instructions are simple for now. can alter these as i see the games play out.

went for a movement with the central mids and amc due to the anchorman but again can alter if things dont go to plan

 

thoughts and advice welcome. need to get that poacher scoring!!

 

You may want to consider pushing your full backs up into the wingback position. Your formation looks a lot like mine in that respect. 

Also in your F9 slot... the CF on support maybe best especially with moves into channels. He will provide crosses to your poacher and Treq. 

Edited March 17, 2018 by craigd84

[the SLC]

1 minute ago, craigd84 said:

You may want to consider pushing your full backs up into the wingback position. Your formation looks a lot like mine in that respect. 

Also in your F9 slot... the CF on support maybe best especially with moves into channels. He will provide crosses to your poacher and Treq. 

have played 4 games, won 2 

2-0 v barcelona

0-3 v bournemouth

the 2x 0-0 my poacher hasnt scored one goal. 

can try the cf on support.

not really sure what the problem is. my poacher seems to be getting in the space. maybe its too crowded, may use more rigid roles in cm area.

[craigd84]

Thing is, a poacher needs a lot of different service. Well in my opinion. 

The Treq offers from deep central, the CF offers from the side, and both my wingbacks offer from the deep sides. 

Combine that with the fact i use a DLP on D and MeZ on support thats another TWO offering supply from a decentral location PPM's permitting.

[the SLC]

i won last game 2-1 poacher getting his 1st goal. 

i will change the f9 to cfs and i have changed the roaming playmaker to a cms 

[craigd84]

Nice, CM's is nice, its a good jack of all trades role. I use MEZ simply because i like how it works.

[the SLC]

3 minutes ago, craigd84 said:

Nice, CM's is nice, its a good jack of all trades role. I use MEZ simply because i like how it works.

trying to keep things simple with the roles for now.

last game won 6-0 v swansea. poacher got 3 goals

[the SLC]

another win another goal for my poacher. will stick with until rest of season and see how it goes

[Brian]

Playing Celtic at Celtic Park

Drawing Celtic in the first elimination round of the Betfred Cup, it was never going to be easy. But to win a cup or league you need to be able to defeat anyone at any time. So for the start of the game we didn't chance anything from our set up and let the game play out. 

During the game I seemed to notice that Kaj was getting the first ball from midfield so swapped him with the Deep Lying Forward. It helped and the first chance after the change Keating got the ball and passed it to Kaj to make it level. Dembele's brilliance sealed the game before half time and after 80 minutes I decided to go full out but failed short. 

Can't blame the team because they did what I asked them to do and within my vision. 

Passes completed

More possession away at Celtic Park. 

Big difference, we didn't pass for the sake of passing but waited to get goalscoring opportunities.

What I really learned from this game was that I can't be mad that I lost like I used to. My team did precisely what I asked them to do. Keep possession even against the thoughts opponents and even away. This is more satisfying than completely adapt and trow away your vision and win. 

Like a wise man once said:

Quote

It's better to go down with your own vision than with someone else's.  -  Johan Cruyff 

 

Edited March 17, 2018 by Brian
Typo.

[yonko]

1 hour ago, the SLC said:

right another attempt. went for 442 diamond as i dont have many wingers.

cwb to offer width.

cbs basic and simple.

anchorman to protect defenders. 

roaming playmaker to find the pass and late runs.

bwm support to try and win the ball back

treq to drop deep and link play. also to cause chaos in the oppos half as he looks for space. counting on him to deliver som killer passes. 

f9 to hopefully drag defenders out of position

poacher to fill that space and receive those killer passes. fingers crossed.

team instructions are simple for now. can alter these as i see the games play out.

went for a movement with the central mids and amc due to the anchorman but again can alter if things dont go to plan

 

thoughts and advice welcome. need to get that poacher scoring!!

 

 

58 minutes ago, the SLC said:

i won last game 2-1 poacher getting his 1st goal. 

i will change the f9 to cfs and i have changed the roaming playmaker to a cms 

 

52 minutes ago, the SLC said:

trying to keep things simple with the roles for now.

last game won 6-0 v swansea. poacher got 3 goals

I was going to reply that you have too much going on with RPM, Treq and F9. But I see that you are already changing some of the roles and is working for you better.

