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ARGUS 343 Knap FM18

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On 21/07/2018 at 19:42, knap said:

ARGUS is the top overall and underdog tactic but PILGRIMAGE 343 is top sub top. If you start having problems at Home try PILGRIMAGE

pilgrimage for all home games????and which version.......

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Hello knap dou you have any ppm for the players....in any position..... thanks for your time

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21 hours ago, knap said:

Movement and one two ppms

thanks again mate you are the best.....

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This strategy is amazing. I started using it at the end of my second season with Marseille, when my team was struggling to finish top 3 in the league. Ended up 3rd, winning the French cup against PSG and the Europa League against AC Milan.

And, now, at the beginning of the third season, my team is top of the league after 8 games with a +25 GD and won its two first games of the Champion's League against Real Madrid (2-1 at home) and Juventus (3-0 in Turin). It's looking good and my team will definitely fight for the title this year.

Btw, I'm using the strategy on FM Touch on the Nintendo Switch because I like to play on the go. I picked the individual player instructions just by downloading them and opening the strategy using the FM 2018 demo.

Edited by omcyril

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3 seasons in with Rangers using Argus when underdog, Pilgrimage when favourite and a SUS tactic when needed. Haven't lost a domestic match for two and a half seasons and got to the Champions League Semis in season 3. Using mostly Scottish players as well, excellent work Knap.

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3 hours ago, StewG said:

3 seasons in with Rangers using Argus when underdog, Pilgrimage when favourite and a SUS tactic when needed. Haven't lost a domestic match for two and a half seasons and got to the Champions League Semis in season 3. Using mostly Scottish players as well, excellent work Knap.

Is that with the new update (18.3.4)?

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37 minutes ago, buffon13 said:

Is that with the new update (18.3.4)?

Yes it is.

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End of the second season in the Premier League with Sheffield United. Sacred champion with 32 wins, really amazing this tactic. Cutrone contributed to the success with mammoth stats. And I'm in the final of the Champions League after winning Real Madrid and Bayern Munich!
I played 80% with ARGUS away + big Champions League games / PILGRIMAGE home and 20% MIDSOMER FLAT 442 because last year I will play with this more realistic tactic. Again thank you Knap.
 
 
 
 
487/5000
 

Patrick Cutrone_ Vue d'ensemble Profil.png

Sheffield United_  Compétitions.png

Sheffield United_ Joueurs Joueurs-2.png

Première Division anglaise_ Vue d'ensemble Phases.png

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@knap any issue on 2nd or 3rd season with this tactic (and with tactics overall) ? 

 

I am starting 2nd season in a sloppy style (while line-up remains nearly the same).

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What happened in 1st season?

Are you using AM for team talks press training ?

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Everything went well on first season, best attack, best defense, using AM as you said. 

I added some depth and slight improvement (so no big squad revolution) then starts the second season in perfect shape, using AM as usual. 

And here it appears that I concede lots of chances (often more than I have) eventually conceding goals - surprising turn regarding 1st season where I barely conceded couple of changes a game. Also scoring less. So doing frustrating draws 3-3, 1-1, even 0-0, hardly winning against newcomers in Ligue 1, and getting smashed by top guns.  

Is it possible that the AI has already adapted to the tactic ? I thought it was more around the 3rd season (still true ?). And if yes, what can we do ? Aside radically changing tactic ? 

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2nd season syndrome!

If you have a save that you can send me I can investigate further.

The "sloppy style" indicates that your players are not playing to their full ability. You may need to change something  to change the player attitude. The easiest change to make is tactics so try PILGRIMAGE 343 or any tactic that suits squad.

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Crap...I thought I could enjoy a tactic for at least two seasons before tweaking or changing it. 

Is the AI adaptation quicker on FM18 ? Have you tried a single tactic for many years (up to two) ? 

 

Anyway I asked cause it seems people posting here, plays the same tactic two years in a row, still having good results. 

 

 

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Apart from the test with Arsenal which need to open defences to win, it is also tested over 178 games with sub top and under dog teams. With the underdog test that is 89 games or more than 2 seasons.

There was a reputation test last year which indicated that just by changing reputation the tactic was less efficient. However if you improve team this should at least equal the increase in reputation.

