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ypsi

Seeking help for a defensively solid counter attacking tactic

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I've just started a new career with Leciester City. I've always struggled to create a good counter attacking tactic and now I'm having a go on FM18, but still not having any luck. I'd ideally like to utilize the use of Vardy, Mahrez and Gray on the break playing very direct on the break. 

First of all I would like to say that I have managed to make a relatively defensively solid tactic, but it doesn't pay off as the goals are next to none. 

I've read some pretty conflicting information with regards to strategy, but I've opted to play on "counter". Simple for the reason this is what I am trying to achieve. Would I perhaps be better with an attacking mentality? 

I've also got instructions to sit slightly deeper, in hope to stay a bit tighter defensively and hope to leave more space behind the opposition defense to exploit. 

Slightly Narrower as I am using an inverted winger that is left footed on the right hand side, and I want him to have a main role in my system. Also to stay defensively tight and not leave too much space for opposition to play in. 

More direct passing in hopes to play the ball forward quickly. 

 

My issue is there seems to be no urgency to get the ball forward and a lack of goals. Basically, if I concede a goal I lose the game. 

I've never been able to develop a good counter attacking tactic that exploits the space behind defenses. Any possession based tactic I overachieve with most teams. One of the main reason for wanting to play like this is on my Liverpool save, the way Man Utd play, is very difficult to beat. They have a very solid defense and seem to launch the ball forward quickly.

Any tips or comments on what I could try or what I am doing wrong would be appreciated.

 

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There's a guide to counter attacking football linked in the Guides section of the pinned thread at the top of the forum labelled "Please Read".

In a nutshell, it's important to understand what happens in the match engine when your team start a counter attack.  When a counter does start, any tactical instructions you set gets ignored by the Match Engine and your team go ultra attacking for the duration of the counter.  The ME itself takes over and works it's magic for counter attacks, so you don't have to.  Thus any tactical instructions you set are used by your team when you are not counter attacking (which is actually most of the time).  In other words, you don't have to try to guess which tactical settings you need to set to employ counter attacks - the ME does it for you.

Now, a counter starts when certain criteria are met.  This is to do with the number of opposition players (when you win possession) between your ball carrier and their goal.  The idea of the counter attack is to drop deep (so formation is very important) to draw out the opposition team, sucker them into over committing players forward, win the ball back and then let the ME take over with a fast counter.  This "ME counter" can happen with any system, using any mentality and formation - but becomes more likely if you use a complimentary formation (such as your 4-1-4-1) and if you use the Defensive, Counter or Overload mentalities (the ME's rules are relaxed with these mentalities).

That's a very brief overview, so have a read through that guide I mentioned at the top for more info.  You're actually not that far off :thup:.

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13 minutes ago, Atarin said:

I've actually read this 10 times over. In fact I actually copies this exact tactic in order to try and get the results I wanted, and I still did not have any luck. 

 

12 minutes ago, herne79 said:

There's a guide to counter attacking football linked in the Guides section of the pinned thread at the top of the forum labelled "Please Read".

In a nutshell, it's important to understand what happens in the match engine when your team start a counter attack.  When a counter does start, any tactical instructions you set gets ignored by the Match Engine and your team go ultra attacking for the duration of the counter.  The ME itself takes over and works it's magic for counter attacks, so you don't have to.  Thus any tactical instructions you set are used by your team when you are not counter attacking (which is actually most of the time).  In other words, you don't have to try to guess which tactical settings you need to set to employ counter attacks - the ME does it for you.

Now, a counter starts when certain criteria are met.  This is to do with the number of opposition players (when you win possession) between your ball carrier and their goal.  The idea of the counter attack is to drop deep (so formation is very important) to draw out the opposition team, sucker them into over committing players forward, win the ball back and then let the ME take over with a fast counter.  This "ME counter" can happen with any system, using any mentality and formation - but becomes more likely if you use a complimentary formation (such as your 4-1-4-1) and if you use the Defensive, Counter or Overload mentalities (the ME's rules are relaxed with these mentalities).

That's a very brief overview, so have a read through that guide I mentioned at the top for more info.  You're actually not that far off :thup:.

Thanks for that information, that's really helpful. I've check out where you are sending me but chances are I've already read it, as I have most of the resources here. Would there be anything obvious you would recommend for me to change with the setup I provided? If not, at least I know I'm on the right track.

 

 

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The guide @herne79 was referring to is what @Atarin linked you.

40 minutes ago, ypsi said:

My issue is there seems to be no urgency to get the ball forward and a lack of goals. Basically, if I concede a goal I lose the game. 

Isn't this an issue Leicester had in RL?  If they went behind that allowed the opposition to cover more to prevent counters forcing Leicester into a plan b.  You need to setup your roles+duties to be your plan b for when a counter attack isn't available.  I would say remove your TI's, Counter drops deeper plus narrower and as @herne79 explained you don't need to play more direct to create counters.  Then focus on how you will build attacks to create space to create a chance rather than "x player creates and y is main scorer".

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Just trying one of these myself with Arsenal. Went for 4123 dm.

Counter, fluid. No team instructions yet.

GK/D

RB - FB/S 

RCB - BPD/D

LCB - BPD/D

LB - FB/S

DM - DLP/D

RCM - BBM/S

LCM - APM/S

AMR - WGR/A

AML - RAM/A

CF - CF/S

 

Just played 1 friendly against weak oppo. Looks decent so far. Won 3-0. 2 goals from crosses to cf, 1 was an og from an indirect fk.

 

I had 17 shots to their 12.

5 on target to their 3.

 

Defensively only one real chance from opposition. Came from a switch of play then a through ball from their amr behind my rb. The rest of their efforts were shots from outside the box.

 

Concerns are cm's not being aggressive enough in the tackle, rb asleep for their big chance, amr sometimes a bit far forward and my cf taking a few too many long shots.

Would like to see a few more through balls into space but its the first game and the oppo played a defensive 343.

Will keep you updated on how it goes :thup:

Edited by Cam NBH

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Any side, playing any style can launch a counter, I think what you're describing is a team based around countering. Teams like that are often pretty hard to watch because they don't offer much else. I always found Martin O'Neil's teams like watching paint dry because they offered so little outside of breaking at pace with their 1 or occasionally two up front. Leicester over-achieved by mostly relying on counter-attacking football but they had other strings to their bow as well but they were often the product of a piece of individual brilliance from Mahrez or Vardy. Leciester's team play wasn't all that pleasing on the eye and if Vardy or Mahrez weren't at  it then Leicester really struggled to create anything.

So, I think your delimma is between being a well rounded team that launch counters vs a team that relies on counters but can be pretty tedious to watch and is very unlikely to be successful without at least a couple of individually brilliant players who can produce a piece of magic out of nothing.

 

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18 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

The guide @herne79 was referring to is what @Atarin linked you.

Isn't this an issue Leicester had in RL?  If they went behind that allowed the opposition to cover more to prevent counters forcing Leicester into a plan b.  You need to setup your roles+duties to be your plan b for when a counter attack isn't available.  I would say remove your TI's, Counter drops deeper plus narrower and as @herne79 explained you don't need to play more direct to create counters.  Then focus on how you will build attacks to create space to create a chance rather than "x player creates and y is main scorer".

This was some great advise. I decided that my main issue was that Vardy was becoming isolated, and opted for another box to box midfielder that would offer another support option. I made the change after an abysmal performance at palace, and well like you say, an alternative form of attack when the counter wasn't available was what was needed. With just that simple change and removing my TI's, it gave me exactly what I was looking for and actually just managed to qualify for Europa. Thanks everyone for your input.

 

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Edited by ypsi

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