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Novem9

FM Stagnation, questions to responsible persons

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Alot of valid points raised.. This is why I have begun skipping editions as the price just not justify what's found in game. 

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I wouldn't buy it if I actually had to pay £30+ or whatever on earth they charge MSRP. There tends to be a fire sale before the new instalment launches (e.g FM17 was £7 in August). If you're a frugal master you could wait for that sort of price and only buy every two or three years and get the benefit of low price and more appreciable changes. That's what I'd do if I had more willpower. :D

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2 часа назад, wateronglass сказал:

I wouldn't buy it if I actually had to pay £30+ or whatever on earth they charge MSRP. There tends to be a fire sale before the new instalment launches (e.g FM17 was £7 in August). If you're a frugal master you could wait for that sort of price and only buy every two or three years and get the benefit of low price and more appreciable changes. That's what I'd do if I had more willpower. :D

Big price is not a problem in general. I can't understand politic of SEGA/SI.

For example I pay for PS4 games. More expensive that PC, but I get a lot of joy and comfort.
So I ready to pay for FM, if FM will be progress. I want to play in good manager, that's all

 

6 часов назад, Urotsukidoji сказал:

I totally agree with the OP. Thing is I'm addicted and will be buying 2019.

Yeah so all dealers work like this xD

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Imagine paying £35 for a game you get hundreds of hours of gameplay out of every year. 

Dreadful, eh?

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I also can't wait for certain areas kicking into the next gear.

What I'm not going to do is making assumptions, demanding boycott. Nor liking a post teasing that annoying "AI cheating chestnut", when it is obvious for anybody with half a brain and eyes to see that it perhaps should -- maybe it may even be competitive then! Where the money goes should be easy. Surely the difference between sales and profits is understood, no less with a studio attached to a big publisher running on annual contracts, rather than being independent. It's a business with close to 100 full-time employees behind.

Edited by Svenc

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I can live with mostly everything that they added/broken/not added to FM this year... but the performance is APPALLING. APPALLING! I haven't been able to play beyond the third season because the game slows down to such an extent that it becomes unplayabale with about 10 leagues and 95000 players. For the record, I have an i7 7700K and 16 GB RAM and had none of these issues with FM 17.

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For me the price is irrelevant. My issue is how this year's game has gone backwards from such a solid base of FM17. The shambles of a UI cannot and should not be forgiven. Scouting is a massive pain, the match experience is worse off because of the camera decision, and the stadiums / crowds are the biggest retrograde step I've seen in this franchise.

However - I'm still really enjoying the game and starting to get to grips with the nuances of this ME after getting my arse kicked at release. Dynamics has actually been well implemented (!) and the medical centre is truly excellent.

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10 минут назад, Dagenham_Dave сказал:

Imagine paying £35 for a game you get hundreds of hours of gameplay out of every year. 

Dreadful, eh?

This conclusion is so primitive that Wenger ready to sign this in CB zone 

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1 минуту назад, rdbayly сказал:

For me the price is irrelevant. My issue is how this year's game has gone backwards from such a solid base of FM17. The shambles of a UI cannot and should not be forgiven. Scouting is a massive pain, the match experience is worse off because of the camera decision, and the stadiums / crowds are the biggest retrograde step I've seen in this franchise.

However - I'm still really enjoying the game and starting to get to grips with the nuances of this ME after getting my arse kicked at release. Dynamics has actually been well implemented (!) and the medical centre is truly excellent.

Question in not a price in general! There about developers are relaxed and just take a money for the same product.

Dynamcis, med centre, few new secondary-for-gameplay-things... Are not these too little for one calendar year? 

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2 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Question in not a price in general! There about developers are relaxed and just take a money for the same product.

Dynamcis, med centre, few new secondary-for-gameplay-things... Are not these too little for one calendar year? 

I've been extremely critical of the game in almost all of my posts. The community is harsh on the game because it is loved. Those more in the know than I have speculated that what has been added is 'under the hood' and is paving the way for major developments over the coming years (graphics, TC / ME overhaul). 

There are much bigger sinners in the gaming industry when it comes to stagnated 12 month development cycles - Look at E.A and the Call of Duty developers. 

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31 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Question in not a price in general! There about developers are relaxed and just take a money for the same product.

