Favorite FM Series

[Tony Wright 747]

5 hours ago, prot651 said:

So what has FM12 have that's so popular that FM18 doesn't . 

A more balanced ME,

better players positioning

better lighting

more realistic stadiums

mre realistic crowds

more detailed tactics

better regen faces

better weather effects

good variety of goals scored

better camera angles

 

etc, etc, etc.

[HUNT3R]

13 minutes ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

A more balanced ME,

better players positioning

more detailed tactics

Useless target men, useless counter attacking, robotic positioning and movement with very little lateral play, drifting and support, no AI "thinking" but rather using a set tactic, no collision avoidance, no arced runs or jumps.

It's easy to make one thing seem good. It's better to at least look at something objectively.

[Svenc]

It's always interesting that FM11 always rates massively lower in such polls than FM12 (it's not exactly a massive vote). In particular as the argument always seems to boil down to the match play. FM11 had the exact same ME, the only things that were added were purely cosmetical. A few added animations to the player models here, some other gfx there. This was done so that behind the scenes the coders could mainly focus on the next big step, which initially was projected to be ready in 2-3 iterations time AFAIR. All info that back then was still readily communicated. But likely as in parts that was was twisted and abused (SI treat players as beta testers, sell the same game at full price etc), you don't get much of that anymore. The only players who likely do are those very close to the staff, like the most respected bug hunt3rs.

 

[kingjericho]

4 hours ago, Svenc said:

It's always interesting that FM11 always rates massively lower in such polls than FM12 (it's not exactly a massive vote). In particular as the argument always seems to boil down to the match play. FM11 had the exact same ME, the only things that were added were purely cosmetical. A few added animations to the player models here, some other gfx there. This was done so that behind the scenes the coders could mainly focus on the next big step, which initially was projected to be ready in 2-3 iterations time AFAIR. All info that back then was still readily communicated. But likely as in parts that was was twisted and abused (SI treat players as beta testers, sell the same game at full price etc), you don't get much of that anymore. The only players who likely do are those very close to the staff, like the most respected bug hunt3rs.

 

TBH FM11 is still my favourite version. The aesthetics were great (both the light but especially the dark skin was so smooth). The only problem I have with it if I were to play it today would be the lack of role information on the tactics screen (whihc is just a visual thing), and the inability to add players to the scouting pool, you had to assign them to a specific scout, so I had to click through groups of 20 for each scout.

[tacticsdude]

7 hours ago, kingjericho said:

[FM11] ...the inability to add players to the scouting pool

I think that's my only real complaint. Otherwise FM11 felt mostly on point. I liked the way games played out. The scouting felt realistic for its time. Interactions with players were neat (abstract, better). The tactics panel felt much more realistic.

[Chloe Price]

On 29/01/2018 at 18:46, CFuller said:

Não posso acreditar por um momento que as figuras da VG Chartz contenham toda a história. Eu acho que eles rastreiam apenas vendas físicas e não vendas digitais.

Steamspy parece oferecer (possivelmente) informações mais precisas sobre quantos usuários Steam possuem um jogo específico. Mais uma vez, isso pode não ser perfeito, mas os números parecem estar certos:

• FM15 - 1.153m proprietários
• FM16 - proprietários de 1.123 m
• FM17 - 1.138m proprietários
• FM18 - 594k proprietários (até agora)

Believe , the number would have been absurdly larger had it been released to Brazil - even with the sales restriction here they are still at full throttle

[CFuller]

2 minutes ago, Chloe Price said:

Believe , the number would have been absurdly larger had it been released to Brazil - even with the sales restriction here they are still at full throttle

Indeed so. Out of interest, how do Brazilian FMers get the game legally?

(And could I just stray off topic for a moment? As a Life Is Strange fan, I like your username. )

[Chloe Price]

Há 14 minutos, a CFuller disse:

Na verdade, então. Por interesse, como os FMers brasileiros conseguem o jogo legalmente?

