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I agree with making Salah a rightsided AF with Firmino the central Treq. 

I would suggest where you have the Mez, perhaps a CAR.. attacking wise i prefer the MEZ but im thinking the CAR maybe more defensively stable.

Also set Salah to MARK their fullback so when they attack he drops back into the "AMR" role.

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@begoodpam

I started out with the above set up, with the idea to add extra instructions to tweak things around and try and improve things but I haven't needed to.

I did put "Roam from Position" on the front 3 at one point, as well as "sit narrower" for Mane and Salah but that made them less effective so I scrapped it. I also was going to turn the "closing down" up but with attacking mentality this should already be fairly high so I left it alone and it seems to be working ok.

The only thing I've changed from the defaults is the keeper has "distribute to centre backs" and I have "low crosses" turned on because the forwards are more movement and pace based than there to win headers. In the draw with Leicester I mentioned above I did turn on Play Offside to try and combat Vardy running in behind since he was killing me until then, but yeh that's it, otherwise it's just the roles, mentality and shape. I've overcomplicated things in the past and had real trouble with FM18 doing that so I thought I'd start out fairly simple and it's going really well so far!

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2 minutes ago, jcw163 said:

@begoodpam

I started out with the above set up, with the idea to add extra instructions to tweak things around and try and improve things but I haven't needed to.

I did put "Roam from Position" on the front 3 at one point, as well as "sit narrower" for Mane and Salah but that made them less effective so I scrapped it. I also was going to turn the "closing down" up but with attacking mentality this should already be fairly high so I left it alone and it seems to be working ok.

The only thing I've changed from the defaults is the keeper has "distribute to centre backs" and I have "low crosses" turned on because the forwards are more movement and pace based than there to win headers. In the draw with Leicester I mentioned above I did turn on Play Offside to try and combat Vardy running in behind since he was killing me until then, but yeh that's it, otherwise it's just the roles, mentality and shape. I've overcomplicated things in the past and had real trouble with FM18 doing that so I thought I'd start out fairly simple and it's going really well so far!

Thx for your reply, let us know how your save goes.

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I am going to insist we merge the Liverpool threads into one, there is no point having multiple threads running around with the same theme.  @jcw163

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36 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

I am going to insist we merge the Liverpool threads into one, there is no point having multiple threads running around with the same theme.  @jcw163

No worries Rashidi, I did wonder if this would be a better idea but the initial post in this thread was a little bit different so I'd posted it separately to start with.

1 hour ago, Callumb45 said:

Sorry if ive missed it out whilst reading, do you have any opposition instructions? 

No I've left these alone as well, I was tempted to put closing down on on the opposition defenders but again the 3 AMs with attacking mentality seem to close down the opposition defenders high up the pitch anyway.

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So I just thought I'd pop in the stats for the front three, this is appearances, goals, assists and chances created

 

Stats.thumb.png.64bbe583ee44aea2cc5a4d5f1e36d8c1.png

 

This screenshot is probably awful sorry I don't normally do this.

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Contemplating after the last match against Watford

Just looking at the match report at whoscored, the average positioning:

BlsmOXG.png

I get using Salah at ST, not necessarily the wrong approach, but I'd prefer playing him wide in a 4-3-3. Just my preference, he seems to defend the flank more than an ST.

I'd personally start him as a Raumdeuter on the right side. He was very high and narrow:

rOHLWOz.png

I don't think he is the Egyptian Messi, rather the Egyptian Ronaldo. It's more is forte to be a scorer who base himself on clever positioning and speed rather then the playmaker on the side.

Mane on the other side, I'd peg as an Inside Forward on Support, as he droped deeper to collect the ball a lot, probably coupled with Sit Narrower - he often moved moved to the center of the pitch. The IF/s comes with Dribble More and Cut Inside With Ball, both fit with Mane's personality while he definitely tried More Risky Passes.

It's worth-noting that both the RMD and IF have Cross Less Often, which bods well with the fact that Liverpool didn't play a crossing game.

Upfront, Firmino seemed to have dropped very deep at times against Watford, so I feel like a False Nine as a starting point.

In midfield, Henderson wass defintely a DLP/d in my eyes, rarely got forward and made more touches than any other player on the pitch.

I'm sure about the players ahead of him Wijnaldum and Milner seemed to do a lot without doing much, being everywhere across the pitch without attracting the ball too much. I feel like Milner often ends up wide, so maybe Mezzala/Box To Box Midfielder combo? Not sure at all, would love some input here.

Fullbacks heatmap:

90gufRD.png

Robertson on the left seemed more inclined to move forward than Gomez, which makes sense since the former is a "failed winger" while the latter is a "failed center back".

In defense, Van Dijk made 6 long passes, more than any Liverpool outfielder other than Henderson. I'd give him Ball Playing Defender while Matip was a bog average Center Back.

In goal, Karius never made a lot, but in recent games he seems more inclined to rush forward and distribute quickly. Sweeper Keeper on Support feels right for me.

 

TL;DR

Sweeper Keeper/Support

Ball Playing Defender/Defend

Centeral Defender/Defend

RB/Full-Back/Support

LB/Full-Back/Attack

Deep Lying Playmaker/Defend

MCR/???

MCL/???

AMR/Raumdeuter

AML/Inside Forward/Support (PI: Sit Narrower)

False Nine

 

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After a slow start where I was messing with configurations, we finally settled on a system where Mo Salah is blowing away the opposition singlehandedly.  Along with Mane, and Firmino he forms a devastating partnership upfront for my Kop Diaries save. The goal here is to recognise the changes made to Liverpool since the departure of Coutinho.

