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On 1/7/2018 at 14:53, Jean0987654321 said:

If we are talking about the position of Giggs, then I would say W (s). I don't recall Giggs cutting in much. Nani, certainly IW (a). Park Ji-Sung is a unique one but that position is easy (DW (s) w/ Get Further Forward, Roam From Position, Sit Narrower)

Giggs would be a heavily modified WM (S) with some player moves.

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Been thinking about this, as I’ve always wanted to make a similar system in FM but have never known where to start.

I think I would go with:

VDS: GK (d)

RB - Brown: FB (s)

CB - Ferdinand: CB (s)

CB - Vidic: CB (s)

LB - Evra: WB (s)

RCM - Carrick: DLP (d)

LCM - Scholes: DLP (s)

LW - Giggs: WM (s) - sit narrow

AMR - Ronaldo: IF (a) - roam from position

RCF - Tevez: DLF (s) 

LCF - Rooney: CF (s)

 

The key to getting this working is the individual players’ attributes and PPMs. Evra would get forward a lot, Giggs would play risky passes, Scholes and Carrick dictated tempo whilst Scholes would also switch the play to the flanks, Rooney and Tevez would both drop deep and had high work rate, Ronaldo shoot more often and had incredible physical AND technical attributes. You can’t plug any players in and make it work like that United side.

Mentality is tricky, so I’d sit in the middle and say standard. I also agree with those that say it was a more structured shape.

 

The secondary shape more often used in Europe would be a 4-1-4-1 with a pair of hard working CMs, two from Anderson, Hargreaves and Fletcher (playing as CM (s) or BWM (s) in front of a DLP (d), with two WM (s and a) wide and a CF (s) up front.  The striker would usually be Rooney or Ronaldo, and they would interpret the CF role very differently.

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3 hours ago, blehq12 said:

Would disagree with this part imo. Imho Ferdinand and Vidic weren't both as stoppers, one would cover for the other.

Btw @howard moon what are you TIs?

Oops, yes - that’s a mistake. They should both be on defend. No need to make them cover and stopper as their natural attributes make them play that way anyway.

Not sure about TIs as I’ve not actually used this in FM yet. But I’d say they could change depending on opposition. Perhaps play wider and play out from defence?

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21 hours ago, howard moon said:

Oops, yes - that’s a mistake. They should both be on defend. No need to make them cover and stopper as their natural attributes make them play that way anyway.

Not sure about TIs as I’ve not actually used this in FM yet. But I’d say they could change depending on opposition. Perhaps play wider and play out from defence?

When John O Shea played he would usually function as a CD (D).

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Just now, goqs06 said:

When John O Shea played he would usually function as a CD (D).

agreed.

On 1/14/2018 at 04:18, howard moon said:

Been thinking about this, as I’ve always wanted to make a similar system in FM but have never known where to start.

I think I would go with:

VDS: GK (d)

RB - Brown: FB (s)

CB - Ferdinand: CB (s)

CB - Vidic: CB (s)

LB - Evra: WB (s)

RCM - Carrick: DLP (d)

LCM - Scholes: DLP (s)

LW - Giggs: WM (s) - sit narrow

AMR - Ronaldo: IF (a) - roam from position

RCF - Tevez: DLF (s) 

LCF - Rooney: CF (s)

 

The key to getting this working is the individual players’ attributes and PPMs. Evra would get forward a lot, Giggs would play risky passes, Scholes and Carrick dictated tempo whilst Scholes would also switch the play to the flanks, Rooney and Tevez would both drop deep and had high work rate, Ronaldo shoot more often and had incredible physical AND technical attributes. You can’t plug any players in and make it work like that United side.

Mentality is tricky, so I’d sit in the middle and say standard. I also agree with those that say it was a more structured shape.

 

The secondary shape more often used in Europe would be a 4-1-4-1 with a pair of hard working CMs, two from Anderson, Hargreaves and Fletcher (playing as CM (s) or BWM (s) in front of a DLP (d), with two WM (s and a) wide and a CF (s) up front.  The striker would usually be Rooney or Ronaldo, and they would interpret the CF role very differently.

park ji sung a DW (S). rooney/ronaldo in the CF role would be a DLF (S) on roam from position and move into channels, they would drop deep and cause havoc, bringing others into play.