Dynamcis, med centre, few new secondary-for-gameplay-things... Are not these too little for one calendar year? 

I don't know if this even warrant a response, but these kinds of statements will surely get this thread locked. Since you obviously have no idea how software development works and exactly zero knowledge of how SI uses their hours I would advise you to not go there. You will only make a fool of yourself for all too see. If you are unhappy with the progress the game have had the last year, then stop buying it.

I see major improvements in the ME, Dynamics and several other aspects. I also see further need for change and things that could be even better, but for that to happen you should suggest what you feel are missing in the correct subforum. Many users have had good suggestions implemented into the game already. I have seen a lot of constructive criticism for both users and mods be taken in here, but tinfoil theories and moronic statements at the quoted one here is really uncalled for and will be disregarded.

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54 minutes ago, grasu said:

I can live with mostly everything that they added/broken/not added to FM this year... but the performance is APPALLING. APPALLING! I haven't been able to play beyond the third season because the game slows down to such an extent that it becomes unplayabale with about 10 leagues and 95000 players. For the record, I have an i7 7700K and 16 GB RAM and had none of these issues with FM 17.

Could be something else then.
I have a worse computer than you with all leagues loaded and 324k players. I'm around season 5, or thereabouts, and i haven't noticed any significant slowdown compared to when i started the save.

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25 минут назад, XaW сказал:

I don't know if this even warrant a response, but these kinds of statements will surely get this thread locked. Since you obviously have no idea how software development works and exactly zero knowledge of how SI uses their hours I would advise you to not go there. You will only make a fool of yourself for all too see. If you are unhappy with the progress the game have had the last year, then stop buying it.

I see major improvements in the ME, Dynamics and several other aspects. I also see further need for change and things that could be even better, but for that to happen you should suggest what you feel are missing in the correct subforum. Many users have had good suggestions implemented into the game already. I have seen a lot of constructive criticism for both users and mods be taken in here, but tinfoil theories and moronic statements at the quoted one here is really uncalled for and will be disregarded.

The answer of offended child lol

... or representative of the sect :D 

A lot of requests for repair press-confs is good example of feedback&work with wishlist

55 минут назад, rdbayly сказал:

There are much bigger sinners in the gaming industry when it comes to stagnated 12 month development cycles - Look at E.A and the Call of Duty developers. 

I never encourage politics like 'look at other, they even worse us!'. This is unproductive

FIFA is horrible, concerning CoD - another genre another rules. Btw I dont play both. As I told - I not indifferent in FM case and this topic little part of constructive tasks, not hollywar or something destructive else.

Edited by Novem9

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Well, unfortunatelly not all people able to understand meaning of read text, I will clarify.

This list of questions is rhetorical. This means that I dont wait for answers. And I dont blame SI like 'you are bad and lazy'. But this topic is list of vital problems. Problems which ignored for unnecessary things like 'FM-twitter'.
For all who say something like 'dont want - dont play' I answer 'dont want - dont read' :D 

There are no analogues of FM, and SEGA or someone else dont care about quality of product. They are pursuit for profit and dont give human resources/bufgets for big steps.
Digressing of FM case, FIFA create new engine only then PES became a real competitor. Then PES started to be a weak, FIFA less progress too. 

Competition - the engine of progress

Unfortunatelly for us FM is not rival. I dont enforce ignore FM19. Buy if you want. I just outlined perspective. Until we all buy FM regardless of quality , the things will remain the same

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34 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

The answer of offended child lol

... or representative of the sect :D 

Well, if it isn't the one looking in a mirror... I gave you a response to tell you that your way of expressing yourself where will not be taken into account and suggested to change your tone to a more constructive one. If that is childish behavour then you have meet very behaved children indeed. Replies and threads like this is why the developers stopped being here and giving the answers you are looking for.

Honestly, the entitlement shown here is off the charts. "I don't like this and this and you are lazy and my dad is stronger than yours".

Please, if your have concerns or issues with the game produce them in a constructive manner and you might be surprised too see your opinions might be taken into account. If you keep to your ways, I expect your stay here to be on the shorter side. I'll take my leave of this subject now, I think it has run it's course.

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@Novem9

I have no idea where people get the idea that competition drives progress because that simply doesn't work in practice.

