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Is Harry Kane represented correctly in the game?

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On 12/28/2017 at 16:57, tacticsdude said:

What makes Kane special is his style of play, and particularly so under the Spurs style. I've only watched him play a couple times in the CL, and already it is clear to see that guy is top talent- there's no denying he's going to be scoring goals. There is no way his development will "stifle", he's already there. The only way to stifle him is to sell him in an unfortunate scenario to a club that will bench him or try to play him on the wing or some other weird stuff (say Mourinho buys him on a whim).

But, if in your FM save he remains at Spurrs and plays under Pochettino, Kane is going to be dominating defenses for a long time to come.

If Pochettino is still the manager, then IMO there's something off with the engine.

Yes Poch is still the manager.

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On 12/29/2017 at 06:18, s1111 said:

It's 177, so he has 9 points to grow into which is reasonable for a 24 year old.

There are only 5 players at the start of the game with more than 179 CA, two of the best players of all time, one of the best goalkeepers of all time, the most expensive player of all time (and Luis Suarez). I've always liked him and knew after that first 20 goal season that he was going be good but Kane is not on that level.

175 in my save, not sure why

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A few people here were saying that it is about tactics. If you were managing Spurs in FM, how would you set up tactics to get the most out of Kane?

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On 12/28/2017 at 10:57, Smurf said:

I know this won't go down well but... He has never won a trophy - not the league or anything else. He is basically open to develop one of two ways - a great player or an average player. It's unknown if he will continue his scoring streaks IRL.

Is he represented accurately in the game - I think so. 

Spurs are not a top club in the World of football, so his development maybe stiffled at a club with a low rep in both the game and IRL.

I cannot agree with this, he has been scoring A LOT of goals in the past 3 seasons. To say that he needs to win a league or something is not entirely true, Take Matt Le Tissier, technically one of the greatest to play in the premier league and im sure he had a decent CA and PA. I could name many more too. He also played for Southampton, and lets be honest they didnt stifle his indvidual development. On that subject im a liverpool fan and i have heard people class Liverpool as not a big club for many many years.. but it didnt stifle Gerrards, or Coutinhos development did it?

 

As for unknown if he will continue his scoring streak, people have been saying that since his breakthrough season and he just gets better. However players who have been in a similar situations ie scoring runs early in development still get decent potential abilities.

 

BUT onto his CA/PA ingame, i think its where it needs to be, and to say his chart is similar to Lukaku is moot as interms of finishing they ARE similar both are quick strong and can finish. I would say Kane has a better touch and more versatility and higher determination, you only have to look at his progress IRL for proof. I think maybe he is having a bad season in your game down to tactics? 

 

 

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On 1/2/2018 at 09:39, Atarin said:

 

Where are you getting this rubbish from?

Why is Kane going to be playing Europa League? Spurs may be sat in 6th currently but they have two games in hand on Liverpool in 4th. Win both of those (against lowly Swansea & West Ham) and Spurs will be in 5th and just 1 point behind Liverpool with the majority of the second half of the season to go (which as the last few seasons has proved is when Spurs really start to motor).

Kane's Englishness has got nothing to do with it. Anyone that had scored the amount of goals he has over the last three seasons, with the amount of hatricks.etc in the most competitive and quality packed league in European football would be described as an incredible striker. 

As for Englishmen playing abroad, that's a product of the financial rewards available in England. This is where the big money is. Even useless players get mega bucks here. Why would a Harry Kane go to Spain, other than for Madrid or Barca? Where would he get the exposure, sponsorships, media attention and competition that he gets here? he's not going to go to Italy is he? Terrible league. He's not going to France. He's not going to Portugal. He's not going to go to Germany for anyone other than Bayern who probably couldn't afford him and wouldn't pay it if they could. Spurs will never sell Kane to a rival in England. They no longer have to.

England players haven't always stayed in England. I remember the 1990 England squad where you had Gary Stevens, Terry Butcher, Chris Woods and Trevor Steven all playing for Rangers (who were a big deal in Europe at the time). Chris Waddle playing for Merseilles and Gary Lineker having just signed for Spurs from Barca.

Then you had the 1996 Euro squad with Paul Ince at Inter, Gazza who had signed for Rangers after a spell with Lazio, David Platt who had recently signed for Arsenal from Sampdoria, Steve McManaman was a couple of years away from leaving Liverpool for Real. Les Ferdinand had a spell in Turkey.