(E eu, na minha opinião, afastar do tópico por um momento? Como fã da Life is Strange, eu gosto do seu nome de usuário. )

Como podemos obter legalmente?

brincando

Nós conseguimos o jogo através de "presentes" pelo vapor.
Temos jogadores fora do país que fazem a venda e nos enviam como presente

chloe price not only sell drugs but football players - haha

[CFuller]

Going back on topic... I don't know about FM12, but from my experiences of FM13, the ME then was no better than it is now.

In FM13, it wasn't unheard of to see at least one or two crosses fly into the net per season, and many more to hit the bar. Yes, we still have the frequent "I'm not sure he meant that" moments in FM18, but it's perhaps not as bad as it was five versions ago.

Another annoyance I had/have with FM13 was that goalkeepers would occasionally charge out of their area and go wide to clear a long ball that was bouncing out of play anyway. This would often lead to the opposition having a speculative shot at goal, and often finding the net. Yes, those moments do occur every now and then in real football, but they were a little bit too prevalent in FM13 for my liking.

Oh yes, and central defenders often got higher match ratings than other players, especially if they made a high number of interceptions or scored a goal.

Still, I absolutely love that game, and I'll be quite sad when the time comes to end my current save.

[Overmars]

I have spent a good chunk of my life playing FM11 and FM15. I guess that makes them my joint favourites. For me, the only reason to play a newer version is for the data update. I typically dislike the new features and changes.

[kingjericho]

3 hours ago, Overmars said:

I have spent a good chunk of my life playing FM11 and FM15. I guess that makes them my joint favourites. For me, the only reason to play a newer version is for the data update. I typically dislike the new features and changes.

Coincidentally I too experienced the most fun with FM11 and FM15. FM11 was still fairly simple, not overloaded with pointless features. FM15 was not that special tbh, it was mostly for the great save I had there. This version is definitely an upgrade to the previous two years, although some of the features are still unproven and I'll say they willbe discarded pretty soon, because some of them add virtually nothing to the game (hierarchy, data analysis, etc)

[Robioto]

FM2012, played that for 3 years as 13 and 14 weren't as good IMO so I kept going back to my old save. I have over 1,400 hours on FM2012 (quite a bit of idle time there though)

[alian62]

Do the Graphics matter ?

[mrbrownsays]

FM08 was my favourite because it coincided with college when I had plenty of time to play FM and also I realised that you could chuck a corner into the far post (or near post) and throw a tall player with decent heading and acceleration to attack said post and they got 20/30 goals a season. Djourou the best centre back Arsenal ever had in my game regularly seasons top scorer and player of the year.

[alian62]

Which series had the best Pre Editor

[alian62]

bump

[L-Wiz]

im actually still playing my FM13 save, currently 35 seasons in. ive never moved onto a later version except toyed with a couple on the ipad (different i know)

i actually just love the way the game seems to sync together with mutliple leagues. its quite a journeyman career and i like squad building and it seems to work well.

however CM97/98 will always be my number 1

[alian62]

Looks Like FM12 is a far favorite . Maybe Si need to look back to move forwards .

[tacticsdude]

12 minutes ago, prot651 said:

Looks Like FM12 is a far favorite

It does, but I'm disappointed as to the reason. I've read a few dozen opinions (here and elsewhere) and it seems that the reason most people like FM12 is because they find joy faster. They consider the game more fun because it is easier to enjoy your career (start getting results). While I completely understand that, as a hardcore users I want the game to be harder (more realistic) not easier.

Which version has the more realistic ME/AI?

[alian62]

15 minutes ago, tacticsdude said:

It does, but I'm disappointed as to the reason. I've read a few dozen opinions (here and elsewhere) and it seems that the reason most people like FM12 is because they find joy faster. They consider the game more fun because it is easier to enjoy your career (start getting results). While I completely understand that, as a hardcore users I want the game to be harder (more realistic) not easier.

Which version has the more realistic ME/AI?