It can in fact hamper progress as risky ideas get shelved in favour of safer options.

Your OP falls down IMO on the first question because FM is not and has never been priced as a AAA title most of which are sold for £50+ on release.  Whilst the price has crept up in the last few years thats been alongside pre release discounts which means a lot of people get it for < £30 (If not on release, down the line in a sale).

As for the other questions:

2) A new ME gets released at regular intervals, historically this seems to be every 4-5 years and with the current one towards the end of its lifespan I believe a new one is in the works.  You also don't seem to understand the difference between ME & graphics and the amount of coding that is required for the ME.  Comparing it to other games which are heavily graphics focused is like comparing chalk & cheese.

3) The AI gets improved constantly, if you were a regular FM player down the years you should be able to recognise that.  Thats not to say its perfect, far from it but it generally improves as time goes on.

4) Improve press conferences......but no-one has any idea how to improve them.  Press conferences are part of a managers job IRL and therefore should be in the game but they aren't the most exciting thing IRL and therefore its unlikely they'll ever be exciting in FM.  If you have an idea on how to improve them share it, thats what the feature request forum is for.

5) FM15, 16 & 17 were all very playable out of the box on release, much more so than previous versions.  I'm not happy with 18 in its current state but others seem to be coping well enough.  Some bugs carry over from version to version but others get fixed while new ones appear.  All software has bugs, especially a one the size of FM.

6) FM has a help system, an assistant manager, you can delegate jobs, there are forums to ask questions on etc etc.  It would be impossible for any sort of tutorial to cover everything in FM and you are expected to discover & work things out for yourself. 

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i think the guide for new starters is a really good point, i created another thread whereby i would love if FM would implement a system where the AI assistant manager would take charge of the tactics so you start to understand what roles he uses, what tactic and why ect.... this would be amazing if fm would implement this.

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6 минут назад, Cougar2010 сказал:

2) A new ME gets released at regular intervals, historically this seems to be every 4-5 years and with the current one towards the end of its lifespan I believe a new one is in the works.  You also don't seem to understand the difference between ME & graphics and the amount of coding that is required for the ME.  Comparing it to other games which are heavily graphics focused is like comparing chalk & cheese.

FM10

Спойлер

football-manager-2010-20091026094925709.

FM18

Спойлер

maxresdefault.jpg

VR is created but in FM ball still cant jump

 

10 минут назад, Cougar2010 сказал:

4) Improve press conferences......but no-one has any idea how to improve them.  Press conferences are part of a managers job IRL and therefore should be in the game but they aren't the most exciting thing IRL and therefore its unlikely they'll ever be exciting in FM.  If you have an idea on how to improve them share it, thats what the feature request forum is for.

Anybody asking for help with this? Btw press-c just not working. For example ai manager has good relationship with player manager, but press-confs asking about some conflicts. Conflicts didnt happen! Almost everything questions like this. 

 

Honestly I tired to answer and don't see the reasons to stay there more time. I do what I want , if something will change - I will be happy. If no, so I tried at least.

bb

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2 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

FM10

  Reveal hidden contents

football-manager-2010-20091026094925709.

FM18

  Reveal hidden contents

maxresdefault.jpg

VR is created but in FM ball still cant jump

Again you have a massive misunderstanding of FM, the ME & graphics.

I can't remember exactly but FM12 or FM13 was the last new ME I believe.

 

2 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Anybody asking for help with this? Btw press-c just not working. For example ai manager has good relationship with player manager, but press-confs asking about some conflicts. Conflicts didnt happen! Almost everything questions like this. 

 

Honestly I tired to answer and don't see the reasons to stay there more time. I do what I want , if something will change - I will be happy. If no, so I tried at least.

bb

If you think something is wrong then its possibly a bug and should be reported in the bugs forum so SI can investigate and fix it.

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Don't bother @Cougar2010, he isn't interested in changes, he just wants attention and to complain.

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2 hours ago, XaW said:

I don't know if this even warrant a response, but these kinds of statements will surely get this thread locked. Since you obviously have no idea how software development works and exactly zero knowledge of how SI uses their hours I would advise you to not go there. You will only make a fool of yourself for all too see. If you are unhappy with the progress the game have had the last year, then stop buying it.