In a recent interview captured by FootballItalia, Mane remarked that since Coutinho has left he now has the responsibility of dropping deeper to connect midfield to the attack. This is captured by me using him as an AP(S) which allows him more license to move around the pitch. Gini Wini has always been a half space player, that much was acknowledged by Klopp himself in an interview a few months back where he explained how he uses Gini in the half spaces. I wanted Mane and Gini to work together, naturally there is a bit of collision, but I love it because it makes it almost impossible for us to lose the ball down the left, allowing Andy Robertson to replicate what he does irl, bomb down the left flank. 

Salah's positioning down the right is unquestionable, as this is the favoured position Klopp plays him in, explaining why he leads the Europe with the most number of left footed goals this season. Bobby Firmino can be played as an F9, TQ or DLF, the problem with the F9 is that he dribbles too much, the TQ doesn't have an aggressive bent, leaving the DLF as the most natural role for him. I could have chosen TQ, but feel that that role isn't what he is doing irl. since he leads the pressing for the Reds. The whole frontline takes the cue from Firmino, when he presses the forward press begins.

 

5ab1b34a2bcaf_ScreenShot2018-03-21at9_19_31AM.thumb.png.23fe5cb7b5deee5ee39addbb225fab59.png

We haven't played too many matches, but Salah already has 2 hat tricks thus far. One in the champs league group stages and one in the premiership.

5ab1b50ee40b6_ScreenShot2018-03-21at9_26_47AM.thumb.png.a8e574783d788659aaac5f394228bcf6.png

The only reason why he will score less then 40 goals for me this season is his injury proneness. In my game he seems to get knocked about too easily. So I will need to "cotton ball" him, I do feel however, that he will easily hit any goalscoring milestone I set for him this season. Two hat tricks in 9 appearances, and 3 assists.

 

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3 hours ago, Rashidi said:

After a slow start where I was messing with configurations, we finally settled on a system where Mo Salah is blowing away the opposition singlehandedly.  Along with Mane, and Firmino he forms a devastating partnership upfront for my Kop Diaries save. The goal here is to recognise the changes made to Liverpool since the departure of Coutinho.

In a recent interview captured by FootballItalia, Mane remarked that since Coutinho has left he now has the responsibility of dropping deeper to connect midfield to the attack. This is captured by me using him as an AP(S) which allows him more license to move around the pitch. Gini Wini has always been a half space player, that much was acknowledged by Klopp himself in an interview a few months back where he explained how he uses Gini in the half spaces. I wanted Mane and Gini to work together, naturally there is a bit of collision, but I love it because it makes it almost impossible for us to lose the ball down the left, allowing Andy Robertson to replicate what he does irl, bomb down the left flank. 

Salah's positioning down the right is unquestionable, as this is the favoured position Klopp plays him in, explaining why he leads the Europe with the most number of left footed goals this season. Bobby Firmino can be played as an F9, TQ or DLF, the problem with the F9 is that he dribbles too much, the TQ doesn't have an aggressive bent, leaving the DLF as the most natural role for him. I could have chosen TQ, but feel that that role isn't what he is doing irl. since he leads the pressing for the Reds. The whole frontline takes the cue from Firmino, when he presses the forward press begins.

 

5ab1b34a2bcaf_ScreenShot2018-03-21at9_19_31AM.thumb.png.23fe5cb7b5deee5ee39addbb225fab59.png

We haven't played too many matches, but Salah already has 2 hat tricks thus far. One in the champs league group stages and one in the premiership.

5ab1b50ee40b6_ScreenShot2018-03-21at9_26_47AM.thumb.png.a8e574783d788659aaac5f394228bcf6.png

The only reason why he will score less then 40 goals for me this season is his injury proneness. In my game he seems to get knocked about too easily. So I will need to "cotton ball" him, I do feel however, that he will easily hit any goalscoring milestone I set for him this season. Two hat tricks in 9 appearances, and 3 assists.

 

Interesting stuff Rashidi.

What makes you interpret Salah as an advanced forward rather than RMD or IF(A) from AMR.

Also with the tactic, do you change the roles/duties of the fullbacks occasionally? Because surely the system is vulnerable against 2 strikers and any structured system that has quick AML's/AMRs.

Does Henderson close down more or much more to help prevent overloads on right full back as well?

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This is my interpretation of Klopp. 

4-1-4-1 because players have better starting positions and our wingers from deeper positions are deadly. 

Second reason is 4-1-4-1 is more compact and better for pressing. 

I know that LM shout be creator but i like 2 scoring wide players.  Only issue I have is set up pressing traps, I can't set up rightly it. 

1521617444052234981401.jpg

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@Rashidi, how is the defending on your right flank? I see that henderson is set as a dlp support with a rampaging gomez on the right. Does having the wing back on attack work better for covering the flank from becoming too vacant in your games?

Edited by Jyuan83

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39 minutes ago, Tyrinko said:

This is my interpretation of Klopp. 

4-1-4-1 because players have better starting positions and our wingers from deeper positions are deadly. 

Second reason is 4-1-4-1 is more compact and better for pressing. 

I know that LM shout be creator but i like 2 scoring wide players.  Only issue I have is set up pressing traps, I can't set up rightly it. 