That's hard to say . Some ME has good graphics and poor gameplay while others its the opposite . I find FM15 gave a good compromise

[Defensive]

vor 42 Minuten schrieb prot651:

Looks Like FM12 is a far favorite . Maybe Si need to look back to move forwards .

FM12 wins every poll for years now, i dont take this very seriously to be honest.

More concerning is that FM18 is not better in this poll than FM17 because normally the newest version always gets more votes than everything else (besides 12).

 

The true winner of this poll is FM17.  Rightfully so.

[Tony Wright 747]

SI could do worse than look back at FM12. 

 

FM12 wins most polls and a large numbers are still playing this version six years after release.  To say that they are doing this because it is easier I feel is too simplestic as there are a number of areas where I believe it is better than later releases, I think the ME is more realistic. 

 

The most realistic AI was probably FM16 or 17, as this is one area which in FM12 was less reactive than in later versions, but the diference is not massive.

 

I believe the reason FM18 is not doing better in this poll is that it is a very poor game and players have discovered this very quickly

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

SI could do worse than look back at FM12. 

 

FM12 wins most polls and a large numbers are still playing this version six years after release.  To say that they are doing this because it is easier I feel is too simplestic as there are a number of areas where I believe it is better than later releases, I think the ME is more realistic. 

 

The most realistic AI was probably FM16 or 17, as this is one area which in FM12 was less reactive than in later versions, but the diference is not massive.

 

I believe the reason FM18 is not doing better in this poll is that it is a very poor game and players have discovered this very quickly

There is absolute nothing they can take from FM12 as it contains no 3D physics. There's no feasible way to argue an ME that doesnt contain real, or indeed any physics is more realistic. This discussion has been done to death for years. It's not the direction they are going in.

[Etebaer]

FM13 so far - it had some funny things like AOE Challenges but i have never seen a Player runing through another Player, slow Players outpacing fast Players, etc. it simply made a whole lot more of sense than anything beyond that.

In FM13 the Poacher would sit on the shoulders of the Defense to outrun them - in FM18 that Donkey is somewhere in the midfield playing a false 10.

In FM13 the coverage of space made much more sense and less often did far away Players leave their Position for challenges another Player more close to the vicintiy shouldl have done and diagonal pathing seems almost nonexistant.

Well, i still hope for the next update...

[Tony Wright 747]

27 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

There is absolute nothing they can take from FM12 as it contains no 3D physics. There's no feasible way to argue an ME that doesnt contain real, or indeed any physics is more realistic. This discussion has been done to death for years. It's not the direction they are going in.

you are absolutely right this discussion has gone on for years, but there has to be a reason why FM12 is still so popular and I don't believe it is because it is easier, it is certainly not in my case.  Where I believe the ME is more realistic and could be looked is the players movements and postioning especially defensive positions, also the variety of goals scored and curved shots, stepovers etc.  In later versions attacks are nearly all the same, ball out to the wings cross comes in , Goal!.  Then you have the lighting and textures, the stadiums have become evermore arcade/cartoon like in later years.  FM18 looks like it should be Trumpton Town V Toytown Rovers.  FM13 was the last version that the crowd behaved realisticly, standing up when something exciting was happening on the pitch, and then sitting down again, the crowds now behave like whirling dervishes on speed with no relation to what is happening on the pitch.

[themadsheep2001]

1 hour ago, Defensive said:

FM12 wins every poll for years now, i dont take this very seriously to be honest.

More concerning is that FM18 is not better in this poll than FM17 because normally the newest version always gets more votes than everything else (besides 12).

 

The true winner of this poll is FM17.  Rightfully so.

I'd argue this is more pertinent (albeit its a very small sample), as not only part of the 3d physics era, it also has the new motion capping

 

1 minute ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

you are absolutely right this discussion has gone on for years, but there has to be a reason why FM12 is still so popular and I don't believe it is because it is easier, it is certainly not in my case.  Where I believe the ME is more realistic and could be looked is the players movements and postioning especially defensive positions, also the variety of goals scored and curved shots, stepovers etc.  In later versions attacks are nearly all the same, ball out to the wings cross comes in , Goal!.  Then you have the lighting and textures, the stadiums have become evermore arcade/cartoon like in later years.  FM18 looks like it should be Trumpton Town V Toytown Rovers.  FM13 was the last version that the crowd behaved realisticly, standing up when something exciting was happening on the pitch, and then sitting down again, the crowds now behave like whirling dervishes on speed with no relation to what is happening on the pitch.