I see major improvements in the ME, Dynamics and several other aspects. I also see further need for change and things that could be even better, but for that to happen you should suggest what you feel are missing in the correct subforum. Many users have had good suggestions implemented into the game already. I have seen a lot of constructive criticism for both users and mods be taken in here, but tinfoil theories and moronic statements at the quoted one here is really uncalled for and will be disregarded.

the guy actually has a point as one of the mods said this is the same me thats been used for about 4 yrs so not sure what progress your saying you have seen ?

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3 minutes ago, jamessmith010101 said:

the guy actually has a point as one of the mods said this is the same me thats been used for about 4 yrs so not sure what progress your saying you have seen ?

And I haven't stated otherwise? The fact that is is the same ME does not mean they haven't touched it for 4 years. They just haven't rebuilt it from scratch. Not many companies do change the engine (be it graphics, physics, or otherwise) every release, but rather expand on it until it no longer is capable to be sustained, and by that time they have often been building the new one in parallel with the last few releases.

There are several things in the game that could be improved upon. I have suggested a couple of things and reported a lot of bugs, but to claim the game is a rebrand of the last? And in the tone of his posts, claiming SI are lazy and spouting tinfoil theories?

Many mod and others have come forward with genuine complaints and suggestions to help improve the game. But to demand answers and at the same time exclaim disparagingly statements and expect a reasonable response? Common courtesy and constructive criticism will get you much further.

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14 hours ago, Novem9 said:

With all due respect, I want to ask for developers & publisher list of questions below :


  1.  

...

I'm not looking for conflicts and create this topic just because this is the only available way to get the desired. 

All right then, lets get ready for a debate. Always nice to share differing views and opinions about a game we're all so passionate about. :)

 

3 hours ago, Novem9 said:

This conclusion is so primitive that Wenger ready to sign this in CB zone 

Oh wait...I mean, they had made a fair point really about value of the game over it's lifespan/hours played compared to initial up front price but okay...

1 hour ago, Novem9 said:

The answer of offended child lol

... or representative of the sect :D 

 

Right so if someone disagrees with your set of opinions it is because they are primitive, a child, or part of a sect (inflexible fanboys). But you obviously have none of these qualities - the understanding you've shown of development cycles, profits, pricing and the history of FM is on point, you've been reasonable and I can clearly see you are here for a real debate rather than to just shout your opinion over everyone else ... :rolleyes:

1 hour ago, Novem9 said:

Well, unfortunatelly not all people able to understand meaning of read text, I will clarify.

This list of questions is rhetorical. This means that I dont wait for answers. And I dont blame SI like 'you are bad and lazy'. But this topic is list of vital problems. Problems which ignored for unnecessary things like 'FM-twitter'.
For all who say something like 'dont want - dont play' I answer 'dont want - dont read' :D 

 

There we go. You just want to potificate about your personal immovable views on the state of the game. Which is a pity because if you were willing to actually debate and allow room for opinions and experiences other than your own you might have got some answers. Instead you asked a list of questions, didn't like the response and have redrawn the debate as 'Oh no one is actually meant to try to give me an answer/engage with this unless they agree'.

 

Looking forward to this car crash of a thread :thup:

Edited by Peljam
Messed up the quotes

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I was really hoping that someone from S.I would see this and maybe provide a few answers. I would rather hear from the S.I staff than people who, let's be honest, have very little knowledge of the workings of S.I and the game itself. 

Probably unlikely though and we'll most likely end up with arguing between the two sides with little point.

Edited by Cap'nRad

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The answer to the OP is very simple:

Because they make money anyway. There's not a single economical reason for which the CEO should decide to invest into significant improvements for the game. Zero.

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14 minutes ago, Cap'nRad said:

I was really hoping that someone from S.I would see this and maybe provide a few answers. I would rather hear from the S.I staff than people who, let's be honest, have very little knowledge of the workings of S.I and the game itself. 

Probably unlikely though and we'll most likely end up with arguing between the two sides with little point.

He said himself he was being rhetorical and half his questions are in a disparaging manner. Brocky might be one to pop in, but I suspect most staff would look at the way he's talking and not be inclined. After all it isnt their job to talk to some who demands that others boycott their work. In fact given that he wasn't waiting for answers anyway, not sure there is even much reason for the thread..