1521617444052234981401.jpg

Have you given the wingers any PI's to make them act differently? :)

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2 hours ago, Gegenklaus said:

Have you given the wingers any PI's to make them act differently? :)

Salah (RM) is "roumdeeper" like Distance Covered introduce him -roam from position, sit narrower, less crosses (i think it's all but i am not sure) 

Mane(LM) has sit narrower only I think. I will look at it when i will be at home and post it correctly.

 

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5 hours ago, Jyuan83 said:

@Rashidi, how is the defending on your right flank? I see that henderson is set as a dlp support with a rampaging gomez on the right. Does having the wing back on attack work better for covering the flank from becoming too vacant in your games?

I am playing with a high block,  so far its all action football.

 5ab2588bb0fa4_ScreenShot2018-03-21at9_04_12PM.thumb.png.d3389738468be25d5a70fbe809d305af.png

We are more vulnerable down the left than the right. Our right has produced 13 assists in the last 19 matches, If there are matches where I want to dial down, I turn to a low block version of the same tactic without changing any duties

I do some metrics when I analyse a tactic. I usually check:

SOT vs Total Shots, Shots Inside the box, vs outside, and Good Shots Indicator ( this is my own metric, basically I have to review every single highlight and determine whether its a good chance or not). So essentially after like 12 games playing this system I have found that while we have a SOT of between 40-85% and allowing the opposition only 14-30% in most cases, we seem to consistently produce 1 out of 3 good chances. Against stronger sides I am likely to play a low block, and sometimes against sides that don't want to come out and attack. In 50-50 games we usually prevail with our high block
 

 

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9 hours ago, NabsKebabs said:

Interesting stuff Rashidi.

What makes you interpret Salah as an advanced forward rather than RMD or IF(A) from AMR.

Also with the tactic, do you change the roles/duties of the fullbacks occasionally? Because surely the system is vulnerable against 2 strikers and any structured system that has quick AML's/AMRs.

Does Henderson close down more or much more to help prevent overloads on right full back as well?

A RMD does not stand on the shoulder of the last man, he operates in spaces. I don't really see him playing like that. An IF is the second best option imho, but he already has the player trait, and playing as an AMR is also possible. I have an alternate version of the system with Mane as the AP(S) and Salah as the IF(A), I just prefer this version as its ripping goals in a lot of sides. I do a high block, so hendo closes down more.

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@Rashidi It's always interesting to see your interpretations of RL tactics. Valverde's 442 at Barca (with Coutinho and Dembele wide) is the only one left for you at this point I believe. :D

For Liverpool I would choose the CM in the middle to be DLP-D and the MCR to be Carrilero. But that is only in theory without trying out.

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18 hours ago, Rashidi said:

After a slow start where I was messing with configurations, we finally settled on a system where Mo Salah is blowing away the opposition singlehandedly.  Along with Mane, and Firmino he forms a devastating partnership upfront for my Kop Diaries save. The goal here is to recognise the changes made to Liverpool since the departure of Coutinho.

In a recent interview captured by FootballItalia, Mane remarked that since Coutinho has left he now has the responsibility of dropping deeper to connect midfield to the attack. This is captured by me using him as an AP(S) which allows him more license to move around the pitch. Gini Wini has always been a half space player, that much was acknowledged by Klopp himself in an interview a few months back where he explained how he uses Gini in the half spaces. I wanted Mane and Gini to work together, naturally there is a bit of collision, but I love it because it makes it almost impossible for us to lose the ball down the left, allowing Andy Robertson to replicate what he does irl, bomb down the left flank. 

Salah's positioning down the right is unquestionable, as this is the favoured position Klopp plays him in, explaining why he leads the Europe with the most number of left footed goals this season. Bobby Firmino can be played as an F9, TQ or DLF, the problem with the F9 is that he dribbles too much, the TQ doesn't have an aggressive bent, leaving the DLF as the most natural role for him. I could have chosen TQ, but feel that that role isn't what he is doing irl. since he leads the pressing for the Reds. The whole frontline takes the cue from Firmino, when he presses the forward press begins.

 

5ab1b34a2bcaf_ScreenShot2018-03-21at9_19_31AM.thumb.png.23fe5cb7b5deee5ee39addbb225fab59.png

We haven't played too many matches, but Salah already has 2 hat tricks thus far. One in the champs league group stages and one in the premiership.

5ab1b50ee40b6_ScreenShot2018-03-21at9_26_47AM.thumb.png.a8e574783d788659aaac5f394228bcf6.png

The only reason why he will score less then 40 goals for me this season is his injury proneness. In my game he seems to get knocked about too easily. So I will need to "cotton ball" him, I do feel however, that he will easily hit any goalscoring milestone I set for him this season. Two hat tricks in 9 appearances, and 3 assists.

 

@Rashidi what TI's do you have to play that high block?

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25 minutes ago, Abdiel_rivera10 said:

@Rashidi what TI's do you have to play that high block?

I believe it's combination of TI's and PI's (even OIs) actually. You can check his youtube channel "bustthenet". I can kind of guess which ones but I'm sure it's best to leave it to him to explain it to you.

@Rashidi question,

 

As a variation on your interpretation, what would happen if one switched the Mez and DLP? Would the Mez get in the way of the AF or would it complement him? Maybe also dial back the WB on the right to Support duty. Would that create overload situation on right for the two playmakers from left to switch play to after attracting the ball on their side?