Car and Mez would be a good combo in midfield to consider. You can turn the fullback on the side of the Poacher into WB-A so his focus is to provide crosses to him. Have the BWM or CAR on the same side. One the other side, have a Mezzala on Attack to combine with the fullback and the CF. Also, you can afford to have Arthur as DLP - D with close down less - he will still sit in as Anchor Man but with extra role to spray the ball around when in possession.

Grimaldo = WB-A

Aurier = WB-S

Arthur = DLP-D

Matic = CAR or BWM-S as MCL

Pogba = Mezz - Attack MCR

[the SLC]

16 hours ago, yonko said:

 

 

I was going to reply that you have too much going on with RPM, Treq and F9. But I see that you are already changing some of the roles and is working for you better.

Car and Mez would be a good combo in midfield to consider. You can turn the fullback on the side of the Poacher into WB-A so his focus is to provide crosses to him. Have the BWM or CAR on the same side. One the other side, have a Mezzala on Attack to combine with the fullback and the CF. Also, you can afford to have Arthur as DLP - D with close down less - he will still sit in as Anchor Man but with extra role to spray the ball around when in possession.

Grimaldo = WB-A

Aurier = WB-S

Arthur = DLP-D

Matic = CAR or BWM-S as MCL

Pogba = Mezz - Attack MCR

cheers will give it a go

[Jean0987654321]

I'm going in to this challenge

This guy is gonna be my main poacher and Martial will back him up.

And this tactic is based on Sir Alex post-Ronaldo. Rooney behind a poacher like Chicharo or RVP. Unfortunately, Chicharo won't be available yet.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Jean0987654321

[zlatanera]

 

So I've been sacked.

Worst thing - the game that clinched my sacking was a 3-2 loss away to Juventus, with the winner scored by Bernardeschi, after an attempting clearance at the byline deflected off an opponent all the way to the penalty spot for him to finish. I was offered both Milan jobs earlier in the season so I'm hoping to get a decent job, particularly as Inter were actually below me still in 12th despite their changing managers. So this was the tactic:

I went Control for home games and Counter for away games and tough opponents (unless they were out of form as at least one big Serie A club always is). A run of three 2-2 draws in a row, only one of which (Milan) I wouldn't have backed us to win easily made me decide to try and shore up the midfield by changing the CAR to DLP-D, which initially worked but I think that was Chiesa just being in good run of form. We then saw our possession and shots go up, but not shots on target. I think perhaps I had left Chiesa without enough options so he ended up shooting from distance a lot as he seemed to be the main culprit. Also I've never seen a Sweeper Keeper actually make any mistakes like this - I would count either him getting tackled, or mis-placing a clearance leading directly to a goal (he was a fan of heading away a long ball but only as far as the onrushing striker) at least 10 times. When I changed the DLP back to CAR performances did improve but between his idiocy and conceding a ludicrous goal (The Bernardeschi one) and an outstanding one (Pjanic doing a Scholes impression volleying a cleared corner in the top corner) we ended up losing when the board had given me 5 games to get 9 points (considering those games were Empoli, Palermo, Lazio, Juventus, Napoli always a tough ask). Still, we weren't unlucky all the time. I did find it weird that the board expected a Europa League place after two consecutive 10th place finishes (the latter worse than the former) and a £27m profit from a mid-table squad.

Anyway, two things: recommendations of teams to try this challenge with? Hints on what to do to make my tactic work?

Edited March 26, 2018 by zlatanera

[herne79]

16 minutes ago, zlatanera said:

Hints on what to do to make my tactic work?

Not necessarily hints, but I do have a couple of questions:

1)  You change mentality often, do you keep all the other tactical instructions the same?  If you do, why?

2)  Why have your left/right backs in the WBL/R positions?  Why have them that high when you are defending with just 2 central defenders?

[zlatanera]

30 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Not necessarily hints, but I do have a couple of questions:

1)  You change mentality often, do you keep all the other tactical instructions the same?  If you do, why?