The point is that neither side won anything. Yes both reached semi-finals and only narrowly went out to Germany both times on penalties, but by your black and white criteria they were still a bunch of also rans.

As someone else mention English youngsters are increasingly leaving home and going abroad with Germany a particular destination. German clubs recognise the quality we're producing whilst also recognising that because of the money in the league and the ability to buy ready made players, our own youngsters are not being given opportunities.

 

So, in a nutshell. You're wrong on just about all of what you said.

Great post, but that bold bit was laughable. As i say im a Liverpool fan but no way is the Prem packed with the most talent.

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On 12/29/2017 at 09:09, RBKalle said:

francesco-totti-roma-lazio-serie-a-04302

Not as extreme as Smurf's take on Kane, but Totti's career has often (and not without merit) been criticized for his lack of "courage" in terms of choices.

But... still one of the greatest players of all time.

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1 hour ago, craigd84 said:

Great post, but that bold bit was laughable. As i say im a Liverpool fan but no way is the Prem packed with the most talent.

I mean in terms of depth.  Lower Prem sides and upper Championship sides attract players that their Italian, German and Spanish equivalents couldn't.

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But when i watch football in the countries you speak of i will say the technical and tactical side of the game is better. I was watching bologna against Roma two years ago and the Bologna defence could all control a ball under pressure and pass very very well.

Some of the lower prem teams cannot.  

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That's true to an extent but only an extent. There is certainly a deficit of technique amongst British born players but the foreign players who have moved over are far more technically sound and they make up a very large proportion of the players playing in the Premier League compared to other top European leagues. The money available to Premier League and top Championship sides ensures that they can buy players from the top league in a way that Bologna, say, cannot. Take a team like Brighton, just promoted to the Premier League. They'll have a deeper pool of quality players than the comparable side in Italy, Spain or Germany. There is very good quality to be found in Italy, Spain and Germany but the depth isn't there. That is my point.

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I have no comment on Kane, but it saddens me that Le Tissier was done such a disservice earlier in this thread, and that his England career was so brief. Just too many other great English strikers (Sheringham, Shearer, Fowler, Owen) around at the time.

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On 28.12.2017 at 15:19, Rashidi said:

When people say a player should be doing better, he will if he is in the right system surrounded by players playing the right roles. In my save game Harry Kane is blistering the English premier league and leading the goal scoring charts, and has the highest average rating in the league. So maybe this AI got the mix right. 

Now just because his attributes are good, that does not mean he should be scoring a lot of goals. It just means that he could score a lot if he was managed correctly. Ultimately we should not judge a player's potential performance  simply by his attributes. To do so would be very short-sighted.


Initially this thread was about research. But in terms of performance this definitely and then some. On my very first Bundesliga simulations with FM 18 the AI got Lewandowski scoring as little as 3 goals from 15 matches, and that wasn't due to a lack of trying (averaging over 3 shots per match). So the question then is the nature of those shots really, and how the AI actually utilizes space / the players, too.

Performance has two solutions:


- Coding better AI. Will have the knock-on of, well, AI opponents being a little brighter.
- Shifting the balance in a direction where (again) simply fielding the player he may tore defenses a new one at 20 dribbles per match etc -- to an extent no matter how ****** the tactics / crying for help the player eventually may be.
- realistically, this needs a balance either way. Tactics help to stage a few upsets, and they can contribute their bits to overperformance. What they don't do outside of horrible/badly thought out stuff is (or encouraging play completely unsuited to the players at hand) is making sides drastically overperforming / underperforming time and time again all themselves.

Research has .... the research guys.

 

Edited by Svenc

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Guest El Payaso

IMO too many strikers seem to be close to goal per game with this latest update. Kane being one of them, Manchester United having both Ibra and Lukaku in same pace, Morata, Aguero, Firmino, Benteke, Chicharito and Defoe. Not all of them are scoring goal per game but basically all of them scoring more than in real life. Performing for a striker has been made super easy in my opinion while in real life finding a regular goalscorer is one of the toughest tasks in football. 

In terms of CA and PA I would say that Kane is about right. PA of course is always tough one as no one knows how good he will be. But with Kane he has clear limitations that make for example Suarez in his prime a better player than Kane is. Nowadays Kane is better though in my opinion. But for example in the Premier league the best player in the league last two seasons, Kante, has lower ability than Kane. And in terms of ME performances he is even more under rated. 

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I think some people also need to check their facts and acknowledge football did exist before the 21st century.

Tottenham are and always have been a big club, coming from a Liverpool fan. 

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