The player movements in FM12 were even more robotic. Lateral movement didnt even exist in the ME at that point, there was no proper support, it wasn't dynamic. You scored goals because through balls, and long range passes were played at arcade amounts with pin point accuracy. If you're going to quote realism, FM12 just isn't an example.

 

[Tony Wright 747]

3 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I'd argue this is more pertinent (albeit its a very small sample), as not only part of the 3d physics era, it also has the new motion capping

 

The player movements in FM12 were even more robotic. Lateral movement didnt even exist in the ME at that point, there was no proper support, it wasn't dynamic. You scored goals because through balls, and long range passes were played at arcade amounts with pin point accuracy. If you're going to quote realism, FM12 just isn't an example.

 

I play both FM12 and FM16 and to me the player movements look far more natural in FM12 than in FM16.  You obviously have your opinion on this but I and others would beg to differ

[themadsheep2001]

47 minutes ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

I play both FM12 and FM16 and to me the player movements look far more natural in FM12 than in FM16.  You obviously have your opinion on this but I and others would beg to differ

It's not an opinion. Proper lateral movement was not coded in the ME at that point. Which lead directly on a lack of support on considered build up. And through balls were known to be too accurate and played at roughly 4 times the rate of real life 

[HUNT3R]

Tony, please read my earlier post. It's easy to make FM12 look good. It's even easier to make later MEs be way better. Remember - there's a difference between enjoyable and realistic. What you favourite is, depends on what you prefer.

[Tony Wright 747]

49 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Tony, please read my earlier post. It's easy to make FM12 look good. It's even easier to make later MEs be way better. Remember - there's a difference between enjoyable and realistic. What you favourite is, depends on what you prefer.

My post was really to agree with prot651, whilst disagreeing with tacticsdude.  I am not saying take away collision detection  etc. but obviously FM12 is still a very popular version of the game.  The reason normally given is that it is easier, but I don't believe that to be the only reason because if it was no challenge I don't believe people would still be playing the game in such large numbers six years after release.  As I said I play both FM12 and FM16 and I only find FM12 a little easier and this I put down to as you say lack of AI thinking rather than the ME in general. 

 

What I mean by realistic is when I play FM12 I see more of the things that I see when I go to a live game than I see in FM16.

 

I just think SI could look back atFM12 and even FM11 and FM13 and say how can we include the variety of goals, the variety of attacking movements, the variety of shots, the more realistic stadiums and crowds etc., into the next version of FM.  Maybe they will do that maybe they won't  either way I am not all that bothered because  I am happy to play the versions I do for ever if need be, but at the same time I think that if this was acheiveable this could be an awsome game.  As I have posted before up until FM12/13 the progress was really good I just feel that has not really been maintained, but I understand that there will be others that take a diferrent view.

[tacticsdude]

7 hours ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

obviously FM12 is still a very popular version of the game.  The reason normally given is that it is easier, but I don't believe that to be the only reason

I'm not saying that's the only reason, but my research did show it as the most obvious reason. Like several old posts with people literally saying they liked FM12 because it was easier, and they disliked FM13 because it was harder, required more work and there was too much detail to deal with.

I'm sure there are other reasons that make FM12 well liked, everything counts (graphics, interface, how often you have to act on messages, etc).

When it comes to tactics/ME/AI, it was said here that FM12 is the same as FM11. I didn't have FM12 but I played nearly a thousand hours on FM11 and I can attest that FM11 is not easier than FM17. FM17 is easier than taking a nap at 3am.

What's the hardest FM you ever played?