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@Abdiel_rivera10 I did a high block guide, and there are a few videos that show how I set it up with various teams like Ajax and Kingstonian

@yonko Interesting question, I don't think too much will change, except for a few things.. The third episode where I analyse how I evaluate chances is more interesting, the Kop Diaries haven't started yet, but they should next week. In that show I kinda "predict" we will score with our next chance in the box, based on our historical trend. It's my own analysis based on information we can get from the game.

5ab328b26cff9_ScreenShot2018-03-22at11_52_46AM.thumb.png.030859d454980e89f5adddbc2cff278e.png

Look at where Mane is when we defend, he is the AP and the Mezz is No 23. The closeness isn't an issue at the moment because they do split up

..5ab329782de62_ScreenShot2018-03-22at11_54_23AM.thumb.jpg.c1f2c2b982e5a6e4bf8ec398abd2ea8e.jpg

Why did I use a Mezz on the left?  cos I want the half spaces explored, and I want to give Mo Salah more space to do his thing if we have a quick breakaway. If I switch it around then Mo's breakaways are impacted by another player close to him on the half space, here I want Mo to attack the spaces on his own ,he has the pace, balance and ball control to do it. All Mo Salah really needs is a WB to feed him.

5ab32a0b6d194_ScreenShot2018-03-22at11_57_01AM.thumb.png.ce9fcbd054ade91921185421a42dda44.png

 In my save this dude is the King.'

5ab328292e7fb_ScreenShot2018-03-22at11_50_17AM.thumb.png.da9346186202ba7790db0c61fbb8375c.png

 

 

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It would seem that striker roles would lend itself to more goals than assists especially if you want to create the run that salah is on right now. I understand what rashidi meant by the raumdeuter not really being on the shoulder of the last defender. In a way he honestly to me functions like a wide treq without the playmaker tag and is more usually seen where there is space to exploit like half spaces. IF role would work in terms of scoring goals but the fact that it is a wide role means that it would also lend itself to a fair amount of assists as well(cut backs and crosses). I honestly think the issue had been settled with salah being an AF off to the right. There might be a new role to account for this in the new fm19. A winger but one solely focused on scoring goals only. 

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So much like Rashidi worried Salah got injured in my save so he missed some games. He's up to 42 goals with 4 league games, an FA Cup semi final and a CL semi final to come so I was hoping he'd reach 50 but I think that might be optimistic, I'm sure he'd've made it without injury though!

Notable though that my 4-3-3-0 from the previous page produces *a lot* of goals, I signed Nabil Fekir in the Summer to play as a "first reserve" for any of Mane/Firmino/Salah and he has 30 goals for the season, Mane and Firmino both have 20 and Gini Wijnaldum, of all people, playing as the CMa has 15, it's pretty crazy. I'll be surprised if this can be maintained into the second season though.

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To be honest I've lost the desire to play FM at the moment. I can't watch the ridiculous angles that players shoot at anymore, or the situations players find themselves in and come to the conclusion that shooting is the best option.

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11 hours ago, anorthernboy said:

To be honest I've lost the desire to play FM at the moment. I can't watch the ridiculous angles that players shoot at anymore, or the situations players find themselves in and come to the conclusion that shooting is the best option.

Personally every third shot inside the box for me is a goal and with Salleh hitting 62% of his SOT he’s banging in the goals. Not doing badly with assists as well. He’s already scored 19 in 18 appearances. I am pretty happy with how we are carving open the opposition. 

Our toughest matches have been against sides like Man City. Against sides like Burnley we do produce quite a few long shots but that shouldn’t come as a surprise since they park the bus, forcing me to play more fluid with roaming to carve out better chances.

We are the top scoring team in every division across Europe atm, this edition of FM makes it easier to score if you think about your tactic in terms of player movement vs the opposition tactic. Most people look at their tactic in isolation, I am always making slight changes to my tactic based on what the opposition is playing.

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On 20/3/2018 at 22:29, Rashidi said:

5ab1b34a2bcaf_ScreenShot2018-03-21at9_19_31AM.thumb.png.23fe5cb7b5deee5ee39addbb225fab59.png

 

 

I understand your logic about Mané as AP because of the movement, but I don't like the playmaker status for him.

A bit offtopic: I love pairing my strikers in this way, one in the centre and the other to the side. Against two cbs works really nice. If I face a really slow cb, I change my AF to his side, to exploit that weakness.

I had a really similar tactic in FM17 (AP(A) in the CM instead of the MEZ; DLF (A) in the centre and CF(S) to the side) and it created nice overloads to one side to free up and exploit the other.

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I've just started a new Liverpool save because I wanted to try to master a game using a 442 system for once, as Salah said recently that they do play a 442, or 4411 and his position varies during the game. It's early days but Salah has 5 goals in 4 games playing as a SS with Firmino as a F9. It looks pretty much true to life, especially against higher pressing teams, with Firmino dropping off to receive the ball, turning and playing through Salah running onto the ball. I was tempted to use Mane on the left as an IW type role (heavily adjusted WM in reality) but decided with Robertson bombing down the left that I'd play Lallana as a kind of high and narrow playmaker from the ML position, with Mane based MR as a WM/W hybrid. Seems to be working even if it's not true to Liverpool IRL, but I've never got a 442 working before so I don't care! :D

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41 minutes ago, Tom8983 said:

I've just started a new Liverpool save because I wanted to try to master a game using a 442 system for once, as Salah said recently that they do play a 442, or 4411 and his position varies during the game. It's early days but Salah has 5 goals in 4 games playing as a SS with Firmino as a F9. It looks pretty much true to life, especially against higher pressing teams, with Firmino dropping off to receive the ball, turning and playing through Salah running onto the ball. I was tempted to use Mane on the left as an IW type role (heavily adjusted WM in reality) but decided with Robertson bombing down the left that I'd play Lallana as a kind of high and narrow playmaker from the ML position, with Mane based MR as a WM/W hybrid. Seems to be working even if it's not true to Liverpool IRL, but I've never got a 442 working before so I don't care! :D

Mate it is more realistic than you think. When you read interviews with Salah there is often talking about 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1. So what is looking like 4-3-3 in game can be 4-4-2 in starting positions.