Are the AI using different formations than the previous year? If you can send game I can look at the issue.

 

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I actually went from "national" reputation to "continental", might be the reason (while improving "softly" the team).  

I will have a deeper look on opposing teams tactics. 

 

I will see how to upload you the save and send it. 

 

 

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Knap, I'm a bit confused with all of  the versions! I am playing as Oxford, BET League 1, not very talented. Which of the versions of this tactic should I be trying?

Thanks!

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I`m playing in the full game knap with Bolton, one of the favourites to go down and in financial meltdown.

If you were not in fmt, would you use 12.2.2? 

Also which training do you have the team on for general and for match training?

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No difference in ME but FMT avoids the SI Hassle factor.

All by AM unless retraining a player. I have used AM in full version for years

There is a training guide in one of threads.

As far as I am aware, all the long term tests are in full version just with a very specific set up.

Edited by knap

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This is from last year with regard to training

PRE-SEASON

general training -TEAM COHESION HIGH 

scheduling 50% (no rest before-no rest after match)

match preparation = MATCH TACTICS

 

before the 1st game of the season 

general training -BALANCE AVERAGE

(no rest before -REST after match)

keep 50% match preparation MATCH TACTICS until 100% fluid,

 

after that the training should be like this

general training BALANCE AVERAGE

(no rest before- REST after match)

10 or 20 % ( i prefer 10%) match preparation (whatever you like, it depends from the opponent - except match tactics and teamwork , its pointless to use these because when you have 100% fluid your players have good understanding)

this till the end of the season , of course if you buy some players in January you drop the familiarity and you must again adjust the scheduling to 50% and match tactics

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I put it on fitness in pre season and got the team gelling, and used match training at a higher ratio and got the tactics fluid.

Currently sitting 2nd in the league on goal difference with bolton after 15 games, very impressive given the fact we should be going in the other direction.

Do you recommend this tactic even for when you are favourites to win the the league?

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The independent tests shows PILGRIMAGE to be best sub top tactic but ARGUS is still best overall. If your are a top FM team then most tactics will win the league but as yet no independent top dog test.

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I have just run a two season holiday with Spurs to see if any noticeable variation between seasons and especially at start of 2nd season..

1895361115_Screenshot(379).thumb.png.121839f7b08907ed59b940804791e70d.png841122653_Screenshot(380).thumb.png.b35c02e3550e052f76b54e7b2a13274b.png1260956038_Screenshot(381).thumb.png.a9edbc7650ca3bf5805598c7747090dd.png

 

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FWIW data:

Playing with Oxford in BET League 1. Not very talented, struggling, no money for transfers.

I switched to the 18.2.2 version of Argus and the 18.3.3 Pilgrimage 343. I'm using Pilgrimage when we're the favorites and Argus when even or underdogs.

We are on a 15 game streak and now leading the league. In those 15 games we've won 13. One odd loss was against a team we were HUGE favorites in; not sure what the problem was but we lost 4-3. The other loss was a match in which we were small favorites, at home, which we lost 1-0.

In the latter, we started with Pilgrimage but for some reason they were dominating us. We could not penetrate their defenses. I switched at halftime to Argus (18.2.2) and we came alive, with many more shots than the opponent, we just couldn't get one to go in.

Overall I love the style of play with these. My players that seemed weak are now looking strong, and the goals are usually very pretty set ups. Nice passing into space, very nice off the ball movement.

This is with FMT18.

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When overcomplacent it is easy to lose - top club v bottom  club. PILGRIMAGE and ARGUS make a good combo.

 

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Spurs squad do not have a powerful forwards, so Kane needs to lead line and Alli in support.

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Il y a 12 heures, knap a dit :

I have just run a two season holiday with Spurs to see if any noticeable variation between seasons and especially at start of 2nd season..

1895361115_Screenshot(379).thumb.png.121839f7b08907ed59b940804791e70d.png841122653_Screenshot(380).thumb.png.b35c02e3550e052f76b54e7b2a13274b.png1260956038_Screenshot(381).thumb.png.a9edbc7650ca3bf5805598c7747090dd.png

 

Ha ha ! Looks like you have had no 2nd season syndrom at all... 

