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2feet

stuck in relegation mire cant win except lucky wins

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at a loss.

if i set up with standard, they still create shots seemingly at will and with ease. i try to be more attacking, they repel with ease, and then their straight forward basic passes to their forwards seems to flumox my defenders and they get great shots on goal. i am playing solid formations, yet they seem anything but solid and riddled with holes.

if i go to counter, i create even less whilst their shots on goals seems barely affected.

computer is doing its best to help (having their players miss sitters, getting a man sent off in the 70th minute, etc) but i still cant create chances, at best i pull back to make it a draw in the latter stages.

its bizarre, and seemingly endless. i keep changing my formation from game to game because nothing works, not even the asst managers suggestion of 4-2-3-1. i have gone back to very generic setups because making team instructions only seemed to make things worse. but even the generic setups dont work.

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Tactics can work with only a few attack duties, but with only one attack duty who is really going to be scoring here?

You have a DLF who will drop a bit deeper and run at the other team with an attack duty, but who else is going to make the threatening runs? 2 wingers on support are going to be putting crosses in the box... to who? your striker is dropping deep so who will they aim the crosses at?

Also with the automatic duty those players will have something similar to the defend duty since you have "counter" mentality. Therefore when you do get the ball there will be virtually nothing to link your midfield to attack.

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So I should change the wingers to attackers? Should I then change the mentality to Control?

And if I do that, wont i keep conceeding goals?

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Also, if I change to control, in order to accommodate the fact I will have 3 attacking players, then how does that work with a system thats about direct balls out wide to fast wingers?

Control is supposed to be for slow possession based systems.

If I select standard, then there are too many attackers for that mentality.

So am I forced into selecting the attacking style? But if I do that then im going to carry on conceeding goals.

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Best players are AMR with fast pace and well balanced mentals, STR target man, CBs are good but very slow (9s for pace), CMs are OK, DM is good as BWM.

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You could probably get a lot out of reading some of the tactics guides in the Please Read sticky at the top of the board.

However, you might want to ask yourself a couple of basic questions to start with:

  • What are the strengths of your squad?;
  • How do you want to play? (Stylistically);

From there you should be able to build a base tactic to suit your players. At the minute, changing system every game probably isn't doing much good for you.

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last year i had moderate success, used a 442 diamond, passing game. Learnt how to manage it when you lose, how to tease the team out of a bad run and encourage.

but yes, ive read a few tactics guides and advice from respected players like rashidi.

im probably a moderate player, but cant seem to get this style of football going. i suppose direct wing attacking football is the style to play with this team.

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36 minutes ago, 2feet said:

Best players are AMR with fast pace and well balanced mentals, STR target man, CBs are good but very slow (9s for pace), CMs are OK, DM is good as BWM.

You could play a 4-1-4-1 Counter system. Drop the AMR/AML down to the midfield winger slots, and bring the AM down to the DM slot. Sounds like it might suit your players and may keep you in more games. You can't really play a real Counter system with a 4-2-3-1, as you have too many players in advanced positions.

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You are predicted to finish 19th according to the Media Prediction, you're not far off in April. You lost against the likes of Derby County (Predicted 6th place), Sunderland (Predicted 7th place) and Leeds (Predicted 10th place).  Your record in those 20 games is 2-10-8, with a few more wins you are preforming how you are supposed to preforming with Bristol City. 

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Start of the season I was predicted mid table. Perhaps media prediction was adjusted during the season after so many losses?

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I step in just to state a couple of facts. No advice given, just facts.

- Auto duties+counter mentality=support duties. You have 2 cm(su). No holding midfielder.

- Wingers run wide and cross. AM(su) won't make a lot of forward runs due to support duty. DFL, even on attack duty, is a withdrawn striker. Your wingers are crossing to nobody.

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But the adviders say you should have 0-1 Attackers in a Countrer system. They say to flood the team with support minded players.

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As mentioned above, you won't (or highly unlikely) make a successful counter attacking team using a 4231 as too many players in advanced positions. 

Centre mids on auto are essentially a support function and so will both vacate the midfield to support attacks. Unless you have a PI on them which says to hold position, who is protecting the now 2 exposed centre backs and winning back possession in midfield?

If your centre backs have limited pace then maybe it would be a good idea to have TI defend deeper which suits the counter mentality.

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Look at your player selection.

You want players with high determination, followed by work rate & team work to be selected over other attributes.