2)  Why have your left/right backs in the WBL/R positions?  Why have them that high when you are defending with just 2 central defenders?

1) Sometimes in big games I would add "More Direct Passing" but otherwise keep them the same. Reasoning that I should expect to be under significant pressure (hence Counter) and shouldn't waste time when I have the ball (Direct) but leave the rest the same as I don't think it would help fluidity if we're constantly changing everything. And against teams that I think around around our level I leave it all the same as its just about making us slightly more risk-averse as I've noticed a bigger difference between how teams play against me home vs. away in this FM.

2) I believe this is the only way to ensure the centre backs split when using the Half Back role? 

 

EDIT: I failed upwards into the Napoli job at the end of the season but considering Insigne and Koulibaly both want to leave and I couldn't sort them out, probably won't stick to it for now. WIll be good to have that to return to though, most of my other saves I've left at a sort of natural end point whereas this is more of a reboot. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by zlatanera

[isignedupfornorealreason]

On 10/03/2018 at 16:56, herne79 said:

Absolutely spot on, the classic Target Man / Poacher combo and if I were playing, say, West Ham then Hernandez / Carroll could be an awesome duo.

But I'm not West Ham, I'm Dortmund, and if there is one thing that Dortmund lacks it's a Target Man.  So I'm choosing a different way - creativity and variety. 

Funny you say that.

 

I am West Ham, and I play Hernandez up top as a poacher/AF, with Lanzini behind as the Treq.  No big men allowed up top for me!  

[herne79]

3 hours ago, zlatanera said:

1) Sometimes in big games I would add "More Direct Passing" but otherwise keep them the same. Reasoning that I should expect to be under significant pressure (hence Counter) and shouldn't waste time when I have the ball (Direct) but leave the rest the same as I don't think it would help fluidity if we're constantly changing everything. And against teams that I think around around our level I leave it all the same as its just about making us slightly more risk-averse as I've noticed a bigger difference between how teams play against me home vs. away in this FM.

Changing mentality from Control to Counter is a big change.  It changes a whole heap of things - your risk profile, individual player mentality and many different team instructions.  If you don't change anything else (except sometimes passing length) have you tested to make sure all your tactical settings - team instructions, player roles & duties, team shape, PIs (if there are any) - still give you a balanced tactic?

3 hours ago, zlatanera said:

2) I believe this is the only way to ensure the centre backs split when using the Half Back role? 

Whether it does or it doesn't, the trade off is the defensive positioning of your fullbacks with 2 central defenders.  If it were a back 3 then not a problem, it just concerns me a little with 2 CDs.

[Jean0987654321]

 

Good start

[zlatanera]

8 hours ago, herne79 said:

Changing mentality from Control to Counter is a big change.  It changes a whole heap of things - your risk profile, individual player mentality and many different team instructions.  If you don't change anything else (except sometimes passing length) have you tested to make sure all your tactical settings - team instructions, player roles & duties, team shape, PIs (if there are any) - still give you a balanced tactic?

Whether it does or it doesn't, the trade off is the defensive positioning of your fullbacks with 2 central defenders.  If it were a back 3 then not a problem, it just concerns me a little with 2 CDs.

So basically I've been a bit stupid haha. I've kind of done what Van Gaal did after Leicester beat him - panicked, tried to make everyone more cautious and dogmatically stick to it despite it not really working. I'm wondering if language might have played a minor part in my poor defending on Control at the start of the season - had two Serbian CBs (one speaks fluent Italian, one spoke none), and Italian full backs and goalkeeper - that lead me to panic and start using Counter a lot more than I perhaps should have. 

Yeah if I revisit the tactic once I've done my uni work, then one of my adjustments may have to be using another DM role so I can pull them fullbacks further back. 

[Brian]

Mid-season reports

In the competition table we are doing what we are supposed to do, promote as favourites for the title. Although things are going well, I'm frustrated that in all 3 matches against number #2 St. Mirren we lost 1-2/2-1. Could have gone 9-12 points clear at this point as 3 out of 4 losses came from St. Mirren.. 