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On 1/13/2018 at 14:13, blehq12 said:

That's more for the CL final, not the average shape for the entire system.

No, that's the sides they played on every time they played together that season, and the season after.

 

Here's the midfield for the match vs Barcelona for example. Carrick right, Scholes left.

2008-04-29+UCL+Man+Utd+v+Barcelona+Exten

And here's a shot of the defence in action, Ferdinand on the right, Vidic on the left.

zu8LLQw.jpg?1

Edited by mjp1
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5 hours ago, howard moon said:

So a CF (s) then?!?

A CF (S) would do. Ronaldo/Rooney would drop deep in the 4-5-1/4-3-3 formation, but not to deep as a DLF (S) or one who would drag players out of position like a F9 (S).

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4 hours ago, goqs06 said:

A CF (S) would do. Ronaldo/Rooney would drop deep in the 4-5-1/4-3-3 formation, but not to deep as a DLF (S) or one who would drag players out of position like a F9 (S).

That would depend on the PPMs and the attributes (especially off the ball). Rooney would have the ‘comes deep’ PPM, and both would have high off the ball attributes, so coupled with a support duty and the high creative freedom the role provides, would drop into spaces 

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On 1/16/2018 at 02:56, mjp1 said:

No, that's the sides they played on every time they played together that season, and the season after.

 

Here's the midfield for the match vs Barcelona for example. Carrick right, Scholes left.

2008-04-29+UCL+Man+Utd+v+Barcelona+Exten

And here's a shot of the defence in action, Ferdinand on the right, Vidic on the left.

zu8LLQw.jpg?1

What if Carrick played with Anderson? Carrick would still be on the right, correct?

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1 hour ago, goqs06 said:

What if Carrick played with Anderson? Carrick would still be on the right, correct?

Yep. Especially as Anderson was left-footed. 

And just to confirm what others have said: Ferdinand ALWAYS played on the right, Vidic on the left. If Brown or Pique played at CB, they would slot in the place of whoever they were replacing. 

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2 hours ago, goqs06 said:

What if Carrick played with Anderson? Carrick would still be on the right, correct?

As has been said, even more so because of Anderson being left footed. I can't remember if they switched when Hargreaves played alongside Carrick, but don't know if that ever happened anyway. 

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On 14/01/2018 at 04:18, howard moon said:

 Mentality is tricky, so I’d sit in the middle and say standard. I also agree with those that say it was a more structured shape.

 

The secondary shape more often used in Europe would be a 4-1-4-1 with a pair of hard working CMs, two from Anderson, Hargreaves and Fletcher (playing as CM (s) or BWM (s) in front of a DLP (d), with two WM (s and a) wide and a CF (s) up front.  The striker would usually be Rooney or Ronaldo, and they would interpret the CF role very differently.

I’d agree with structure but Ferguson always emphasise on counter attacks and controlling the game so counter/control for me.

The midfield 3 are spot on, but the roles vary for the wingers. When Rooney played on the wing it was a WM (a) who would cut in at times. I’ll be experimenting him as a IW (a). Park Ji Sung was defo a DW (s)

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12 hours ago, simonbyrneno.4 said:

Going a different route to what has been suggested in this thread already or something completely new?

I'll be incorporating elements of @goqs06 @felley @sherifdinn_ @denen123 @mjp1 and adding some ideas of my own. I watched the 07/08 season, the first time I seriously followed football. I'll be watching some old videos to help refresh myself on how they played.

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1 hour ago, blehq12 said:

Found this video today, which is done by @Kyanite. I agree with it mostly but I found the Counter-Fluid system he listed with a few flaws.

I'm not sure he actually remembers watching Man Utd that season, he's gotten a fair bit wrong. Seems like he's copied off the Zonal Marking post and made the same mistakes.

