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Cleon

Meet The Segundo Volante

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Great read ! thinking about changing my current setup (using one Volante) to two . i'll give more details if my 'project' is finished .

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I've started a new career because I loaded up a 10-tier file and wanted to start really low. I've retained my modification of your 4-2-3-1 with a segundo volante. I've just finished the first season in tier 10, which was somewhat too easy, but the highlight was one kid who appeared in my non-league Scottish academy - a Scottish-Mexican 16 year old who appears to have all the right attributes to be a star SV.  I've never actually seen a 'ready-made' SV at a low level before - I've always basically taken a DM/MC sort and tried to mould them into a SV, which takes a minimum of two years not including PPMs. I probably won't be able to keep him for long, but at least he should ensure me promotion for next season.

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Another nice post man. Just a question, who would you say is a modern day segundo volante? Is that what Vieira played at Arsenal to a degree?

I’ve tried the role a couple of times in my Bolton save but no success with it, guess the players aren’t quite good enough. Have 1 player who could do it, but is let down by first touch and finishing.

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18 minutes ago, craiigman said:

Another nice post man. Just a question, who would you say is a modern day segundo volante? Is that what Vieira played at Arsenal to a degree?

I’ve tried the role a couple of times in my Bolton save but no success with it, guess the players aren’t quite good enough. Have 1 player who could do it, but is let down by first touch and finishing.

I gave modern day examples at the start of the post :) and yeah I'd say Vieira was one.

Don't think a player with a couple of low attributes for first touch and finishing can't be any good at the role. He will just play the role slightly different but there is no reason who someone with great attributes but poor ones for the two you mention, can't fulfill the role. It's the overall skill set that is important, not the odd low attribute.

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6 hours ago, craiigman said:

Another nice post man. Just a question, who would you say is a modern day segundo volante? Is that what Vieira played at Arsenal to a degree?

I’ve tried the role a couple of times in my Bolton save but no success with it, guess the players aren’t quite good enough. Have 1 player who could do it, but is let down by first touch and finishing.

Pogba, Bakayoko, Khedira, Essien (at RM), Lucas Leiva, maybe Momo Sissoko back when he was playing for Liverpool

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18 hours ago, Cleon said:

However that wouldn’t have made much difference to his development as training is the driving force for attribute development for players under the age of 17 years old. It’s only once a player reaches 17 that game time becomes one of the main factors. Below that age it all comes from training.

Good read. Looking forward to trying out the role when I have a more suitable system. Just the one question though, I swear I read a post from one of the developer's here (and a quick search shows moderators referencing it) that game time matters once they reach 18, not 17?

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3 hours ago, Cal585 said:

Good read. Looking forward to trying out the role when I have a more suitable system. Just the one question though, I swear I read a post from one of the developer's here (and a quick search shows moderators referencing it) that game time matters once they reach 18, not 17?

Okay, well 18 then. Either way makes no difference as I could utilise him straight away.

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I have had success with Dortmund's Dahoud in this role. He got the stamina for it. He acts very much like a natural playmaker. He aint a great defender though so I place a true centerback and a defensive minded full back behind him. I really love the movement of the role because of the fact that it starts deep. 

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On 1/7/2018 at 21:36, Cleon said:

I gave modern day examples at the start of the post :) and yeah I'd say Vieira was one.

Don't think a player with a couple of low attributes for first touch and finishing can't be any good at the role. He will just play the role slightly different but there is no reason who someone with great attributes but poor ones for the two you mention, can't fulfill the role. It's the overall skill set that is important, not the odd low attribute.

Roy Keane as well

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Great read. Gives me knowledge about the position and how to use it. Fun thing I saw is that in the player development going from the second year to the third year, the Segundo Volante role familiarity goes down but his stats for it goes up. 

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47 minutes ago, Rooks said:

Great read. Gives me knowledge about the position and how to use it. Fun thing I saw is that in the player development going from the second year to the third year, the Segundo Volante role familiarity goes down but his stats for it goes up. 

My SV pie is never more than half full - it's just a result of so many attributes required. Same as Complete Forward. I just ignore it.

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Excellent analysis, Cleon, and thank you for enriching our fm (and football) experience.  I use this role in a sort of 442, with the two central midfielders in the DM strata - the SV paired with a DM(s).  Playing as Inter, I'm often up against very deep defences, and Seria A teams like to pack the midfield, so the SV is really crucial for unlocking defences and creating movement from deep.  However, as Cleon and others stress, it's an overpowered role and it's important to choose the players wisely.  I'm using three different players in this role and their attributes and especially PPM's add a whole new dimension to my tactic.

The first player I use is Marcelo Brozovic.  In real life he's a bit of a misfit, and for both the national team and his club he seems to be a jack of all trades, but not quite good enough to consistently fit into any role.  His sometimes prickly relationship with authority and propensity for hitting thunderb@stards when he's been written off make him one of my favorite players, but I digress.   His ppm's are are "dictates tempo", gets into opposition area, and most importantly, likes to switch ball to the other flank.  This makes for some wonderful play in that he'll often spot overlapping fullbacks of wingers who get into space, and the fact that he's attacking space from deep and drawing the opposition into awkward spots is fantastic.  He's also very fit and has good workrate.

 

The second player is Jack Wilshire.  His ppm's are gets forward, killer balls, and play his way out of trouble.  From time to time he gets caught in posession but it's a risk worth taking because he's also excellent at penetrating by both dribbling, and hitting killer balls when just when it seems he's lost the ball.  His main problem is fitness, so I try to use him as a supersub.

Finally, I have Marko Rog, who is an absolute beast.  High determination, workrate, and ppm's of runs with ball through the center, gets forward, and plays one two's.  He also has an engine that ensures he doesn't need to be subbed off by the 60th minutes. The thing is, none of his technical attributes are exceptional, but he's just a very good all around player who can do a bit of everything from the heart of midfield.

One of the best things about this role is that even on attack duty, with the right player and system, the defense is seldom exposed.  I used to put the SV on support duty against tougher opposition, but it's on attack duty that, given the space, he is able to truly come to life on the counter. 

Finally, perhaps I could be overthinking it, but I noticed the SV is especially valuable when play "breaks down" - for example on counterattacks, or when trying to bulldoze through packed defenses.  This is where attributes like anticipation and aggression really come into play. 

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