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tsatsee

Help me "redesign" Allegri's Juventus

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Hello there,

First of all sorry for my english, it is not my native language, I understand it all, but can't write perfectly.

I am a huge fan of the Football Manager series for a long time, and as you will see, a huge fan of Juventus also. Every year I play with them. Load up the team because I know them, search a tactic, that suits me, and hit the play button. And I get bored of it. Because it becomes a "push the continue button" play. So this year, I want to make a tactic, that works well for me. Plays as I want to play, and hopefully bring so much succes.

So first I read a lot of this forum. I can't say, I understand it all the aspects, what you say, that is the reason I'm asking for help.

As I know, that Juventus defensive shape is a flat 4-4-2. They usually, don't press the opponents, just the two forward players, the striker, and the attacking midfielder. On defence they are narrow.

I found an article about it, with deep analyse.

" Their 4-4-2 is narrow and compact. This narrowness and compactness are necessary because Mandzukic, Cuadrado, Dybala and Higuain have to be able to support Pjanic and Khedira during the defensive phase. This shape is similar to Diego Simeone's Atletico Madrid in the defensive phase. The major difference is that Athletic Madrid plays a very active defense where they use pressing to guide opponent's ball movements into areas (flanks) they want to defend. In contrast, Juventus 4-4-2 is passive. It is because none of these six players in front of the defense is a great 1-v-1 defender. If they are too aggressive in chasing down opponents, it will leave more space for other teammates to cover, thereby increasing the chance for the opponent to open up the defense if they can resist Juventus's initial pressure. "

So, for the first part, I would like to play a narrow compact defensive line, with little pressure in our own half. So I decided to make the formation a 442 one.

formation.thumb.JPG.66c037dd682ea0b691adb106dea727db.JPG

 

Here is the formation I want to use, because i think this is the best replica for the defence. I manually add close down much more for the DLF-A and the AM. And decrease closing down to my CB-D, and DLP-D, and Anchor.

For the mentality I want to use standard, and Flexible. For TI-s i want to keep it simple. Higher defensive line, play out of defence. GK distribute to the fullbacks.

So how i would imagine to work this tactic in attack. Hands down the best player in the club at the moment is Paolo Dybala.

Dybala.thumb.png.0fd1d9703cfc5b35a29099e24eaccec9.png

He is good at everything. He is a creator, but also a finisher. I Want him the new icon at the club. So he need to create, and also need to finish as well. And here we are, the problem I'm facing.

In attack this I want to play. Play out of defence, most of the time around Pjanic as DLP-D. But I also think about a Volante-S, i don't know which one works better at the moment.

With Douglas Costa at the left side Winger support gives us a width, he can dribble down the sideline and cross, and if the space is not avaliable, he has many options. Simple pass to the WB-S, DLP-D, AM (Dybala).

On the right side i have Bernardeschi, who likes to cuts Inside, so this is the reason I decided a WB-a at his side, because the anchor man(Khedira) will stay deep, and the WB-A can use the space, when the IW-A cuts inside and hopefully pull his lb with him.

At the front i have Higuain. Who is a big striker, not to pacy, but has very good finishing, and strength. He can hold the ball, arrive for crosses, or just make first time finishes, when the situation rise.

And for Dybala. This is where i have problems. As I mentioned before, i want him a main man. Who create but also finish. He has a PPm the likes to come deep for the ball, so it won't be a problem, if he's got attack duty, because he won't be that advanced.

Firstly I think about Enganche. He can drop to spaces both sides. Make himself avaliable for passes. He can do killer balls, both the winger, or the IW, or the WB-a. And also, he can dribble, or arrive the box for finishes.

What do you guys think about my approach. Where could be the problems for my vision.

Every help will be appraciated. Later today I would like to post some analyse if you say, what should I look.

Thank you in advance.

 

 

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I've written a piece on Allegri's Juve a while back, however that was much more relevant for last season's system. 

First, I'd like to say that whilst your approach of valuing each player in their best suited roles/positions is technically a good approach, you seem to be missing the big picture approach in terms of tactical design. That being said, choosing the player role should be a question of:

 

1. How does the role of the player contribute to the overall style of play and interact with other players/roles/dynamics of the system?

just as much as

2. Which role values the best qualities of the player?

E.G. A Targetman would be pretty much useless without anyone crossing the ball or a F9 would be pretty much useless or less valued without anyone exploiting the space it creates or without anyone to link up in midfield.

 

To put things in perspective - Dybala can perform the functions you want him to perform in a variety of roles: SS, Treq, F9, AP(A), AM(A) and so on and so on. Learn the role's functions but also how it comes into interaction with players around him and finally: which attributes does your style of play demand? 

Hopefully this should help at least in terms of role-coordination :)

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Thank you for your annswer. I think I understand what you trying to say to me :)

It is good, to select roles for player attributes, but I need to know, what I want, and what roles help me achieve it.