[Tony Wright 747]

7 hours ago, tacticsdude said:

I'm not saying that's the only reason, but my research did show it as the most obvious reason. Like several old posts with people literally saying they liked FM12 because it was easier, and they disliked FM13 because it was harder, required more work and there was too much detail to deal with.

I'm sure there are other reasons that make FM12 well liked, everything counts (graphics, interface, how often you have to act on messages, etc).

When it comes to tactics/ME/AI, it was said here that FM12 is the same as FM11. I didn't have FM12 but I played nearly a thousand hours on FM11 and I can attest that FM11 is not easier than FM17. FM17 is easier than taking a nap at 3am.

What's the hardest FM you ever played?

As you say FM12 is a more polished version of FM11 and the difficulty is more or less the same.  People say a lot of the good things in FM12 are in FM13 but not as easy, I have not played FM13 so I can't comment from experience, I may pick one up cheap and give it a go one day.  I think the FM I found the hardest was probably FM09, at least I had more sackings in that game.

[forameuss]

I don't understand why people feel the pressing need to defend when anyone calls out FM12.  It is what it is - a fun game where it was easy to win that had flaws.  It's always thought of fondly because of this.  What's so wrong with that?

[Federico]

It stands when you say you loved it.

But in my opinion it can't stand when you say it was the best. Stating something like that open a debate automatically, agreeing or not.

I love really much FM07, can I say it is the best? I know it is in my heart, but objectively it's a non-sense calling it out as "the best" or even better than recent versions.

If I read "I had so fun with FM12 and played thousands of hours! Hats off, is my favourite EVER!", I'd have nothing to counter.

But if I read "FM12 had a better engine, better graphic, better scouting, better facegen, better lightning, better animations..." ... well there's objectively something wrong in this statement and I feel like telling it to you.

I had fun playing FM12, I won 2 WC in a row, tens of CL, an asian CL with a poor japanese side and even CWC with the same japanese team defeating Porto 4-0 in the final, using an horrific non-sense tactic. That's why people loves it so much, you dropped a starting XI on the pitch on any kind of tactics and it made you feel like a master of strategy. And clearly you were (and I was) not.

[forameuss]

It depends what question you ask.  The OP asked what was your favourite, and that's a completely objective decision that doesn't necessarily need to be based on the actual quality.  I like a deep fried pizza occasionally, but it doesn't mean I believe it's the height of culinary excellence (because hooo boy, it isn't).  

Like you say, people saying that FM12 is their favourite is absolutely fine, but there seems to be these walls getting thrown up when anyone calls out the game for what it is.  Some nonsensical stuff talked about FM12 to try and justify why it was "good", when all you really need to say is "I had fun, I enjoyed it".  

[Tony Wright 747]

35 minutes ago, forameuss said:

It depends what question you ask.  The OP asked what was your favourite, and that's a completely objective decision that doesn't necessarily need to be based on the actual quality.  I like a deep fried pizza occasionally, but it doesn't mean I believe it's the height of culinary excellence (because hooo boy, it isn't).  

Like you say, people saying that FM12 is their favourite is absolutely fine, but there seems to be these walls getting thrown up when anyone calls out the game for what it is.  Some nonsensical stuff talked about FM12 to try and justify why it was "good", when all you really need to say is "I had fun, I enjoyed it".  

In a thread like this forameuss it will always be about opinions, if I say I think FM12 is the best and FM18 is the worst it is obviously my opinion and not fact, my name is at the top and the key words are "I think", someone else will take exactly the opposite view and I don't have a problem with that at all.  I do have a slight problem with the popularity of FM12 being that it was the easiest, thats an assumption that has not really been proven, and my opinion is that if that was the main reason people would now be bored with it after six years and that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Everone plays this game differently and want different things from it, (that is part of it's appeal) and I believe that has a bearing on how people would vote in polls of this type.  As you say if you are enjoying playing the game it does't really matter what version you are playing

[YOUNGSTEVE]

Obviously people have forgotten CM4 when mentioning the worst version, which although not officially a FM, was one just having a different NAME. This is the one when they moved over to 2d graphics from text, & must have been the most bugged game in the history of the game.