 

Question though, to rebound on what you were saying previously. 

Increase of reputation tends to mitigate a tactic effectiveness, but what happen when you reach top reputation ?  Is the tactic then used, effective for ever ? ^^
 

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You have top reputation by winning which usually means you have one of the best squads, so long term that is not an issue.

With FM08 somebody I think used my tactic for 80 seasons., 

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Il y a 2 heures, knap a dit :

You have top reputation by winning which usually means you have one of the best squads, so long term that is not an issue.

With FM08 somebody I think used my tactic for 80 seasons., 

80 years, oh my...

 

Thanks for the answers !

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Another point about poor form or 2nd season is the luck or unlucky series of games. The long term tests try to balance out luck

.MR L

Now, onto the testing method. Over the years, I have used every single test method possible, and learnt from my experiences every year. To me, the most important thing about a test league is the ratio of accuracy:time. This means that we must look at the bigger picture rather than simply trying to maximize accuracy for every single match. Every tester knows that testing a tactic for 50 matches is not enough, as the results would vary too much between every test. This is due to the random factors in the game that are unremovable. The only way to increase accuracy in this regard is thus to increase the number of matches played. Think of it like rolling a dice 10 times vs 10.000 times. If you roll a dice 10 times you could be lucky/unlucky, but if you roll it 10.000 times the luck part is gone. This is how casinoes make money!

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sorry knap again with movement ppm you mean moves into channels or gets forward???or somethning else....

sorry again mate....

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Any attacking  movement is usually good as opposed to stays back at all times. The awkward movement is tries to beat offside trap which works well with top players.

Edited by knap

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Hi knap just wondering and sorry if it's already been mentioned but what's the difference between the tactics with CUP in the name and tactics without? I'm using pilgrimage and Argus the versions after the top one in each thread home and a away respectively but I wonder if I'm missing a trick not using the top versions in the OP with cup in the names.
Thanks

Ps meant to add I thought it was for cup games until I saw you have a league table displayed next to both with cup results only for the top one

Edited by QuickZombie

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ALL CUPS just means that the tactic has probably won more games in a season, but because one unlucky game can get you knocked out of a Cup, I prefer just to use league table with ALLCUPS being a bonus.

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Il y a 20 heures, knap a dit :

Another point about poor form or 2nd season is the luck or unlucky series of games. The long term tests try to balance out luck

.MR L

Now, onto the testing method. Over the years, I have used every single test method possible, and learnt from my experiences every year. To me, the most important thing about a test league is the ratio of accuracy:time. This means that we must look at the bigger picture rather than simply trying to maximize accuracy for every single match. Every tester knows that testing a tactic for 50 matches is not enough, as the results would vary too much between every test. This is due to the random factors in the game that are unremovable. The only way to increase accuracy in this regard is thus to increase the number of matches played. Think of it like rolling a dice 10 times vs 10.000 times. If you roll a dice 10 times you could be lucky/unlucky, but if you roll it 10.000 times the luck part is gone. This is how casinoes make money!

 

Unluck series of game appeared to be the key for my 2nd season slump. 

I pushed all the small buttons to get the morale back on track (praising player for behavior, training...à. Played a couple of games in "counter" that resulted in clear victories.

Now I am rolling again like on season 1st ! 

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I have a question for @knap

Is there any way to know how you create your tactics, any steps or guide you follow? Maybe I missed that.... I'll appreciate to know please

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I create tactics by playing games and seeing what works. I may start with using as many PIs as possible or none and see how PIs work.

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Pick a good side that you have player knowledge, pick a formation from the set to selection. The 1st challenge is to win 1st game, if you do not work out why and restart. Keep going until you win 5 in a row the 10 etc. When you fail work out why and start again. Practice in a controlled environment is IMO the only way to find out what works

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Sounds silly but are the players meant to be lobbing the ball forward long ball style constantly? 

Also the midfielders seem to be non existent at trying to win the ball even though one is a bbm and one is a bwm.

I`m wondering whether its just the quality in my team that`s the issue, as I seem to be getting wobbly towards the end of the season. Still vying for first place though, just wondering if i need to make any tweaks?

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