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I started reading about greatest managers in history and found this picture in Sacchi's tactics. Isn't it same as LFC is playing after Coutinho departure and is something similiar what @Rashidi is using. 

2-4.jpg

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11 hours ago, Tyrinko said:

I started reading about greatest managers in history and found this picture in Sacchi's tactics. Isn't it same as LFC is playing after Coutinho departure and is something similiar what @Rashidi is using. 

2-4.jpg

That Milan team was just awesome, just look at those players . Doesn't really add much to the thread sorry, but it is one of the greatest teams I have ever seen. Inspirational, although I don't believe there are defenders of that quality anywhere in the world right now.

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Rashid, have you given Salah any PI's or is he a straight Advanced Forward with no mods?

Edited by waynehead

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On 3/26/2018 at 03:40, Tyrinko said:

I started reading about greatest managers in history and found this picture in Sacchi's tactics. Isn't it same as LFC is playing after Coutinho departure and is something similiar what @Rashidi is using. 

2-4.jpg

Interesting you mention this, I do want my team defending in 2 banks of four. The whole concept is pretty straightforward, we are organised, but with our movement off the ball and use of the ball, we want to create disorganisation in the opposition defence as the second screenshot shows.

5abdb5f2155f1_ScreenShot2018-03-30at11_56_30AM.thumb.png.bea1194523978b591a3d8adcb93d3de8.png

5abdb68f9a097_ScreenShot2018-03-30at11_59_34AM.thumb.png.9dee2d6b2fe6d93996edde2ec78bdec5.png

There are plenty of things possible with this match engine, for creative managers you are going to be miles ahead of the AI. There are some teams not many who can match us like Man City. So to some extent it makes me happy, cos if every team could counter us then it wouldn't be realistic. We should have the bad off day, however we should be able to railroad past most teams. it will be interesting to see how we do in Europe. We just pasted Arsenal 4-2, Huddersfield 5-2 and Spurs 3-1. Everton were a disappointing result (2-2) and Man City was a tough match away finishing 1-1, a game where clear cut chances inside the box were a premium. How we approach the game is chronicled in my new series - Kop Diaries on youtube.

 

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So I've completed two full seasons with Liverpool using the 4-3-3-0 from the previous page and it's worked very well. We score a lot of goals and win a lot of games, although sometimes there's a lack of control, 4-4 draws, 5-3 wins, that sort of thing. The front 3 of Firmino\Mane\Salah has been very succesful though in terms of goals and assists, their stats in all competitions for each season are as follows;-

SEASON ONE
Mane:- 46(7) apps, 19 goals, 15 assists
Firmino:- 49(2) apps, 27 goals, 20 assists
Salah:- 42(9) apps, 49 goals, 20 assists

SEASON TWO
Mane:- 37(5) apps, 13 goals, 18 asssists
Firmino:- 46(6) apps, 28 goals, 20 assists
Salah:- 43(7) apps, 40 goals, 24 assists

The rotation players for the front 3 and the CMa have also pitched in a fair amount, but nothing like Mo Salah, so I think the 4-3-3-0 is working at least in terms of getting high numbers from Mo, ably supported by his two colleagues.

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I'm in early Feb in the first season, Salah has 27 goals in 22 matches, very pleased with that. He's absolute dynamite, such a fun player to manage

However, he has been injured 7 times for a total of 14 weeks, and has just been injured for another 4-6 weeks. He's on average personal training intensity, my team is on average training intensity and I sub him off roughly every other game.

 

Is anyone else experiencing problems with injuries?

 

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1 hour ago, w_x said:

I'm in early Feb in the first season, Salah has 27 goals in 22 matches, very pleased with that. He's absolute dynamite, such a fun player to manage

However, he has been injured 7 times for a total of 14 weeks, and has just been injured for another 4-6 weeks. He's on average personal training intensity, my team is on average training intensity and I sub him off roughly every other game.

 

Is anyone else experiencing problems with injuries?

 

If I have two fixtures per week I go "very low" training intensity. I also put at least one rest day at the start and end of each international break (rest to try minimise the national team injuring my players, rest at the end to increase condition before the next club game). How much match training do you do? 

Of course sometimes you just get bad luck - I've seen a lot of the top, top players managed by the AI get serious injuries in training on this game as the AI always seems to run them into the ground - I have often seen players get injured then their substitute also get injured, particularly when I was Barcelona (I think people got frustrated by our high possession and got violent) or guys otherwise get injured within seconds of coming on being the current trend on my United save - despite being almost perfectly fit.

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8 hours ago, zlatanera said:

If I have two fixtures per week I go "very low" training intensity. I also put at least one rest day at the start and end of each international break (rest to try minimise the national team injuring my players, rest at the end to increase condition before the next club game). How much match training do you do? 

