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dan_bre_1988

Getting the best out of 2 AMs and striker

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So i'm playing as Spurs nearing the end of the first season. Heading into the final 6 games minimum which will decide whether it's been a great or good season. Realistically im going to finish 4th-6th in the league and in the semi of both the Fa cup and CL but I have had massive issues getting the front 3 to perform. I play a 5221 WB formation with Alli and Eriksen in AMC strata behind Kane. They have all had ok seasons but nothing spectacular. Alli and Eriksen have had a few assists and Kane 24 goals in all comps but not played regularly well at all. I'm starting to think that you can't play well with 2amcs behind a sole striker on FM18. I've tried alsorts. Alli as a shadow striker with Kane DLFs and Eriksen APs. Tried Alli as AMa with Kane DLFs and a CFs. Eriksen as an AMs.

Usually play on control mentality with no PIs and only TIs being close down more and high d line playing offside. Tried counter instead of control to try draw the opp out a bit and give Alli and Eriksen more room to make runs/passes between the lines. I have had a decent season imo but front 3 have been a big source of frustration and all 3 average below 7.

If somebody managed to get them working in that formation I'd love to know how.

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3 hours ago, dan_bre_1988 said:

Here's a SS for clarity on my roles and duties as a whole.

 

5a56847365395_TottenhamHotspur_Overview-2.thumb.png.f6504b4d285914e8d81b9f9df90cb441.png

I also had an issue with this.headache working it. But I found something that worked but you'll have to use a standard mentality and a very fluid shape.considering the attributes spurs players have, you'll have success with it. Not plug and lay though. 

            Af.     Dlfs

                  Ams 

Wa.                               Wa 

           Dms.  Dlpd

     CD.    Cdco.  CD 

               Sks

Ti 

Close down much more

Tighter marking

Prvnt short keeper dstr 

Highest line

Play out of defence 

Low crosses 

More expressive. 

Pi 

Sk =dstr to playmaker,quickly

Dlpd =close down much less

Dms =fewer risky passes,get further forward

Ams =hold up ball, get further forward,direct passes

Dlf=direct passes, dribble more, move into channels. 

Af =roam

It's a 3-4-1-2 that offers you 4 passing options in the building up to avoid the opposition press and makes it easier for your gk to distribute out. The wingers are in the CM strata to force a high press without the ball. Ams starts the press from top and together with the Dms,dlf and CDco forms multiple diamonds to outnumber the opponent in the middle and dominate when attacking also offering passing options. 

Your issue might be the DMs role as I don't really favour your "dier and wanyama" options. Too mistake prone. 

But it works. 💪

          

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Honestly your tactic looks fine in theory. This sort of setup worked great with Spurs in the FM17 match engine, but in FM18 it leaves something to be desired. I think either central AMs or narrow tactics in general were nerfed somewhat.

My personal tweak was to make Alli and Eriksen flank Kane on either side as strikers. They could maybe work out wide in the AML/AMR slots too like Chelsea's 3-4-3.

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6 hours ago, denen123 said:

 

            Af.    Dlfs

I quite like the idea of this. Trying Alli as a DLFs, so he drops deep (as per his ppm) without (hopefully) dropping too deep and can then make his trademark late runs into the box to get on the end of crosses and through balls.

40 minutes ago, Argonaut said:

My personal tweak was to make Alli and Eriksen flank Kane on either side as strikers. They could maybe work out wide in the AML/AMR slots too like Chelsea's 3-4-3.

What player roles/duties did you give to Alli and Eriksen? I have nearly tried this too but I'm that stubborn I kept persevering with this tactic :lol:

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1 hour ago, dan_bre_1988 said:

I quite like the idea of this. Trying Alli as a DLFs, so he drops deep (as per his ppm) without (hopefully) dropping too deep and can then make his trademark late runs into the box to get on the end of crosses and through balls.

What player roles/duties did you give to Alli and Eriksen? I have nearly tried this too but I'm that stubborn I kept persevering with this tactic :lol:

I didn't want to try it too given the the aggressive nature of a DMs(he has "tackles harder" as a fixed ppm) and wanyama ain't no calm person.

but it worked in the end.but I play with opi's sometimes or against very pacy strikers.those odd through balls come once in a while. 

For your question, I made Alli that Dlf because of the finishing attribute he has.i did not want to waste it.eriksen took the Ams..

It's not plug and play though, but you'll enjoy the balance in movement to start with.achieved 50% conversion rate. Some games though.... Annoying. 