 

Poacher

Kaj Sierhuis is a great player, but he isn't convincing me in this save as the main poacher. Going to be though next season due to absolute no budget. Still thinking if I should loan him another season.. He puts 55% of his shots on target, which is OK. Only he scores just around 1 out of 4 chances. 

 

[Jellico73]

This is Tom Ashton:

He's been my primary scorer in My Dafuge Challenge save with Enfield Town, playing a Poacher on the left side.

My two primary formations have been a 3-4-3, with a P-DF-AF top three, and a 4-4-2 with a P-AF partnership up top.

Honestly, does this look like a player who has had 91 goals, 54 Assists, 22 POM's and a 7.29 rating over the last 119 games?

I use very few instructions (Less Dribbling, work ball into box, direct passing), play on the control or the attack, use very few, if any PPMs, but in his best season he had 40 goals and 23(!) assists.

Course the last three years I've also been top 2 in scoring and bottom 2 in defending, but I'm working on the defending bit...

Jellico73

 

Edited March 20, 2018 by Jellico73

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Good to hear of more successes.

 

I'm keeping an eye out for the ambitious individual who plays a single striker formation with the poacher. 

[the SLC]

right attempt 157!

442 

not a bog standard one. i heard recently that whilst on paper fergie used a 442. i heard that he was quoted saying he never used a 442 in his life. not sure how true this is but it got me thinking.

still unsure on some roles and players here goes

gk standard with slow pace down and roll it out.

cwb attack no ppms. to move up and down creating width.

2x cbs standard no ppms.

iwb support. to move in to space vacated by cm a hopefully offer stabiity and options

inverted winger left sided. to do similar to the iwb but more of an attacking option.

dwr. to move back and forth offering crosses whilst still being defensive.

left sided central mid gone for a dlp defend. drop deep to offer stability and to leave space for the inverted winger. still capable of offering those probing forward passes. thinking of training a player to use ppm tries long range passes. 

right sided central mid have gone for a cm attack to ling with the forwards. be the late runner for extra support. not too bothered about his defensive work as hoping the iwb will cover when he moves forward.

poacher and dlf on support up front.

in the screen shot any spaces left blank is because im not sure on who to play in that position. also forwards can change along with the inverted winger. martial, lukaku etc 

played a few easy friendlies and the poacher and inverted winger are doing really well. some harder friendlies to follow 

oh and shape and mentality along with team instructions kept simple

again help and advice welcome

[jc577]

@the SLC Looks fairly balanced, only a couple of things i’d like point out: 

Not really a fan of a double attack duty flank, but that’s just a personal preference as these days i’m more defensive-minded. Seen as you’re playing as United you’ll probably be fine against the smaller teams but it’s something to keep an eye on against the big boys. 

The IWB on attack won’t actually cover for the CM-A, in fact they’ll probably try and get into the same spaces. I’d change the IWB to a defend duty so that he forms a double pivot with the DLP when you’re attacking. Apart from that everything looks fine 

[crusadertsar]

Finally put enough time into a save to get some results. Initially started a Liverpool save but it did not show enough significant results from my poacher (Icardi) and got a little discouraged. Then decided to take an older save of my all-time favourite boyhood club and see what a little poacher magic would do. A little known Karpaty Lviv FC in Ukraine. And at midpoint mark in season, I got to say it looks like my poacher is firing on all cylinders. He does not have the most amazing attributes but still somehow managed to propel Green Lions to 3rd in the league (media predicted mid-table 6th for us). He is my top goalscorer (although followed closely by his TM partner) in a simple 4-4-2. My goal is to keep him as top goalscorer for the club (and maybe for the league hopefully!) and to get us continental football in Europa league for the first time since 2011  

Edited March 22, 2018 by crusadertsar

[herne79]

On ‎20‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 23:10, isignedupfornorealreason said:

I'm keeping an eye out for the ambitious individual who plays a single striker formation with the poacher. 

If you want to go down that road, consider individual player mentality and what you can use to influence that.