Of course sometimes you just get bad luck - I've seen a lot of the top, top players managed by the AI get serious injuries in training on this game as the AI always seems to run them into the ground - I have often seen players get injured then their substitute also get injured, particularly when I was Barcelona (I think people got frustrated by our high possession and got violent) or guys otherwise get injured within seconds of coming on being the current trend on my United save - despite being almost perfectly fit.

Match training is on the third notch from the left, I think 40% match training 60% general

I'll try the international break thing, though I do give my players a few days rest from training every so often

Looking at his stats, Salah gets fouled on average 2.5 times a match in the league, 3 times a match in continental and 4 times a match in domestic cup, I wonder if that has an affect?

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4 hours ago, w_x said:

Match training is on the third notch from the left, I think 40% match training 60% general

I'll try the international break thing, though I do give my players a few days rest from training every so often

Looking at his stats, Salah gets fouled on average 2.5 times a match in the league, 3 times a match in continental and 4 times a match in domestic cup, I wonder if that has an affect?

Maybe double check that mate, they appear to have flipped it around in the last update. So I usually have it on 2nd one from the left. Also if I have a truly ridiculous run (like my Lyon save where postponements meant that we had something stupid like 3 games in 7 days then two games per week for 6 weeks, or just if you're in Spain and make progress in the Copa del Rey) I put it to only one notch from the left and make any spare general training days into rest days. Someone like Salah is never going to miss an international game, especially considering how the AI treats its players, so try to look for the exact dates he's on international break and shedule rest days on the outside of those dates. 

Try to compare that to other players being fouled. Also keep a note of the type of injuries - if its "injured doing a sprint" its not to do with your opponents, whereas "being tackled" means maybe your opponents are playing like 1960s Leeds against you. 

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4 hours ago, zlatanera said:

Maybe double check that mate, they appear to have flipped it around in the last update. So I usually have it on 2nd one from the left. Also if I have a truly ridiculous run (like my Lyon save where postponements meant that we had something stupid like 3 games in 7 days then two games per week for 6 weeks, or just if you're in Spain and make progress in the Copa del Rey) I put it to only one notch from the left and make any spare general training days into rest days. Someone like Salah is never going to miss an international game, especially considering how the AI treats its players, so try to look for the exact dates he's on international break and shedule rest days on the outside of those dates. 

Try to compare that to other players being fouled. Also keep a note of the type of injuries - if its "injured doing a sprint" its not to do with your opponents, whereas "being tackled" means maybe your opponents are playing like 1960s Leeds against you. 

Alright I'm pretty sure it's the right way but I'll check

He's had 3 twisted ankles, pulled knee ligaments and strained knee ligaments, and then two bruises

 

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I think the 4-3-3-0 striker-less is the way to get the best representation on what Liverpool do in the current ME.

I can see why/how @Rashidi gets the best from Salah in an attacking sense, but that's not so close to how Liverpool line up for real in my opinion. Salah is an inside forward, but the IF role in FM doesn't replicate how Salah plays. If you look at his position when Liverpool defend, yes sometimes he hangs out, but often he's back in his own defensive third of the pitch. But when they attack, yeah, he gets very narrow, into the spaces that an AF would occupy. He's like an IF with a turbo-charged Attack duty!

On top of that, Liverpool tend to play Oxlade-Chamberlain on the right of the midfield three in what looks reasonably close to a MEZ/S role.

All that said... I think it's very hard/impossible to replicate what Klopp gets his team to do in FM. He has this kind of 'Blitzkrieg' move where the front three all attack the space occupied by the opposition CBs to create a 3v2 overload. Watch how close they get to one another at times - you could throw a blanket over them! You'd have to play a 4-3-3 narrow to get that. The roles that FM offers doesn't allow both the exaggerated attacking movement and the defensive responsibility that Klopp demands from either his front three or his midfield three.

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On 20.3.2018 at 20:40, TheJanitor said:

Just looking at the match report at whoscored, the average positioning:

BlsmOXG.png

As-salamu alaykum.

I watched my first CL match in a long time on Wednesday (living in the Far East is not ideal for European nights) and thought to myself that it should be possible to replicate the shape of the Klopp system at least. It will be impossible to replicate triangulated pressing patterns and the Mo Salah goals and heat maps and all that, but I did make an effort.

(Personally I think Rashidi is pretty darn close with his, mine is just a strikerless to offer another option)

 5ac7d9bcc14ac_avgpositionvstott.thumb.png.48dabc97a4f92102a007671ebd904677.png5ac7de552e5be_LFCtac.thumb.png.b792b45c257db4accfdff7e40ada5ba6.png5ac7e147b2411_LFCTI.thumb.png.ec0fce8e96da7a1772bc5346a1155164.png

This is the average position for the most part. I have an away tactic for the really tough matches (City, United, Juventus, Chelsea away) that is more probing and less possession oriented, but 85% of the games I get these positions.

Karius: Distribute to center backs.
TAA: Tackle harder, more direct passes and stay wider.
van Dijk: N/A
Lovren: N/A
Robertson: Tackle harder, fewer risky passes and stay wider.

Ox: Tackle harder, more risky passes.
Henderson: Tackle harder, pass it shorter, fewer risky passes. (DLP(d) is also a viable option for added %).
Milner: Tackle harder (can be used as a DLP(s) if you want to increase possession).