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23 minutes ago, mjp1 said:

I'm not sure he actually remembers watching Man Utd that season, he's gotten a fair bit wrong. Seems like he's copied off the Zonal Marking post and made the same mistakes.

Indeed, I'll be completing my tactic soon once I'm done with my research.

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9 minutes ago, blehq12 said:

Indeed, I'll be completing my tactic soon once I'm done with my research.

He's totally mistaken Hargreaves' role in that formation too. He stayed wide to deal with the threat of Ashley Cole, not to tuck in and contest the midfield battle, which we specifically avoided.

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46 minutes ago, mjp1 said:

Another video where they've gotten Carrick/Scholes and Vidic/Evra on the wrong sides!

Lol I think you’re right they are all wrongly based on the 2008 CL Final! 🤪

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42 minutes ago, goqs06 said:

Lol I think you’re right they are all wrongly based on the 2008 CL Final! 🤪

It's definitely lazy. The Champions League final footage is so easy to find and it clearly shows which way they played, it's little things like these that make me skeptical of other tactics videos for teams I know less about.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/24/2018 at 21:13, blehq12 said:

I'll be doing a tactic on this in a month or so @goqs06 @mjp1 @howard moon can't wait to see how it'll go!!!!!

 

On 1/25/2018 at 06:39, simonbyrneno.4 said:

Going a different route to what has been suggested in this thread already or something completely new?

 

On 1/25/2018 at 19:40, blehq12 said:

I'll be incorporating elements of @goqs06 @felley @sherifdinn_ @denen123 @mjp1 and adding some ideas of my own. I watched the 07/08 season, the first time I seriously followed football. I'll be watching some old videos to help refresh myself on how they played.

As promised, I'll be uploading my iteration of the tactic in about 10 min.

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11 minutes ago, blehq12 said:

As promised, I'll be uploading my iteration of the tactic in about 10 min.

Capture.thumb.PNG.9013af553a1afb56220117952f08d477.PNG

PIs:

FB: hold position

CM: more direct passes, more risky passes, shoot more often, move into channels

WM: Stay wider

IF: Sit narrower, roam from position

DLF: move into channels, roam from position

 

I've based in on my research from here:

and

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIY0e4dokyku_xObQ7LjrRQ/videos

Edited by blehq12
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23 hours ago, blehq12 said:

Capture.thumb.PNG.9013af553a1afb56220117952f08d477.PNG

PIs:

FB: hold position

CM: more direct passes, more risky passes, shoot more often, move into channels

WM: Stay wider

IF: Sit narrower, roam from position

DLF: move into channels, roam from position

 

I've based in on my research from here:

and

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIY0e4dokyku_xObQ7LjrRQ/videos

Looks good 👀, you should have a run with this tactic and start trying it out.

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On 11/02/2018 at 11:58, blehq12 said:

Capture.thumb.PNG.9013af553a1afb56220117952f08d477.PNG

PIs:

FB: hold position

CM: more direct passes, more risky passes, shoot more often, move into channels

WM: Stay wider

IF: Sit narrower, roam from position

DLF: move into channels, roam from position

 

I've based in on my research from here:

and

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIY0e4dokyku_xObQ7LjrRQ/videos

Just dropping in to offer my 2 cents, had some issues with my account that I can't get fixed :mad: I really like the look of this one. One suggestion, you might want to remove 'moves into channels' for the cm and have an instruction for the WM to drift inside or sit narrower to create the overload in central midfield. At least when Giggs played there over Nani that is what happened. 

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1 hour ago, mikejess92 said:

Just dropping in to offer my 2 cents, had some issues with my account that I can't get fixed :mad: I really like the look of this one. One suggestion, you might want to remove 'moves into channels' for the cm and have an instruction for the WM to drift inside or sit narrower to create the overload in central midfield. At least when Giggs played there over Nani that is what happened. 

@mikejess92 thats how Giggs played as a WM on the left, and Hargreaves on the right, they would cut inside quite often.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 07/01/2018 at 20:10, themadsheep2001 said:

It doesn't matter:

1) they played different shapes within the style

2) the front trio swapped positions

3) different players played throughout out the the 3 years

Anyway, really like the OPs idea. Been playing around with this for a couple of years. My current shape is within the classic lopsided 4-1-4-1. Will post it up later. 

