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Hi all. I have a regen in my u18 squad that is a pretty good defender with very good ratings for national u19 team but he lacks in jumping reach. He got 181cm at 16 years old and I've been training him as a Central Defender with an individual focus on jumping reach but it didn't increase at all in 1 year. What should I do? Could he ever become an good-ish Premier League defender or I'm wasting my time with him?

Could I retrain him in a different position? If yes, which one would suit him better?

Carlo Gray_ Development Attribute Changes.png

Carlo Gray_ Development Training.png

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Will try but I also want to know why did this happen? The player has a lot of potential ability remaining. Does the game choose some random attributes that won't change no matter what when a player is generated? It should be easier to mould a young player with enough ability remaining.

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Yeah, I've found throughout FM series, jumping reach just isn't something which changes that much. They can be used as part of a 3, but I always retrain short defenders as either full backs or a DM, depending on their attributes.

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On 03/02/2018 at 05:38, Vali184 said:

Will try but I also want to know why did this happen? The player has a lot of potential ability remaining. Does the game choose some random attributes that won't change no matter what when a player is generated? It should be easier to mould a young player with enough ability remaining.

Why  does it happen? Well unless you give the kid growth hormones like Messi, it's not that weird that he doesn't grow any taller. Nothing random about it. I've got a couple of defenders with jumping reach 4-5 who do well enough partnered with a tall guy but that's at non-league level. I doubt they'd cut it in the higher reaches. If they have good potential for positioning, marking, tackling etc they will make damn fine DMs.

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I am training him as a DM because i use one holding midfielder in my tactics. I have another DC regen with lower potential ability and his jumping reach changed in one year from 7 to 11, but the regen from OP didn't make any progress with his jumping OR other attributes. Could he be a 'late bloomer'? In one year he made almost zero progress with his development. In my reports he got 4 yellow stars+1 black star for potential ability.

Edited by Vali184
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I'm kinda mystified that 'jumping reach' can be trained at all. I mean it doesn't matter how many hours Messi spends on the trampoline, he's never going to match Peter Crouch. I'd have thought it could increase by a max of 1 through training; the rest has to come from natural growth. Now some boys keep growing into their late teens whereas other have stopped by the time they're 14.

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Looking at his stats, I would try and train him as a full back, unless you use attacking full backs. I kind of get that jumping reach can't be trained to well. It's really annoying when you get defensive midfielders with really low bravery, makes them almost useless. 

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On 04/02/2018 at 16:42, phnompenhandy said:

I'm kinda mystified that 'jumping reach' can be trained at all. I mean it doesn't matter how many hours Messi spends on the trampoline, he's never going to match Peter Crouch. I'd have thought it could increase by a max of 1 through training; the rest has to come from natural growth. Now some boys keep growing into their late teens whereas other have stopped by the time they're 14.

Jumping reach is not connected to height, they are two separate things. A CB who is 7ft but has a jumping reach of 3 will still win most aerial battles. He just doesn't grow that much when jumping, whereas a 5ft player with jumping reach of 20 will grow significantly when jumping. It literally is 'jumping reach', or 'springiness' rather than 'jumping ability + height'.

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4 hours ago, Tom8983 said:

Jumping reach is not connected to height, they are two separate things. A CB who is 7ft but has a jumping reach of 3 will still win most aerial battles. He just doesn't grow that much when jumping, whereas a 5ft player with jumping reach of 20 will grow significantly when jumping. It literally is 'jumping reach', or 'springiness' rather than 'jumping ability + height'.

I'm pretty sure SI have confirmed in the past that the player's height is factored into jumping reach. Anyone?

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On 04/02/2018 at 16:42, phnompenhandy said:

I'm kinda mystified that 'jumping reach' can be trained at all. I mean it doesn't matter how many hours Messi spends on the trampoline, he's never going to match Peter Crouch. I'd have thought it could increase by a max of 1 through training; the rest has to come from natural growth. Now some boys keep growing into their late teens whereas other have stopped by the time they're 14.

Didn't Cristiano Ronaldo train with basketball players in America to improve his leap. I'm sure I read that he never trained to jump higher but instead learned how to jump higher. He then trained the fast twitch muscles to give him more explosive power in his legs.

However, I could of dreamt that in a coke and booze fuelled frenzy.

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6 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

I'm pretty sure SI have confirmed in the past that the player's height is factored into jumping reach. Anyone?

I've never heard anything official, but it's painfully obvious height is a factor. Per Mertesacker has 19 jumping reach, Peter Crouch 18. At the other end of the spectrum, Theo Walcott's a 7 and Messi is a 6. I don't think those numbers represent "springiness".

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6 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

I'm pretty sure SI have confirmed in the past that the player's height is factored into jumping reach. Anyone?

It is. Tall players will have a high reach, short players' reach will be low.

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14 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

It is. Tall players will have a high reach, short players' reach will be low.

This is somewhat of a revelation to me. Im playing the game in Swedish where jumping reach says "Spänst". The word "Spänst" has nothing to do with how high his reach is while jumping, but how far his feet can get of the ground while jumping. If this is the case, what you're saying, the swedish translation is very misleading and totally wrong. It also makes more sense why some good CBs has so crappy Jumping Reach. 