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yeah i get what your saying but i think the problem a lot of people have is that being the same me every year for about 5 years and yet we have to wait a few months after release to get it to a decent state. 

also this year does seem to me to be the least playable out the box in my opinion. the transfer market is reminiccent of fifa manager just too unrealsitic. and the ai seems to be a step back this year with the other teams not able to play the way they want. most flair managers get the sack like pep and poch.  i know they will get it right but i think we do have to understand why people grumble 

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2 minutes ago, jamessmith010101 said:

yeah i get what your saying but i think the problem a lot of people have is that being the same me every year for about 5 years and yet we have to wait a few months after release to get it to a decent state. 

also this year does seem to me to be the least playable out the box in my opinion. the transfer market is reminiccent of fifa manager just too unrealsitic. and the ai seems to be a step back this year with the other teams not able to play the way they want. most flair managers get the sack like pep and poch.  i know they will get it right but i think we do have to understand why people grumble 

It isn't "the same ME". It's be heavily updated each year. You can't just build a brand new one in one sitting. People might get frustrated with issues, we all do. It should never be an excuse for rudeness though

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yeah i get you there feedback should never be rude. all feedback is good negative or positive as long as the feedback is given in the correct way . rude feedback is just counter intuitive.

but it is the same me by the way it has been for about 5 years, si said this themselves. they just try and build onto the me eacxh time with different ai etc. jm enjoying playing the game this year tp be fair but the game seems a little easy as all the big teams are struggling and it seems the counter attacking sides are dominatiing too much. but we all know we havge to wait 3 ish months before we get the polished article and then its cool until oct nect yr then the excitement builds again for the next instalmnment and we go round in cycle again :)

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1 minute ago, jamessmith010101 said:

yeah i get you there feedback should never be rude. all feedback is good negative or positive as long as the feedback is given in the correct way . rude feedback is just counter intuitive.

but it is the same me by the way it has been for about 5 years, si said this themselves. they just try and build onto the me eacxh time with different ai etc. jm enjoying playing the game this year tp be fair but the game seems a little easy as all the big teams are struggling and it seems the counter attacking sides are dominatiing too much. but we all know we havge to wait 3 ish months before we get the polished article and then its cool until oct nect yr then the excitement builds again for the next instalmnment and we go round in cycle again :)

Its's the same ME in terms of not being rebuilt from the bottom up. Its not the same ME in terms of updates being applied to it. I think people are misreading what SI have said.

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Even FM13's ME wasn't new. It was however, heavily changed and things added such as collision avoidance.

Over the years after that, we've now seen arced runs and arced jumps being added (as an example) as well as a fairly big change to overall decision making etc. 

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1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

He said himself he was being rhetorical and half his questions are in a disparaging manner. Brocky might be one to pop in, but I suspect most staff would look at the way he's talking and not be inclined. After all it isnt their job to talk to some who demands that others boycott their work. In fact given that he wasn't waiting for answers anyway, not sure there is even much reason for the thread..

Yeah, as I suspected I doubt anyone from S.I would answer this, which is a shame as I would like to at least hear about their long term plans from a more official source. The problem is these types of threads always go the wrong way with random users arguing, when they could be more constructive if S.I answered instead.

Edited by Cap'nRad

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8 minutes ago, Cap'nRad said:

Yeah, as I suspected I doubt anyone from S.I would answer this, which is a shame as I would like to at least hear about their long term plans from a more official source. The problem is these types of threads always go the wrong way with random users arguing, when they could be more constructive if S.I answered instead.

That starts with the user. He set the tone of the thread. There's a reason why most SI staff don't engage jn GD 

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20 minutes ago, Cap'nRad said:

Yeah, as I suspected I doubt anyone from S.I would answer this, which is a shame as I would like to at least hear about their long term plans from a more official source. The problem is these types of threads always go the wrong way with random users arguing, when they could be more constructive if S.I answered instead.

 

To be fair a lot of the questions originally posed by the OP were either opinion based rather than factual, or overly accusatory. They were never going to get a response.