Been reading through this thread again as there are some interesting ideas, and I’ve wanted to make something modelled on this United side in FM for a while now. 

Did you ever post your tactics? I’m really interested in your interpretation, especially after reading your contributions in the big tactics thread in GD, as you mention Ferguson’s ‘style/philosophy’ a few times. @themadsheep2001

Edited by howard moon
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On 04/03/2018 at 11:08, howard moon said:

Been reading through this thread again as there are some interesting ideas, and I’ve wanted to make something modelled on this United side in FM for a while now. 

Did you ever post your tactics? I’m really interested in your interpretation, especially after reading your contributions in the big tactics thread in GD, as you mention Ferguson’s ‘style/philosophy’ a few times. @themadsheep2001

No I've been playing a lot of Elite Dangerous recently. But I'll try and play a few games on Saturday. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/16/2018 at 02:41, SammyRai said:

Anyone got any updates or having success??

 

@SammyRai here are some of the results, I simmed with man utd for the 17/18 season

image.thumb.png.a2e1fcae3dddf38e5380d710c3a64031.png

Edited by goqs06
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On 11/02/2018 at 11:58, blehq12 said:

Capture.thumb.PNG.9013af553a1afb56220117952f08d477.PNG

PIs:

FB: hold position

CM: more direct passes, more risky passes, shoot more often, move into channels

WM: Stay wider

IF: Sit narrower, roam from position

DLF: move into channels, roam from position

 

I've based in on my research from here:

and

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIY0e4dokyku_xObQ7LjrRQ/videos

Thanks for sharing ! Though I'm not a MU supporter, 2006-2009 Man.United played the most beautiful football I've ever seen (Barça's tiki-taka was great too but I prefer MU's style) and I'm also trying to reproduce it in FM.

I think it does make sense to put Ronaldo higher up the pitch. He still played as a classical winger in 2006-2007 but 2007-2008 was his first season as a goal scoring machine, so the Inside Forward (Attack) role, most of the time on the right, probably makes the most sense. The left-winger was generally Giggs or Nani, though Ronaldo had a free role and frequently switched positions with the left-winger as well as the 2 forwards, which is difficult to reproduce in FM. And the 2 forwards, Rooney and Tevez, had a lot of defensive responsibilities in order to cover up Ronaldo. So Rooney as a Shadow Striker - Attack (AMCL) and Tevez as a Defensive Forward - Support (STCR) would be my take.

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On 06/03/2018 at 11:49, themadsheep2001 said:

No I've been playing a lot of Elite Dangerous recently. But I'll try and play a few games on Saturday. 

07 commander. But some us aren't getting any younger so...

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14 minutes ago, warlock said:

07 commander. But some us aren't getting any younger so...

I'm only just into the season. I play on comprehensive so I'm not quick! Standby for an update tomorrow evening. 

What I'm looking at Is the defensive position of the DM. Need him to patrol in front of the back 4 without sitting too deep or getting sucked in. 

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On 23/03/2018 at 11:21, Extremo said:

Thanks for sharing ! Though I'm not a MU supporter, 2006-2009 Man.United played the most beautiful football I've ever seen (Barça's tiki-taka was great too but I prefer MU's style) and I'm also trying to reproduce it in FM.

I think it does make sense to put Ronaldo higher up the pitch. He still played as a classical winger in 2006-2007 but 2007-2008 was his first season as a goal scoring machine, so the Inside Forward (Attack) role, most of the time on the right, probably makes the most sense. The left-winger was generally Giggs or Nani, though Ronaldo had a free role and frequently switched positions with the left-winger as well as the 2 forwards, which is difficult to reproduce in FM. And the 2 forwards, Rooney and Tevez, had a lot of defensive responsibilities in order to cover up Ronaldo. So Rooney as a Shadow Striker - Attack (AMCL) and Tevez as a Defensive Forward - Support (STCR) would be my take.

I've given my front three roaming. The forward is a CF support with moves into channels. 

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