[Federico]

8 ore fa, Tony Wright 747 ha scritto:

I do have a slight problem with the popularity of FM12 being that it was the easiest, thats an assumption that has not really been proven, and my opinion is that if that was the main reason people would now be bored with it after six years and that doesn't seem to be the case

I slightly disagree on that I'm afraid. That FM12 was (and still is) the easiest FM ever made it's a fact rather than an assumption and my achievements prove it. Nonetheless the collision avoidance wasn't introduced yet, it was very easy to exploit the game and I'm surprised nobody mentioned goals from near post corners (having my CBs being the top scorers of the league in each season I personally played was not the best of realism).

And I also disagree on the fact so many people is still playing it because it's a good game. People plays it because it's easy to win, plain and simple. How many of you would still play a game after years if you constantly lose and lose and lose again? Not many I suppose. "It's unplayable" or "it's impossible to win" would be the main stream of complaints I'm sure. This apply on every game, not only FM.

But also I think that when you play a game, you firstly should enjoy it. If FM12 enjoys you much more than any other FMs made later, we're all happy for you.

If we move on a different topic talking about how it was better on many aspects, well in that case it's fair to have a debate with people who disagree on that.

[tacticsdude]

19 minutes ago, Federico said:

it was very easy to exploit the game and I'm surprised nobody mentioned goals from near post corners

That was a known bug. What is not known is why you kept doing it. If you knew that setting your corners to the near post would result in unrealistic goal tallies, why did you keep clicking that button season after season?

[Dagenham_Dave]

On 15/02/2018 at 16:01, Tony Wright 747 said:

SI could do worse than look back at FM12. 

 

 I think the ME is more realistic. 

 

It's unbelievable that people still think this. 

 

[Federico]

57 minuti fa, tacticsdude ha scritto:

That was a known bug. What is not known is why you kept doing it. If you knew that setting your corners to the near post would result in unrealistic goal tallies, why did you keep clicking that button season after season?

Because everybody likes to win

But all I wanted to point out was how that ME was flawed and exploitable.

[Tony Wright 747]

1 hour ago, Federico said:

I slightly disagree on that I'm afraid. That FM12 was (and still is) the easiest FM ever made it's a fact rather than an assumption and my achievements prove it. Nonetheless the collision avoidance wasn't introduced yet, it was very easy to exploit the game and I'm surprised nobody mentioned goals from near post corners (having my CBs being the top scorers of the league in each season I personally played was not the best of realism).

And I also disagree on the fact so many people is still playing it because it's a good game. People plays it because it's easy to win, plain and simple. How many of you would still play a game after years if you constantly lose and lose and lose again? Not many I suppose. "It's unplayable" or "it's impossible to win" would be the main stream of complaints I'm sure. This apply on every game, not only FM.

But also I think that when you play a game, you firstly should enjoy it. If FM12 enjoys you much more than any other FMs made later, we're all happy for you.

If we move on a different topic talking about how it was better on many aspects, well in that case it's fair to have a debate with people who disagree on that.

I am quite happy to have a debate on it and am interested in others opinions.  I for one don't play FM12 because it is easier but for other reasons which I have mentioned in posts on this thread and others.  I dont try and exploit the ME, that would be like cheating at patience what would be the point.  I do agree that the AI is less reactive to what you do  than in later versions, so I would agree it is slightly easier than FM6 for example, but I don't think it is masively easier.

[Tony Wright 747]

33 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

It's unbelievable that people still think this. 

 

Have a look at my post again Dave and see what my interpretation of realistic is.

[Federico]

This one?

https://community.sigames.com/topic/428150-favorite-fm-series/?do=findComment&comment=11218191

[Tony Wright 747]

6 minutes ago, Federico said:

This one?

https://community.sigames.com/topic/428150-favorite-fm-series/?do=findComment&comment=11218191

No I was refering to the one I posted at yesterday at 18.50

[Chris22]

I played FM12 over Christmas only played one season with Liverpool I got Craig Bellamy to score 45 league goals far to easy to get strikers score unrealistic amounts goals in FM12 match engine.

best I got a striker to score in FM17 was 27 league goals far more realistic the newer versions of Football manager are the best.