I rethought my tactic a little bit, and testing know. I will write soon where I am, what I want, and ask you how to improve :)

 

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After a hole lot of testings, i think I found my problem. Because we are the Juventus, a lot of team in the seria A plays against us a very deep defensive line with one or two DMs, and they kill my attacks. I think I came up two solutions for this. Maybe I can go to counter, and pull them out, and when I get the ball, play long balls forward, to get in behind them, or I could play fast paced, but not long ball aproach to the pitch. How can i could possibly achieve that?

Lot of movements, shorter passing, lot of support, and some attacking roles. This way i think, if the opponent is not opened, with fast small passes, and lot of roam, they couldn't reacts normally.

So here i come to this idea, I need to test it out, because on paper I think it should be working.

First here is my team shape, and duties.

formation2.thumb.JPG.956bf37767f94e73d12ec55b45745e99.JPG

 

Let me explain my thougths about the only two attacking duties.

As I said above, most of the teams are playing a deep defensive line, with 1 or 2 DM-s, so if I add to much attacking duties, they just don't have enough space to operat with, and they will be seperated.

About the players.

For mentality, i think about standard, but maybe drop down a little bit to counter, if my players couldn't find any space at the final third.

For shape : Thinking about balanced.

For TI : definitely want a much higher tempo(mentioned above, whit a lot of movement, but deep lines, i need to break them down with passing), shorter passing, play out of defence, and be more expressive, to let the creative support players do their things. (I also need to check this out, it is better without it or not).

For shorter passing i see a lot of triangles even if i add roam from positins from some of my players (sorry for my paint :) )

 

formation.thumb.JPG.ff4f6148d56db96a87b96e2abf8a74d3.JPG

CB-D : I want them simple short passes, for the DM, CM, WB. Only for defending.

WB-D : Because the role, he will be still roam forward, maybe a passing option deep, or get in behind the Winger, if the space is avaliable.

WB-S : He need hard work rate, because he arrives and teh open spaces, what we will get, when the IF-A cuts inside.

DM-D : I want him to hold position, pick up the loose balls, and give stabilty if my WBs, and CMs is too forward.

CM-S : I want him one of my playmaker, without to force the other players to use him as a playmaker (Pi : Roaming, dribble less, shoot less often)

W-S : He is a crosser or a simple one-two plas with the WB-s, or the CM-s, or the AM-s. (Roaming? I'm not sure about it, we will see how he operates)

AM-S : Same as the CM-S, but a more advanced position. (Roaming, dribble less, shoot less often)

IF-A : He will run into space, score goals, if he has any, for the lot of movement ahead (Roam from poistion, shoot less often)

DLF-A : He comes deep to get the ball, pass it CM-S,W-S,AM-S,IF-A, and than press the backline or attack the box, if a cross is coming from both sides. (Roam from position, shoot less often)

In my head, it could work perfectly because i have the right players for this high tempo posession game. I will test it out today.

Your thoughts about this is always welcome and much appriciated.

 

 

Edited by tsatsee

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On 2018-01-10 at 15:49, LPQR said:

I've written a piece on Allegri's Juve a while back, however that was much more relevant for last season's system. 

 

Did you ever continued with the following parts?

However, I thought it was great and used it at Falkirk. Just tweaked the roles a bit. I was very interested if you used any PIs for the Mandzukic role. 

Sorry for OT

Skärmavbild 2018-01-25 kl. 20.00.06.png

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12 hours ago, ekstromlars said:

Did you ever continued with the following parts?

However, I thought it was great and used it at Falkirk. Just tweaked the roles a bit. I was very interested if you used any PIs for the Mandzukic role. 

Sorry for OT

Skärmavbild 2018-01-25 kl. 20.00.06.png

As far as I remember, the PI's were "hold up ball" and "move into channels", as that illustrated how Mandzukic played last year. Yet again, the player traits, such as insane workrate and stamina, made him track back a lot on the left hand side. So you're right to choose roles that fit your players, however keep in mind the balance of the tactic - for example a CF on the centre-left seems a bit too risky in my opinion and will leave quite a significant gap on the left since he tends to operate high-up the pitch. 

I did not get the chance to follow up with another article on that system but can assure you the save in which I used it was one of the best Juve saves I've had in FM - and I've had more than a few :lol:

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11 minutes ago, LPQR said:

As far as I remember, the PI's were "hold up ball" and "move into channels", as that illustrated how Mandzukic played last year. Yet again, the player traits, such as insane workrate and stamina, made him track back a lot on the left hand side. So you're right to choose roles that fit your players, however keep in mind the balance of the tactic - for example a CF on the centre-left seems a bit too risky in my opinion and will leave quite a significant gap on the left since he tends to operate high-up the pitch. 

I did not get the chance to follow up with another article on that system but can assure you the save in which I used it was one of the best Juve saves I've had in FM - and I've had more than a few :lol:

Yes, I try to balance the aggressive CF role with some PIs + CWB --> WB & adding the DM. Seems to work fine even though I tend to use 4-1-4-1 in the European cups & the away games against Celtic/Rangers. 

I really liked the tweaks with "Cuadrado-role", bagged points like there was no tomorrow! I will be sure to follow when you decide to write something up again. 

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