Salah: Roam and pass it shorter.
Firmino: Roam, pass it shorter, move into channels.
Mané: Sit narrower.

The results so far (almost Xmas):

fixtu.thumb.png.3d38c199e0d26735dd633fe65accbb3f.png
 

Same squad as IRL, no ins or outs. 

Salah:

Salah.thumb.png.62fae10bcc99e01ab1bfea17cdc72309.png

So he's not producing 1 goal per game, but all the goals he's scored have been of the Salah variety. Long runs in behind the defense and whipped into the opposite corner of the goal. He's also given us at least 3 pens that I can think of. Whenever he's fouled it's always in a dangerous position. He also scores a lot of 1-0 goals from open play, which is very nice.

The obvious issue with this tactic is that it is somewhat exploitative. You have tremendous gegenpressing opportunities with three bodies in the AM strata, you'll have huge amounts of CCC's. I'll post one from the Burnley away game in the bottom, just to illustrate. Salah will get tons of CCCs and as such, if he doesn't tuck it in his ratings will suffer. In the Burnley game he had 4 clear cut chances that he blew and finished with a 5.8 rating. The tactic is exploitative towards the match engine as you'll get a lot of one-on-ones with the opposing GK. We all know how that works in FM.

5ac7e3f8e3a00_burnleystats.thumb.png.75d6203ffd3e1398ac2eb4631fa6b228.png

Edited by Ji-Sung Park

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Damn impresive results friend. Just out of curiosity, Did you consider to move Mane centerally?

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Alright so the season isn't over yet its only April the 14th but we've already secured the title. Our only defeat was the Carabao Cup, we're still in all competitions, having just bundled PSG out 13-3 on aggregate, we rested Salah in our last game and put 5 past Watford. My biggest fear is losing Salah to injury.

 

5acb7896d01e4_ScreenShot2018-04-09at10_28_15PM.thumb.png.1182e280cfb430102ab706bbbae1f070.png

 

As I said all along, I wanted this system to be Salah-specific, so he gets all the attention, and he has a fantastic on target ratio of 62%. Our club has only got a 41% OT ratio, we do lead the league in raw attempts though. The Egyptian Pharaoh has now scored 53 goals in 49 appearance, and is on track to break Shearer's record of 36 goals which he achieved in 42 games, Salah has 12 more chances  to do that. He has scored 5 hat tricks this season, 3 in the champions league and 2 in the premier league and he also leads Europe in assists with 22 in all competitions.

With 33 games Liverpool have scored 91 goals and are probably not going to break the league record of 105 goals in one seasons, unless Man City,  Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea decide to lie down, yes they are the last few teams and with Champions league semi final beckoning, it's time to rest the Egyptian Pharaoh.

Interesting fact: These are the other top performers:

Roberto Firmino - 35(2) Appearance 32 goals 10 assists
Ben Woodburn - 28(7), 12 goals 10 assists

Highest average rating apart from Salah,  Joe Gomez the wingback and Roberto Firmino, Virgil Van Dijk and Andy Robertson.

We produce a large number of chances inside the box, which is my preferred system. We sometimes do find it hard against very defensive sides, case in point: Brighton and Hove Albion > We pounded and pounded but couldn't score in fact we nearly lost the game. Man United beat us in the Carabao Cup playing defensively, and we also failed to get past Newcastle and Everton this season, highlighting our frailties against some of the weaker sides. I produced a 1-0 scoreline against Palace, and was held by the Geordies. So while we can be devastating against sides that come out and attack us, we are also vulnerable when we throw ourselves irresponsibly in attack. So in essence I am happy with how we are playing, I am just waiting to see if Salah can score more

.5acb7b7e324c1_ScreenShot2018-04-09at10_40_46PM.thumb.png.5973213bc176d434f45b2cd74c0bd02c.png

A large number of shots inside the box, is fairly indicative of how we play against sides that give us space.

And then when we play against defensive sides, we are so very typically Red.

5acb7cbc24a3d_ScreenShot2018-04-09at10_46_05PM.thumb.png.6db0043c379ec04d8e86a6a816e099e8.png

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1 hour ago, Rashidi said:

My biggest fear is losing Salah to injury.

So is Klopp's. :)

What happened to Mane in your save? I see you don't mention him. 

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Got injured twice in a row, out for quite a while, returns and in his first game back scores. (Mane). Yeah and since my last post, he (Mo Salah) has rewritten Shearer's record.

Salah is 2 goals shy of Ronaldo's record of 17 goals in one champions league season, he has scored 15 so far, and we play Atleti in the final of the champions league. He fired home the winner in an FA cup final match where we played with 9 men against Arsenal, and played better when we were 9 men than when we had 11. So overall for the season....

Salah has bagged 62 goals in 60 with one champs league final left.

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9 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Got injured twice in a row, out for quite a while, returns and in his first game back scores. Yeah and since my last post, he has rewritten Shearer's record.

Salah is 2 goals shy of Ronaldo's record of 17 goals in one champions league season, he has scored 15 so far, and we play Atleti in the final of the champions league. He fired home the winner in an FA cup final match where we played with 9 men against Arsenal, and played better when we were 9 men than when we had 11. So overall for the season....

Salah has bagged 62 goals in 60 with one champs league final left.

I really struggled to get something like this working at all. I couldn't even get him to have a shot on target never mind score 62 goals in 60 games. Obviously team instructions and player instructions play a part but what I've had success with for Burton and Plymouth did nothing. I lost 2-1 away to Chelsea having 9 shots 1 on target and 36% possession. Ive never had that low before. For whatever reason I can never get Liverpool firing so I never play as them on FM even though they're the team I've supported for over 40 years.