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Look at your formation and where you give up space between your defence and midfield.  Then think about your mentality and how it makes you play deeper.  Then look at your roles+duties and how you don't really pressure high.  What does that add up to?  Opponents have time to play into that space.

I think you'd be better off dropping your CM's to DM, maybe even drop the whole midfield (2x DM, CM, MR + ML).  Get players deeper to shield those slow CBs so all they have to do is deal with crosses/high balls.  Get defensively solid and then from that platform try and develop your attack.  I don't know what your attackers are good at, but I would prefer more variety than wingers on both flanks, especially with a lone forward.

Stay on Feet is a bit passive, I'd use this selectively such as when the ref is card happy or games are won and you want to lower the intensity.

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On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 15:43, 2feet said:

Also, if I change to control, in order to accommodate the fact I will have 3 attacking players, then how does that work with a system thats about direct balls out wide to fast wingers?

Control is supposed to be for slow possession based systems.

If I select standard, then there are too many attackers for that mentality.

So am I forced into selecting the attacking style? But if I do that then im going to carry on conceeding goals.

This is completely wrong, control isn't for slow possession based systems at all. I don't know where you got that idea from considering that if you look in game putting on the Control mentality increases tempo, closing down, pushes up the d-line and increases width, none of which help a team to retain possession. 

I think you also need to consider that the formation you select is how you will defend. Given the top heavy nature of the 4-2-3-1 Wide you should be aiming to defend from the front by pressing high. As it stands you are just left with 2 central defenders and maybe 2 full backs (depending on how much they moved forward when your team had the ball) that are defending with the other 8 outfield players simply being passengers. I'd also echo what @summatsupeer said in that you need more variety in the way that you attack.  

I'd try to stay away from automatic duties altogether so you know exactly who is doing what on the pitch at all times.

If you want to play a 4-2-3-1 then you automatically need to adopt a more aggressive approach. You also need a defend duty central midfielder or you'll just get cut through easily.

On ‎12‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 13:57, 2feet said:

But the advisers say you should have 0-1 Attackers in a Counter system. They say to flood the team with support minded players.

That could make sense if you are playing a formation which is suited towards that mentality but a 4-2-3-1 Wide isn't. I think your case isn't helped by constantly changing your tactic and mentality and hoping for better. Also don't link the name of the mentality with the style of play. Counter mentality =/= Counter attacking, Control mentality =/= Possession football. The triggering of counter attacks happens on any mentality and is a function of how the opposition plays. On the plus side I can see you easily getting out of this relegation fight (provided you're managing properly in other departments, morale management etc.) as now teams will attack you more (given your league position) and think you're weak.

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Thanks for all the advice here, its very helpful.

On the idea of Control mentality = slow football, I think in the description it says with this mentality the team aims to 'patiently probe the final third to find space as and when it opens up'. So I read that as being slow, but when I looked again after reading this, I noticed the tempo increases when you select it, so thats good to learn.

I survived the season, just, and now have a much better squad, so I may stick with 4231because maybe now the attack capabililty might force defenders to be more conservative.

 

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24 minutes ago, 2feet said:

Thanks for all the advice here, its very helpful.

On the idea of Control mentality = slow football, I think in the description it says with this mentality the team aims to 'patiently probe the final third to find space as and when it opens up'. So I read that as being slow, but when I looked again after reading this, I noticed the tempo increases when you select it, so thats good to learn.

I survived the season, just, and now have a much better squad, so I may stick with 4231because maybe now the attack capabililty might force defenders to be more conservative.

 

The "patiently probe the final third to find space as and when it opens up" is done by deeper players such as CB having shorter passing range compared to say Counter.  Role+duty can modify the mentalities passing patterns, ie a DCB will be more direct, meaning more direct from what the mentality sets that players passing range as.  If the deeper players have shorter passing they'll play safer passes to players near them rather than trying to play a more direct pass to move the ball over greater distance quicker.

As you've now seen, the tempo but also risky taking (mentality) is higher, unless you modify it to become a slower possession style.

Try and make sure your formation, roles, duties and instructions all fit together with how you want to play.  The formation shows you where your going to give up space to the opposition, are your players around those areas good at defending in space?  If not then I hope your attack is good because you'll likely have some shoot outs! :lol:  Then consider your roles+duties and how far from there defensive position they are told to go, does that open you up for counter attacks?  Is another player told to stay in a position to cover and is good at that job?

Edited by summatsupeer

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