[Svenc]

I prefer the theory that FM2012 Is/remains some popular because it was the end of a rope. An all around polished product that without significant changes couldn't be pushed further ahead. However, one, that SI at the core deemed balanced enough to consider not patching the core engine -- get this -- in 12+ months running. So the focus behind the scenes could be elsewhere. FM11 was the easier game anyway, as due to a few "morale" issues it was:

- borderline impossible to ever enter a relegation fight even after a surprise promotion
- go on loooooooooooong streaks and claim such surprise promotions

Which had a few to do with how morale worked then, and that the most extreme ends could be maintained throughout the squads for a very long time running. Coupled with the "scared chicken" AI defensive tactics and their universally abysmal morale squads, there were always 2, 3 teams in each league that once they started losing .... they just wouldn't stop. This was only ever adressed by FM2012. Still a huge thread on this, btw. One of the biggest if you sort threads by their size ever.

Plus I'm confident FM06-08 were easier too, as you had Diablo and Kimz crazy arrow exploits -- we're talking exploits here where it didn't even matter if you were thouroughly outplayed. Every time your side went forward, you had a big chance to score, as players would be unmarked in the opposition area.  The thought of FM2012 remaining some popular primarily because players would prefer win buttons would make me feel depressed. [If I were SI, I'd totally include those, mind as a feature].

[Overmars]

On 2/15/2018 at 09:02, prot651 said:

That's hard to say . Some ME has good graphics and poor gameplay while others its the opposite . I find FM15 gave a good compromise

FM15 was lovely, but it did suffer from having too many goals scored. Each matchday, I would see 5-4 and 4-3 scores from other matches, and it would remind me how unreal it was.

[shirajzl]

Funnily enough, the thread @Svenc linked showed you everything you need to know about what people (as in majority) really want in FM.

In retrospective arguably the easiest FM ever was judged "just about right" difficulty-wise at the time, which speaks volumes.

I noticed that trend on many non-English speaking FM fan forums. The drop-off of people actually playing the game is staggering, the vast majority claiming the game is broken, tactics impossible to get right etc. What in fact happened is that people playing FMs of the past just put together a tactic they fancied, frequently with no rhyme nor reason, often exploiting the many flaws of the MEs at the time without even realizing. They were winning stuff easily, convinced they understood tactics, which couldn't be further from the truth.

[Tony Wright 747]

9 hours ago, Svenc said:

I prefer the theory that FM2012 Is/remains some popular because it was the end of a rope. An all around polished product that without significant changes couldn't be pushed further ahead. However, one, that SI at the core deemed balanced enough to consider not patching the core engine -- get this -- in 12+ months running. So the focus behind the scenes could be elsewhere. FM11 was the easier game anyway, as due to a few "morale" issues it was:

- borderline impossible to ever enter a relegation fight even after a surprise promotion
- go on loooooooooooong streaks and claim such surprise promotions

Which had a few to do with how morale worked then, and that the most extreme ends could be maintained throughout the squads for a very long time running. Coupled with the "scared chicken" AI defensive tactics and their universally abysmal morale squads, there were always 2, 3 teams in each league that once they started losing .... they just wouldn't stop. This was only ever adressed by FM2012. Still a huge thread on this, btw. One of the biggest if you sort threads by their size ever.

Plus I'm confident FM06-08 were easier too, as you had Diablo and Kimz crazy arrow exploits -- we're talking exploits here where it didn't even matter if you were thouroughly outplayed. Every time your side went forward, you had a big chance to score, as players would be unmarked in the opposition area.  The thought of FM2012 remaining some popular primarily because players would prefer win buttons would make me feel depressed. [If I were SI, I'd totally include those, mind as a feature].

I would go along with your theory in the first paragraph Svenc