The rest were all questions where the views, experience and knowledge of other long term users would have been helpful. There are plenty here who have worked in the games industry, there are plenty who have been in-house or early beta testers who know how it works. There are lots of members of the community who know tons about tactics, ME and the A.I. because of their past conservations with SI, or consulting, or going above and beyond in their own games and experiments. You can see it in some of the responses about the development of the ME.

But the OP basically dismissed all of this with the framing of the entire thread.

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18 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

That starts with the user. He set the tone of the thread. There's a reason why most SI staff don't engage jn GD 

True, I wish he had approached it differently.

However S.I could build up a lot of goodwill and maybe calm down the more restless users if they answered these sort of threads regardless even though they don't have to. Not every time, but maybe once in a while. I hardly see these kind of query threads being answered by S.I, and although the mods are helpful in responding to these, I don't think they can provide as in depth or accurate a reply as S.I staff itself. I'm simply tired of these always devolving into arguments and then getting locked, maybe you mods are too, as a lot of the time you have to regulate said arguing.

And btw, with the way this forum is, I doubt the mods or the users would allow the S.I staff to be attacked which (I assume) is the reason they don't reply.

Edited by Cap'nRad

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1 minute ago, Cap'nRad said:

True, I wish he had approached it differently.

However S.I could build up a lot of goodwill and maybe calm down the more restless users if they answered these sort of threads regardless even though they don't have to. Not every time, but maybe once in a while. I hardly see these kind of query threads being answered by S.I, and although the mods are helpful in responding to these, I don't think they can provide as in depth or accurate a reply as S.I staff itself. And with the way this forum is, I doubt the mods or the users would allow the staff to be attacked which (I guess?) is the reason they don't reply.

We had that "Ask SI anything"-thread for a while where SI answered a lot of questions regarding the gameplay (not on development cycles and internal rutines, but rather on how to do things and why some things worked like this or that). I don't know where that went, it was a good read for a while at least. Many of the questions here would not be suitable for that though, since the ones here is bordering on bashing.

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4 minutes ago, Peljam said:

To be fair a lot of the questions originally posed by the OP were either opinion based rather than factual, or overly accusatory. They were never going to get a response.

This is why I think official responses are sometimes needed, because of the opinion based thinking that often runs in the forums. There's hardly any official communication so most posts will be of that nature. Unfortunately the accusatory nature of this one somewhat ruined the mood.

6 minutes ago, Peljam said:

The rest were all questions where the views, experience and knowledge of other long term users would have been helpful. There are plenty here who have worked in the games industry, there are plenty who have been in-house or early beta testers who know how it works. There are lots of members of the community who know tons about tactics, ME and the A.I. because of their past conservations with SI, or consulting, or going above and beyond in their own games and experiments. You can see it in some of the responses about the development of the ME.

But the OP basically dismissed all of this with the framing of the entire thread.

No one really knows who is who, which is why it is hard to hear anything without taking it with a huge grain of salt. It's only when you see those "S.I staff" or "Moderator" badges that you can at least be assured that the info is coming from a more official capacity. 

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7 minutes ago, XaW said:

We had that "Ask SI anything"-thread for a while where SI answered a lot of questions regarding the gameplay (not on development cycles and internal rutines, but rather on how to do things and why some things worked like this or that). I don't know where that went, it was a good read for a while at least. Many of the questions here would not be suitable for that though, since the ones here is bordering on bashing.

Yeah that was a nice thread. I wish it was pinned or came back each year or something, it was a nice way for easy communication and clarification.

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2 minutes ago, XaW said:

We had that "Ask SI anything"-thread for a while where SI answered a lot of questions regarding the gameplay (not on development cycles and internal rutines, but rather on how to do things and why some things worked like this or that). I don't know where that went, it was a good read for a while at least. Many of the questions here would not be suitable for that though, since the ones here is bordering on bashing.

It was a really good thread. But even then if you have a read through, people still used it to get their digs in because they knew SI staff were in there. I'd love to see more SI engagement. But the onus on that is very much on the users actually wanting to be constructive, because they’ve got enough work as it is without coming here to get bashed. 

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3 minutes ago, Cap'nRad said:

Yeah that was a nice thread. I wish it was pinned or came back each year or something, it was a nice way for easy communication and clarification.

It's still there. If you have a question to ask them, give it a go.