[fmhick5times]

Just happened across this thread; literally finished my 1st season last night using a poacher!

Inter Milan; Icardi as the poacher

played 4231. two wing backs bombing, 2 ball playing centre halves, 1 deep lying playmaker, 1 BBM, 1 AM/SS, 1 IF and 1 Winger. And of course Icardi

Only Serie A, dumped out of Coppa by Napoli (serious bogey team)

Won the league by 6 points; lost 2, drew 6. Beat Roma Lazio JUVENTUS home and away...

Defensively unbelievably sound.. conceded very few.. lot of 1 0 wins (too many - wont work next season)

Icardi got 35 goals; on fire. Never missed a game with injury. could go 2 games without scoring then get a hattrick... 

No finances coupled with the fact I loaned in a lot of guys means I know I will struggle big time next year (loaned wijnaldum *****, rafinha**, el shaaraway*, lamela no star)

But we will always have the memories !!

[FlairRA]

I always enjoy going for Messi-esque stats in FM, so I went back to my Dortmund save (FM17 in 2060) and made a few tweaks to make the central striker score EVEN MORE, as he's scored 103 and 91 in the previous two seasons. It was in a 3-striker tactic but obviously that doesn't work for this challenge so I decided to play wingers out wide, and creative CM's in the middle, all to do one thing: supply the poacher! It's working fantastic so far, he's scored 24(!) in only 6 games since the changes were made, far more than before. He's got "Shoot More Often" ticked too, I feel like the other two strikers before were stealing his glory a bit, now it's all about him! 

I'll try this with another team, maybe Liverpool or Inter, because this obviously a bit exaggerated by being in 2060 with world class players. The Poacher role is easily my favorite though, you can score so much! 

[jc577]

Right so i've finally finished my first season at Portsmouth, and not only was the season as a whole a great success, but the goal-scoring exploits of my Poacher was really something special. 

The Poacher

Meet Conor Chaplin. He's still young (only just turned 21) but still has a lot of things i'd look for in a poacher, especially at lower league level. Some good physical attributes are complimented by his mentals, and his 14 for finishing means he consistently puts the ball in the back of the net. His back-up was a striker in a different mould; still fairly quick but less agile and much taller/heavier, and it was very interesting to see how differently these two played the same role, and how it impacted the way we played as a whole. He also has an interesting set of PPMs, which as the season wore on rather frustrated me. I thought 'Shoots with Power' would actually benefit him seen as his technique is rather low, but seen as the majority of shots he took were from close in, the PPM was rather redundant and occasionally resulted in him skying them over the bar. 'Tries First Time Shots' was also a pain in the a**, sometimes he'd get played in but instead of driving to goal he'd shoot woefully from 20 yards out. 

The System

The system subtly changed over time, mainly moving from a counter mentality to a standard one when teams began to see us as a threat and set up more defensively. I opted for a DCB on the left to play long balls over the top for the poacher, which worked initially (probably a bit too well), and this wasn't as prominent a combination in the second half of the season due to us over-performing. The WM-a has the exact PI's as a Winger-A, with the exception of 'Run Wide With Ball'. I've actually asked him to cut inside with the ball, but I ensure that I play a correct footed player there, and this usually results in diagonal running with the ball, kind of like how Sané plays for City. The IW has been asked to sit narrower and play more risky passes, and this role is quite cool, often playing balls for the poacher to run onto, and he ended up playing the most key passes in the league. 

The Stats

Chaplin ended up scoring 37 league goals, which is by far the most amount of goals i've ever got from one player. A SoT % of 58% shows that we're creating quality chances for him, and I can't help but feel that he would have scored even more goals without those two annoying PPMs. Even so, i'm absolutely delighted with how he played and fortunately he stayed relatively injury free. The Poacher must be one of the most underrated roles in the game, always keeping things simple and progressive. 

Thanks to Chaplin's goals we ended up getting promoted via the play-offs after having been predicted to finish 14th at the start of the season. I've now got the hard task of getting the squad ready for the Championship, something i've never done before (only tend to play in the higher leagues) but certainly looking forward to it.

