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Dividends messing up my clubs


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I'm on my 3rd save now thinking my previous two were some kind of mistake on my part, but it really can't be a coincidence when the same problem occurs on 2 different saves.

My first save I played with AC Milan, I played through 3 seasons with the first season going fine, managed to keep a good financial balance and qualified for the EURO League, but the next 2 seasons I kept falling under the FFP limit because, surprise surprise, a **** load of dividends were paid out which lead to me getting punished for not following the FFP rules which again led to me getting sacked after 3 seasons because I had to sell players to keep a good balance but then I couldn't compete well in the league.

I thought the problem was that I sold players like Bacca, Calhanoglu and Conti for well over their value and earned a lot of money while bringing in good players on free transfer and the earnings from those transfers led to dividends being paid out, I started a new save and decided to not sell a single player but I had to sell Romagnoli because he wouldn't stop causing havoc in the dressing room about leaving to join Man City so I let him go for £80 million, but again on this save as well from the 2nd season a lot of dividends get paid out and it puts me in a bad financial position which leads to me having to sell players to maintain a positive balance.

This really pisses me off, I get that those who invest want to make some profit off their investment but it's just insane to take out so much money that it puts the club in a bad position like that causing bad results, and therefore earnings to drop, just cause fat cats want more cheese, is this a bug in the game or something?
Like I said I get it that investors want a profit in return but can't they at least keep the dividends to a reasonable number so that I don't have to sell players like a maniac, I mean investors do want their investment to keep making profit, why then ruin it if it can keep going and make money for them instead of ruining it.

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Dividends for shareholders in any company are decided by the board based on the company's financial strength- the more profit you make, the more is paid out in dividends. This will happen every year while you are making a profit, so you need to bear it in mind when you are looking at the club's finances.

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6 minutes ago, FrazT said:

Dividends for shareholders in any company are decided by the board based on the company's financial strength- the more profit you make, the more is paid out in dividends. This will happen every year while you are making a profit, so you need to bear it in mind when you are looking at the club's finances.

I get that, but what I don't get is why the dividends being paid out are so large that I go from being in appliance with FFP rules to failing them just because of these dividends, I understand the investors want their money but why take such a big piece of the pie that I can't keep up the good work, instead i'm set back a few years and that leads to the investors not earning, maybe even losing money, because my team can't compete.

I know it's a game and maybe the game doesn't think the same way but still, if they are gonna implement something like that they should make it actually work properly so us players don't get screwed.

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18 minutes ago, DudeTheMan said:

I get that, but what I don't get is why the dividends being paid out are so large that I go from being in appliance with FFP rules to failing them just because of these dividends, I understand the investors want their money but why take such a big piece of the pie that I can't keep up the good work, instead i'm set back a few years and that leads to the investors not earning, maybe even losing money, because my team can't compete.

I know it's a game and maybe the game doesn't think the same way but still, if they are gonna implement something like that they should make it actually work properly so us players don't get screwed.

that is just what EVERY company does in the real world mate. it unfortunately is working properly in that sense. you just have to keep it in mind

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FFP allows a certain amount of loss. Make the loss, no dividends should be paid....

Italian clubs have a long history of being owned/run by dodgy characters - match fixing, corruption etc. May be this is reflected in the game - isn't AC Milan owned by that dodgy Prime Minster they had a few years back?

FWIW, with the UK clubs, if you make a profit, the club gets a tax bill. The trick is to make sure you're close to your wage budget and you spend all your transfer budget.

I've been managing Celtic for three seasons, I pretty much ignore finances, except for my afore mentioned budgets, and always end up making a profit.

My advice, get a DoF and let him deal with all the financial stuff - contracts, transfers etc, BUT make sure you have it set up so that YOU 'finalise the transfers'. This way, the DoF keeps the money side in order and if he signs a player you don't want, you just don't 'accept' the transfer. To be honest, I give mine the benefit of the doubt most times and everything works out well. Somehow, 'we've' upped the wage bill from 250k a week to 800k a week, the transfer budget has gone from a couple of million to 20 million ish and we have a squad  that went from getting knocked out of the UCL at the third qualifier to one that can get to the last 16 - all in three seasons.

There's a certain degree of realism, but let's face it, it's all about sussing out how to beat an AI, "at the end of the day".

 

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You were paying more in dividends than you were earning in profit? That sounds a little weird. Did you have the owner inject large sums of cash into the club, which led to high profits? From what I remember there is only a certain amount of money that can be put into the club to make the comply with FFP rules. Otherwise, I do not understand how you paid more in dividends than you made in profit.