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4 hours ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

So...

 

6'2 with a reach of 11 will outjump 5'11 with a reach of 14? 

 

As a rule of thumb, can we neglect jumping reach if height is high? 

No. Jumping Reach is how high a player can reach. So, 14 is always higher than 11.

I'm just saying there are limits. You will not get a 5'11 player with 20 JR, for instance because no matter how well he can jump, he's not going to be able to "reach" as high as a 6'9 player.

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6 hours ago, Daelh said:

This is somewhat of a revelation to me. Im playing the game in Swedish where jumping reach says "Spänst". The word "Spänst" has nothing to do with how high his reach is while jumping, but how far his feet can get of the ground while jumping. If this is the case, what you're saying, the swedish translation is very misleading and totally wrong. It also makes more sense why some good CBs has so crappy Jumping Reach. 

If that is the case, it's worth logging in the translation issues section. Jumping Reach determines how high a player can "reach" with his head. 

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1 minute ago, HUNT3R said:

If that is the case, it's worth logging in the translation issues section. Jumping Reach determines how high a player can "reach" with his head. 

OK thanks i will, because in swedish it means how high he can actually jump. 

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7 minutes ago, Daelh said:

OK thanks i will, because in swedish it means how high he can actually jump. 

That can be misleading. You can get a case like this:

6'7 player with JR of 14 and 5'11 player with JR of 14.

Assuming this is possible in-game as I made these numbers up - In this case, the 6'7 player doesn't have to be a phenomenal jumper to reach as high as 14, because he's quite tall. In fact, he's probably a poor jumper.

The 5'11 player, on the other hand, must be quite a good jumper to be able to reach as high as 14.

Regardless of how well they jump, their JR is the same value, so they can both reach the same height with their head.

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1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

That can be misleading. You can get a case like this:

6'7 player with JR of 14 and 5'11 player with JR of 14.

Assuming this is possible in-game as I made these numbers up - In this case, the 6'7 player doesn't have to be a phenomenal jumper to reach as high as 14, because he's quite tall. In fact, he's probably a poor jumper.

The 5'11 player, on the other hand, must be quite a good jumper to be able to reach as high as 14.

Regardless of how well they jump, their JR is the same value, so they can both reach the same height with their head.

The 5'11 player is the superior jumper as he has to jump higher to reach the same height with his head?

It makes sense. If not the case, then a 6'4 defender with a jumping reach of 18 could head the moon?

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7 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

No. Jumping Reach is how high a player can reach. So, 14 is always higher than 11.

Ok, so...

In theory, let me go with a ridiculous extreme example;

A 7'11 monster with jumping reach of 1 will be outjumped by a 5'9 guy with 20 reach?

So while height is a factor, the most important thing is always the jumping reach attribute itself? - If yes, that clears things up considerably for me. :)

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17 minutes ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

Ok, so...

In theory, let me go with a ridiculous extreme example;

A 7'11 monster with jumping reach of 1 will be outjumped by a 5'9 guy with 20 reach?

So while height is a factor, the most important thing is always the jumping reach attribute itself? - If yes, that clears things up considerably for me. :)

My example one post higher is better.

To answer you though - it's the same answer as before. 20 is more than 1. The JR of 20 will reach higher than a reach of 1. The height is irrelevant when looking at this.

Your extreme example cannot exist in the game though. It's impossible for a 7'11 player to have 1 JR and a 5'9 guy to have 20. That's where height is a factor - to at least keep the JR values realistic.

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45 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Your extreme example cannot exist in the game though. It's impossible for a 7'11 player to have 1 JR and a 5'9 guy to have 20. That's where height is a factor - to at least keep the JR values realistic.

I know that, just humour me! :p 

 

Okay I get it, Jumping Reach is the thing to make the judgement on from now on for me. :D 

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45 minutes ago, FatRonaldo said:

how do you call Simon Francis jumping reach in game? joke?

12 jumping reach, this guy is quite good on air IRL.

This is something for Data Issues section.

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5 hours ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

Ok, so...

In theory, let me go with a ridiculous extreme example;

A 7'11 monster with jumping reach of 1 will be outjumped by a 5'9 guy with 20 reach?

So while height is a factor, the most important thing is always the jumping reach attribute itself? - If yes, that clears things up considerably for me. :)

Not strictly. If the ball coming in is low enough, the taller guy will still have the advantage if both of them don't jump off the ground but simply head it

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3 hours ago, craigd84 said:

The OP's player would still be an efficient CB. Also dont forget some physical stats dont really start growing until they are 17-18 yr old.

Wouldn't he be very weak against crosses?

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24 minutes ago, wicksy360 said:

It can be grown, keep at it. This is my regen defender with 6. He also didnt grow for a whole year, then shot up after that!image.thumb.png.22fc1b4fca743e631842394cc3ce98bb.png

I changed his training again to jumping reach and Central Defender. Like craigd84 said, maybe he didn't start to improve physically yet.

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