 

Not giving up though!!!!! It'll just take a lot more thinking that usual because I don't normally have to I know what works and what doesn't for the most part so I know I'll make it work.

Edited by Old Scouser Tommy

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On 6.4.2018 at 23:17, Ji-Sung Park said:

The obvious issue with this tactic is that it is somewhat exploitative. You have tremendous gegenpressing opportunities with three bodies in the AM strata, you'll have huge amounts of CCC's. I'll post one from the Burnley away game in the bottom, just to illustrate. Salah will get tons of CCCs and as such, if he doesn't tuck it in his ratings will suffer. In the Burnley game he had 4 clear cut chances that he blew and finished with a 5.8 rating. The tactic is exploitative towards the match engine as you'll get a lot of one-on-ones with the opposing GK. We all know how that works in FM.

5ac7e3f8e3a00_burnleystats.thumb.png.75d6203ffd3e1398ac2eb4631fa6b228.png


Yes. Due to the narrowed play the one on ones are likely mostly at no much angle (off a central through ball with the goalie standing straight between goal and forward), meaning they are/should be roughly 1 in 4 to 1 in 5 chances. A "good" exploit makes you have fantasy conversion rates, anyhow. No angled one on ones were a topic of debate a few versions ago due to a bug that could be abused,  and the consensus of the coder as well as some of the mods was that they aren't all that hugely easy chances (still some tweaks were made to the keeper reach AFAIR). The term one on one gives it away that the keeper is in play anyway and typically has the edge -- however, if the forward is approaching the goal with little angle to work with, that's making it easier for the keeper. E.g. any through ball that is played straight between the CBs rather than the channels between FBs and CBs, or anything similar, possibly even with the ball played into the forwards back rather than his running path, so that he has to turn and shoot such as in this vintage clip, has always been some more difficult to convert from my exper ience. I'd watch some out for it either way.

Edited by Svenc

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http://www.zonalmarking.net/2018/04/05/liverpool-3-0-man-city-citys-system-liverpools-pressing-bring-three-goals-in-30-mins/

A great article by Micheal Cox about Liverpool's best performance when they thrashed us! The diagrams may be a bit skewed however by defending the whole of the second half, especially when they were facing the best side in the world, naturally it'll be slightly different compared to most weaker teams they face. 

Edited by FlairRA

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So we have finished the season, a proper match by match analysis is done on my YT channel, but for the purposes of this thread:

The goal was to create a Salah Specific system. I also wanted to replicate how Liverpool play irl, by capturing the sense of dread any LFC fan feels when we lose the ball, and the sheer exhilaration we feel when we win it back and start a counter.

To put things in perspective we lost once this season in the Carabao Cup against United, but it was also our only defeat. Along the way we hammered PSG, Real Madrid. We won the FA Cup coming back to score the winner after going down to 9 men, won the champion's league with 10 men after seeing a player sent off in the 6th min.

5accda6737740_ScreenShot2018-04-10at11_37_52PM.thumb.png.403d99df844eed7fbe2c92bd7ea62ed6.png 5accdb015e12d_ScreenShot2018-04-10at11_39_07PM.thumb.png.b78e9968d3e56bdda908ffd67c042ccf.png

Now if you count his two international goals Salah scored 62 goals this season. We haven't named this tactic yet as I am still canvassing for names on social media.

5accdb4674abc_ScreenShot2018-04-10at11_41_36PM.thumb.png.2be02d932630357735c8eb29e02f549c.png

It's a fairly simple system that employs LFCs tactic of smothering midfields they have done it many times this season, and our preferred way of scoring is once we win the ball back in midfield, and this usually results in a lightning quick move that involves either the DLP or the Mez acting as the creative pivots. I use Mane as the AP(S) because I want him to drift laterally along the lines, sometimes he ends up on the right sometimes he hangs about in the middle and this gives him a bit more freedom. The two wingbacks are central to our plan on smothering the midfield. To do that we ask them to sit narrower, this helps the team in possession of the ball and keeps us compact, but once we are in the final third players like the AF or one of the WBs will take the ball wide.

So far this season LFC have been destructive at home winning every single home game this season. A perfect record.

Away from home we have dropped points to :
Hoffenheim
United (1 nil defeat - Carabao Cup)
Man City
Everton
Wolves (FA Cup)
Brighton

We have found it hard against teams that either play a 343 (Wolves) or those that play deep and defensive. Teams that come out and attack us inevitably play to our strengths. In matches where we played against defensive sides we have been forced to play more fluid. 

To maintain Salah's fitness levels we did have two rest days between matches between December and the last game of the season.  A bit of a blemish that Carabao cup defeat to United  but it came hot on the heels of an important league match and a ECL match. We need to do better next season. I wish my Kingstonian side could do this with this system, but they can't. It seems that this system seems to suit LFC's particular players : Trent Alexander Arnold, Salah, Robertson, and the addition of Donnarumma, made all the difference this season, along with Mathis De Ligt, tho to be honest he really only played a lot at the start of the season.

5accdb7039675_ScreenShot2018-04-10at11_42_00PM.thumb.png.c484636a02f1589e653d855083aacd9c.png

'

 

 

Screen Shot 2018-04-10 at 11.47.04 PM.png

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