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16 hours ago, lemeuresnew said:

that is just what EVERY company does in the real world mate. it unfortunately is working properly in that sense. you just have to keep it in mind

No sane football club owner would pay themselves a dividend that resulting in their club being banned from a competition that could generate a a third of its annual income.

There is no reason other than a coding error for FM doing this.

 

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4 minutes ago, Barside said:

No sane football club owner would pay themselves a dividend that resulting a being banned from a competition that could generate a a third of  club’s annual income.

There is no reason other than a coding error for FM doing this.

 

there may be an argument for the owner sacking him for a loss of finances after the first season, but he isn't gona be out of pocket himself. this coupled with the fact i have NEVER seen a club denied entry. given fines and warnings, but never out and out bans

edit - i mean, if i bled money for my company for 3 years i would be surprised they had kept me after 1...

Edited by lemeuresnew
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@DudeTheMan If the dividends the board are taking out of the club are causing you to fail FFP then that sounds like a bug and is worth raising the issue in the bugs forum, especially if you have a save game from before the dividends are paid.

Whilst some boards are more aggressive than others in taking dividends they really shouldn't be taking amounts that cause you to fail FFP. (They shouldn't really even be taking money to cause you a loss, they generally just take some of the profit you made over the year).

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Maybe you are confusing the FFP total wage expenses-limt with the loss limit?

That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

Dividends will only be payed out while profitable, and I don't think it exceeds 1/4 of the total profit.

 

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Sorry for my late answer but I have been busy with work and stuff, I tried making another new save with Milan but again I had trouble.

I took some screenshots, as you can see the finances have fluctuated a lot, I brought several players in on free transfers so my economy did take a little nosedive cause of agent fees and all but in general the finances were alright, then suddenly around October 2019 my finances took a complete hit cause of Dividends being paid out and I was in a bad spot so in the winter transfer window I had to sell off players, luckily I was able to raise the prices of my players so I got good money for them and ended up in a good financial position.

I got some good players in during the summer, not too pricey either, and started rebuilding my team, then again in October the Dividends are paid out and I take a financial hit, in the screenshots below you can see how my finances are just really messed up now cause of these dividends, yes I have some income, right now I have around £15 mill income per month with £7-8 mill expenditure but I really don't think that's enough for those large amounts of dividends being taken out.

I checked a little closer in the FFP window and it says there if I don't stay within the limits that are set I will be banned from the tournament for a season (I assume it's the Champion's Cup), i'm allowed to have a loss of £4.4 million but right now i'm projected to have a financial loss of £1.4 billion.

Screw it, I might just give this game up or just use an editor to keep my finances in check because this is just silly, if this keeps up i'll end up like Parma and start from Serie Z by 2022 lol.

 

FM Finances 3.png

Finances FM.png

Screwed.png

Edited by DudeTheMan
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@DudeTheMan There is something wrong with your game if the board are taking dividends of £1bn, it shouldn't be done in October either it gets taken at the end of the season, though you've had an influx of a billion later in the season as well which seems weird.

What's your actual bank balance the only thing I can think is you've used the editor to give yourself a massive bank balance (or managed to sell players for a couple of billion) but their is a limit of ~£2bn that your bank balance can be without the game breaking (due to the way numbers are stored by computers) so to stop that happening the game will remove money from your bank balance to keep you under the limit otherwise your bank balance would flip to -£2bn and then you'd be in real trouble.

If its not a case of you having a massive bank balance then you really need to upload your save game and raise the issue in the bugs forum so SI can see what has gone wrong.

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31 minutes ago, michaeltmurrayuk said:

@DudeTheMan There is something wrong with your game if the board are taking dividends of £1bn, it shouldn't be done in October either it gets taken at the end of the season, though you've had an influx of a billion later in the season as well which seems weird.

What's your actual bank balance the only thing I can think is you've used the editor to give yourself a massive bank balance (or managed to sell players for a couple of billion) but their is a limit of ~£2bn that your bank balance can be without the game breaking (due to the way numbers are stored by computers) so to stop that happening the game will remove money from your bank balance to keep you under the limit otherwise your bank balance would flip to -£2bn and then you'd be in real trouble.

If its not a case of you having a massive bank balance then you really need to upload your save game and raise the issue in the bugs forum so SI can see what has gone wrong.