 

 

[herne79]

6 hours ago, jc577 said:

The system subtly changed over time, mainly moving from a counter mentality to a standard one when teams began to see us as a threat and set up more defensively

Excellent .  Making subtle changes over time, adapting to your opponents and what you see happening is great to read.

6 hours ago, jc577 said:

The Poacher must be one of the most underrated roles in the game, always keeping things simple and progressive. 

Exactly .  Combine with a solid 442 that's well balanced and not overloaded by a myriad of tactical instructions so you can actually see what is happening and adapt if needed.  Really, good job.

Next season sounds like a real challenge, just remember what your Board's expectations are.

[callamity]

I chose West Brom because of their real life struggles

I think i finished above the expectation, which meets the requirements of the challenge

I played 442 all season, This is how i set up, martinez was a january signing, sturridge prior to him coming in did really well too.

 

 

I went for a different take on the poacher than most i think

 

Rondon isnt really a great player for doing anything other than being in the box, he doesnt need great movement, just needs to finish off moves which is one of the reasons i liked him, he has the aerial ability of the poacher and the strength to brute force his way around the box

 

[Torskus77]

The above 4-4-2 with West Brom, is almost a carbon copy of one I was using,  other than I used a DLF rather than the F9, well initially it was a Defensive Forward, but when I had money to get a decent support striker I ditched the DF, he did a good job but didn't link as nicely.  I did have to change my  Wide Playmaker to attack duty at times, I love the overlap having him on support gave, but at times I found the Poacher a little isolated, especially if the attacking full back was having a poor game. I liked this set up, it is very easy to spot things when you keep it so simple. I found having battlers in the middle of the pitch helped a lot too. 2nd with West Brom is some feat,  I've noticed Man United rack up some tidy points totals in most of my saves, 88 is one of the lower ones, where as I have won the league in previous years with 80 ish sometimes. Nice job.

[Armistice]

3 hours ago, callamity said:

I chose West Brom because of their real life struggles

I think i finished above the expectation, which meets the requirements of the challenge

I played 442 all season, This is how i set up, martinez was a january signing, sturridge prior to him coming in did really well too.

 

 

I went for a different take on the poacher than most i think

 

Rondon isnt really a great player for doing anything other than being in the box, he doesnt need great movement, just needs to finish off moves which is one of the reasons i liked him, he has the aerial ability of the poacher and the strength to brute force his way around the box

 

Had a 4-4-1-1 tactic set up similarly to yours. Played as Spurs, failed miserably. I guess I'm just not good enough for this game.

[zlatanera]

4 minutes ago, Armistice said:

Had a 4-4-1-1 tactic set up similarly to yours. Played as Spurs, failed miserably. I guess I'm just not good enough for this game.

Why did it fail? Were you having shots from the wrong places? No shots? Conceding too many chances? Getting done on the counter or getting dominated? Did your entire first team get cruciate injuries on the first day of training? 

It goes without saying that West Brom and Spurs are completely different sides. Also he just posted his formation, not any of his TIs, set pieces routines or PIs so you could be trying completely different things that just look similar on paper. Don't give up. 

[callamity]

it is a very basic tactic, so much so i saved it as a simple 442

 

 

the only pi's i have are only on the centre midfielders

 

 

 

all other set pieces are untouched

 

The questions asked are right though, how did yours fail?   This 442 was set up around a squad like west brom. very very average.  id look at your players at spurs and make sure they can play the roles you put them in, and also make sure my roles were set up to work together well to create a team that plays together with a bit of variety

[Armistice]

3 hours ago, zlatanera said:

Why did it fail? Were you having shots from the wrong places? No shots? Conceding too many chances? Getting done on the counter or getting dominated? Did your entire first team get cruciate injuries on the first day of training? 

It goes without saying that West Brom and Spurs are completely different sides. Also he just posted his formation, not any of his TIs, set pieces routines or PIs so you could be trying completely different things that just look similar on paper. Don't give up. 

No I had the eternal problem of struggling to break stubborn defences, so that's why he probably overachieved with West Brom in the first place, even though he must have adapted later on.