My English is not very top...ill inbox you any further improvements or changes. You can inbox me your views too. 

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@dan_bre_1988 I think I may of written your exact post! I have a game with Spurs, with an almost identical formation. And I just couldn't get my front 3 to hit top form. Tried all sorts of variations. What I found was that play tended to bypass them, and that a DLP would play balls over the top for WB's to run on to. Which meant the way we were playing led to us bypassing our very best players. 

At this point, I am probably going to drop the 5-2-2-1 system as I don't feel it gets the best out of the players that I want to build the team around. One thing I am interested in is using a 3 man central midfield formation, and use Alli as a Mezzala which seems to suit his style of play, as well as the pressing style of play which suits Spurs. Not sure how it's going to work yet but I will let you know how I get on!

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I think you might be expecting too much from your front 3 and focusing on them too much.

Look at what is around them, off top of my head Dembele can carry the ball but lacks vision to create.  Wanyama we know is a ball winner.  Really that's 5 deep central players who aren't creating for the front 3.  Now you might point at the BPDs but they are too deep to really create for 3 narrow attackers, especially once you in the final third.  OK you have 2 very attacking WB who will provide width and put crosses in but apart from that, I don't see how your going to create chances consistently.

You say your playing counter to draw opponents out but your pressing higher and pushing dline up. If anything your setup to camp teams in with a lot of supportive central players but then your WBs will be the ones trying to create something due to there higher mentality and instructions.  Plus if you want to make space for the midfielders to run between the lines, don't you want to be on the structured side to make space for them rather than bringing the players closer together?

For example, imagine how a deep creator like Saul, Veretti or Modric would play the CM-S role differently to Dembele.  Whilst not told to do anything different, there abilities such as Vision should allow them a greater choice of actions with there mental and technical skills enabling them to pick the best one and pull it off.

Edited by summatsupeer

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I'm another one with the exact same problem with what should be the ideal Tottenham formation (same as OP but control metality).  I've restarted my game 3 times already but I cannot make this formation work.  The biggest single problem is that Kane doesn't score anywhere near enough goals - something like a goal every 2 games.  I've tweaked many variations of aggressive, high pressing, I've tried playing much wider, I've tried making my DCs ball playing defenders, I've tried Kane as a target man and advanced forward, rigid and flexible shapes, but NOTHING works.

I really don't want to play Alli as a striker as this doesn't seem to be how they play IRL, plus he already scores enough without playing him even further up - it's KANE that's the problem despite his amazing attributes in the game (at last).  I'd really like one last ditch attempt to get this formation working,  please help!!!

Edited by MatchWinner

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On 12/01/2018 at 16:05, summatsupeer said:

Look at what is around them, off top of my head Dembele can carry the ball but lacks vision to create.  Wanyama we know is a ball winner.  Really that's 5 deep central players who aren't creating for the front 3.  Now you might point at the BPDs but they are too deep to really create for 3 narrow attackers, especially once you in the final third.  OK you have 2 very attacking WB who will provide width and put crosses in but apart from that, I don't see how your going to create chances consistently.

You say your playing counter to draw opponents out but your pressing higher and pushing dline up. If anything your setup to camp teams in with a lot of supportive central players but then your WBs will be the ones trying to create something due to there higher mentality and instructions.  Plus if you want to make space for the midfielders to run between the lines, don't you want to be on the structured side to make space for them rather than bringing the players closer together?

This is a very good point. Dembele vision is 7. I've tweaked tactic a bit past few games to the one above. In the old system I was playing Naingollan ad a b2b/Mezzela in the same formation but Dembele was playing better so I've started playing him a bit more. Might switch back to Naingollan in the CMs role and see how he gets on. Might offer a better passing option to get Alli and Eriksen into the game more. Ive noticed that in the game that all the play and chances generally go through my wing backs but if they having a bad day then I struggle so this could be a good pointer as to why so will definitely try that these last few games.

In terms of fluid/structured, it's something I need to learn more about as I've not really got to grips on the impact it has on the team and which suits what system/playing style best. I understand they bring players closer/further apart but that's about as far as it goes :lol: not really sure how positions will behave depending only on structured/fluid. Might have to start a new save just to play around with and see.

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I think you need a more creative player than Dembele or Nainggolan, again off top of my head he's a more a BBM/BWM. In terms of role/duty he needs to offer something different from the front 3 and if you want to draw opponents out you might do this better if the MC pair were in DM so they defend deeper.

bustthenet/rashidi has done a video on shape: 

 

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