The billion influx i'm not really sure how happened, at the start of the save I signed Emre Can, Alexis Sanchez and a few others on free transfers which is why my budget was a little depleted cause of the sign on fees and agent fees but I managed to get some income without losing any important players (luckily) and kept a nice balance, then after I was hit with that financial crisis in October, I had no idea that happened I just noticed some of my players were concerned and it said they were willing to leave to club if it helps the club financially, that's when I checked my finances and saw I was in trouble, I wasn't sure why this happened because I didn't make any huge signings, I signed 3 youngsters for a small fee and Pietro Pellegri cost me around £9 million with some bonuses. Edit: These 4 signings were done in the summer of 2019, October 2019 is when the first financial crisis hit me.

The next transfer window (January) I sold a lot of my players, Emre Can, Alexis, Romagnoli, Rodriguez, Andre Silva, I was able to keep some players so that my team ended in a pretty decent position and qualified for the EURO cup at least, that helped my financies and not long after I was suddenly in a pretty good financial position that made little sense to me but I was happy.

The following summer transfer window I again signed some players on free transfer to strengthen my squad a bit so I have a good enough squad to deal with the coming seasons challenges while not going over my budgets, it was all nice and dandy until again I noticed players because concerned over the clubs finances so I checked and again in October there was a major expense, after looking at my finances the only thing I can see that makes any sense is the Dividends because no other expenses have such a high number, not even combined which is why this dividends thing annoys me.

Right now I feel like 'cheating' and using the editor to make AC Milan a club with no shareholders so I can avoid the freaking dividends completely.

What confuses me more is in the older FM games I remember doing pretty well one time and I won the Champions League 2-3 times in a row which gave me a lot of income, I was lucky in finding several good youngsters so I sold some of my older stars for a nice fee which gave me a huge income, back then I remember the board using those incomes to pay off loans and improve the stadium, training facilities etc even when I didn't ask them to, but so far in FM18 I have not once seen that happen even when my finances are good.

Think i'll try some totally different team tomorrow in a totally different league and see what happens, not sure which other clubs have shareholders except for like the EPL clubs and some clubs in Italy, think I'll search around and see what I find, just to see if this happens to me with any team I use who have shareholders and pay dividends or if there is something limiting it to the Italian and EPL clubs.

I would also like to add that even though these financial problems have happened more then once I still haven't gotten a notice about limited transfer budget, transfer embargo or that someone wants to buy the club to solve the financial issues.

 

Edited by DudeTheMan
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Removing the shareholders won't fix the issue as the game will just pay out to the owner especially if it's to fix the problem with a too high bank balance.

Again really need to know what your bank balance was like around this time as it really sounds like you had a massive bank balance from editing (especially with no restrictions to your spending and as you are only in 2019 if you'd sold players for several billion in game then that income would balance your FFP as its on a three year cycle) and the dividends are the games way of keeping you within the limits.

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On 2.3.2018 at 15:40, michaeltmurrayuk said:

Removing the shareholders won't fix the issue as the game will just pay out to the owner especially if it's to fix the problem with a too high bank balance.

Again really need to know what your bank balance was like around this time as it really sounds like you had a massive bank balance from editing (especially with no restrictions to your spending and as you are only in 2019 if you'd sold players for several billion in game then that income would balance your FFP as its on a three year cycle) and the dividends are the games way of keeping you within the limits.

No editing done at all, the only 'cheat' I use is a staff calculator so I know how many stars I get in coaching from my staff so I can better train my players.

Like I said I don't know where the influx came from, I didn't say I got a billion from player sales but I did have Alexis go for £78 million + bonuses to Man Utd, Emre Can went to Real Madrid for £65 million, Romagnoli was sold to Tottenham for £60 million and the rest of the transfers went for £40 million or less so yes I did earn between £250-300 million from sales that one transfer window but that was cause all my best players were sold, the only 'star' in my squad that wasn't sold was Andre Silva.

Think i'll just give this game up, the game was a lot more fun before they came with all these damn agents and other stuff, I mean if a team irl earns $10 billion over a period the money doesn't just get taken away for some bogus reason, or 15 year olds agents demanding £40k a week with a load of bonuses and a yearly wage rise on top of that.

Thanks for the help though!

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Dividends don't get paid out in October, that is part of the end of season stuff (June usually). Something weird is going on here, but a screenshot of the (whole) expenses page might be useful, and as said already, uploading it to the bugs forum to check what the problem is. 

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It is annual profit/loss that matters. You are allowed to go into the red during the year as long as you get prize money/tv revenue etc at the end of the season to earn it back. If you are selling players to ensure your finances are always green you will find that you earn more profit than you expect and the divident payout could be higher.

As people have said if it is literally failing your FFP and stuff then something is going wrong. No board is going to award dividends that so obviously screws the club over like that.

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