You'll notice that there was one user in particular who asked questions in a similar tone in that thread and it didn't get answered.

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10 minutes ago, Cap'nRad said:

This is why I think official responses are sometimes needed, because of the opinion based thinking that often runs in the forums. There's hardly any official communication so most posts will be of that nature. Unfortunately the accusatory nature of this one somewhat ruined the mood.

No one really knows who is who, which is why it is hard to hear anything without taking it with a huge grain of salt. It's only when you see those "S.I staff" or "Moderator" badges that you can at least be assured that the info is coming from a more official capacity. 

More official responses would be nice, I don't think any of us would be against that. But it's like you said the tone is always going to be an issue as there'll be users that rather than having questions will have assumptions and/or accusations. The more official responses seem to appear in feedback threads which aren't always the most friendly of places. The Ask thread was good.

I guess as a community the more we do to help each other and share/debate properly the better the atmosphere and the more likely official responses would be. If there are innaccuracies or conspiracy theories (scripting!) then they need challenging, and if people are spouting vitriolic opinons dressed up as 'All this is true and I speak for the masses' they need challenging.

In terms of who to trust I think it's case of using reason, logic and evidence first. Ignore who is saying it and focus on what has been said. If there's no evidence supporting it (maybe it's about something going on under the hood) then the focus can switch more onto who has said it. There are some names that pop up a lot and you can see on past posts where they have got their information from.

Edited by Peljam

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30 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

It's still there. If you have a question to ask them, give it a go.

You'll notice that there was one user in particular who asked questions in a similar tone in that thread and it didn't get answered.

Wouldn't mid having a read of this thread. Does anyone have a link to it please?

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58 minutes ago, Peljam said:

More official responses would be nice, I don't think any of us would be against that. But it's like you said the tone is always going to be an issue as there'll be users that rather than having questions will have assumptions and/or accusations. The more official responses seem to appear in feedback threads which aren't always the most friendly of places. The Ask thread was good.

I guess as a community the more we do to help each other and share/debate properly the better the atmosphere and the more likely official responses would be. If there are innaccuracies or conspiracy theories (scripting!) then they need challenging, and if people are spouting vitriolic opinons dressed up as 'All this is true and I speak for the masses' they need challenging.

In terms of who to trust I think it's case of using reason, logic and evidence first. Ignore who is saying it and focus on what has been said. If there's no evidence supporting it (maybe it's about something going on under the hood) then the focus can switch more onto who has said it. There are some names that pop up a lot and you can see on past posts where they have got their information from.

You're right about certain members being more informed. In the case of this thread, I was particularly interested in the question of S.I's long term vision for the series, which has been discussed often before, but never really confirmed by S.I. And as been seen before, knowledgeable users can be wrong about a lot of things so like I said before, the grain of salt still remains.

Edited by Cap'nRad

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Just now, Cap'nRad said:

You're right about certain members being more informed. In the case of this particular thread, I was particularly interested in the question of S.I's long term vision for the series, which has been discussed often before, knowledgeable users can be wrong about a lot of things so like I said before, the grain of salt still remains.

 

True, a more official SI road map would be welcome

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Why bother if they have you to buy it every year? That's your answer.

Edited by Romano338

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The biggest problem is this - FM cant be released every year. Game with database like this - simply there si no time for fix everything on time. We have much "weaker" database games in game world with releases every 2,3,4 years.

After final patch in march - game is usually playable. We have only 6 months to enjoy real experience. Its not enough. If they decide to release game every 2 years - we would get more complete game and SI can have more time to make new version.

About money - SI can find some way to get money from us - higher price or some yearly membership or something like that. Its not problem to pay for something - if youre satisfied.

 

 

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3 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

He said himself he was being rhetorical and half his questions are in a disparaging manner. Brocky might be one to pop in, but I suspect most staff would look at the way he's talking and not be inclined. After all it isnt their job to talk to some who demands that others boycott their work. In fact given that he wasn't waiting for answers anyway, not sure there is even much reason for the thread..

The thread title includes "questions to responsible persons". I don't see how he can (a) say (I'm paraphrasing) "but they are rhetorical questions", given that he defined the recipients and (b) expect an answer given the ill-informed and disparaging tone they were written in...

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